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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / December 2004Auto Digital Tire Pressure Gauge Survey
Dear all newsgroup reader, I am trying to do a survey on driver's willingness of purchasing a Digital Tire Pressure Gauge, to ensure driving safety. Please reply group by simply saying "YES" or "NO". Or if you want you can also reply group with your comments on this issue. Thank you for your corporation. AC >Dear all newsgroup reader, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >AC Isn't the survey pretty much "in"? They sell digital tire gauges all the time in stores all over the country and have been for many years. -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 ||>Dear all newsgroup reader, ||> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] ||Isn't the survey pretty much "in"? They sell digital tire gauges all ||the time in stores all over the country and have been for many years. I'll bite on this. I race a sports car in SCCA road racing. Exact tire pressures are pretty important to us, so we pay for pretty good gauges. Even those will vary from brand to brand. I can check a tire with my gauge, and then borrow gauges from the people pitted next to me for comparison. We do that alot, in conjunction with the"What pressure are you running?" discussions. My analog racing gauge is dead on with those of at least two of the front-runners in our group. Both are very careful to buy good tools and take care of them. Lacking a way to check calibration, I think my analog gauge is very accurate. I have about 5 digital gauges, none of them cost over $10. Every single one reads exactly the same on the same tire. All are within .5 lbs of my analog guage, which is the limit of their resolution and the reason I don't use them for racing. If I find one with a 0.1 lb resolution, I will buy it. I read a while back that every brand of digital tire gauge on the market uses the same transducer. The only differences are the case and fittings around it. That fits with my simple tests. So I do use them with confidence on all my street vehicles, but I'm still analog for the track. Oh, and those pencil gauges are crap. So, does anyone know a way to check the accuracy of a tire gauge against a standard? Texas Parts Guy > Oh, and those pencil gauges are crap. > > So, does anyone know a way to check the accuracy of a tire gauge against a > standard? Sure. And since your a racing nut you probably would love this. Just drill a second tire stem hole in one of your rims that is opposite the main stem. Told you you would love it - as the second stem now balances the rim. ;-) Now you can hook a super-accurate guage to one stem and the guage to be calibrated to the other. Bleed down the air in small increments and check the pressures. Ted > So, does anyone know a way to check the accuracy of a tire gauge against a > standard? What I have seen in a lab is a deadweight pressure tester. It is sort of like a piston in a cylinder with a platform you can add weight to. The piston is a known area. You add the weight and generate a know pressure in the cylinder. It looks to me that most of the "portable" tester promise 0.1% to 0.25% accuracy depending on how much you are willing to spend. See: http://www.ipfonline.com/storefront/ravika/Product402.htm http://www.hotektech.com/Sicompany.htm Regards, Ed White > I am trying to do a survey on driver's willingness of purchasing a > Digital Tire Pressure Gauge, to ensure driving safety. http://www.getagauge.com/ Can't do much better than these - $10, and more accurate than digital. Best for digital is supposedly .5 lbs. I'm all in favor of getting a good quality gauge and using it, but don't think digital is it. Got one as a gift, and stays in the trunk for emergencies only. >> I am trying to do a survey on driver's willingness of purchasing a >> Digital Tire Pressure Gauge, to ensure driving safety. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >don't think digital is it. >Got one as a gift, and stays in the trunk for emergencies only. Is that a joke? You'd be lucky if those mechanical gauges were accurate to even a pound and a couple drops could ruin what accuracy a mechanical gauge did have. You can definitely do better. with digital. Not to mention that it's pretty easy to find a digital gauge that's at or under $10. -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 First of all, I didn't give you my corporation, if I HAD a corporation, I wouldn't give it to anybody. Had a snap-on digital like 10 years ago, worked nice, very accurate ( checked it against a mechanical guage, which is my preference) .If your in the repair business & check tire pressure several times a day, digital is nice (mine had a clock too, so you could see how long it was till beer thirty). But upon getting out of the trade in that respect, it wound up in the glove box of the truck & as little as that got used at that point, I usually found the batteries dead whenever I wanted to check the tires. The batteries in my