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Car Forum / Acura Cars / January 2005Sedans - Infiniti G35 vs. Acura 3.2 TL vs. Lexus IS300
I'm shopping around for a car. So far, I've been considering the following: - Infiniti G35 (4 Dr STD AWD Sedan) - Acura TL (4 Dr 3.2 Sedan) - Lexus IS 300 (4 Dr STD Sedan) Any opinions and/or other recommendations? Also, I've heard that there are websites where buyers can enter the specifics of the car (make, model, options, color, etc.) that they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. Anyone know about this? > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > that they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it > for them. Anyone know about this? How about the Toyota Avalon, have you considered this, and even the Nissan Maxima? Both have been rated as very reliable by Consumer Reports. Good thing they still don't make Yugo's or maybe that should be on the list as well...... Go with the Acura. Drive them all and you'll see no comparison. Carl > > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > How about the Toyota Avalon, have you considered this, and even the Nissan > Maxima? Both have been rated as very reliable by Consumer Reports. >>I'm shopping around for a car. So far, >>I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > How about the Toyota Avalon, have you considered this, and even the Nissan > Maxima? Both have been rated as very reliable by Consumer Reports. The Avalon is for people who find a Buick Century to be threateningly racy. >> How about the Toyota Avalon, have you considered this, and even the Nissan >> Maxima? Both have been rated as very reliable by Consumer Reports. >> >The Avalon is for people who find a Buick Century to be threateningly racy. And for those who think that the Ford Crown Victoria is too harsh-riding and nimble.  SignatureDan Drake >> I'm shopping around for a car. So far, >> I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > How about the Toyota Avalon, have you considered this, and even the Nissan > Maxima? Both have been rated as very reliable by Consumer Reports. The GPS on the Avalon use a hand held remote control, I'm not making that up they really use a hand held remote, it's the most dangerous thing I've ever seen in a car. >I'm shopping around for a car. So far, >I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. >Anyone know about this? Lexus is for whimps and really old people, and the Infiniti is for people with no taste in cars. I would definitely go for the Acura. (hehe) -- I put 2 and 2 together and got 22. > >I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > >I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Lexus is for whimps and really old people, and the Infiniti is for > people with no taste in cars. I would definitely go for the Acura. Lexus is for people with enough brains to purchase a vehicle made by the manufacturer that has consistently had THE BEST quality ratings in the world over the past decade or more. Sure they've had some transmission lag issues with certain models. Sure they've had some other quality issues. But when you compare the quality of the 'average' Lexus vehicle against the quality of the 'average' vehicle from ALL of their competitors, Lexus wins hands down my friend. Lastly, Lexus resale values are second to none these days. Now, for the original question. I think that the TL's body style looks the best out of the three vehicles that you are shopping. Also, I believe that it has the best interior quality and style. However, by my definition, the IS300 handles better than the TL or the G35. And I prefer the IS300's brakes over the competition too. I would be willing to bet that the initial build quality of the IS300 is the best of the three--and its downstream reliability would be superior as well. Some *minor* complaints that I have with my own IS300 are: -Small rear seat (Not that big of a deal since it's usually just my wife and I riding in it) -Prop rod for hood support (Again, not a major problem) -Space-invading gooseneck trunk lid hinges -Average gas mileage guage is pretty much worthless (This guage should be replaced with something that is actually useful) -Fuel economy is not good at all for an engine of its displacement Other than these minor issues, the vehicle has been letter perfect. Not a single quality issue since purchasing the vehicle almost three years ago. J. Perry > Now, for the original question. I think that the TL's body style looks the > best out of the three vehicles that you are shopping. Also, I believe that [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > J. Perry I've had an IS300 manual transmission for 3 years and second all the good and bad points. The quality is fantastic and the handling is great. Lexus did keep costs down by doing things like the prop rod hood and gooseneck hinges on the trunk. The 3-liter 6 is