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Car Forum / Acura Cars / June 2006[1994 Integra GS-R] Hot Starting Problem
Greetings, all. I have the subject auto with 60K miles. A couple of times this year, the engine will not start after having been driven for some time and in warm conditions. Most recently, it failed to start after sitting in the sun for a couple of hours. It did eventually start after opening the doors (where I sat wondering if I should call for a tow) and thus my questions. As I mentioned, it did start and ran just fine. It exhibited conditions of being flooded, but is that possible with fuel injection? Is there the normal carburetor accelerator pump present in FI systems? The problem has not recurred. The engine starter was and did spin the engine the entire above event but it would not convert to the normal engine running. Engine is well maintained and not modified in any way. Use Chevron 93 octane fuel exclusively. A couple of opinions offered were: 1. Loosening the gas cap to allow gasoline vapors to equalize from having vaporized in the tank. Here it was suggested I replace the PCV valve. 2. A service person suggested a "main" relay was a known cause of hot starting (hot as in the passenger compartment) failures. Further this technician indicated this relay was underneath the drivers side steering wheel/instrument panel. Any comments or advice on where to look? I even attempted to simulate the same conditions by moving car from the cool garage to a direct sunlit day for several hours and tried (with instant success) to start engine. I do so dislike intermittent problems. Thanks in advance, PB > Greetings, all. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > PB I found this page: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#mainrelay It is a little fuzzy on whether a 1994 Acura was a possible candidate for this problem. Any comments? PB >> Greetings, all. >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > PB You found the link you were looking for. Yes, you have one of the infamous "main relays." And yes, the symptoms are classic for a bad main relay. In fact, I strongly recommend you either fix or replace the relay (see the link on that page for the fixing details) on suspicion. If you aren't having trouble with it yet you will soon. My son has a '94 Teg and has replaced his relay in the last year. He should be waking up in about 2 hours and I will pump him about location and any special access considerations. IIRC a new relay is about $70 US - enough to make repair attractive - and OEM is preferable to aftermarket. But aftermarket sure beats a just plain bad one! For the accelerator pump question... although electronic FI systems don't have an accelerator pump, they are (all?) programmed to behave as though they did! I imagine that is because it was easy enough to do and it made FI behave more like people were used to. Anyway, pumping the accelerator pedal with the ignition on and the engine not started gives a rich start and holding the pedal down while starting gives a lean start. Mike >>> Greetings, all. >>> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > Mike Thanks for the prompt reply. I am able to use a soldering iron. The traces and pads look far enough apart that the risk of bridging a solder joint seems minimal. So another question might be is the fix worth the effort, or, while I have the area exposed, is a new Acura part the better route for reliability? In which case I would still re-flow the solder joints on the old one retaining it as a ready spare. Did the part manufacturing process address the defect and are new parts likely to be free of the problem? Thanks once again, PB (but really Mike, too) > I am able to use a soldering iron. The traces and pads look far enough > apart that the risk of bridging a solder joint seems minimal. So another [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > PB (but really Mike, too) The repair is a piece of cake for anybody who has soldered PC boards or other semi-delicate parts. This problem is not unique to Honda products. It comes from the bad practice of using solder as the strength part to mount components - especially heavy components like relays - to circuit boards in high-vibration environments. I doubt the current ones cement the parts down before soldering them, which is what is needed to relieve the stress on the weak and fairly brittle solder connections. But I suppose a decade of life is what they consider acceptable. Resoldering is a perfectly acceptable choice, especially if you use some cement to support the parts on the circuit board while you are at it. Mike >>>> Greetings, all. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > have the area exposed, is a new Acura part the better route for > reliability? I resoldered mine (94 Integra GSR) about 5 years ago,not a problem since. The relay is on the left side of the driver's footwell,up under the trim panel.I removed it to get easier access. > In which case I would still re-flow the solder joints on the old one > retaining it as a ready spare. > > Did the part manufacturing process address the defect and are new > parts likely to be free of the problem? Who knows? It's doubtful that the relay maker even knows about the MR solder joint problem or that they could do anything to correct it.  SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net My son says the relay is bolted to the side (he described it as actually being bolted to the kick panel, but that doesn't seem right) above the clutch pedal. Mike > I found this page: > > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#mainrelay > > It is a little fuzzy on whether a 1994 Acura was a possible candidate > for this problem. Any comments? They ALL are, after about eight years or so... So far, There has been little evidence that ANY Honda is immune to the problem. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I found this page: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So far, There has been little evidence that ANY Honda is immune to the > problem. Is it difficult to remove the trim to gain access to the main relay? Are the fasteners I will encounter snap-type, screw, other? And in specific, is the main relay on the 1994 UNDER the dash area or to the LEFT under the left-side footwell trim panel? Thanks, PB > Is it difficult to remove the trim to gain access to the main relay? > Are the fasteners I will encounter snap-type, screw, other? See below. > And in specific, is the main relay on the 1994 UNDER the dash area or to > the LEFT under the left-side footwell trim panel? It is above the hood latch, in much the same place as it is in the '92-'95 Civic. See the location page: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Is it difficult to remove the trim to gain access to the main relay? >> Are the fasteners I will encounter snap-type, screw, other? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > See the location page: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html I am going to attempt the repair this weekend. More questions. 1. Is it difficult to remove and replace the trim panel/cover on the left? 2. Would it be doable/wise to fit some rubber grommets to shock and vibration-isolate the main relay assembly? And once again, thanks for the tips. Drinks and towels "on the house", p00lb0y >>> Is it difficult to remove the trim to gain access to the main relay? >>> Are the fasteners I will encounter snap-type, screw, other? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > 1. Is it difficult to remove and replace the trim panel/cover on the > left? A screw on either lower corner of the trim panel,and one in the coin box.Then lift up slightly to disengage the clips on the upper corners of the panel. > 2. Would it be doable/wise to fit some rubber grommets to shock and > vibration-isolate the main relay assembly? Not worthwhile;just re-solder it and it's good for another 10 years. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>>> Is it difficult to remove the trim to gain access to the main relay? >>>> Are the fasteners I will encounter snap-type, screw, other? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Not worthwhile;just re-solder it and it's good for another 10 years. I should add that IMO it's not vibration that degrades the solder joints;it's thermal cycling and normal crystallization of the tin/lead solder alloy. Vibration keeps the joint making contact.(evidenced by smacking the dash and your car starting even with the faulty relay,and the car running after starting.) SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net No your acura does not have the old carburetor on there instead its fuel injected being a 94 could be a fuel pump starting to get weak to an electrical problem suggest checking for codes" early hondas/Acura"s did see to have some trouble with relays check teggers site www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.htm -- johnin |
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