mechanical one NEVER go dead. Oh, & to the original poster, "no" >First of all, I didn't give you my corporation, if I HAD a corporation, >I wouldn't give it to anybody. Had a snap-on digital like 10 years ago, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >batteries dead whenever I wanted to check the tires. The batteries in >my mechanical one NEVER go dead. Oh, & to the original poster, "no" I use both analog and digital as follows: I use analog to get me a little *over* in pressure, and then the digital to bleed it down to the precise reading I want. Works for me. Lg > I use analog to get me a little *over* in pressure, and then the > digital to bleed it down to the precise reading I want. Works for me. Sigh - and why is this any better than just using the analog gauge? Most of the consumer grade digital gauges I see only measure in 0.5 lb increments. Don't you think you can read an analog gauge this well (+/- 0.25 psi)? My personal opinion is that digital gauges give the illusion of being very precise without in fact being particularly precise or accurate. How does the digital gauge decide what number to display? I assume it has some algorithm which translates an analog voltage measurement into a digital display, but does the algorithm decide that 30.249 lb. as measured is 30.0 lb. or 30.5 lb. displayed? How does it translate the air pressure into a particular voltage? How accurate is the pressure / voltage translation? And then how is the voltage sampled and turned into a digital value? All things considered, I prefer a good mechanical gauge. Now if someone could sell me one that works reliably with water filler tractor tires, I'd be really happy. References: http://bell.mma.edu/~jbouch/Glossary/Precision.html http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/246/ >> I use analog to get me a little *over* in pressure, and then the >> digital to bleed it down to the precise reading I want. Works for me. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >http://bell.mma.edu/~jbouch/Glossary/Precision.html >http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/246/ And why does 1/4, or 1/2, or even 1 PSI make a difference? A difference in altitude of 1000 feet will make more than that. Knowledge may be power, but it can also be more time-consuming than it's worth.  SignatureBill Funk Change "g" to "a" > >> I use analog to get me a little *over* in pressure, and then the > >> digital to bleed it down to the precise reading I want. Works for me. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Knowledge may be power, but it can also be more time-consuming than > it's worth. Actually I agree with you. I think an accuracy of +/- 1.5 psi is probably sufficient for most drivers. A precision of 0.5 psi would be nice, since I believe it is more important to get the left and right side tires to the same pressure that to get them to the exact manufacturer's recommended pressure. BTW, I think the change in atmospheric pressure for a 1000 feet is only about 0.5 psi. Ed >And why does 1/4, or 1/2, or even 1 PSI make a difference? Because having tires that are inflated at different pressures can cause a car to spin when stopping on ice. >Knowledge may be power Yes. Maybe you should respect those who have it a little more (which does not imply that you do not have it.) >> I use analog to get me a little *over* in pressure, and then the >> digital to bleed it down to the precise reading I want. Works for me. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >http://bell.mma.edu/~jbouch/Glossary/Precision.html >http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/246/ My theory is you get what you pay for. If you are willing to spend a whole lot of money, you can get a good digital OR a good analog gauge. I think the *secret* is to get your *stuff* where the mechanics get their stuff, like from Snap On, or such, but that truck is hardly ever in my neighborhood. I run my 30 lb tires at 35 BTW. Much better handling, less wear and tear on the side tread when taking corners, the power steering is much more responsive. From time to time I check the tread depths -across the tire- with a depth gauge on my digital vernier calipers. I can see if I have to adjust the pressure up or down from there. Maybe 35 is OK for now, but if I am getting excessive wear from the center treads, I know to back it down to 33. I know one thing for sure, the 30 suggest inflation pressure is for ride comfort, not longevity of the tires. Lg AZGuy proclaimed: >>>I am trying to do a survey on driver's willingness of purchasing a >>>Digital Tire Pressure Gauge, to ensure driving safety. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that's at or under $10. > -- That misstatement of fact makes the laughably false presumption that the sensors in an inexpensive digital guage are any more accurate than the fairly simple mechanisms available for old fashioned mechanical guages. It also evidences a rather common false belief that just because something appears to display values at a higher resolution that it is any more accurate than a possibly far more accurate display at a lower resolution. Plus a somewhat challenged grasp of tire inflation where if a pound of absolute pressure makes any real difference [as opposed to repeatability and relative pressure] you are driving in a manner where only a fool would use less than a very very expensive guage. >AZGuy proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > relative pressure] you are driving in a manner where only a fool > would use less than a very very expensive guage. Baloney. Even a $20 electronic watch will actually keep better time than a $3000 Rolex. Don't believe me? I can provide the proof. Digital is the way to go for not only precise readings, but accurate ones as well. Lg Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > Baloney. Even a $20 electronic watch will actually keep better time > than a $3000 Rolex. Don't believe me? I can provide the proof. Perhaps. Depends on the accuracy of the timing engine and whether it drifts or not. Most use a fairly cheap timing engine much like that in a typical PC, and the watch doesn't typically come with NTP service. > Digital is the way to go for not only precise readings, but accurate > ones as well. One word, bull. Commonly believed bull, but still bull. >Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > One word, bull. Commonly believed bull, but still bull. I'll go 50/50 with you on this. I am dead-on with the comparison between a $3000 Rolex which a friend has and drifts 15 minutes / day, and the Timex digital I have, that drifts 15 minute a YEAR! Dead on about that, and he will admit to it. Now for the ultimate in analog gauges, I have a Tychos on my blood pressure monitor, and -that- is the *industry standard.* No stop pins, just a *zero zone.* It is as accurate as a mercury sphygmomanometer. Calibrated. But that cost big bucks, I assure you. I know, because I bought it myself. Most analog gauges you're going to get for car tires are sh.t. You know if you bought it for $7.50, it cost them 35 cents to manufacture it. Digital uses a pressure transducer that turns pressure into a voltage that is read-out as PSI. Chances of these being crap are minimal. I haven't done any tests with them yet, because it seems a waste of time, but I think dollar for dollar, digital beats analog hands down every time. We need to do a test under controlled labarotory conditions, and then I can prove it beyond all doubt. Lg Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > I'll go 50/50 with you on this. > I am dead-on with the comparison between a $3000 Rolex which a friend > has and drifts 15 minutes / day, and the Timex digital I have, that > drifts 15 minute a YEAR! Dead on about that, and he will admit to it. Too small a sample to make an unwarranted blanket statement. Worse, your friend's Rolex needs service. A Rolex should be more like 1 to 5 seconds per day for a purely mechanical version of a chronometer. Not unusual for a Tag Heuer chronometer to be within a matter of a few seconds per year. But then not that unusual for a Seiko to be just as accurate for a lot less money. Which has, as the british would say, sod all to do with tire guages. > Now for the ultimate in analog gauges, I have a Tychos on my blood > pressure monitor, and -that- is the *industry standard.* No stop > pins, just a *zero zone.* It is as accurate as a mercury > sphygmomanometer. Calibrated. Which has sod all to do with tire guages as well. > Most analog gauges you're going to get for car tires are sh.t. You > know if you bought it for $7.50, it cost them 35 cents to manufacture > it. Or you could buy a good calibrated bourdon tube style dial tire guage for a relatively modest price. Accuracy of half a pound or so. However, absolute accuracy isn't needed for street auto tires and not that many vehicles are tightly wound enough to really be that big a deal to be half a pound or so off in tire to tire pressure. > Digital uses a pressure transducer that turns pressure into a voltage > that is read-out as PSI. Chances of these being crap are minimal. That pressure transducer is mechanical. And as for digital readouts being crap, you are exposing your lack of knowledge in that area. Just because you see a digital value doesn't mean it is accurate. There are a lot of cheap crap digital guages out there. > I haven't done any tests with them yet, because it seems a waste of > time, but I think dollar for dollar, digital beats analog hands down > every time. What you mean is you haven't tested them, and are unfamiliar with the technology of not only the sensors but the accuracy of cheap digital devices. > We need to do a test under controlled labarotory conditions, and then > I can prove it beyond all doubt. "We" have calibrated hundreds of bourdon tube pressure transducers against temperature corrected mercury columns for a living. And no, you won't be able to prove it. >Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > against temperature corrected mercury columns for a living. And > no, you won't be