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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / 4x4 Cars / June 2007R12 Topping Off
I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a gauge necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal low-side, high-side pressure ranges? Yes, you're going to need gauges to do it properly. And unless you're a certified A/C tech, most likely you're not going to be able to get hold of any R-12..  SignatureRobert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so > the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a gauge > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? R-12 is easy to get. > Yes, you're going to need gauges to do it properly. And unless you're a > certified A/C tech, most likely you're not going to be able to get hold of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? Get caught by a local EPA agent: You'll say dick is easy to get in federal prison too! Refinish King > R-12 is easy to get. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > > > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? ||Get caught by a local EPA agent: It would be a lot harder to find an EPA field enforcement agent, much less one that is interested in a DIY guy buying 3 cans of "contraband" from an individual. It's not even on their radar screen. I have never heard of any prosecution from this law, ever. Texas Parts Guy Come to the Island: Northumberland County Pennsylvania. Where they will prosecute you for wearing pants "Gangsta" style. (Not that I think that's a bad reason to prosecute for!) But out here, They'll prosecute you for farting! Air pollution! Unless you're on the correct political parties registration list! Refinish King > ||Get caught by a local EPA agent: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > prosecution from this law, ever. > Texas Parts Guy I thought I have heard recently that you can buy R12 almost anywhere is US? > R-12 is easy to get. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > > > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? > I thought I have heard recently that you can buy R12 almost anywhere is US? "almost" anywhere?? No, you can buy it ANYWHERE in the US, as long as you have an EPA card. Any of the popular chain auto parts stores have it in stock, just show them your card! As for getting it without a card, I am sure that is possible to, but not legal. Greg Are you EPA licensed? Sure you can! If not, no you can't! Refinish King > I thought I have heard recently that you can buy R12 almost anywhere is US? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > > > > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? One more question! What is size of the can or container available to choose from and the price range? Thanks for your help! > Are you EPA licensed? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > normal > > > > > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? >Yes, you're going to need gauges to do it properly. And unless you're a >certified A/C tech, most likely you're not going to be able to get hold of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal >> low-side, high-side pressure ranges? R-12 down in florida is pricey like a hundred $$$, I don't know for sure I have 134-a in all my trucks I Converted Its cheaper but not colder Shop manual goes by condenser inlet temps vs. evap. outlet temps. If you put a gauge on the low side you'll see at what pressure the low side cutout comes on. I think it's about 25 lbs. (going on memory, my brother owns my '89 S Blazer now). Basically if you charge it enough so the low side cutoff doesn't kick in it will have enough in it to cool OK. With the motor revs up to 2-3k make sure the low side doesn't doesn't pull down enough to trip the low side cutoff. I usually go 10lbs over the cutout pressure with good results. It should be a warm day when doing it this way, at least over 75 F . That's how I quickie charge auto systems, 'specially the ones I have no specs for. SignatureJohn "anything you say can & will be misquoted & used against you" '01 FLHR ''Red" '04 MXZ 600ho '99 XC700 BRC mem > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so > the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a gauge > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? if its cycling on n off u mite want to check your low press. switch mite be faulty ..or a bad connection ...just my 2¢ if its cycling on n off u mite want to check your low press. switch mite be faulty ..or a bad connection ...just my 2¢ > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's > low on R12 so the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top > it off with R12. Is a gauge necessary or can I just play it > "by air". Try the forums at www.aircondition.com, a place dedicated to car A/C. People who know better than me are going to hate what I'm about to say, but if nothing else is wrong with the A/C you can get the R-12 charge about right if you monitor the inlet and outlet pipe temperatures of the evaporator while the engine runs at fast idle (must be fast, and run the engine at least 10 minutes before charging) and you slowly (emphasis on "slowly") put in R-12 until the outlet is almost as cold as the inlet. Ideally they should be equal, but it's safer to undercharge than overcharge. > Where can I find the normal low-side, high-side pressure ranges? Any car repair manual that covers GM vehicles since they went to orfice tubes? How would I know what type my vehicle currently uses? Does it say on the A/C unit? Is there a certain year it switched over? I currently own a 98 s-blazer & 98 K1500. Would these use the R12 or the 134? Dave > > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's > > low on R12 so the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Any car repair manual that covers GM vehicles since they went to > orfice tubes? > How would I know what type my vehicle currently uses? Does it say on the > A/C unit? Is there a certain year it switched over? I currently own a 98 > s-blazer & 98 K1500. Would these use the R12 or the 134? All '94-up vehicles in North America use R134a. The refrigerant and oil are called out on the A/C information plate or decal, located near the front of the engine compartment and/or on the compressor body. -Stern Thanks Dave > > How would I know what type my vehicle currently uses? Does it say on the > > A/C unit? Is there a certain year it switched over? I currently own a 98 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -Stern Actually, 94/95 was the change-over. My 94 Jimmy used R-12... >> How would I know what type my vehicle currently uses? Does it say on the >> A/C unit? Is there a certain year it switched over? I currently own a 98 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >-Stern > Actually, 94/95 was the change-over. My 94 Jimmy used R-12... Actually, '93 was the first year some vehicles came from the factory with R134a, and in '94 they all did. I think you're misremembering your '94 Jimmy. -Stern Nope, Mike is 100 percent correct. The 94 S series Blazer and Jimmy were R-12, takes 2.5 pounds to charge from empty. However the 94 S Pickups were 134A. The Blazers were still the old body style. This topic came up before and I had to put pictures of the compressor in my wifes 94 online before anyone would believe it. http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4080238&a=30780228&f= 95 and up should all be 134 A though. SignatureSteve Williams Near Cooperstown NY > > Actually, 94/95 was the change-over. My 94 Jimmy used R-12... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -Stern >Nope, > Mike is 100 percent correct. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4080238&a=30780228&f= >95 and up should all be 134 A though. Thank you. I also happen to have a pic of the compressor on that old truck floating around, for the same reason. >> Actually, 94/95 was the change-over. My 94 Jimmy used R-12... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >-Stern Not according to my shop. I also distinctly remember the compressor saying R-12 on it. They agreed with the compressor, said that in order to diagnose/repair the system when I had a problem with it it had to be converted so they could ensure it had a full charge, they had no R-12 left. Turns out all I had to replace was a pressure switch, but that's beside the point... > How would I know what type my vehicle currently uses? Does it say on the > A/C unit? Is there a certain year it switched over? I currently own a 98 > s-blazer & 98 K1500. Would these use the R12 or the 134? There should be a tag on the compressor, if it's still original, showing the factory charge, or possibly on the receiver/dryer. If it has been converted by a shop there should be a label somewhere showing that as well. > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 ...because it's got the GM R4 compressor that loses shaft seals on a regular basis. R12 is available, but expensive, and top-up charges will not last. You will very quickly spend a lot more in R12 (to say nothing of tools and manuals to put it in properly) than to fix the problem correctly. -Stern Back when 12 or 14 ounce cans of R12 were less than $2 each and nobody worried about the ozone layer I would add refrigerant until it started blowing cool air and then add one more can. > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so > the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a gauge > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? SignatureWhen replying by Email include NewSGrouP (case sensitive) in Subject Mike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so > the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a gauge > necessary or can I just play it "by air". Where can I find the normal > low-side, high-side pressure ranges? Just out of curiosity, how much are you going to pay for a can of R12 ? Your gauges should read somewhere around 30 on the low, 250 on the high at high idle. This all depends on the temp outside and the condition of the compressor and the rest of the system. Feel the outlet (large) tube from the evap to see ifs it cold, it will be when its full (if everything is good). If for instance the expansion tube is plugged, you will probably blow up a high side line while trying to get it cold. If it doesnt start to cool after one can, be afraid :)Again, how much are you going to pay for a can of R12? Around $20/can... I figure if it lasts the season then that aint too bad! > > I have a 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer that blows out warm A/C. It's low on R12 so > > the compressor just cycles on/off. I'm gonna top it off with R12. Is a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > high side line while trying to get it cold. If it doesnt start to cool after > one can, be afraid :)Again, how much are you going to pay for a can of R12? > Around $20/can... I figure if it lasts the season then that aint too bad! Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? >>Around $20/can... I figure if it lasts the season then that aint too bad! > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? Try ebay > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? $10 to $25/can is the going rate. -Stern > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? > > $10 to $25/can is the going rate. > > -Stern That's dirt cheap.. why are so many people recommending everyone convert to R134a if R12 is that cheap. Sounds kinda silly to me. > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? > > $10 to $25/can is the going rate. > > -Stern Show me a legitimate source where I can buy R-12 (in the US) for $10 a can and I'd gladly pay you a nice finders fee. Bob > > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and I'd gladly pay you a nice finders fee. > Bob Most Ebay sellers that sell R12 are legitimate. Just about all of them require you supply a copy of your EPA card before they will ship it this is right in the description. And also these days a lot of brick-and-mortar stores are selling on Ebay and more and more are signing on every day. Where have you been? Ted Just to throw my 2cents in...in Austin at A-Line Auto parts a 12 ounce can goes for $44.95/can. You have to have an IMAC (?) license and a city license as well to purchase it. I'm not a mechanic, I just called to see what the cost and licensing requirements were for fun...OUCH!!! $45 a can? Wow! I think I heard that in Mexico it's a BUNCH cheaper...go figure. > > > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Ted > > > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Ted They may very well be legitimate but they aren't selling it for $10 a can either. Like I said, if I could find some for that price I'd be all over it. From what I've seen you would be lucky to buy it for twice that. Bob > They may very well be legitimate but they aren't selling it for $10 a can > either. Like I said, if I could find some for that price I'd be all over it. > From what I've seen you would be lucky to buy it for twice that. > Bob You aren't looking very hard then. Here's a $15 can that didn't get sold: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2478959794&ca tegory=46094 Here's a $15 can that did get sold: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2478959584&ca tegory=46094 here's another: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479006246&ca tegory=46094 Here's 2 cans that went for $22 for the set: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2479102481&ca tegory=46094 Also, if you wait for the wintertime, the stuff gets a lot cheaper on Ebay. Keep in mind that when the EPA announced they were going to prohibit OTC sales of R12, the stuff was selling for something like $4.95 a can, and a whole lot of people figured the stuff would shoot up to 10-20 times this price, so a whole lot of people ran out and bought cases of the stuff from the local auto parts places and stuck them in the back of the garage, expecting to make a killing. Then later on when those people had A/C in cars that failed, they tried bringing in their cans to the A/C places and found the A/C shops wouldn't fix their vehicles unless they used their own freon. So the stuff sat. Now the stuff is almost worthless because the DIY'ers are buying Freeze 12 over the counter and the A/C places want to buy R12 in tanks, and don't give a crap about the cost since they just pass the cost on to their customers. Every summer it's the same thing - as soon as it starts getting hot for a few months then the R12 can sales pick up on Ebay for a while, then after the hot season the market slumps again. Ted > > Around $20/can... I figure if it lasts the season then that aint too bad! > > Where the hell are you getting R-12 for $20/can? Dreamland? I bought a 12oz, (size?), for $18 and change at Checker Auto a while back! Greg |
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