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Car Forum / Acura Cars / November 20072000 GSR: Immobilizer?
Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? -Bob > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? <proper crossposting added, including rec.autos.makers.honda> Yes, your keys have chips in them. Why?  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? > > <proper crossposting added, including rec.autos.makers.honda> > > Yes, your keys have chips in them. Why? Someone stole my 2000 Acura Integra GSR, and I had assumed they broke in, started it, and drove off. Just wondering how they did that... -Bob >> > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -Bob perhaps they brought along their own rigged immobilizer module? I've found references to an anti-theft "immobilizer" system,but no mention of RFID-chipped keys.IIRC,the "immobilizer" is a separate module. on my 94 GS-R,they push-started the car even though it had an alarm with starter lockout.Drove it off at 3:40AM with the alarm blaring,too. "gone in 60 seconds". You need to have a hidden fuel cutoff switch,and maybe even take the ECU indoors with you at night. F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. You should move to Texas. That's exactly what someone did last week. Still no word on whether the DA's going to press charges, but public opinion here has so far been mostly in favor of the shooter. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5315727.html Dave >> F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. >You should move to Texas. That's exactly what someone did last week. >Still no word on whether the DA's going to press charges, but public >opinion here has so far been mostly in favor of the shooter. >http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5315727.html In louisiana, being on your property and not speaking english well is enough reason to shoot them dead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori >> F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave You don't even have to live in Texas to do that. If I caught someone trying to steal my car, I'd tie them to a fence and chop off their balls and make them eat them, then I'd shoot them! If it was a woman I'd tie them to a fence, and then have my way with her and then I'd shoot her. I'm a nice person, I'm just very protective of my car. >>> F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'd tie them to a fence, and then have my way with her and then I'd > shoot her. I'm a nice person, I'm just very protective of my car. far too many people are willing to surrender their property(and mine,yours) to thieves. As if the thief's life was somehow important. They can't see the terrible cost this thievery has to our society. It also leads to worse crimes. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>>> F-ing G-D thieves,we should be allowed to shoot them on sight. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > They can't see the terrible cost this thievery has to our society. > It also leads to worse crimes. And to think tolerance of thievery only started about 40 years ago. At one time, not so very long ago, it was considered a citizen's duty to defend his person, family and property by whatever means he deemed necessary. And the world was a better place for it. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>> Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > perhaps they brought along their own rigged immobilizer module? ----------------------------------- More likely they borough their own _Tow Truck_ 'Curly' >> > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the key? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Just wondering how they did that... It's my understanding that dealerships have "skeleton keys" that will open any Honda. It may be that there are stolen copies floating around of such keys. It's also possible computer hackers have found a way to defeat the security. It can't be much harder than hacking any other computer-based security setup. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the >>> > key? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > security. It can't be much harder than hacking any other > computer-based security setup. it depends on whether the Hondas use an ECU-based "immobilizer" where an implanted code in the ECU has to match what the RFID chip in the key generates. Then they would have to change the ECU out to get the car to start with their RFID key. ISTR that the later Integras had a separate "immobilizer" module(just a starter disable) that could be unplugged and replaced with a jumper module or hacked module. IOW,it's just like aftermarket alarms,easily defeated. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>>> > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the >>>> > key? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > IOW,it's just like aftermarket alarms,easily defeated. I just did some quick studying of the immobilizer system in my manuals. The '00-'05 Integra/RSX's immobilizer consist of three components: The transponder in the key, the control unit/receiver, and the engine's computer. The receiver is right next to the ignition lock cylinder. When the receiver senses the correct signal from the key's transponder, it sends a coded sequence back to the engine's ECM. If the transmitted code is correct, the ECM causes the fuel system to be operated in a normal manner. If the signal is wrong, the fuel system will be disabled. And how will the ECM disable the fuel system? By refusing to ground the Main Relay (probably by leaving terminal 8 open). Are you thinking the same thing I'm thinking? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > I just did some quick studying of the immobilizer system in my manuals. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Are you thinking the same thing I'm thinking? No... Not following you... ?? -Bob >>>>> > Did the 2000 Acura Integra GSR have an 'immobilizer' chip in the >>>>> > key? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > And how will the ECM disable the fuel system? By refusing to ground the > Main Relay (probably by leaving terminal 8 open). Does it SAY that? I thought it might inhibit injector operation,shutting them off totally. (at least in the RSX,a newer system.) That's what happens in my Sentra SE-R SpecV. That also is "disabling the fuel system". > Are you thinking the same thing I'm thinking? Just not grounding the main relay leaves it vulnerable to jumpering,very simple. An "immobilizer" HAS to disable the ECU to be effective. If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> And how will the ECM disable the fuel system? By refusing to ground >> the Main Relay (probably by leaving terminal 8 open). > > Does it SAY that? No it does not. It *does* say that the ECM will refuse to ground the Main Relay. I'm guessing on the Terminal 8 thing. Terminal 8 is the activation line for pre-'02 Main Relays. Around '02, Honda split the Main Relay into two separate relays, one for fuel, for ignition. I haven't scrutinized the diagrams to see exactly what goes where. Yet. > I thought it might inhibit injector operation,shutting them off > totally. (at least in the RSX,a newer system.) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > jumpering,very simple. > An "immobilizer" HAS to disable the ECU to be effective. I wonder how honest my (factory) manual is. It claims fuel disable, and nothing more. > If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. > I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for > installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. That's too bad. The late John Ings had just that advice up on the FAQ before I took it over. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/stolen.html There're only two lines to the fuel pump, and one's a ground. Splice into the live wire and it would be a rare crook indeed who could figure that one out. No power, no fuel. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> And how will the ECM disable the fuel system? By refusing to ground >>> the Main Relay (probably by leaving terminal 8 open). >> >> Does it SAY that? >No it does not. It *does* say that the ECM will refuse to ground the Main >Relay. I'm guessing on the Terminal 8 thing. Terminal 8 is the activation >line for pre-'02 Main Relays. >Around '02, Honda split the Main Relay into two separate relays, one for >fuel, for ignition. I haven't scrutinized the diagrams to see exactly what >goes where. Yet. >> I thought it might inhibit injector operation,shutting them off >> totally. (at least in the RSX,a newer system.) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> jumpering,very simple. >> An "immobilizer" HAS to disable the ECU to be effective. >I wonder how honest my (factory) manual is. It claims fuel disable, and >nothing more. >> If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. >> I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for >> installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. >That's too bad. The late John Ings had just that advice up on the FAQ >before I took it over. >http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/stolen.html >There're only two lines to the fuel pump, and one's a ground. Splice into >the live wire and it would be a rare crook indeed who could figure that one >out. No power, no fuel. Even if the fuel pump runs, the ECM can simply fail to signal the injectors. Ditto for the ignition. You can't have a running engine without the ECM participating. > Even if the fuel pump runs, the ECM can simply fail to signal the > injectors. Ditto for the ignition. You can't have a running engine > without the ECM participating. You're right of course. That's why I wondered earlier how honest the shop manual was. It would be trivially easy for Honda to tell the ECM to disable spark and injectors as well as the fuel pump. But none of this explains how the OP's car was stolen in the first place, which is what this whole thread was about. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > But none of this explains how the OP's car was stolen in the first place, > which is what this whole thread was about. Quite simple. Get a truck, lift front wheels and pull. Say goodbye to car. >> Even if the fuel pump runs, the ECM can simply fail to signal the >> injectors. Ditto for the ignition. You can't have a running engine >> without the ECM participating. >You're right of course. That's why I wondered earlier how honest the shop >manual was. It would be trivially easy for Honda to tell the ECM to disable >spark and injectors as well as the fuel pump. >But none of this explains how the OP's car was stolen in the first place, >which is what this whole thread was about. if it had an immobilizer, it was either tricked, or more likely, the car was simply towed away. >> Even if the fuel pump runs, the ECM can simply fail to signal the >> injectors. Ditto for the ignition. You can't have a running engine [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > But none of this explains how the OP's car was stolen in the first > place, which is what this whole thread was about. it would seem that the ECM does NOT disable the injectors,just the relay,and they just jumpered the relay,then pushstarted the car. Or they brought along their own ECM,swapped it in,and then jimmied the ignition switch,with their matching key close enough for the key reader to query it. That's a bit of a stretch,but not impossible. If you install a fuel pump cutoff switch,you should remove the rear seat to access the fuel pump wires,not under the dash where the mod would be easily found.Then run the wire under the carpet to somewhere reachable from the drivers seat. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. > I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for > installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. What about just putting The Club on the steering wheel? How good are they? >> If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. >> I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for >> installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. > > What about just putting The Club on the steering wheel? How good are > they? Bolt cutters. Off it comes. The Club is totally useless. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. >> I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for >> installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. > > What about just putting The Club on the steering wheel? How good are > they? Waste of money. they *cut off* part of your steering wheel. Maybe one that clamps on the brake pedal arm might be worthwhile. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> If that's the case,best to install a hidden fuel pump disable switch. >> I wish I had done that for my 94 GS-R,I had the parts all ready for >> installation,just didn't get to it in time. It cost me big time. >What about just putting The Club on the steering wheel? How good are they? They're absolutely worthless. They can be removed in under 15 seconds by cutting the steering wheel.
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