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Car Forum / Acura Cars / May 2007Brake servicing FAQ page update...
I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read it. I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent corrosion and seizure of various parts. Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to machine the rotors. Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me. Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong. Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding, greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes showed the same symptoms. It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep. This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors. I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$) The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde. In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back here. If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor glaze, please let me know. This page has been updated to reflect my new findings. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read > it. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > This page has been updated to reflect my new findings. > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html two comments! 1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder! 2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high temperature resistance about it. if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you find an economic source of it, let me know! > two comments! > > 1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder! I have, actually. Patchy glaze will cause judder just like warped rotors! > 2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high > temperature resistance about it. I was VERY sparing with the silicone. If it creeps, I'll know. Sil-Glyde does not creep or melt at 150F, though, so I might get lucky here. > if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you > find an economic source of it, let me know! I see what you mean. I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn. My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get their M77 directly from Honda. OUCH OUCH OUCH! SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you >> find an economic source of it, let me know! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get > their M77 directly from Honda. http://www.usededmonton.com/classified-ad/678078&category=miscellaneous-for-sale =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01: >>> if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you >>> find an economic source of it, let me know! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.usededmonton.com/classified-ad/678078&category=miscellaneous > -for-sale Cool. But that can looks like it's kinda old. Sure it's "new" government surplus, but the government got rid of it for a reason... SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest >>> container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Sure it's "new" government surplus, but the government got rid of it for a > reason... That stuff is harder than HELL to find, and doesn't seem to be sold in the US! Guess I'll stick to my off the rack AutoZone brake grease! =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in news:K6_2i.7490$4a1.7359@trndny07: >>>> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest >>>> container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > That stuff is harder than HELL to find, and doesn't seem to be sold in > the US! It is. Click here: <http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?country=USA&R=25EN> Click on "Find a Distributor" and choose your state. > Guess I'll stick to my off the rack AutoZone brake grease! I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the $66 2.5oz tube. I feel the same sort of awe I felt when I bought my first genuine Snap-On wrench: Wowwwww...the REAL thing... SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote > in news:K6_2i.7490$4a1.7359@trndny07: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Click on "Find a Distributor" and choose your state. Everytime I try to go to dowcorning.com, I get a "server error"! WTF? >> Guess I'll stick to my off the rack AutoZone brake grease! > > I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the $66 2.5oz tube. I feel the same sort > of awe I felt when I bought my first genuine Snap-On wrench: Wowwwww...the > REAL thing... =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in news:QBp3i.4536$xu.3374@trndny07: > Everytime I try to go to dowcorning.com, I get a "server error"! WTF? Try the simple approach, grasshopper. http://www.dowcorning.com/ Navigate to the holy M77 page from there. Does that help? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> > wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Sure it's "new" government surplus, but the government got rid of it for a > reason... Ha! Here's a life time supply of the stuff... http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=410&Tab=Vendors JT >> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> >> wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Ha! Here's a life time supply of the stuff... <http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=410&Tab=Vendors> Waaait a minute. That site lists a 496 gram tub. That's just over a pound, or 17.5 oz. For.... wait for it.......... $2,076.96 TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!! Hey man, I've got better things to do with two thousand dollars. Cocaine is probably cheaper. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts> >> wrote in news:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > JT Dude! One+ lb buckets! I see it's a whole lot cheaper if you buy three.... Mike On May 18, 9:01 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote: > > =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Tru...