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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / July 2004Grand Cherokee Owners - Fight back!!
Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to expectations? More directly, did your Jeep Grand Cherokee suffer a premature rear axle bearing failure? Did you find your contacts with Chrysler Corporation to be unproductive in getting assistance to pay for the repair? I invite you to email your story, photos and receipts to http://grandcherokeedefects.blogspot.com All information will be turned over to a lawyer for possible class action status. All information will be kept strictly confidential. Stories and photos will be shared to attract more owners of defective Grand Cherokees. Check updates at http://grandcherokeedefects.blogspot.com Thank You > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > expectations? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thank You Hello Grumpy and group I visited the website and just sent an email detailing my experiences.' Good for you to take the time to get this started ! BTW. The email link from the blogspot webpage is wrong. It should read grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com and not grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com/ For those interested: I have posted here several times regarding this problem and had varying responses. The email I just sent to Grumpy reads like this: . . **************************************************************************** * Interesting. Just saw this in rec.jeep In a six month period I had the bearings replaced three times and the third time I had to get a new carrier, half shaft and posi clutch. This was all before the odometer had reached 150,000 Km. It cost me CDN $2400. (actually more including tax) The vehicle is a 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Orvis edition. It is presently for sale. I have all the receipts, but no pictures. By the way . . . grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com/ doesn't work. It should read like this . . . grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com **************************************************************************** ********** No problems with either of my wife's two Grand Cherokees. We had such a great experience together with very good reliability with our '99 that we traded it in on an '02, both with the superb 4.7L V8 engine. The 2002 is doing fine, as we expected it would. We've had great luck with all four Jeeps we have purchased. Jerry -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > > expectations? [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > responses. > The email I just sent to Grumpy reads like this: . . **************************************************************************** > * > Interesting. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com **************************************************************************** > ********** Sounds to me you should have found a new mechanic...3 times in 6 months leads me to believe the repair wasn't done correctly. Not unheard of to need new bearings at 90,000 miles. **************************************************************************** > * > Interesting. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com **************************************************************************** > ********** Yes, Matt. There's some truth to that. The third repair was done by another shop. /they did tell me that very few mechanics are able to set up the Dana 44s correctly particularly if they use the specs from Chrysler. Chrysler specs them too tight. This particular shop does a lot of these rear ends and they were very critical of them. > Sounds to me you should have found a new mechanic...3 times in 6 months > leads me to believe the repair wasn't done correctly. Not unheard of to need > new bearings at 90,000 miles. **************************************************************************** > > * > > Interesting. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > grandcherokeedefects@yahoo.com **************************************************************************** > > ********** actually jeep made all the rear axle techs go to a special 2 day class for the gear set up and anyone that has had it. does it no problem end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time > Yes, Matt. > There's some truth to that. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > **************************************************************************** > > > ********** > end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time Do you like to xplain your logic ???? How about fix it right the first time or you will be doing it for free the second time..... Thats better then sit on your lazy a.s, F*ck up again, and get your 8 hours anyway Johan > > end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Johan 8 hours, who are you kidding? The above slimeball has admitted he charges for 20 or more hour days on the flat rate system and goes home early every day to boot! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Mike Romain did pass the time by typing: >>> end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Thats better then sit on your lazy a.s, F*ck up again, and get your 8 >> hours anyway > 8 hours, who are you kidding? > > The above slimeball has admitted he charges for 20 or more hour days on > the flat rate system and goes home early every day to boot! The flat rate system is simply the easiest way to bill a customer. Service A costs $thismuch, rather than parts and actual time. Think of it this way, if you were paying the actual time of someone who can do the job quicker/better, your probably going to be paying a higher hourly salary as well. The faster you are, the better you are, the less you f.ck something up, the more you get paid. I see nothing wrong with that. Don't believe for one second if a mechanic screws up it isn't noticed by the shop forman. Say if body work costs $800 no matter where you go would you choose Chip Foose or Bubba? When in reality Foose is going to cost you $BIGbucks and Bubba kin whomp dat dent out wit a hammah gonna cost you $50 youm'betcha. Ok.. bad analogy, but I'm only on my fist cup of coffee and second cinnamon bun. ::) Try this.. Your playing pool. Would you rather pay 50c per game or 10$ per hour. If you suck at playing pool and take forever to sink any balls, 50c isn't that bad. But if your good the hourly rate is better. Ok.. so the second cup of coffee doesn't help. I'm gone.. time to mow the lawn.  SignatureDougW mechanic > screws up it isn't noticed by the shop forman. Doug, I recently got into the business where I have three different shops lifting trucks and Jeeps, installing accessories, and adding big tires and wheels. Believe me, I've discovered that the shop foreman doesn't catch half the stuff the mechanic screws up... my customers and I do though. Jerry -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ Jerry Bransford did pass the time by typing: > mechanic >> screws up it isn't noticed by the shop forman. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wheels. Believe me, I've discovered that the shop foreman doesn't catch > half the stuff the mechanic screws up... my customers and I do though. Should have said is "eventually" noticed.. I presume the foreman gets notified about rework or customer problems? Good luck with your buisness. SignatureDougW "Geezer OffRoad!" :-) Sounds like you're living my dream... > mechanic > > screws up it isn't noticed by the shop forman. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > See the Geezer Jeep at > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ Heh, I have discovered that the dream and reality are different Matt. :) Doug, yes the shop foreman eventually finds out about most of the bad work but not all. However, I too feel that the flat rate system encourages the mechanic to hurry too much in an effort to make more money for both himself and his shop. Trying to do a job in 3 hours that the flat rate book say should take 6 hours so he can make more $$$ is just asking for shoddy work if the mechanic is less than totally conscientious... as in tending to think "that's good enough" when he hasn't really checked everything all that closely. Jerry -- Jerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > "Geezer OffRoad!" :-) Sounds like you're living my dream... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ It usually is....of course, we all know the real reason why you opened an off-road business...to get parts at cost... ;-) > Heh, I have discovered that the dream and reality are different Matt. :) > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ we mechanics need your help to change the system! it is exactly like jerry describes and thats were the problem lies and you the customers loses when i worked in a dealer that paid me hourly, no flat rate i would only have 2 -3 comebacs a year and all the cars went out fixed no matter what! now i'm flat rate and could care less i,m forced to work fast and turn hours regardless of the satisfaction of you the customer and my boss has warned me turn hours or get fired! i have to work within the system i'm given help change the system > Heh, I have discovered that the dream and reality are different Matt. :) > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > we mechanics need your help to change the system! it is exactly like jerry > describes and thats were the problem lies and you the customers loses [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > turn hours or get fired! i have to work within the system i'm given > help change the system You dont have to change the system, just your additute about having pride in your work instead being a gravy sucking pig. I "only" flag 10-12 hours a day and make a good living out off it and hardly have any comebacks. johan > > end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Johan Do you know what flat rate means? It means you'll get paid the same even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to fix it right, so where's the incentive? Signature____________________ Remove "X" from email address to reply. A clearer definition of flat rate: If the rate manual gives four hours to do a particular job, for an arbitrary figure. You take eight hours. You get paid for four hours, and if it comes back for defective workmanship, not a part failure in the allotted warranty time. Guess what? you fix it for free! So in essence, a flat rate technician is most likely the technician you want working on your car! Employers are very leery about putting shoddy or inexperienced technicians or butchers on flat rate! The End. Refinish King > > > end the flat rate pay system and everyone will have fixed cars first time > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to > fix it right, so where's the incentive? And using the same thought, if