able to prove it. All of your *spew* has sh.t all to do with tire pressure gauges. NOBODY USES BOURDON TUBE PRESSURE TRANSDUCERS in tire pressure gauges ! Nice you have that hobby, but it has sod to do with the subject at hand ! Lg Exposing his ignorance for all to be amazed, Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > All of your *spew* has sh.t all to do with tire pressure gauges. > NOBODY USES BOURDON TUBE PRESSURE TRANSDUCERS in tire pressure gauges 5 seconds with Google would prove what a ignorant sput you are...as if it needed proving, plonkbait. >Exposing his ignorance for all to be amazed, Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 5 seconds with Google would prove what a ignorant sput you are...as > if it needed proving, plonkbait. Well, you beat me too it. It's amazing how "knowledgeable" ol Lon claimed to be yet doesn't even know how a mechanical tire pressure gauge works. He must be thinking of those REALLY accurate stick gauges. -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 AZGuy proclaimed: > Well, you beat me too it. It's amazing how "knowledgeable" ol Lon > claimed to be yet doesn't even know how a mechanical tire pressure > gauge works. He must be thinking of those REALLY accurate stick > gauges. So are you a Glickman sock puppet claiming that there are no bourdon tube analog tire pressure guages? If so, you too are not only ignorant but too lazy to check your facts. > Exposing his ignorance for all to be amazed, Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 5 seconds with Google would prove what a ignorant sput you are...as > if it needed proving, plonkbait. For crying out loud - go buy a digital tire guage then an analog tire guage and check the calibration of the analog guage against the digital one - and mark any difference on the analog guage. Then both your guages will be inaccurate by the same amount! Ted >Nice you have that hobby, but it has sod to do with the subject at >hand ! The term is "sod all", not "sod". Even when presented with the term in print, you can't get it right. It's no wonder your posts about the relative efficacy of digital vs analog tire pressure gauges are such crap. SignatureBill Funk Change "g" to "a" Lawrence Glickman proclaimed: > Now for the ultimate in analog gauges, I have a Tychos on my blood > pressure monitor, and -that- is the *industry standard.* No stop > pins, just a *zero zone.* It is as accurate as a mercury > sphygmomanometer. Calibrated. Mercury pressure guages need to be compensated for temp... a good anaeroid barometer is typically calibrated against the mercury one every 8 hours. However, these are for measuring pressure in the millibar range, figure just over 1000 millibars for 30 inches of mercury [1016 mb is a bit more accurate]. > Most analog gauges you're going to get for car tires are sh.t. You > know if you bought it for $7.50, it cost them 35 cents to manufacture > it. You can get a reasonably serviceable bourdon style mechanical guage for well under a hundred dollars. These need relatively little adjustment for temperature except at the extremes. Some take shock better than others... and the better ones are accurate to within 0.5 psi of absolute reading with repeatability way better than that, which is more important for normal auto tires. You can get these for 10-25 dollars, but after a few bounces off the pavement from 3-4 feet their absolute accuracy can be off by a coupla pounds. Which still puts them within the inflation range of pretty much any vehicle if you go above the low end for handling at some sacrifice in softness. > Digital uses a pressure transducer that turns pressure into a voltage > that is read-out as PSI. Chances of these being crap are minimal. Most digital guages use a fairly simple strain guage. The reasonably priced ones will typically have a bit of correction for temperature and humidity. Some of the crap ones won't. The really accurate ones use piezo pressure sensors and are accurate to 1/2% full scale between roughly 20-80% full scale and cost a few hundred dollars. However you can also get a pretty good one for under $15 bucks, it won't be as mechanically robust, won't have as good a valve seal, but is good enough for most folks. > I haven't done any tests with them yet, because it seems a waste of > time, but I think dollar for dollar, digital beats analog hands down > every time. Very likely, with few exceptions I can think of--for tire guages. However, none are worth a dime if not used properly on cold tires regularly. > I am dead-on with the comparison between a $3000 Rolex which a friend > has and drifts 15 minutes / day, I have a $7 wind up alarm clock I use and I can keep its time within about a minute every three days. > and the Timex digital I have, that drifts 15 minute a YEAR! That's a very inaccurate digital watch. My Seiko SPORTS 150 watch gains a second per week (or a little less than a minute per year). >> I am dead-on with the comparison between a $3000 Rolex which a friend >> has and drifts 15 minutes / day, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >That's a very inaccurate digital watch. My Seiko SPORTS 150 watch gains >a second per week (or a little less than a minute per year). I paid $20 for this "Ironman" at Kmart. How much did you pay for yours again? $300? I had a Tag Hauer. Was like wearing a brick on my wrist. $800 US. Threw it in the garbage ( honest ). Could never find batteries for it. If you want the ultimate, get the radiowatch, that auto-synchronizes with WWV, an atomic clock, one of many that broadcast around the country. In Europe, they have similar watches. THEN you have the right time, but the bus will still be late, and the timeclock at work will still be *off.