@AE86.gts> > > wrote innews:EMP2i.7464$vu2.228@trndny01: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Molykote is widely used in India and the results are excellent. For lubr problems, you can click here. http://www.4pcorporation.com/Problem_Solutions.asp Four-P International Pvt Ltd No.6 Esplanade, Indian Chamber Building 3rd floor, Chennai 600 108 (India). Fax:91 44 2533 2176,Ph :91 44 2533 1110/1112. Email: fourp@vsnl.com <mailto:fourp@vsnl.com> Websites : http://www.4pCorporation.com http://www.YourBabysName.com http://www.TeluguWebsite.com >> two comments! >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > OUCH OUCH OUCH! for brake rubbers, according to this link http://www.dowcorning.com/content/auto/new_lubrication_chassis_brake.asp?DCWS=Au tomotive&DCWSS= molykote 33 can be used for brake rubbers. which is just as well since i've used it may times in the past! anyway, the point is that it's relatively readily available and relatively affordable for the true silicone brake grease addicts. >> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you >find an economic source of it, let me know! When using Honda OEM pads they come with a small packet of molykote m77. it. >>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you >>find an economic source of it, let me know! > > When using Honda OEM pads they come with a small packet of molykote > m77. Not all of them. Mine do not. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read > it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to > machine the rotors. Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling the brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the rotors and replacing the pads. >> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the > rotors and replacing the pads. ------------------------------ I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll bet the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! ! 'Curly' > I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll bet > the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! ! I run a fleet of refuse and recycling trucks that are in the urban area, except for once or twice a day for a run of 10 kilometres round trip. They do nothing but stop and go forty to fifty feet all day long. The brake rotors/ drums and pads/shoes become glazed within a week or two, it's far more affordable and no down time occurs when using the method I described earlier. >>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning > the rotors and replacing the pads. Nah,I come up to stop signs at high speeds and then slam on the brakes. This keeps them from glazing, too... ;) >>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or > rotors. Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad. Interesting. "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454 $V75.3804@edtnps89: >> Tried that. Doesn't work if the pads are bad. > > Interesting. I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel. The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter, some heavier. I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration"). SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454 > $V75.3804@edtnps89: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to > cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration"). be in no doubt, if you have that kind of surface contamination, that can /definitely/ cause vibration. > "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in news:5E33i.22454 > $V75.3804@edtnps89: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to > cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration"). I remember years ago when a friend had an obvious rotor pulse. Machining the rotors made no difference. Changing pads and replacing rotors still made no difference. The whole problem disapeared when he bought a new set of tires... <shrug> JT (Who thinks gearheading leads to unbalanced thinking...sometimes.) What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the two caliper bolts. For the shims of the brake pads I only use the Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. I have yet to have this happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them. Nick >I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >it. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >This page has been updated to reflect my new findings. >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes2.html > What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the > two caliper bolts. I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots. > For the shims of the brake pads I only use the > Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. And as I keep pointing out, not all models' pads come with shims or Molykote. > I have yet to have this > happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them. Good for you. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the >> two caliper bolts. > >I hope you don't mean the ones that have the rubber boots. Yep those are the ones. I find it very difficult to get the bolts off without applying it. >> For the shims of the brake pads I only use the >> Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Good for you. >>> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the >>> two caliper bolts. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yep those are the ones. I find it very difficult to get the bolts off > without applying it. Really? I wonder why? In sixteen years I've never had a problem with removing the bolts from the pins. Usually the problem is removing the pins from the pad mount bracket, that being unrelated to the use of anti-seize. Anti-seizes are petroleum-based and will rot your rubber pin boots. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the >>>> two caliper bolts. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Anti-seizes are petroleum-based and will rot your rubber pin boots. (Now he tells me...I use it on the slides...) I only apply it to the threaded section of the bolt and even then it is just a thin layer, besides even if they rot, they cost so little and are easy to replace. I will keep in in mind. Thanks, Nick >>>> What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the >>>> two caliper bolts. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Anti-seizes are petroleum-based and will rot your rubber pin boots. >I only apply it to the threaded section of the bolt and even then it > is just a thin layer, besides even if they rot, they cost so little > and are easy to replace. I will keep in in mind. > > Thanks, > Nick Where do you find replacements? From your local Honda/Acura dealer. >>I only apply it to the threaded section of the bolt and even then it >> is just a thin layer, besides even if they rot, they cost so little [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Where do you find replacements? |
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