it is an hourly rate you will still fix it for free since you screwed it up the first time. But then with the flat rate, if you charge for 4 hours and only take 2 hours, then you are ahead of the game. Unless, if doing it hourly, you lie and say it took longer. But doing this you will run out of customers fast. Flat rate are charged for a reason. Very few people want to pay by the hour. You could make a 2 hour job last for days. > A clearer definition of flat rate: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to > > fix it right, so where's the incentive? Flat rate books were written for a reason: to give technicians an estimated time that it would require to do the job. If a technician is proficient, and beats it. Should he be penalized? The customer asks how much? The customer is told 4 hours at $50.00. If it takes 10 hours, the customer gets to slide, but if the job goes well. The business owner gets dorked? Where's the incentive to be in business? You must be a trolling customer, who wants it all, a guarantee that he will get it cheap, and none of the things that can go wrong on the job. Flat rate, you win some and lose some! Refinish King > And using the same thought, if it is an hourly rate you will still fix it > for free since you screwed it up the first time. But then with the flat [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to > > > fix it right, so where's the incentive? Who the hell are you calling a trolling customer? I am totally for the flat rate. I was trying to explain WHY they use the flat rate over an hourly rate. Too many customers were screwed by dishonest mechanics who would fix a car in 2 hours and said it took 4 hours. The flat rate stopped this. And even the flat rate is over estimated but it works. When I took a vehicle in for work, I was charged the flat rate for each item done. They charged me the flat rate for the catalytic converter. Then added in the flat rate for the brakes. Total time was about 6 hours but they were done in 2. So the mechanic made out. I have no problem with that. They did a good job. But before the flat rate, when I had work done, they would end up keeping it over night and charge me for 10 hours labor for something that I could have done myself in 3 hours. So no, I have nothing against the flat rate since I am told up front what it is going to cost me. > Flat rate books were written for a reason: > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > > > even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to > > > > fix it right, so where's the incentive? Then you were a victim: I ran an honest shop, and even cut time off of flat rate for seniors and people of less privilege. So before you come out of the gate asking me who the hell I think I am? I'm an honest shop operator, nothing like the ones who took advantage of you. I refuse to be compared to the grease monkey image you speak of, when I took time to help the local action groups and churches with the poor that needed their cars fixed, in order to find jobs, I treated customers fairly and paid for training for my employees so they would "Do the job right the first time" plus quicker! Maybe you got screwed, but not by me! So if you have a bone to pick, go to the source that stuck it to you, not the one who gave you an accurate description. With kind regards, Refinish King > Who the hell are you calling a trolling customer? I am totally for the flat > rate. I was trying to explain WHY they use the flat rate over an hourly [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > to > > > > > fix it right, so where's the incentive? You didn't charge every customer the same rate? That's illegal, isn't it? > Then you were a victim: > [quoted text clipped - 186 lines] >> >>>>>>fix it right, so where's the incentive? What ever the book said: times my labor rate! To charge different customers, a different labor rate is illegal. Unless you set up an account with a large fleet or a used car dealer. How can you charge one customer four hours to do a heater core, and another four hours to do brakes? Are you on crack? Refinish King > You didn't charge every customer the same rate? That's illegal, isn't it? > [quoted text clipped - 188 lines] > >> > >>>>>>fix it right, so where's the incentive? > Who the hell are you calling a trolling customer? I am totally for the flat > rate. I was trying to explain WHY they use the flat rate over an hourly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > done myself in 3 hours. So no, I have nothing against the flat rate since I > am told up front what it is going to cost me. I don't know what magical book they showed you but all the flat rate manuals I have read are HEAVILY in the customer's favor. .2 hours to change brake pads, christ it takes that long to get it on the lift. Signature____________________ Remove "X" from email address to reply. Not to mention the sintered wheel nuts and studs: Which they recommend we don't lubricate, and Anti-Seize has been proven time and time again to not attract dust! Refinish King > > Who the hell are you calling a trolling customer? I am totally for the flat > > rate. I was trying to explain WHY they use the flat rate over an hourly [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > manuals I have read are HEAVILY in the customer's favor. .2 hours to > change brake pads, christ it takes that long to get it on the lift. > A clearer definition of flat rate: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Refinish