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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / July 2004Recommendations for very small nible 4x4 chase vehicle...
I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range... I am looking for an in-expensive alternative to something similar to a Polaris Ranger. I want a small light reliable chase type vehicle for trail riding in Baja, Mexico. I have concluded that a Suzuki Sam may just be the vehicle. Are there any others that I am overlooking? The wagon will follow groups of a dozen bikes/quads on day trips of about 100 miles in Baja. We have one polaris Ranger that does a fantastic job, but at 8-9K new this is out of my price range. I have concluded that a used suzuki may do most all the terrain a Ranger/similar wagon will do at a third of the cost. Having said that: I would like a recommendation on the best approach. My instinct is to buy a used late 80s stock model and apply the basic recommendations on the FAQ section here at off-road.com (tires/lockers + general maintenace hoses/belts etcc...) I have noticed some used suzukis' lifted with a variety of upgrades, (axles/lift kits/etc..) Not being able to tell anything about these components upon inspection, should I avoid them or try to work them into the picture through more research etc... Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance... > I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or > compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance... I may be prejudiced, but I would suggest the late '80's Samurai ('88~89) as a "can't go wrong" choice (I did!). There ARE other outfitters, but I went with the modifications to the Sami by Petroworks <http://petroworks.com/>. Several lift kit approaches are available. Mine (the most conservative) uses the same springs and moves them OVER the axles for about a 4 1/2" lift. For more articulation the front axle can be fitted with a rear spring (called "Missing Link"), or for even MORE articulation, Jeep CJ springs can be installed. Each 'lift' approach will require mods to the shocks and brake lines, and you will CERTAINLY want to add some 31" tires after. Gary's gear set for the transfer case is a MUST. He designed the gears and the same factory that built the transfer cases for Suzuki, makes the gears for Gary. With the big tires you may never be able to use 5th gear again UNLESS you install the gears. In the next month or so, I'll be going for the Side Kick 1600 cc 16 valve engine. The 1300 cc engine is fine for around town and great for off road crawling, but I'm struggling over long hills on the freeways, sometimes to 50 mph in 3rd gear. I took a ride in a rig setup with the 1600/16v engine and it will surely EXCEED my needs (it ran like a damn hot rod). Hope that helps,  Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= hey " Spanky " don't waste yer' bling on a 1.6L Boat anchor......a SUMO II 1.3L from AAPA will run the pants off any 1.6L out there Get some 6 to 1's and then you can run down the road at 70 - 90 mph like the rest of us ........lol The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important > hey " Spanky " don't waste yer' bling on a 1.6L Boat anchor......a SUMO > II 1.3L from AAPA will run the pants off any 1.6L out there [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " > if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important ================================= Hey 'webtv', that 4 cyl 1.6L/16v sidekick in the Sami will hang with ANY 6cyl Jeep! Don't kid yourself. It will kill the 4cyl jeeps, but the 8cyl Jeeps will out run it. People have reported 110 mph with this setup, which is WAAAY faster than I'd want to go in the Sami ;-) The 1.3L that I'm running will NOT outrun much on the freeways. Hills of any size on the freeway can make me drop to 3rd and go to 5500~6000 rpm to stay above 50mph. The 1.6L/16v motor can do the same hill in 5th at 80mph. Believe it (or don't), Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= there are 175 Zuks in our club .....1.6L 16 valve F.I.,1.6L 8 valve F.I. and Carb ,1.3L 8 Valve Weber/stock carb/F.I. 22R,V-6 4.3 Vortec, 400 Smallblock Chevys, 1.3L TURBO,1.3L Supercharged........Dude we R on the cutting edge of Zukin' I put 11,000 miles on last year alone off-road......and you did how many? do you know what SUMO motor even is? Ask Gary (Petro) about an AAPA SUMO II motor his SUPERCHARGED 1.3L Zuk can't beat one.... nor can any 1.6L. anytime yer in AZ drop me line and we will show ya' I have not run a 2.0L Sammi yet.... I can SPANK a 4.0 HEEP anyday.....flat ground or a hill OPEN CHALLENGE: my 1.3L SUMO II naturally aspirated Samurai on 32's..........against ANY 1.6L 16 valve/8 valve Carb of F.I. on 32's (Kick/Tracker or Samurai) we will race from the Bottom of sunset