basically the same one Toyota put in the Supra 10+ years ago. It is very smooth (you almost have to look at the tach when the engine's idling to be sure it's still running), and very rugged (it's cast iron and in racing trim is easily capable of putting out 600 horses while still maintaining reliability). However at 215 hp it's a bit less powerful than the competition and gets only fair mileage to boot. I see the IS's competition not as other Japanese cars, but rather as the 3-series BMW. I looked at a 330 but decided that although the BMW did a better job with the "little" things (hood and trunk have gas struts, interior is a bit nicer), it was $5000 more expensive, and just not worth it. Throw in crappy German reliability and the choice was easy. There was no G35 or TL when I was shopping, but if there was I would have considered them as well. Love the detailed info ... thanks!!! About the prop rod, what's wrong with it? Or, is it missing one? > > >I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > > >I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > J. Perry > About the prop rod, what's wrong with it? The concept of a prop-rod is very cheap, very not-Lexus. Some things define the line between mainstream consumer Toyotas and higher end Lexuses. The hood support is, or should be, one of them. Lower end cars get prop rods. Higher end cars get hinges that stay on their own. But not the IS300, apparently. Even Lexus is cheapening out. > > About the prop rod, what's wrong with it? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But not the IS300, apparently. Even Lexus is cheapening out. Hinge lifts and gas struts fail. All of them. Prop rods aren't just infinitely reliable, they're elegant. No need to overengineer the issue. Dave > Hinge lifts and gas struts fail. All of them. > > Prop rods aren't just infinitely reliable, they're elegant. No need to > overengineer the issue. > > Dave I have had bad experiences with both in wind. Struts and springs are susceptible to being overpowered by wind trying to close the hood, but prop rods can be released by wind catching under the hood, then bringing the hood down with great force. A couple years ago I had a near miss when a prop rod let go while I was bending toward the engine compartment, and the corner of the hood hit the bridge of my glasses and snatched them off my face. If I had been a quarter inch closer it would have gouged my face to the bone from forehead to nose; if I had been two inches closer the corner of the hood would have penetrated the top of my skull. I think it is time to at least adequately engineer the issue. Mike >> Hinge lifts and gas struts fail. All of them. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Mike Dont prop rods have an "s" hook on them to prevent uplift? My Frontier does and it restrains the hood from going up or down. Also, wasn't that a "near hit"? :> SignatureRob Munach, PE Excel Engineering PO Box 1264 Carrboro, NC 27510 >>> Hinge lifts and gas struts fail. All of them. >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Also, wasn't that a "near hit"? :> My daughter's '93 Honda Accord has just a plastic knob on the end. My son's '94 Integra has an S end. Must be a hit-or-miss thing. Mike Based on the input that I've received so far, it's now down to either the Acura or the Lexus. The Lexus is still under consideration since two mechanics (from Porsche shops) picked it. I think they like the rear-wheel drive of the Lexus even though it has only 215 hp compared to Acura's 270 hp. Also, Lexus has a good reputation for quality and reliability. Between Acura and Lexus, which would be more costly to maintain? And, which would be more costly to insure? Some actual numbers would be much appreciated. > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. > Anyone know about this? > Between Acura and Lexus, which would be more costly to > maintain? And, which would be more costly to insure? > Some actual numbers would be much appreciated. I can't imagine that the maintenance cost of these two cars would be THAT different. Drive them both and buy the one that inspires you. > Based on the input that I've received so far, > it's now down to either the Acura or the Lexus. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > maintain? And, which would be more costly to insure? > Some actual numbers would be much appreciated. For insurance, get a quote from your provider. Every state and provider is different. As far as HP goes, consider both city fuel mileage and actual 0-60 times and quarter mile times. (You might have to google.com for them, but they do exist). There is a lot more to a car's performance than the HP number. The Lexus and Acura dealers are high on fluff, cost, and lower on value when it comes to service. If you ask them to change your blinker fluid, they probably would 'do' it, charge $150, keep the car for a day, and give you a courtesy rental and a mint on the seat. In other words, they give you a little pampering to disguise the fact their prices are way inflated. The 30k, 60k service packages are exorbitant in both cases. The biggest factor in service cost is probably how down-to-earth your local dealer is. Dave > For insurance, get a quote from your provider. Every state and provider > is different. Just called ... and insurance is about the same for Acura and Lexus, with the Lexus being slightly higher (by ~$20 for 6 months). BTW, I currently have the following insurance coverage: bodily: $250,000 / $500,000 (Too high?) property: $100,000 medical: $5,000 (Too high?) uninsured/underinsured: $30,000 / $60,000 (Do I want this at all?) comprehensive: $500 collision: $500 For someone who hasn't caused (or gotten into) an accident in the past ten years, is this too much coverage? If so, what is recommended? > As far as HP goes, consider both city fuel mileage and actual 0-60 times > and quarter mile times. (You might have to google.com for them, but they do > exist). There is a lot more to a car's performance than the HP number. The Acura seems to have better fuel economy. City/hwy: 18/25 (manual Lexus) vs. 20/28 (automatic Acura). 0-to-60: 7.3 sec (Lexus) vs. 5.8 sec (Acura) 1/4-mile: ??? but slower I'm sure (Lexus) vs. 14.4 sec @ 99 mph (Acura) The TL wins on performance and fuel efficiency. I've read about transmission problems with the TL. Is that with the automatic only? And, has the problem been fixed? > The Lexus and Acura dealers are high on fluff, cost, and lower on value > when it comes to service. If you ask them to change your blinker fluid, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 30k, 60k service packages are exorbitant in both cases. The biggest factor > in service cost is probably how down-to-earth your local dealer is. Yeah, dealers make my head ache. Unless it's a bad idea, I was thinking of using a reputable shop (that worked on my 1986 Acura Integra when I still had it in the 90s) after getting either the Lexus or Acura. > BTW, I currently have the following insurance coverage: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the past ten years, is this too much coverage? If so, > what is recommended? That depends on whether you have anything of value--like a house--that you wouldn't want to lose in a lawsuit. I have $500,000/$1,000,000 bodily injury plus a $3,000,000 umbrella policy and am thinking of increasing it. Not because I have $3,000,000 someone could come and get, but because if a judgement exceeded $3,000,000 then they could come and get what I do have and at my age (69) it's too late to start over. Ten years without an accident is nothing, by the way. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. "John Varela" <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-OWrgzhTuE9dm@dialup-> Ten years without an accident is nothing, by the way. My wife has never had an accident (except being hit from behind at stop signals) in the 30 years she has been driving. It's been a couple years longer for me, but I had two in my first years. Mike Okay, you win. ;) > "John Varela" <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-OWrgzhTuE9dm@dialup-> Ten years without an accident is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike > "John Varela" <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-OWrgzhTuE9dm@dialup-> Ten years without an accident [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike I've always wondered about people who get hit from behind. I knew a guy in HS that was rear-ended 5 times, twice at the same intersection. never his fault. But he just seemed to have this magnet. now a neighbor's kid has the same prob. Has a nice vintage 1960's car and that thing has been rear ended 4 times now at a stoplight. All times, he was sitting at a red light and bam! Weird. > now a neighbor's kid has the same prob. Has a nice vintage 1960's car and > that thing has been rear ended 4 times now at a stoplight. All times, he > was sitting at a red light and bam! Assuming the kid isn't making sudden stops, it could be that those center brake lights are a hazard for cars that *don't* have them. The approaching driver expects to see the center brake light and doesn't notice the tail lights--besides which, the brake lights on 60s cars were generally smaller and less bright than on today's cars. Also, some cars just seem to attract trouble. In the 1960s I had a VW Beetle and people were always hitting the rear fenders. I'd leave my car in a parking lot and return to find the fender dented. It seemed that people weren't able to judge where the fender was. It wasn't just my car: I noticed a lot of other Beetles with dented rear fenders. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. >--besides which, the brake lights on 60s cars were generally smaller and >less bright than on today's cars. Today's drivers are also less bright. -- I put 2 and 2 together and got 22. I would say that over 75 % of rearend collisions are caused by or greatly contributed to the person in front stopping too fast. Whe I stop, I keep a good distance in front of me & look in my rear view mirror to avoid being rearended. Almost was coming home from work. I was watching the guy approach me & I moved slightly to the right & saw him suddenly veer to the left. If I wasn't driving defensively then, I would've had my 6 month old TL smashed up. >>--besides which, the brake lights on 60s cars were generally smaller and >>less bright than on today's cars. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > I put 2 and 2 together and got 22. Not true, it's mostly inattention of the person behind you that causes rearend. I was waiting at a light to change from Red to Green and the guy jumped the gun and hit me. Another one was when a tractor trailor in traffic said he didn't see my car because the sun was too bright, although I saw him talking on his CB when he hit me and thereafter when I came out of the car. He wasn't even inclined to come out and check to see if I'm ok. Too bad for non at fault accidents we have here in Ontario, I would have sued him big time. >I would say that over 75 % of rearend collisions are caused by or greatly >contributed to the person in front stopping too fast. Whe I stop, I keep a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> -- >> I put 2 and 2 together and got 22. >I would say that over 75 % of rearend collisions are caused by or greatly >contributed to the person in front stopping too fast. Whe I stop, I keep a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If I wasn't driving defensively then, I would've had my 6 month old TL > smashed up. Some are, but there is no such thing as "stopping too fast" under traffic laws. I have only been rear-ended once; I was sitting at the red light for some time. The guy in the rental car admitted he just wasn't paying attention. My wife was paused at a 4-way stop the last time she was hit. A drunk never even touched the brakes, according to witnesses. But it seems most of the ones I see (mainly after the fact) are in the middle of the road, when traffic slowed but the last guy didn't. Following too closely certainly contributes to the toll. You can see it on the freeway, when a chain of fools slows a little bit at the front and the lack of reaction time builds it to a panic stop before it gets to the back. Mike On 12/17/2004 10:14 AM US(ET), Michael Pardee took fingers to keys, and typed the following: > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Mike Here's another one. Two cars stopped at a stop sign waiting for a gap in traffic to pull out. Both are looking down the road for the gap and estimating how fast to pull out when there is a gap coming up. The first guy starts to pull out. The second guy looks down the road to see if there is enough of a gap so he too can fit in, and seeing that it will be OK, starts to pull out. "Bang" The first guy had second thoughts and stopped. I was the second guy in that scenario. > Here's another one. Two cars stopped at a stop sign waiting for a gap in > traffic to pull out. Both are looking down the road for the gap and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stopped. > I was the second guy in that scenario. Some 30 years ago my wife was the first person in exactly that scenario, except that the situation was pulling out of a parking lot instead of at a stop sign and the guy in the rear car was driving his newly restored Jaguar XK120 convertible. He was brokenhearted and she really felt guilty about it. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. >> Here's another one. Two cars stopped at a stop sign waiting for a gap in >> traffic to pull out. Both are looking down the road for the gap and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >stop sign and the guy in the rear car was driving his newly restored Jaguar >XK120 convertible. He was brokenhearted and she really felt guilty about it. One more: Traffic came to a stop at the highway exit and a small truck following me couldn't stop, avoided my car by passing me on the right and over a pile of hard snow. His truck slowed down and momentarily tilted enough to brake the rear windshield of the car just ahead of me. The truck driver was French the other English . The English was hugging the French and shouting "You save my life" !!! Doesn't make sense to me but it's true. He, involuntarily, saved MY life. Vlad Greetings and Salutations.... >> Here's another one. Two cars stopped at a stop sign waiting for a gap in >> traffic to pull out. Both are looking down the road for the gap and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >stop sign and the guy in the rear car was driving his newly restored Jaguar >XK120 convertible. He was brokenhearted and she really felt guilty