King Jeeps don't start to fall apart until the day after the warranty expires. Signature____________________ Remove "X" from email address to reply. LOL If they last till the warranty expires you mean? Refinish King PS I managed a Dodge/Chrysler/jeep body shop and helped the inept service manager in service. So I know first hand of the Dakota 4Wd differential failures that Mopar wouldn't cover, and all of their wonderful business philosophies. Sincerely, Refinish King > > A clearer definition of flat rate: > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Jeeps don't start to fall apart until the day after the warranty > expires. when was the last time you went into a dealer aftermarket maybe but dealers is a whole different thing > A clearer definition of flat rate: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > ____________________ > > Remove "X" from email address to reply. I worked at a dealer: I averaged $1800.00 a week on warrantee work only! Refinish King > when was the last time you went into a dealer aftermarket maybe but dealers > is a whole different thing [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > > ____________________ > > > Remove "X" from email address to reply. you won't now the germs make you take pictures of the failed parts esp. body work > I worked at a dealer: > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > > ____________________ > > > > Remove "X" from email address to reply. Oh, now I remember, you are too freakin busy billing for 20 hour days at flat rate to actually fix anything! I do remember you posting the above fact. And then some folks wonder why we all think dealer 'mechanics' are slimy rip off artists. LOL! You make the point perfectly! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > actually jeep made all the rear axle techs go to a special 2 day class for the > gear set up and anyone that has had it. does it no problem [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > **************************************************************************** > > > > ********** Thank you for pointing out the oversight!! God Bless. Save your hard earned cash - Don't buy Jeep > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > expectations? It is a Chrysler product, what do you mean expectations. Living under a rock the last 20 years I own a jeep wrangler and I know it work every now and then Want a boring reliable car ???? buy a Honda or toyota like my 90 year old grandpa has and stop whining ....... > > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > > expectations? > > It is a Chrysler product, what do you mean expectations. * - Are you slamming Chrysler or praising them ? > Living under a rock the last 20 years * - Now I gotta tell you, I'm real sorry to hear that but hopefully things will improve soon. > I own a jeep wrangler and I know it work every now and then * - Yes, its nice when our cars work occasionally. That's one of the main reasons I buy one actually. > Want a boring reliable car ???? buy a Honda or toyota like my 90 year > old grandpa has and stop whining ....... I'm sorry, this is rec.auto.jeep, perhaps you'd have better luck selling your grandpa's toyota on another newsgroup. > * - Are you slamming Chrysler or praising them ? Both >>Living under a rock the last 20 years Forgot the ????? Meaning ,it is a chrysler, not the most reliable car. You either buy, drive and repair them when they break down( like me ) or sell it and buy something else more reliable > * - Now I gotta tell you, I'm real sorry to hear that but hopefully things > will improve soon. I am fine, thanks for asking, howbout yourself..... >>I own a jeep wrangler and I know it work every now and then should be NEED work every now and then > * - Yes, its nice when our cars work occasionally. That's one of the main > reasons I buy one actually. <occasionally >, As long as you keep that in mind, those repairs wont come as a surprise and you dont have to cry to us about it >>Want a boring reliable car ???? buy a Honda or toyota like my 90 year >>old grandpa has and stop whining ....... > > I'm sorry, this is rec.auto.jeep, perhaps you'd have better luck selling > your grandpa's toyota on another newsgroup. OK , let me also explain the last remark since you also didnt get that 1 It states LIKE my grandpa's car , not BUY my grandpa's car. Let use these groups to help each other with technical problems, not to cry and bitch all the time. You bought a CAR , not a $25000 swiss precision watch. Cars break down.... some more then others, fix em and move on or sell it and buy something else. AND AGAIN NO !!!! MY GRANDPA'S CAR IS NOT FOR SALE !!!!! How much is your Grandpa looking to get for his car? : > * - Are you slamming Chrysler or praising them ? : [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] : : AND AGAIN NO !!!! MY GRANDPA'S CAR IS NOT FOR SALE !!!!! He doesnt look that much anymore, almost blind, his dog does most of his driving for him......... Johan > How much is your Grandpa looking to get for his car? > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > : > : AND AGAIN NO !!!! MY GRANDPA'S CAR IS NOT FOR SALE !!!!! AND NO !!!!!!! THE DOG IS NOT FOR SALE EITHER........ > He doesnt look that much anymore, almost blind, his dog does most of his > driving for him......... > > Johan > >> How much is your Grandpa looking to get for his car? Actually, my brother-in-law just had to get new bearings in the rear of his JGC at 100,000 miles. I thought that was unusual. >> * - Are you slamming Chrysler or praising them ? > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > AND AGAIN NO !!!! MY GRANDPA'S CAR IS NOT FOR SALE !!!!! >> Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to >> expectations? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I own a jeep wrangler and I know it work every now and then Offcourse that should read: I own a jeep wrangler and I know it NEEDS work every now and then > Want a boring reliable car ???? buy a Honda or toyota like my 90 year > old grandpa has and stop whining ....... I hate to ask stupid questions, but what was that vehicle used for, any towing, heavy loads? Also, how often was the final drive oil checked and changed on that axle? At 90k miles it should have been changed at least three times. Unfortunately what I see with a trained eye is the result of oil contamination and breakdown. > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > expectations? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thank You I have had 4 Cherokees (85, 87, 88 & 91) and 1 Grand Cherokee (95) all well over 100K miles and never had a diff bearing problem. The 91 Cherokee has 180K miles and still runs great. These all had Dana 30 &35 axles though. Have changed the diff gear lube every 30K miles too. Greg > I hate to ask stupid questions, but what was that vehicle used for, any > towing, heavy loads? Also, how often was the final drive oil checked and [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > Thank You > I hate to ask stupid questions, but what was that vehicle used for, any > towing, heavy loads? Also, how often was the final drive oil checked and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Unfortunately what I see with a trained eye is the result of oil > contamination and breakdown. My brother-in-laws's was never used for towing or has ever been off-road. I doubt the oil was ever changed in the rear, but *most* people never change the diff. oil and still don't experience rear end bearing problems. > > I hate to ask stupid questions, but what was that vehicle used for, any > > towing, heavy loads? Also, how often was the final drive oil checked and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > people never change the diff. oil and still don't experience rear end > bearing problems. So if I never change my engine oil or xmsn fluid or coolant I should not experience engine or xmsn problems either. Most conscientious owners change the lubricants per the maintenance schedule or close to it. If you don't...don't blame the manufacturer for poor quality. I have had 5 Jeeps all well over 100K without a single differential problem. > > > I hate to ask stupid questions, but what was that vehicle used for, any > > > towing, heavy loads? Also, how often was the final drive oil checked and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > a single differential problem. That was definitly caused by lubricant breakdown & reusltant metal contamination. My hunch is it the vehicle was overloaded or got overstressed towing something beyong its capacity. The giveaway is the scoring on the outer axle bearings & the axle shafts. FWIW, the Grand Cherokee factory maintenance schedule calls for 12k mile differential fluid changes if it's used for towing & heavy loads (i.e., severe duty). It also calls for an 80w-140 lubricant in the rear axle in those cases. That thing had to be growlng like a pack of mad dogs for a long time, too. Would have paid to look into it earlier. a whine noise in the rear axle does not MEAN a axle failure wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whiner go home > Are you the owner of a Jeep Grand Cherokee that did not live up to > expectations? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thank You I didn't notice a reference here to whining noises. But if a whining noise from the rear axle should be ignored by the driver, what kind of noise should he pay attention to ? > a whine noise in the rear axle does not MEAN a axle failure > wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whiner go home [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Thank You If you hear a whine noise from your rear axel you BETTER get it fixed. Or you might just find yourself sitting along the road one day. Any noise from the rear axel is a major problem. You MUST be another one of those dumb trolls. > a whine noise in the rear axle does not MEAN a axle failure > wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whiner go home [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Thank You Spoken like a true dealer tech! LOL! Man you 'sure' make mechanics look bad and make the point of the stereotype sleaze ball rip off dealer mechanic with about every post you make. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > a whine noise in the rear axle does not MEAN a axle failure > wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whiner go home [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Thank You > Spoken like a true dealer tech! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > stereotype sleaze ball rip off dealer mechanic with about every post you > make. Hmmmmm..... I flag an average of 10/12 hours a day , does that make me a "sleaze ball rip off dealer mechanic" or does that mean I have more experience in most jobs and work fast ???? A brake job pays 2 hours an axle so if you have a car with oilchange front rear brakes and lets say 4 tires you will get 2+2+1.7+0.3= 6 hours and do it in 3 /3.5 hours you will make money and that doesnt mean youre ripping off the customer because he will pay $199 an axle for a brake job, $25 for mounting/balance tires + tires and $19.95 for the oilchange. Yeah, DIAGNOSE a electrical or driveability problem they pays 1 hour wich is "FREE" at pepboys etc, but remember they dont diagnose, they pull codes trow parts at it and then send it to the dealer because it didnt fix it. Just because the PCM give you a 02 sensor lean code doesnt mean it needs O2 sensors. Unfortunaly some off those Pepboy mechanics end up at the dealer and then offcourse some off those Pepboy mechanics really know what they are doing and shouldnt be working there. And then there is the labor rate, $108 an hour where I work, Please dont think a tech still get 40/50% of the labor rate , those days are long gone $10/15 if youre a luby $15/23 when your a cert tech and $23/30 when youre a master tech so somebody is pocketing $70-$80 an hour and its not the techs :-( Just my 2c Anyways Happy 4th Johan > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > Spoken like a true dealer tech! > > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Johan I had a Happy 1st of July up here in Canada off bush running in a friend's TJ thanks, happy 4th to you. It is unfortunate how that system opens up so much abuse isn't it. If it was a perfect world and 'mechanics' all knew what they were doing and most important had pride in their work the flat rate works out good for everyone. In some 'other' worlds you get sleaze balls that go for the numbers only and are bad enough that the dealers they work for are even forced under because of the bad rep they give the shop. In worse cases, which happens far far too often, there is enough warranty work to keep the damn dealer with the sleaze balls still going because 'no' one will come back when the warranty is up because they get told things like, "a whine noise in the rear axle does not MEAN a axle failure wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whiner go home." It is sure nice when you can find a straight up honest and 'good' mechanic, but they are rare! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > It is sure nice when you can find a straight up honest and 'good' > mechanic, but they are rare! And worth a few bucks extra after waiting for an appointment! Friend of mine opened a garage to help support his stock car "hobby" several years back. Now, it takes a week to get into a bay in the shop and he tells you right up front that he will cost you more than some places because he does the job the way he thinks it needs to be done or he doesn't do it at all. Funny thing is, it's far more common to hear this guy tell a customer that he really doesn't need the extra work than it is to hear him try to sell something on top of the actual repair. Maybe that's why every couple of years he adds another bay (and doesn't have time for stock car racing anymore). His is the only shop that puts a wrench on my vehicles unless he sends me to a specialty shop HE recommends. SignatureWill Honea hmm lets see 108 a hour at 40 hours a week comes to 4320.00 a week now deduct 24 a hour the tech makes turning 40 hrs thats 960.00 weeks equals ======== $3360.00 dealer takes and now you can see what kind or money is taken out of your pockets now times that by 7 techs and you get $23.520.00 for a week and thats at 40 hrs now the dealer wants you to turn 50 to 60 hr. and i'll let you do the math come to the end of the month it comes to 94,040.00 now tell me who is the rip-off artist now these figures do not include what the crafty service write comes up with and add the chemical fee, the deposal fee for oil. which is usually taken by a recycler for free, or the dealer gets paid a few bucs for mike u really need to get it! what you think you see going on is really 180 degrees of what actually does occur and why > > Spoken like a true dealer tech! > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's $400 for a brake job? Wow. If it wasn't for all that overhead, you could do one brake job and then knock off for the day. How do people afford that? > > Spoken like a true dealer tech! > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > ...A brake job pays 2 hours an axle so if you have a car with oilchange > > front rear brakes and lets say 4 tires you will get 2+2+1.7+0.3= 6 hours > > and do it in 3 /3.5 hours you will make money and that doesnt mean > > youre ripping off the customer because he will pay $199 an axle for a > > brake job > $400 for a brake job? Wow. If it wasn't for all that overhead, you could do > one brake job and then knock off for the day. How do people afford that? Depends on what's included with the brake job. Is it just new pads? Is it new pads plus turning rotors? Is it 4 new rotors and 8 new pads? If the latter, then $400 might be a reasonable price for a 4-wheel brake job. I just recently did the brakes on my daughter's Mercury Mystique - new rotors/new pads (front), new drums/new shoes (rear) - good quality parts - nothing exotic, but not low end either, and the parts alone were right at $300. Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") Buy a chevy bitches and stop complainin' HAHA SignatureBignBlackXXX That's all I drive: I just had to slap some reality into the Mopar bitches heads! Refinish King > Buy a chevy bitches and stop complainin' HAHA |
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