* Lg >>>and the Timex digital I have, that drifts 15 minute a YEAR! >>That's a very inaccurate digital watch. My Seiko SPORTS 150 watch gains >>a second per week (or a little less than a minute per year). > I paid $20 for this "Ironman" at Kmart. How much did you pay for > yours again? $300? I didn't pay anything for it. My dad got it for me as a gift around 13 or 14 years ago. In any case, the watch lacks any audio output, only displays the time with the date (no day or month), and has a simple stopwatch. I honestly don't think that it was that expensive to begin with. The Casio watch I had before that had a similar degree of accuracy. >>>>and the Timex digital I have, that drifts 15 minute a YEAR! > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >don't think that it was that expensive to begin with. The Casio watch I >had before that had a similar degree of accuracy. Seiko -does- build a good watch. I would be proud to own one, except they cost too much money for me. I mean, if I had $300, I could think of a lot of things that are needed around here before a wristwatch. Now if I suddenly come into an inheritance ( way remote chance of that happening ), I would love to have a Seiko. Good stuff, as I've had one, my friends have them, and they can't be beat for the price. You are lucky. Lg >I paid $20 for this "Ironman" at Kmart. How much did you pay for >yours again? $300? I had a Tag Hauer. Was like wearing a brick on >my wrist. $800 US. Threw it in the garbage ( honest ). Could never >find batteries for it. You should have bought a Tag Heuer, then you could have found batteries for it. I know Radio Shack has batteries that will fit a Tag Heuer. >If you want the ultimate, get the radiowatch, that auto-synchronizes >with WWV, an atomic clock, one of many that broadcast around the >country. In Europe, they have similar watches. THEN you have the >right time, but the bus will still be late, and the timeclock at work >will still be *off.* These will be the most accurate watches, but all the ones I have seen are fugly. ------------ Alex Alex Rodriguez proclaimed: >>I paid $20 for this "Ironman" at Kmart. How much did you pay for >>yours again? $300? I had a Tag Hauer. Was like wearing a brick on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You should have bought a Tag Heuer, then you could have found batteries > for it. I know Radio Shack has batteries that will fit a Tag Heuer. Yup. As do most watch stores. The hard part is finding a store that has the little watertight gasket on the back, as only Swisswave tends to carry them. >>If you want the ultimate, get the radiowatch, that auto-synchronizes >>with WWV, an atomic clock, one of many that broadcast around the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > These will be the most accurate watches, but all the ones I have seen are > fugly. The Junghans models aren't too bad looking, I just happen to prefer the looks of the Tag Heuer chronometers with the sport band. >I'll go 50/50 with you on this. >I am dead-on with the comparison between a $3000 Rolex which a friend >has and drifts 15 minutes / day, and the Timex digital I have, that >drifts 15 minute a YEAR! Dead on about that, and he will admit to it. Let's talk about devices that are not obviously in need of repair or adjustment. Not even you could believe that 15 minutes per day is the maximum accuracy that Rolex is capable of. SignatureBill Funk Change "g" to "a" >Most analog gauges you're going to get for car tires are sh.t. You >know if you bought it for $7.50, it cost them 35 cents to manufacture [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >We need to do a test under controlled labarotory conditions, and then >I can prove it beyond all doubt. I take the analog gauge any day. No batteries to mess with. Easy to use. Cheap to buy. ------------ Alex >>AZGuy proclaimed: >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >Baloney. Even a $20 electronic watch will actually keep better time >than a $3000 Rolex. Don't believe me? I can provide the proof. If the proof comes in the form that you buy me a digital watch and a rolex for comparison, count me in! :-P >Digital is the way to go for not only precise readings, but accurate >ones as well. > >Lg later, tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com >>>AZGuy proclaimed: >>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >:-P