about it. The fellow that taught me the most about driving pounded one rule into my head...that was "if you think you can just make it... you can't...so wait a bit longer". It does seem like the quality of drivers has dropped in the past decade...they seem to have far less understanding of physics and the forces involved in getting a couple thousand pounds of steel and plastic going...and perhaps more importantly...stopping. Perhaps we should try and get good driver's education back into high schools as a required subject? Regards Dave Mundt [cut] > The TL wins on performance and fuel efficiency. > > I've read about transmission problems with the TL. > Is that with the automatic only? And, has the problem been fixed? All the TL info you could want and more at tl.acurazine.com > The Lexus and Acura dealers are high on fluff, cost, and lower on value >when it comes to service. But my Acura dealer has fantastic coffee. Little individual pouches and all. -- I put 2 and 2 together and got 22. > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Any opinions and/or other recommendations? I've driven the TL and several of the G35's extensively. Tough choice, but the G35 was more fun while the TL was more luxurious. I would be totally satisfied with a G35 equipped with a six-speed transmission, but their automatic was okay too. G35 Coupe with Manual Transmission > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. > Anyone know about this? > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. > Anyone know about this? Hands down, Acura TL. I test drove one ( Seriously thinking about dumping my ES330 with the transmission lag issue) and the Acural TL drives like a BMW with the reliability of a Lexus... So best of both worlds... Dan J.S.: You have no idea what you are talking about. The TL has the same tranny issues as the previous gens as well as other F and F issues. The Lex and G will provide a much better dealer experience. A FWD will never handle like a RWD BMW. TL has a lot of HP but the torque is not up to par as the G. With the TL if you do pick up steam I hope you are on a smooth, straight road or torque-steer will decide where you are going to go.The IS is slow and boring and due for a refresh. The G (X) is the best choice. > > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ES330 with the transmission lag issue) and the Acural TL drives like a BMW > with the reliability of a Lexus... So best of both worlds... > Dan J.S.: > You have no idea what you are talking about. The TL has the same [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you are going to go.The IS is slow and boring and due for a refresh. > The G (X) is the best choice. I test drove the RL -- and that handles like a dream!! Lexus is ok, but the tranny issues are pissing me off. Did you actually go drive a BMW before you wrote that? Because what you wrote makes zero sense. It just "ain't so". > > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ES330 with the transmission lag issue) and the Acural TL drives like a BMW > with the reliability of a Lexus... So best of both worlds... I test drove the G35 sedan and the IS300 this summer. The G35 is a very nice fairly large sporty luxury sedan with a powerful engine, emphasis on the luxury, although some interior appointments detract from the luxury image. I think it is awkwardly styled. The IS is a sports sedan with a weak/poor mileage engine, excellent handling, a slightly stiff suspension and is on the small side. It's a boy-racer that needs another 50 hp to really work well. My guess is that the next iteration will get that power. The car books all say that the TL has too much power for FWD, you get torque steer, but is otherwise excellent. (I would not consider FWD on any sports sedan, so I never looked at it seriously.) If Honda put AWD on it, it would probably be the pick of the bunch. It's alooker, for sure. You might also consider a lightly used BMW 330i in this price range. Would have lots of warranty left, plenty of room inside, best handling of all of them, great resale, good looks, and ample power. With the new Bangleized 3-Series coming out soon, and sure to offend some BMW die-hards, it might even hold it's value better than before. About the only bad side would be the BMW image and less than Japanese reliability (although still good). Wait for the IS replacement and you might end up with the best of the bunch if Toyota gets serious about making a really great sports sedan. > I'm shopping around for a car. So far, > I've been considering the following: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > they are looking for and the system will be able to locate it for them. > Anyone know about this? > If Honda put AWD on it, >it would probably be the pick of the bunch. Or even RWD, to differentiate it from the Accord. And put a V8 into the RL. J. |
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