Point straight up I-17 to th top of the hill Or in Sand/Cinders Belive it I'll show ya' : ) The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important Hey there (read on below ... ) ================================= > there are 175 Zuks in our club .....1.6L 16 valve F.I.,1.6L 8 valve F.I. > and Carb ,1.3L 8 Valve Weber/stock carb/F.I. 22R,V-6 4.3 Vortec, 400 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > do you know what SUMO motor even is? ================================= Apparently not. ================================= > Ask Gary (Petro) about an AAPA SUMO II motor his SUPERCHARGED 1.3L Zuk > can't beat one.... ================================= Will do tomorrow. ================================= > nor can any 1.6L. anytime yer in AZ drop me line and we will show ya' ================================= Sounds like it could be educational. I've done 2 trips to AZ in the past 4 weeks. I'm sure to be there again soon. (I want to spend some tome in the Chiracahuas, the Huachucas, and surrounding areas in a couple more weeks.) ================================= > I have not run a 2.0L Sammi yet.... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Or in Sand/Cinders > Belive it I'll show ya' : ) ================================= Whoa down ;-) Testosterone alert! It wouldn't take much to win a race against me, speed's not my game. Do you know the story about the old bull and the young bull? ;-) ================================= > The Dirt Weasel > "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " > if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important ================================= Perhaps the fellow who started this thread should look into your SUMO setup. As a 'chase vehicle' maybe cutting edge speed would be important. I just want to be able to navigate the freeways as comfortably as I'm currently getting around on the trails. Be Well, Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= When ya' come to AZ. do ya' bring yer Zuk? I'm up here in the Bradshaws......between Mayer and Crown King........show up on the second Sunday of the month and Ya' can come on a club run with "The Zuks of Arizona" largest Zuk club in the USA Show up some other time and we can play around in the Bradshaws..... R U Spooled/locked on both ends? I hope ya' know I was only givin' ya' a hard time about the 1.6L swap "To each his own" We R just real proud of our SUMO motors? The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important > When ya' come to AZ. do ya' bring yer Zuk? ================================= Yeahbut only as a toad. I pulled it to Tucson last month behind my Astro AWD, but the Astro seemed a little under powered on the long grades. Coming out of El Centro at 109°F I had to gear down to 2nd and hold it to 50 mph over the grade to keep from overheating. On it's own, the Astro can pull the grade at 75 mph with the AC on high ... does NOT get hot. ================================= > I'm up here in the Bradshaws......between Mayer and Crown > King..... ================================= Real interesting country in those parts. ================================= >..show up on the second Sunday of the month and Ya' can come > on a club run with "The Zuks of Arizona" largest Zuk club in the USA > Show up some other time and we can play around in the Bradshaws..... > R U Spooled/locked on both ends? ================================= Locked in the front. Stock in the rear. ================================= > I hope ya' know I was only givin' ya' a hard time about the 1.6L swap > "To each his own" > We R just real proud of our SUMO motors? > > The Dirt Weasel ================================= No problem here. I'm interested to learn more about this SUMO setup, but I'm pretty sure the 1.6L/16v/FI setup will work for me. I'll be dropping you a line soon, as a buddy and I are planning an excursion generally in your direction in a few weeks. He's got a new Ford F350 crew cab with a 6L Power Stroke (Norstar?) diesel. The Zuk will come along as a toad. Seeya, Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= Hey Jack...... R U runnin' a stock carb ? what T-case gears ?4:16's 4:89's? If U R runnin' a stock carb have U Modified the Vac. line to the Secondarys ? it will give ya' more power on the Hills........ The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important Hello (again ... ) ================================= > Hey Jack...... R U runnin' a stock carb ? what T-case gears ?4:16's > 4:89's? ================================= I couldn't truly say for sure. It is Gary's G.R.S. II case. I looks by his description that it's (3.72:1). Does that sound right to you? ================================= > If U R runnin' a stock carb have U Modified the Vac. line to the > Secondarys ? it will give ya' more power on the Hills....... ================================= Sounds like we need to talk. To answer the above: YES the whole engine is stock. No modified vacuum to the secondaries. Is there a resource that you can point me to to show me what you mean? ================================= > The Dirt Weasel ================================= Signing off for this evening. Later then, Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= GRS II = 4.89 to 1 ...the 3.727 is your axle ratio SUMO T-case is 6.129 to 1 EZ mod to the carb .......lookin'at the drivers side of the carb U will C a vac. line with a white/orange plastic thingus' in the middle.....yank the whole thing off and replace it with a straight vac. line.........now the secondarys on the carb will open when your foot passes the half way point on the pedal........not "when they feel like it" you will lose 1-2mpg save the piece U will need it to pass yer' "Smog Check" The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important > GRS II = 4.89 to 1 ...the 3.727 is your axle ratio > SUMO T-case is 6.129 to 1 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The Dirt Weasel ================================= Thanks. I'll give it a try. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are comparing the performance as 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they do all these mods, I would just get the Jeep..... A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go damn near anywhere. The 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing low end torque. It also has a 'bunch' more room for parts if you are the chase vehicle. Just my $0.02, Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > I am looking for some recommendations on a suzuki samarui or > compareables... Something in the 2-3K used price range... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance... Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a chase mule! We will use it to follow some bikes/quad on day rides... As I stated in the OP, the target is something like a Yamaha Rhino or Polaris Ranger. Average speeds will be in the 30 mph range. I see your point with a Jeep, but a jeep is going to be more than I believe I am willing to commit too. I won't be trying to modify a samurai to compete with Jeep,... more just to keep up with a rhino/range, and perhaps just haul around some stuff and the occasional burnt out kid. > Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are comparing the performance as > 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they do all these mods, I [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance... Hello (and read on below ... ) ================================= > Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not > a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a > chase mule! We will use it to follow some bikes/quad on day rides... > As I stated in the OP, the target is something like a Yamaha Rhino or > Polaris Ranger. Average speeds will be in the 30 mph range. ================================= Sounds like the Sami's strong suit to me. In fact, you might be fine right out of the box with NO mods. Depending on your trails, a skid plate and pumpkin guards might be a good idea. If you haven't done so already, try calling the guys at Petroworks. They won't BS you. ================================= > I see your point with a Jeep, but a jeep is going to be more than I > believe I am willing to commit too. I won't be trying to modify a > samurai to compete with Jeep,... more just to keep up with a > rhino/range, and perhaps just haul around some stuff and the > occasional burnt out kid. > <SNIP> Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= I more or less thought so. The 'chase' vehicle is the parts, water and recovery rig usually. A Sami would be a good choice, so would any engine version of Jeep. I have wheeled with many Jeep 4 bangers and never realized they had the smaller engine. They have the gearing to make up any difference off road, they just lack some power for high speed on the highway. They are worth looking at if you come across one. Mike > Let me add a little clarification when I say a "chase" vehicle... Not > a chaser in a racing situation where it has to go fast, more like a [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > > > > > Any other info would be greatly apprciated! Thanks in advance... You R not really tryin to say that a $3,500 CJ5-7 wll out wheel a Zuk.........any time yer' ready we R not talkin' Trail runnin'..........I'm talkin about REAL Wheelin' Example.......FIREBIRD ....when the Boyz from "4wheel drive and Sport ute" Mag were here last year My club took them wheelin' in thereHighly Modded HEEP and they had a Good Time until they BROKE an axle tryin to follow a Zuk line : ) and then there is the Film/Pics/Video of me pullin' a RUBICON ( "the most capable HEEP ever") 5 times in one day 3 times out of the sand and twice in the Rock Garden on Trail 42........How much is one of those things? BTW he SOLD it and bought a Zuk The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important Stocker to stocker it would be a good match up wouldn't it? Built up don't count, anything can be built to go certain places. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > You R not really tryin to say that a $3,500 CJ5-7 wll out wheel a > Zuk.........any time yer' ready [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " > if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important > Stocker to stocker it would be a good match up wouldn't it? > > Built up don't count, <SNIP> ================================= But where's the fun in that? ;-) ================================= > Mike > <SNIP> Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= ALMOST?....... my Zuk will out-run any HEEP (4-6cyl) and then I will take ya' out here in my yard ( I have my OWN rock course) so when Ya' break the HEEP it aint far to the Shop....LOL The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important My CJ7 with it's stock 258 straight 6 and stock carb will pull out to 55 mph in 2nd turning 4400 rpm. 3rd pulls to over 80 mph fast, 4th will go way over 100 and I don't 'want' to find out how fast 5th will go. Off road I can pull at 2 kph or just over 1 mph up pretty much anything. She will not stall. I guess I could use a lower 1st, but it works ok for where I drive her. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > ALMOST?....... my Zuk will out-run any HEEP (4-6cyl) and then I will > take ya' out here in my yard ( I have my OWN rock course) so when Ya' [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " > if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important 4,400 RPM..........thats cruisin' RPM 4 me my motor Redlines at 8,200 RPM .........: ) The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important My red line is 4500. I have almost all my torque on the wheels by 1000 rpm and she will just purr at 400 rpm on a pit wall climb. It will dig my muds in if I get too steep, it won't stall out. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > 4,400 RPM..........thats cruisin' RPM 4 me my motor Redlines at 8,200 > RPM .........: ) > > The Dirt Weasel > "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " > if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important with my 6 to 1 T- case in Lo in 1st gear ........my Zuk speed is 25 Meters per minute........in 5th at 7,500 RPM.......7 MPH.........She is like a Dozer Sooo Slow CJ to Zuk Cost 5" of lift.... Zuk = $8.00 CJ = $499.00 - $799.00 4 to 1 T-case Zuk = $400.00 CJ = $1500.00 6 to 1 T-case Zuk = $ 600.00 CJ = Don't make one 8 to 1 T-case Zuk = $900.00 CJ = Don't make one Rear Axle lock-up Zuk = $90.00 mini spool CJ = $239.00 Front axle lock-up Zuk = $188.00 CJ = $239.00 Ya' C where I'm goin' with this? : ) The Dirt Weasel "JEEP..........It's whats fer' Dinner".....".Here Jeeper Jeeper " if it takes more than 3 bolts .......... it's important Mike Romain wrote: > Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are > comparing the performance as > 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they > do all these mods, I > would just get the Jeep..... ================================= Mike, You really should read more carefully. Nobody on this thread (except you) said anything about 'almost' keeping up with the jeep. The Dirt Weasel has suggested his 1.3L SUMO rig will blow the jeep away. If you look at the comparisons of 'stock' CJ7 and these Sami's, many factors (e.g. ground clearance), it is the Jeep that will be found lacking. You are paying a huge penalty in weight (not to mention your wallet). ================================= > A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go > damn near anywhere. The > 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing > low end torque. ================================= I don't think low end torque is a problem in the Sami's. Even my wimpy little stock 1.3L has plenty. It's just lacking the performance I want on the highway. ================================= > It also has a 'bunch' more room for parts if you > are the chase vehicle. > Just my $0.02, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > <SNIP> ================================= You may have a point about the extra room aspect. I'd be interested in a quantification, but I don't believe it will be an increase of more that a few percentage points. However, if that's important, it should not be ignored. Be Well, Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= |
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