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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / May 2004Lightweight 4x4, flip down windshield
I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think about. The reason I want the flip down windshield is for nature photography. That aspect of the vehicle is NOT negotiable. I'd appreciate opinions, T.I.A.  Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) ================================= > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the > flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think > about. Do Samurais have them? I thought so, but I'm not sure. http://home.off-road.com/~reilly/moab2000_11.jpg Here's another possibility. It isn't a 4x4, and won't go the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly versatile: http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg Hello David, Thanks for the response. (read on below ... ) ================================= >> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow >> behind an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Do Samurais have them? I thought so, but I'm not sure. > http://home.off-road.com/~reilly/moab2000_11.jpg ================================= I couldn't say. I'll try a search to see. (btw: if the rig in this pic isn't broken, it must be the mechanical equivalent to a contortionist ;-) ================================= > Here's another possibility. It isn't a 4x4, and won't go > the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly > versatile: > http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg ================================= Hmm ... Interesting idea, but the thing about 4x4 that appeals to me is the ability to crawl. My experience with 2x4 has been it requires 'balls to the wall' driving to get through tough sections of the trail. Be Well, Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) ================================= Hello David (again!) Read on below ... ================================= > Hello David, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Be Well, ================================= The Suzuki Samarai's of 1983 & 1984 appear to be the only models that featured the flip down windshield. I found pictures of some long wheel base versions that look to have this feature. Alas, all those pictured were European models. I'm guessing they weren't sold in the USA. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) ================================= > ================================= > The Suzuki Samarai's of 1983 & 1984 appear to be the only > models that featured the flip down windshield. I found > pictures of some long wheel base versions that look to have > this feature. Alas, all those pictured were European models. > I'm guessing they weren't sold in the USA. Oh well, guess I struck out on that one. The Thing seems like an ideal light utility vehicle to tow behind a RV, and has the fold down, but not the 4x4. It always surprised me that they sold it that way, because that eliminates most of the market for that sort of vehicle. It's pretty similar to a 2WD vehicle the German army used during WWII. Anyway there were fewer small softroader choices in the 70s, so I guess VW could sell those Things. Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual, the wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a structural thing. Larry > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'd appreciate opinions, > T.I.A. >>I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind >>an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>I'd appreciate opinions, >>T.I.A. ================================= > Not sure if this would make a difference but according to > the manual, the wrangler with the window down shouldn't > be driven over 10 mph. Its a structural thing. > > Larry ================================= Thanks Larry, That shouldn't be an issue for me. Most of the time I'm in the 'hunt' mode and slow driving is the rule. That's good information though. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= Seriously???? I have the owners manual for mine and don't remember seeing that anywhere. It for 'sure' isn't a structural thing. LOL! The Jeeps run with the doors off and no top and can twist themselves up or 'ramp' as they call it like that Sami in the other post. I personally have driven at 60 mph in mine with the top and doors off and windshield down. It was uncomfortable so I slowed down to 50 and just let folks pass me. I was bush running and needed to go for a gas and beer run so just went as is. We were wearing glasses. My CJ7 is now totally fiberglass except for a steel windshield frame and that is only steel to hold the lift from a soft top. I have a 'glass one and it is only good for the hardtop or no top running. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual, the > wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Poway, California (San Diego Co.) > > ================================= It is on page 89 in my owners manual for a 99 TJ. [quote] "The fold down windshield and removeable side bars on your jeep vehicle are structural elements that can provide some protection in some accidents. " "Do not drive your Jeep vehicle on-pavement with the windshield down and the side bars removed as you lose the protection these structural elements can provide." "If required for certain off-pavement uses, the side bars can be removed and the windshield folded down. However, the protection afforded by these features is then lost. If you remove the side bars and fold down the windshield, drive slowly and cautiously. Jeep engineers recommend that the speed of the vehicle be limited to 10 mph (16 Km/h), with the low range preferred, if you are driving off-pavement with the windshield folded down." [end of quote] Larry > Seriously???? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > Poway, California (San Diego Co.) > > > ================================= I can see that. The lawyers at work... I can also see some protection from the sport bars in the event of a roll over. I also know that tree branches can be dangerous if you are the passenger with a 16 year old driving who has a warped sense of humor.... The older Jeeps didn't have the front bars. So I sort of think of them as a minimal add on. Structurally they are very weak, but will sure keep a branch off your head. I have been smucked a few times by branches riding up over the windshield and flipping down onto my head. That side bar would have stopped that. Mike > It is on page 89 in my owners manual for a 99 > TJ. [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > > > Poway, California (San Diego Co.) > > > > ================================= in rec.autos.4x4, "David" <my_usenet_acct@hotmail.com> wrote: >> I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind >> an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >go the everywhere the Samurai will, but it's fairly versatile: > http://members.rogers.com/volksrus/images/mrocchi3.jpg Yep, you could do it with an Sami, or the LJ's or the SJ's. You may need to replace a solid mount with a hindge, and remove a few other little trim stuff. ~Brian No, I don't think there is a structural thing about the windshild being up or down, not 100% sure what you call a "wrangler" but CJ5's and CJ7's don't have anything attached to the windshield that could be called structural. It's more of a over 10 mpg you need goggles :) ~Brian in rec.autos.4x4, "Larry Greenwood" <greenwoo@minotstateu.edu> wrote: >Not sure if this would make a difference but according to the manual, the >wrangler with the window down shouldn't be driven over 10 mph. Its a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> I'd appreciate opinions, >> T.I.A. : I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind : an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the : flip down windshields. Are there any others I should think : about. The IH Scout 80/800's had a flip down windshield (note: I did NOT say Scout II!). Don't consider one before '64, when they received the marvel of modern times: a crankdown window in the door! (earlier ones had horizontal sliding windows. Gag!) However, lightweight they are NOT. But then, you are including older 'cruisers in you list, and I would not consider them "lightweight" either. :-) Downsides - 152 cu. in. I-4 meant that, wiht a howling tailwind, and a 60 degree slope, you MAY hit 60 mph. On a good day. Maybe. Removable doors. Removable top. No seat belts. VACCUM OPERATED WIPERS! IH was not known to use "light" and "weight" adjacent to each other. Drop frame means you can get high-centered on some inocculous things. If it has a generator, install an alternator! Upsides - Removeable door. Removable top. No seat belts (you can't get ticketed if the vehicle never had 'em!), no creature comforts, except for a heater that would bake your left foot. Simple. IH was not known to use "light" and "weight" adjacent to each other. Did I mention "simple"? Fairly inexpensive today. Parts are still available. Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes > : I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind > : an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Bruce ================================= Hello Bruce (and other friends), That *IS* an option I hadn't heard before. Of all the suggestions thus far, the Samurai would seem to be the lightest of the 4WD's, but the downside there, is that the flip-down windshield (on US models) was only delivered in '83 & '84. Someone mentioned a kit to adapt the Samurai windshield, and THAT does interest me. Another downside might be the rap about them being tippy. The 'Thing' might be the lightest, but alas it isn't 4WD. If I give less consideration to the weight, the Jeep 'Wrangler' style rigs (sorry, I haven't figured out what initials there are ... CJ, YJ, ??) seem to be a popular choice. The short wheelbase Land Crunchers could work too. Now the IH idea might fit with these, but I think there might be more company in the Toyota and Jeep camps. Anybody know where I can get weight figures for any of the above rigs? Again, T.I.A. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= hello the problem about the SJ being tippy is rubbish, what it is is that when they came out ppl who bought the sj would drive them like a normal car so yes if u were going 60mph and turned VERY sharp it might tip over but if u understand that they CAN NOT BE driven like this then u will be fine. U can also get wheel spacers etc etc. some 4x4 sites that might help you http://www.izook.com/ http://www.off-road.com/toc/ http://www.rocky-road.com/ hope this helps james > > : I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind > > : an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Again, T.I.A. Howdy Jack, Not light weight but the windshield folds down. Unimogs!¡ Frank X. Morris http://community.webtv.net/Sulkhalil/SalukiCornerChime > Howdy Jack, > Not light weight but the windshield folds down. Unimogs!¡ > > Frank X. Morris > http://community.webtv.net/Sulkhalil/SalukiCornerChime Ummm Frank, You may have had a different link in mind. Nothing but hound on that page ;-) Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= : Anybody know where I can get weight figures for : any of the above rigs? Try: www.lcool.org/ (Land Cruisers Owners) www.off-road.com/~jweed/ (IH & Scout Home Page) www.bumperbooks.com/id115.htm (Jeep Owners manuals) Bruce Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes Hello Bruce, I tried your links, but ... ================================= > : Anybody know where I can get weight figures for > : any of the above rigs? > : > Try: > > www.lcool.org/ (Land Cruisers Owners) ================================= No FJ40's seem to be featured here. I guess if I joined their forum someone might know and tell me. ================================= > www.off-road.com/~jweed/ (IH & Scout Home Page) ================================= Maybe I'm just lazy or slow, but I couldn't find info on weights here and the IH category seems to be about Scouts. ================================= > www.bumperbooks.com/id115.htm (Jeep Owners manuals) ================================= Good place to locate a manual to buy, but not to read. Seems mostly linked to eBay. ================================= > Bruce ================================= My research from here out will be limited to the Samurai. I committed to one this afternoon. I'll go to the bank for cash tomorrow and consummate the deal. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= in rec.autos.4x4, >the suggestions thus far, the Samurai would seem >to be the lightest of the 4WD's, but the downside [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and THAT does interest me. Another downside might >be the rap about them being tippy. Tippy? Na, it depends if you try and tip it or not.... http://www.island4x4.com/temppic/floplj1.jpg Check out that angle... It went about 20 feet before going for a nice flop :) About the Sami's, if I remember right, there is two supports that go over the doors to the windshield, they are the top of the door seal, and the top of the windshield supports, if you take out those, and put a hindge where the solid mount is at the bottom of the windshield, it easly folds. With a little bit of work on making something to take the bolts on and off quick and easy, you would be off the the races.... ~Brian > I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind > an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I'd appreciate opinions, It's too bad that it's 2004. 30 years ago you could have found your "wish" in the local paper's ads. Almost all the old small 4x4s had flipdown windshieldsback then ; even the "original Ford Bronco" could be optioned that way. Back then; I built/owned a Jeep M38A1 (military version of the CJ5) . >>I'm in the market for a used 4x4. I'm looking to tow behind >>an RV. I know Wranglers and older Land Cruisers have the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Back then; I built/owned a Jeep M38A1 (military version of the CJ5) > . ================================= Well, the '88.5 Samurai that I bought, has undergone quite a metamorphosis since I got it. I hooked up to Petroworks <http://petroworks.com/> (just up the road a piece in Fallbrook, CA). They did the 'Spring over axle lift' for me, did the GRS-II transfer case, and put on 31" x 10" tires. Later, I added full armor (skid plate, pumpkin covers, and Rock Slider bars under the doors). I also had a front bumper made out to 1.5" tubing. I have a few more tweaks in mind, but it's shaping up to a rig-to-my-suiting. Signature-- Jack -- ================================= Everything you see is temporary. ================================= Clean Up Return Address To Reply ================================= Poway, California (San Diego Co.) N 32° 57' W 117° 04' At 508' Elevation ================================= |
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