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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / June 2006Land Rover Discovery bonnet release at 60 km/h
Travelling at 60 km/h on the Glow Worm Tunnel Rd, Newnes State Forest several weeks ago, the bonnet smacked into the windscreen without warning. Luckily the road was straight and there were no on-coming cars-I stopped the vehicle without further incident. Upon inspection, two bolt/screws that hold a bonnet plate that engages into the release levers were found loose in the engine bay (on the bar above the radiator). See photos at: http://home.people.net.au/~wabbaly/Disco%20Bonnet% 20Release%20at%2060%20kmh/ With some difficulty the three of us lowered the bonnet, carefully manipulating the wipers under the bonnet's lower edge (they were in that position because of the accident). Because there was no phone reception, we couldn't call Land Rover's Roadside Assist, therefore we tied the bonnet down and drown slowly home and called there. Had the bonnet spontaneously released itself minutes before or after, the three of us could have crashed into a pine tree or sandstone road cutting. We are so fortunate the accident took place where it did. The car: Was I driving an old Disco. No, it's a 2003 Land Rover Discovery, Series II, purchased Dec 2003, under warranty until Dec 2006. Serviced by the book by Land Rover service centres. Land Rover "Customer Care" were initially reluctant to provide us with a replacement car or cover the costs of towing. This, and other behaviour, was totally disrespectful considering that the three of us could have died due to the malfunction had it occurred elsewhere. Particular mention must be made of Andrew Howard and Maggie (Margaret) Horesch (National Customer Care Manager for LRA) both of whom work in Melbourne--they have shown complete disreguard for our circumstance--I hope none of you have to deal with them when it really matters. Has anyone heard of this happening to Land Rovers? The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? > The car: Was I driving an old Disco. No, it's a 2003 Land Rover > Discovery, Series II, purchased Dec 2003, > under warranty until Dec 2006. Serviced by the book by Land Rover > service centres. I take it that this means that the service book doesn't have a section on checking the bonnet locking mechanism's integrity. > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? sh.t can happen anywhere anytime. There is no rule that says it can't happen again. Might be a good idea to check the securing mechanism yourself. > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? There is supposed to a secondary bonnet catch so if the first catch fails then the bonnet is still prevented from coming open. My question would be is why did the second catch fail? Bolts vibrating loose on a 4WD used on rough roads is not uncommon and to a certain extent is to be expected, such things should be checked at service time and should also be noticed by the owner/driver when doing regular under bonnet checks as per the owners manual which of course you always do? Daryl > > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > > accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? > > There is supposed to a secondary bonnet catch so if the first catch > fails then the bonnet is still prevented from coming open. > My question would be is why did the second catch fail? I'm unaware of the existence of a second catch--can you enlighten me? Is it visible in the photos I've posted? > Bolts vibrating loose on a 4WD used on rough roads is not uncommon and > to a certain extent is to be expected, such things should be checked at > service time and should also be noticed by the owner/driver when doing > regular under bonnet checks as per the owners manual which of course you > always do? Since the car has done <60 000 km I didn't think loose bolts would be an issue; and if they were, I thought Land Rover would note it in the manual and/or inspect these bolts at service. > Daryl >> There is supposed to a secondary bonnet catch so if the first catch >> fails then the bonnet is still prevented from coming open. >> My question would be is why did the second catch fail? It didn't. If you look at the pictures it is still latched to the front valance in No.5. What has happened is that combined secondary latch and primary lock unit has become detached from the bonnet. There are only two bolts holding that unit to the bonnet if they fall out... > I'm unaware of the existence of a second catch--can you enlighten me? So you haven't been doing the weekly checks on fluids etc as per the User Manual. You would know about the secondary latch if you had, as you shouldn't be able to open the bonnet without releasing it. > Is it visible in the photos I've posted? Yes, in No.5 but it should be attched to the bonnet just below the gap in the seal in No.4. > Since the car has done <60 000 km I didn't think loose bolts would be > an issue; and if they were, I thought Land Rover would note it in the > manual and/or inspect these bolts at service. It's not a service item and three years is ample time for a couple of small bolts to work loose. Once a bolt is loose it'll work it's way out surprisngly quickly, like hours or less. sh.t happens, but the attitude of Customer Care leaves a little to be desired but that may be down to a reaction against your apparently agressive attitude. If you want people to do things for you, don't upset them. Human nature being what it is means that some one annoyed by someone will do the minimum required (or by the book). Get them on your side and more stops are likely to be pulled out to assist you and get you what you want.  SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail .... > sh.t happens, but the attitude of Customer Care leaves a little to be > desired but that may be down to a reaction against your apparently [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheers new5pam@howhill.com > Dave. pam is missing e-mail I agree with you Dave. I was polite to all I spoke to at Land Rover Customer Care and thought that they would understand the severity of our experience. Several did understand and could put themselves in our shoes, however the ones that had the power to make things better chose to not to. Thus it seems to me that the latter were thinking about the bottom line rather than their customer; i.e. they didn't seem to "care". > .... > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to not to. Thus it seems to me that the latter were thinking about the > bottom line rather than their customer; i.e. they didn't seem to "care". Should have bought a Lada. It opens the other way. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > Should have bought a Lada. It opens the other way. Or a Saab... <SLAP> Ouch! Signatureant >>>The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this >>>accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm unaware of the existence of a second catch--can you enlighten me? > Is it visible in the photos I've posted? I should of looked at the photos before, the second catch is the yellow lever you lift to open the bonnet. Both catches are attached to the bonnet by the same 2 bolts which IMO is a bad design. >>Bolts vibrating loose on a 4WD used on rough roads is not uncommon and >>to a certain extent is to be expected, such things should be checked at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > an issue; and if they were, I thought Land Rover would note it in the > manual and/or inspect these bolts at service. How much off road have you done, corrugations will shake even the tightest bolts loose? I'm surprised you didn't notice something wrong ong before the bolts fell completely out. Daryl > > > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > > > accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm unaware of the existence of a second catch--can you enlighten me? > Is it visible in the photos I've posted? Its normally in place to prevent the bonnet from flying up. > > Bolts vibrating loose on a 4WD used on rough roads is not uncommon and > > to a certain extent is to be expected, such things should be checked at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > an issue; and if they were, I thought Land Rover would note it in the > manual and/or inspect these bolts at service. Nah......you might aswell check that you have your cloths on. You need Bonnet Pins http://www.speedzone.com.au/trader.asp?product=1921&id=5624 Age old solution for families with bonnet problems. Landrover should install them for you >> ... >> Since the car has done <60 000 km I didn't think loose bolts would be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Nah......you might aswell check that you have your cloths on. > You need Bonnet Pins and some simple fear - it's a great safety feature. having had exactly this happen to me in a MKIV zephyr/zodic/whatever way back when a youth I constantly monitor bonnet status just as I monitor where traffic is around me, coolant temp, etc.... When the 110 decided to release the bonnet it was caught nicely by the secondary catch - failure was sticky release cable. SignatureWilliam Tasso 110 V8 The secondary bonnet catch is useless in this situation as the actual bolting mechanism has come off. >> The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this >> accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Daryl > The secondary bonnet catch is useless in this situation as the actual > bolting mechanism has come off. Correct, I didn't look at the photos the first time around. IMO thats not a good design, the secondary catch is supposed to stop the bonnet flying open if the first catch fails but it can't work if it all falls off. BTW I went and looked under the bonnets of my 2 Toyota's (Hilux and Corolla), the bonnet latches are a different design but if the bolts came loose then the result would be the same as what happened to the Disco so the Toyota design isn't really much safer. Daryl > BTW I went and looked under the bonnets of my 2 Toyota's (Hilux and > Corolla), the bonnet latches are a different design but if the bolts > came loose then the result would be the same as what happened to the > Disco so the Toyota design isn't really much safer. As Damo also found. Two reported cases of this in as many weeks ... Adds bonnet release failure to front tire failure as phobias ... as well as the health related thread. f.ck! at this rate I'm not even gunna get out of bed in the morning for fear of breaking meself. URK! Signature-------------------------------------------- 4x4 Hilux Auto Service Centre, BP 106 Timbuktu, Mali (West Africa) Tel: 292 91 52 Specialising in turbo diesel and R290 aircon -------------------------------------------- >>BTW I went and looked under the bonnets of my 2 Toyota's (Hilux and >>Corolla), the bonnet latches are a different design but if the bolts [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As Damo also found. Two reported cases of this in as many > weeks ... A good case for fitting extra bonnet tie downs as required by race cars rules. > Adds bonnet release failure to front tire failure as phobias ... as > well as the health related thread. f.ck! at this rate I'm not even > gunna get out of bed in the morning for fear of breaking meself. I've never experienced either but a car still managed to stuff my knee last week:-) Hopefully I'll find out what's damaged tomorrow. Daryl > Has anyone heard of this happening to Land Rovers? Nah, the weight of the spare tyre, shovel & pick guaranteed mine to never lift, I pretty much avoided lifting it as much as I could rarely saw any good news in there :) >Has anyone heard of this happening to Land Rovers? can't say as I have, personally. >The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this >accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? loctite on the bolts. They shouldn't be able to come loose. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a Bank Holiday weekend. from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton. .... > >The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > >accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? > > loctite on the bolts. They shouldn't be able to come loose. That was my thought too, but the smash repairer said then they'd never be able to be undone, if required (when would that be?). He suspected I bought a "Friday afternoon" car, and that possibly some spring washers were omitted. >.... >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >bought a "Friday afternoon" car, and that possibly some spring washers >were omitted. you can get the sort of loctite that's undoable. and anyway, how often does the bonnet catch need undoing? SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink; Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by; Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710) ..... > >That was my thought too, but the smash repairer said then they'd never > >be able to be undone, if required (when would that be?). He suspected I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you can get the sort of loctite that's undoable. and anyway, how often does > the bonnet catch need undoing? Yeah, I agree. That's an option that I like. >..... >> >That was my thought too, but the smash repairer said then they'd never [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yeah, I agree. That's an option that I like. they put blue loctite or simialr on brake caliper bolts on some stuff. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself. If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself. from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton. .... > See photos at: http://home.people.net.au/~wabbaly/Disco%20Bonnet% > 20Release%20at%2060%20kmh/ ..... Also posted the photos at a more permanent site: http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/d2au/photos/browse/c02f > Travelling at 60 km/h on the Glow Worm Tunnel Rd, Newnes State Forest > several weeks ago, the bonnet smacked into the windscreen without [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > accident happen? Is this a troll?????? I mean no-one could possibly have been unaware of LR's shite attitude to their customers *after_the_sale* ? Their shite design? Their shite build quality? Yeah - It has to be a troll.. Anyway, in the extremely unlikely event your piece was not a troll, LR is at this moment kicking themselves severely up th' arse for offering that very un-traditional longish warranty. So, you can be pleased you've had 'some' impact on the bastards. > Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? You're kidding if you dn't know the answer to that - troll or no troll:-) SignatureToby. quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur drystone@swiftdsl.com.au came up with the following;: > Has anyone heard of this happening to Land Rovers? Not mine, but the front corners of the bonnet do move somewhat alarmingly at speeds above 60mph on the motorways. > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > accident happen? It does look like you [1] just haven't spotted the bolts and catch are loose when you've been doing the normal, everyday checks we [2] all do. > Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? The normal, everyday checks we all do, but add one, for your own piece of mind, that includes checking the bonnet release. Actually I have to spray mine regularly with WD40/Plusgas etc to keep it free .. it always seems to stiffen up after a few weeks. [1] I do also mean any service 'personnel' who might have been doing the servicing. [2] That's the royal 'we', I don't pretend to speak for everyone, but mean 'we' as a family of drivers. :) SignaturePaul ... (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!! > drystone@swiftdsl.com.au came up with the following;: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > [2] That's the royal 'we', I don't pretend to speak for everyone, but > mean 'we' as a family of drivers. :) Too many drivers of modern cars almost never open the bonnet of their vehicle to do basic checks. Many drivers seem to think that nothing under the bonnet needs checking inbetween services which in a way is a tribute to the reliablity of modern vehicles but IMO its wrong and can lead to problems which would of otherwise been found and rectified long before they became dangerous. Daryl > Travelling at 60 km/h on the Glow Worm Tunnel Rd, Newnes State Forest <SNIP> > Has anyone heard of this happening to Land Rovers? **Well, it is a Pommy car, you know. Why are you surprised that the Poms still build crap vehicles? The only other time I am aware that this occurred was when my high school girlfriend was having a driving lesson with one of my mates. His Morris Minor lost it's bonnet in the same way. Flew right over the top of the car, after hitting the windscreen. My girlfriend was lucky to survive. SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com <Snipped antipodean racist shite> knobhead> My girlfriend was lucky to survive. You sure about that c.nt? > -- > Trevor Wilson > www.rageaudio.com.au SignatureSubaru WRX Range Rover 4.6 HSE (The Tank!) We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!! > <Snipped antipodean racist shite> **Nope. No racist shite. Just the facts. Here's another fine example of British automotive engineering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_Robin http://youtube.com/watch?v=FpztVxOtvQw&search=Top%20Gear And another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Herald One of my mates used to own a Range Rover. After a ski trip in one, I remarked that the only part of the car which moved quickly, on depressing the accelerator pedal was the tacho. It was a slow, expensive, unreliable piece of sh.t. But hey, defend it all you want. SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> <Snipped