No, if I had the money, which I probably never will, I would buy a Seiko in a heartbeat. In the meantime, my $20 Timex will have to do. It tells the time, date, day, alarm, has a stopwatch function, all that I really need. I did have to change the watchband on it though to a Spidel because the polymer band was giving me an allergic reaction. Otherwise, it is doing a good job for $20. And every bit as accurate as anybody else's mechanical watch who I am familiar with. My point being, digital *can* be junk, if you get down to the $9 watches, but if you spend a little more, you've got something that actually can take a licking and keep on ticking ( so to speak ). Lg Digital, unless its someone's car I dont care about.... >In the meantime, my $20 Timex will have to do. It tells the time, >date, day, alarm, has a stopwatch function, all that I really need. I >did have to change the watchband on it though to a Spidel because the >polymer band was giving me an allergic reaction. Otherwise, it is >doing a good job for $20. And every bit as accurate as anybody else's >mechanical watch who I am familiar with. Actually, your $20 digital watch is more accurate than any mechanical watch. ------------ Alex Alex Rodriguez proclaimed: >>In the meantime, my $20 Timex will have to do. It tells the time, >>date, day, alarm, has a stopwatch function, all that I really need. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Actually, your $20 digital watch is more accurate than any mechanical watch. I have a real Tag Heuer and a fake Tag Heuer with the stereotypical cap-tuned HongKong innards. No surprise, but the fake one is just a tad more accurate, and the real one gets adjusted by Swisswave every time the battery needs changing. >Alex Rodriguez proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tad more accurate, and the real one gets adjusted by Swisswave every > time the battery needs changing. If there are quality 'fakes' out there, why pay for the real one? Plus, why the heck do people pay for such expensive watches? Just asking..... later, tom @ www.URLBee.com >>>AZGuy proclaimed: >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >If the proof comes in the form that you buy me a digital watch and a >rolex for comparison, count me in! No, thew "proof" comes in the form of a friend who has a Rolex that obviously needs work. >:-P > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com SignatureBill Funk Change "g" to "a" >AZGuy proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > than the fairly simple mechanisms available for old fashioned > mechanical guages. And where is your evidence that they are not? Having compared several mechanical gauges as well as several digital gauges I've found the digitals to be far more consist then the mechanical ones. It also evidences a rather common false > belief that just because something appears to display values at > a higher resolution that it is any more accurate than a possibly > far more accurate display at a lower resolution. You seem to be confusing precision with accuracy. I have found digitals to be both accurate AND precise. I have found mechanicals to be not quite as good on either count when compared to digital. Plus a somewhat > challenged grasp of tire inflation where if a pound of absolute > pressure makes any real difference [as opposed to repeatability and > relative pressure] you are driving in a manner where only a fool > would use less than a very very expensive guage. Again, where is your evidence. Nothing that's been posted is anything other then opinions and anecdotes. Your's carries no more weight then any other (mine included). -- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts: "What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789 AC proclaimed: > Dear all newsgroup reader, > > I am trying to do a survey on driver's willingness of purchasing a > Digital Tire Pressure Gauge, to ensure driving safety. Why purchase one? Why not just wait until you get a halfway decent one free for some promotion or other? They aren't at all expensive. As for "ensure driving safety" there isn't one single solitary thing that a digital guage can do that a good old fashioned inexpensive guage cannot. It has nothing to do with the guage, first you have to convince the driver to *use* one. >AC proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > guage cannot. It has nothing to do with the guage, first you have > to convince the driver to *use* one. I say why depend on a device that uses batteries than can go dead when you can get another device that same job just as well and does not use batteries? Not to mention that the regular tire gauge is many times cheaper than the digital ones. ------------- Alex > I say why depend on a device that uses batteries than can go dead when you > can get another device that same job just as well and does not use batteries? > Not to mention that the regular tire gauge is many times cheaper than the > digital ones. I am not sure I agree with this. Digitial gauges are pretty cheap these days - $10 or so (0.5 lb increments). A good analog gauge is just about the same. A "stick" gague may be cheaper, but I consider them crap. Ed > I am not sure I agree with this. Digitial gauges are pretty > cheap these days - $10 or so (0.5 lb increments). Yep, with finest Chinese "quality". > A "stick" gague may be cheaper, but I consider them crap. You never met my "stick" gauge, which was most assuredly not cheap and is most assuredly not crap. The form factor of the gauge has nothing to do with its accuracy, precision or quality. >> I say why depend on a device that uses batteries than can go dead when you >> can get another device that same job just as well and does not use batteries? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >analog gauge is just about the same. A "stick" gague may be >cheaper, but I consider them crap. You consider them crap, in my experience they work just fine. I checked it against a nice dial gauge I also own and it was close enough for me, within 1 psi. ------------------- Alex ||In article <W_4xd.211578$5K2.119367@attbi_s03>, lon.stowell@comcast.net says... ||> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] ||Not to mention that the regular tire gauge is many times cheaper than the ||digital ones. The biggest brand of digital gauges warrants the gauge for life, including batteries. Texas Parts Guy > > As for "ensure driving safety" there isn't one single solitary thing > > that a digital guage can do that a good old fashioned inexpensive [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ------------- > Alex My experience: I had terrible tire life on a car with small tires (155 R13 / 80) when using 2 different stick gauges. The tire life doubled when I got a decent digital gauge. Larger tires are not so sensitive though. You can get a fine digital gauge for $10 or $20...the cost of a few gallons of gas...I'll never use a stick gauge again. -John Alex Rodriguez proclaimed: > I say why depend on a device that uses batteries than can go dead when you > can get another device that same job just as well and does not use batteries? > Not to mention that the regular tire gauge is many times cheaper than the > digital ones. Not really. A perfectly serviceable digital of the strain gauge variety will cost under $20. You *can* buy bourdon tube mechanicals such as the cheaper Accu-gauge units for less than that, but none of the important innards are of good brass and bronze. A good mechanical that won't move 3-5 pounds the first time you bounce it off the pavement will run well over a hundred bucks...or at least all the ones I've ran into are in that range--or more. Of course a super accurate digital with a piezo style transducer, calibration, etc. will run in the $300 range, with more common prices for 0.1 lb digital pro gauges in the $100 range, e.g. the Pressure Inc. || You *can* buy bourdon tube mechanicals || such as the cheaper Accu-gauge units for less than that, but none of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] || will run in the $300 range, with more common prices for 0.1 lb || digital pro gauges in the $100 range, e.g. the Pressure Inc. Where do yo find such gauges? Texas Parts Guy >Dear all newsgroup reader, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >AC HUH? later, tom @ www.URLBee.com -25C out there this morning. Wife has flat likely due to aluminum rim leaking. While pumping it up went to check other tires. Got out her fancy 'digital' gauge. Dead as a door nail. Gee I wonder if the batteries freeze? Got regular stick gauge out of my Jeep and verified the rest of the tires. Threw digital gauge into garbage where it belongs. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Dear all newsgroup reader, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > AC > -25C out there this morning. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dead as a door nail. Gee I wonder if the batteries freeze? Gee, if the temperature was -40C and your car doesn't start, do you wonder if the battery froze? Would you have it towed to a junkyard believing that's where it belongs? > > -25C out there this morning. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > wonder if the battery froze? Would you have it towed to a junkyard > believing that's where it belongs? What good is a gauge my wife can only use 6 months of the year and "I" better not forget it is in her glove box where it belongs or it will die? No good at all to answer my own question so it went in the trash. :-) And yes if my or my wife's Jeep battery had of quit, even at -40 I would have delt with a bad connection, loose belt or tossed the battery in the recycle trash if it froze or couldn't hold the cold load for sure! I am in up in The Great White North eh and a good battery is a must! We are doing a 5 day New Years deep bush run and can expect to see as low as -40 in the area we are going. Our batteries better be able to handle it! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >>Gee, if the temperature was -40C and your car doesn't start, do you >>wonder if the battery froze? Would you have it towed to a junkyard >>believing that's where it belongs? > What good is a gauge my wife can only use 6 months of the year and "I" > better not forget it is in her glove box where it belongs or it will > die? IME, they start working again when the temperature goes back up. I have a digital gauge in my car right now and it still works (the temperature dropped down to -17 C here). > And yes if my or my wife's Jeep battery had of quit, even at -40 I would > have delt with a bad connection, loose belt or tossed the battery in the > recycle trash if it froze or couldn't hold the cold load for sure! About 9 years ago, my dad's '93 Volvo 850 wouldn't start the next morning after the temperature dropped down to -25 C overnight. I assume the same would happen to any car battery that wasn't kept warm if the temperature dropped down to -40 C. > We are doing a 5 day New Years deep bush run and can expect to see as > low as -40 in the area we are going. Our batteries better be able to > handle it! As long as you keep them somewhat warm :) > IME, they start working again when the temperature goes back up. I have > a digital gauge in my car right now and it still works (the temperature > dropped down to -17 C here). Some of them have cheap LCD's that will get slow or fail to display when they are cold. As the othe rposter said if it can't work in his environment it's useless. > > And yes if my or my wife's Jeep battery had of quit, even at -40 I would > > have delt with a bad connection, loose belt or tossed the battery in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the same would happen to any car battery that wasn't kept warm if the > temperature dropped down to -40 C. It shouldn't happen. A fully charged car battery has an electrolytic freezing point of negative 67 degrees Celsius. But I think your being a smartass as the poster obviously was meaning -40 below zero Farenheight. Your father's battery was probably a cheap 400 CCA job. A typical 660 CCA battery can still deliver over 200 amps of cranking power at -40 F. > > We are doing a 5 day New Years deep bush run and can expect to see as > > low as -40 in the area we are going. Our batteries better be able to > > handle it! > > As long as you keep them somewhat warm :) Nonsense, he just needs to have good batteries, not cheapies. Ted >> IME, they start working again when the temperature goes back up. I have >> a digital gauge in my car right now and it still works (the temperature [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >poster >obviously was meaning -40 below zero Farenheight. -40C = -40F. >>About 9 years ago, my dad's '93 Volvo 850 wouldn't start the next >>morning after the temperature dropped down to -25 C overnight. I assume >>the same would happen to any car battery that wasn't kept warm if the >>temperature dropped down to -40 C. > It shouldn't happen. A fully charged car battery has an electrolytic > freezing point of negative 67 degrees Celsius. But I think your > being a smartass as the poster obviously was meaning -40 below zero > Farenheight. -40F - 32 * 5 / 9 = ? That car was less than 2 years old and still had the battery it came with from the dealer's lot. > Your father's battery was probably a cheap 400 CCA job. A typical 660 CCA > battery can still deliver over 200 amps of cranking power at -40 F. You're probably right about that. > >>Gee, if the temperature was -40C and your car doesn't start, do you > >>wonder if the battery froze? Would you have it towed to a junkyard [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > As long as you keep them somewhat warm :) -25 yesterday and both Jeeps started right up. I have excellent batteries with high CCA'a and fully expect -40 starts. -40C or -40F, no matter the buggers better turn over. ;-) On the odd chance it drops way down or someone does have battery issues, we bring BBQ briquettes and have large pot lids. We either get the BBQ going in the pot lid or put a mess of coals from the fire in it and sit it under the oil pan with the hood closed for a while. This will heat up everything including the battery. You have to 'really' watch the placement of the BBQ so you don't cook wires or rubber parts, but our oil pans are pretty open. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Arif Khokar proclaimed: >> -25C out there this morning. >> Wife has flat likely due to aluminum rim leaking. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > wonder if the battery froze? Would you have it towed to a junkyard > believing that's where it belongs? Why not just ask him how cold that would be in Fahrenheit? > Arif Khokar proclaimed: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > Why not just ask him how cold that would be in Fahrenheit? Hmmmm it's the same as -40F. -40F=-40C. As far as witch gauge is better who cares?? Digital analog unless you're a pro racer is a gauge that is maybe 2 pounds off going to make a big difference in drivability???? I think not. |
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