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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / February 2005Hydraulic VS. Electric winches
OK group, I am looking for EXPERIENCE related opinions on hydraulic and electric winches. Which type works best. If you have never used one please don't tell me that type is horrible. I'm looking for one in the 12,000 lb range. Thanks. > OK group, I am looking for EXPERIENCE related opinions on hydraulic and > electric winches. Which type works best. If you have never used one > please don't tell me that type is horrible. I'm looking for one in the > 12,000 lb range. Thanks. You need a running engine for an hydraulic winch to operate. (Also true for PTO winches which might be an option if you have PTO) For electric winches you might need a dual battery set-up. Sorry, you were asking for experience related opinions. This is technical... Someone else ? Kind regards, Erik-Jan. If you are a trail leader and the only sucker with a winch so you have to sit at the top and pull everyone up, then a hydraulic is the way to go. They can pull all day as long as your engine is running. If you want one for self extraction and the occasional pulling friends along than an electric is better because it will still work if your engine dies in the middle of a water crossing or if you are way off camber like tilted over on it's side or something where you can't run the engine. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > OK group, I am looking for EXPERIENCE related opinions on hydraulic and > electric winches. Which type works best. If you have never used one > please don't tell me that type is horrible. I'm looking for one in the > 12,000 lb range. Thanks. > OK group, I am looking for EXPERIENCE related opinions on hydraulic and > electric winches. i have owned and used both extensively. each has their own advantages and disadvantages, please see http://7slotgrille.com/projects/03rubicon/mm/index.html for my reasons why i went from electric to hydraulic. for serious pulling, hydraulic is the way to go.  SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com Do you know if the winch will destroy your power steering pump? Or is this no issue> Matt > Do you know if the winch will destroy your power steering pump? Or is > this no issue> ive never known a pump to fail from adding a winch. the energy is there anyway, the winch just takes advantage of it. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com "Nathan W. Collier" schrieb: > > Do you know if the winch will destroy your power steering pump? Or is > > this no issue> > > ive never known a pump to fail from adding a winch. the energy is there > anyway, the winch just takes advantage of it. Prolonged winching heats up the oil very rapidly since P/S pumps have almost no reservoir that may act as 'thermal buffer'. Real PTO hydraulics have at least 10 to 20l of hydraulic fluid that can buffer the heat and the tank may act as radiator as well. Dunno what the military's up to, but they won't work their winches long - and if they fail, who cares. I suggest to check out military strategies regarding the effective lifetime in battle when talking of the quality of military equipment. The seal 'military approved' isn't worth that much if you know about the details. Cheers, Axel > Prolonged winching heats up the oil very rapidly since P/S pumps have > almost > no reservoir that may act as 'thermal buffer'. what damage are you suggesting? i know of many situations on organized runs where a single p/s hyraulic winch pulled the entire party up hills to steep to climb with no damage. in fact, watching this first hand is what sold me on hydraulic winching to begin with. i was riding my ATV on ft. bragg and watched a hmmwv winch an entire convoy up a ravine. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com "Nathan W. Collier" schrieb: > what damage are you suggesting? i know of many situations on organized runs > where a single p/s hyraulic winch pulled the entire party up hills to steep > to climb with no damage. in fact, watching this first hand is what sold me > on hydraulic winching to begin with. i was riding my ATV on ft. bragg and > watched a hmmwv winch an entire convoy up a ravine. Fading of the hydraulic power (that is, of the little power such a pump can provide compared to >>10kW up to 20kW a PTO provides), loss of lubrication, damaged pump a.s.o. Overheating effects in a wide variety, boiling oil, spilled oil´, failure of seals. The professional rallye drivers and recovery vehicle owners we equip would laugh at us for good reason if we'd suggest PS-driven hydraulics. A single belt as supplied in standard 4x4 vehicles CANNOT provide enough long-term mechanical power in excess of 2-3kW. A PTO can. Rgds, Axel > A single belt as > supplied in standard 4x4 vehicles CANNOT provide enough long-term > mechanical > power in excess of 2-3kW. A PTO can. oh no, im not suggesting that its equivalent to a pto powered hydraulic winch. that would be like comparing a dana 44 to a rockwell. for recreational recovery that jeepers/other off roaders run into though, a p/s powered hydraulic winch is the most powerful realistic option available at anything less than an insane price. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com > oh no, im not suggesting that its equivalent to a pto powered hydraulic > winch. that would be like comparing a dana 44 to a rockwell. for > recreational recovery that jeepers/other off roaders run into though, a p/s > powered hydraulic winch is the most powerful realistic option available at > anything less than an insane price. Agreed :-) Well, this is where my personality kicks in, I can't stand having half-way-solution on my rig and sometimes tend to crusade my opinion a bit. Nevertheless, Hydraulic winches of any kind are much more reliable than standard electric WARN or similar. They withstand a year w/o running them and still work fine. Btw., I'm running a well-services waterproofed 8274 on a 24V rig and am currently building a underfloor rear hydraulic into. Axel > > Prolonged winching heats up the oil very rapidly since P/S pumps have > > almost [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com On that note alone I for one am sure glad I was given an electric winch.... Man to be the sucker/fool/idiot who stands at the top and 'has' to help everyone up is sure not my idea of a fun off road trip. ;-) Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Man to be the sucker/fool/idiot who stands at the top and 'has' to help > everyone up is sure not my idea of a fun off road trip. > ;-) heh. i dont mind it really. ive been "lead dog" in those situations when wheeling with my buddys just because i had the hydraulic winch. its not to bad so long as youre sitting on your bumper sipping a cold one while some other sucker is running the cable back down. :-) that said, ill take it up another level. i think that its irresponsible of anyone to wheel without their own recovery gear. it doesnt have to be a hydraulic winch or an electric winch. it can be a come-along or highlift with enough straps but have _something_ to keep from being a burden on those around you. theres just no excuse for not having some type of recovery gear on board, you cant afford to off road without it. ive happened across some in the past who were stuck that didnt have any recovery gear at all, and not a clue what they were going to do and they were totally at my mercy and good graces. its really sad when its a family out wheeling with small children and not so much as even a cell phone/cb radio. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com > > Man to be the sucker/fool/idiot who stands at the top and 'has' to help > > everyone up is sure not my idea of a fun off road trip. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > graces. its really sad when its a family out wheeling with small children > and not so much as even a cell phone/cb radio. Couple years back the wife and I were out sightseeing and decided to take Tincup pass from St. Elmos to Tincup in the Comanche. Hell, 2WD and a little care will make that trip when the snow is gone in the summer, but I misjudged the line on one creek and managed to get a bumper on each bank (approach/departure angle is NOT a feature of a longbed pickup!). I was pulling the jack out to drop the rear end out in the creek when a built CJ with 4 kids comes up and throws a strap. On the other side I tried to pass them a few bucks to buy some beer but they outright refused - said they made all the money they could use yanking tourists who were totally unprepared so when they saw that I was actually about to get myself out they felt it was just a helping hand, not a recovery. Nice guys - bought them burgers anyway when I ran into them in Tincup later. SignatureWill Honea Very good report on the winch you have there ... Matt web1000@shaw.ca schrieb: > Very good report on the winch you have there ... > > Matt Very nice. Anyone tell me why I need a 'Flow Restrictor'? I wouldn't want anything 'restricting' my winch.... Axel Look no further than the MileMarker hydraulic winch...... SignatureMad-Dog '79 Chevy K-10 Slightly modified http://mad-dog16.tripod.com/ -- > OK group, I am looking for EXPERIENCE related opinions on hydraulic and > electric winches. Which type works best. If you have never used one > please don't tell me that type is horrible. I'm looking for one in the > 12,000 lb range. Thanks. Mad Dog schrieb: > Look no further than the MileMarker hydraulic winch...... ...and then take approach to what is being used by professional recovery vehicles.... no PS-pump, no MileMarker. Real PTO hydraulics, real high pressure winches. Cheerz, Axel > ...and then take approach to what is being used by professional recovery > vehicles.... no PS-pump, no MileMarker. Real PTO hydraulics, real high > pressure winches. the US army doesnt seem to have a problem with running their mile marker hydraulics off the power steering pump. the power steering pump is an immense source of potential energy, and the mile marker makes good use of it. it might not be enough for a 10 wheeled tow truck, but it will be more than enough for any type of self recovery youll ever want to do. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com What's up with your time and date Nathan? I am seeing you all over the calendar and clock in the groups recently. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > ...and then take approach to what is being used by professional recovery > > vehicles.... no PS-pump, no MileMarker. Real PTO hydraulics, real high [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com > What's up with your time and date Nathan? I am seeing you all over the > calendar and clock in the groups recently. heh. my news server is really screwy lately (even worse than my mail server). so long as it gets my messages up im not to worried. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com Ya but your messages hang around in the wrong places for days on end. Nothing wrong with your server dude, your computer time and date are just plain off. Looks like by about 24 hours. Fast by the way, not delayed...... Mike > > What's up with your time and date Nathan? I am seeing you all over the > > calendar and clock in the groups recently. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com > Nothing wrong with your server dude, your computer time and date are > just plain off. my date/time are both correct, i just checked it. i use xp pro that synchronizes its internal clock with microsoft. any problems with message times have to be server related as im currently showing 18:16MST 2/25/05 on my pc clock. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com >:|Mad Dog schrieb: >:| [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >:|Cheerz, >:|Axel you know that a PS pump is just a 1400-1600PSI hydraulic pump, right? whether it hooks to the engine via a drive belt or through the transmission doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you'd want to go to the trouble of hooking up another hydraulic pump to the system when you've already got one that will do the job quite well, as you really don't need a 30,000lbs continuous duty winch on a 4x4. -Bret |
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