antipodean racist shite> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >the accelerator pedal was the tacho. It was a slow, expensive, unreliable >piece of sh.t. But hey, defend it all you want. The fuel gauges also move very fast on range rovers! ;-) Youve noticed this thread is going out in alt.fan.landrover too? which is also fairly UK based, so theres just no need to start trolling! There are plenty of Aussie things we could pick on if we tried! I also dont see how anybody could take offence to a reliant robin or triumph herald! Sure they may have their faults, but so does everything and they are somewhat more intersting than the majority of new cars on the road that all look the same.. >http://youtube.com/watch?v=FpztVxOtvQw&search=Top%20Gear ROFL, anyone who would buy a three wheel vehicle is getting just waht they ask for! Fun!!! >>http://youtube.com/watch?v=FpztVxOtvQw&search=Top%20Gear > >ROFL, anyone who would buy a three wheel vehicle is getting just waht >they ask for! Fun!!! mind, I've long thought than Needell has way to much opinon of himself and a lack of convincing ability to match it. you could do that trick with *any* car. having owned and driven various reliants, and yes, crashed 'em too, they're a bloody sight more fun than most people think. and FWIW, I've seen 90 on the clock on a robin. also interesting to note how relatively unscathed it is, too, afterwards. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Quos deus vult perdere, prius dementat" Euripedes, quoted in Boswell's "Johnson". In aus.cars Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote: > having owned and driven various reliants, and yes, crashed 'em too, they're > a bloody sight more fun than most people think. > and FWIW, I've seen 90 on the clock on a robin. > also interesting to note how relatively unscathed it is, too, afterwards. Yes, but was it on LPG? Oops - wrong group. :-p SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace. I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >In aus.cars Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Yes, but was it on LPG? Oops - wrong group. :-p I have actually seen a Robin with, apparently, an LPG conversion. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination - we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994) > I have actually seen a Robin with, apparently, an LPG conversion. What, did they just open the boot, aim the tank and knock the valve off? SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >> I have actually seen a Robin with, apparently, an LPG conversion. > >What, did they just open the boot, aim the tank and knock the valve off? hehe. I dunno. all I saw was a gas filler on the outside back. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be brief that I become obscure) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25 >> <Snipped antipodean racist shite> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the accelerator pedal was the tacho. It was a slow, expensive, unreliable > piece of sh.t. But hey, defend it all you want. If you want to rubbish British motor engineering using Reliant as an example, you are inviting them to bring up the Lightburn Zeta as an example of Australian engineering. Most Australians would prefer to forget it. JD > http://youtube.com/watch?v=FpztVxOtvQw&search=Top%20Gear LOL, the panels flexed then looked "good as new" once the car stopped rolling. The bonnet even closed itself. LOL > The most important issue for me and my family is, why did this > accident happen? Furthermore, what will stop it happening again? Bolts vibrating loose are definitely a fact of life on vehicles used on rough roads. The lack of inspection of this item is less LR's fault and more a side effect of the f.cked up Australian system of having no periodic vehicle safety inspections. If you had a system like the UK or NZ where the MOT/WOF checked such items it is unlikely that the problem would have occurred. As you don't it might be worth investing a bit of money in getting a reputable mechanic to have a regular look under/around the vehicle at items that are not normally part of routine servicing. SignatureEMB > money in getting a reputable mechanic to have a regular look > under/around the vehicle at items that are not normally part of routine > servicing. That *IS* part of regular servicing by dealers and dealers do have a problem with the wage they pay to competent mechanics. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > > money in getting a reputable mechanic to have a regular look > > under/around the vehicle at items that are not normally part of routine [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It's more fun to insult everyone. > http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html Land Rover have taken responsibility, and although they've acknowledged they do not check these bolts when servicing, one could infer they should have. Otherwise they'd treat the matter like a punctured tyre--owner's responsibility. >>>money in getting a reputable mechanic to have a regular look >>>under/around the vehicle at items that are not normally part of routine [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > should have. Otherwise they'd treat the matter like a punctured > tyre--owner's responsibility. Good result. How much yelling was needed to get them to cooperate? Daryl > Good result. > How much yelling was needed to get them to cooperate? > > Daryl A hell of a lot! > > Good result. > > How much yelling was needed to get them to cooperate? > > > > Daryl > > A hell of a lot! Don't you mean A HELL OF A LOT!!! ?? It's nice to see a happy ending but would you buy another? Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > Don't you mean A HELL OF A LOT!!! ?? > It's nice to see a happy ending but would you buy another? Yes, that's what I meant. Would I buy another?--NO! |
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