Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / August 2004
Lotus Seven
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Neil G - 08 Aug 2004 12:24 GMT I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies don't have them fitted instead choosing mass-produced Ford/Vauxhall units where the pants have to been revved off them to get anywhere near the pithy peak torque range let alone peak power .
Has anyone successfully mated an Alfa unit to a 7 copy? I guess a big problem would be sourcing a suitable prop shaft (rwd)? Discuss mertis and problems as appropriate :-)
Neil
SteveH - 08 Aug 2004 12:28 GMT > I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car > engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problem would be sourcing a suitable prop shaft (rwd)? Discuss mertis and > problems as appropriate :-) How about an adaptation to take the old Alfa Twincam with rear transaxle gearbox.
That would be awesome. Especially if you got hold of a 75 Turbo engine for it.
 Signature Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - Alfa 155 TS Lusso - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #
Catman - 08 Aug 2004 13:27 GMT >> I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car >> engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > That would be awesome. Especially if you got hold of a 75 Turbo engine > for it. Chris Snowdon did one a few years back. It was at the back of his workshop last time I looked.
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
SteveH - 08 Aug 2004 13:37 GMT > >> Has anyone successfully mated an Alfa unit to a 7 copy? I guess a big > >> problem would be sourcing a suitable prop shaft (rwd)? Discuss mertis [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Chris Snowdon did one a few years back. It was at the back of his workshop > last time I looked. Wonder how much he'd want to part with it?
 Signature Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - Alfa 155 TS Lusso - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #
Ex Alfa Adam - 08 Aug 2004 14:40 GMT > > > How about an adaptation to take the old Alfa Twincam with rear transaxle > > > gearbox. That would be awesome. Especially if you got hold of a 75 Turbo engine
> > > for it. > > > > Chris Snowdon did one a few years back. It was at the back of his workshop > > last time I looked. > > Wonder how much he'd want to part with it? A Caterham 7 with a turbo TS engine - you're sick, sick. Dirty. dirty, dirty!
Can I have a go when it comes out of the workshop?
Adam H
Dr Entropy - 08 Aug 2004 15:21 GMT X:> > > How about an adaptation to take the old Alfa Twincam with rear X:transaxle X:> > > gearbox. That would be awesome. Especially if you got hold of a 75 X:Turbo engine X:> > > for it. X:> > X:> > Chris Snowdon did one a few years back. It was at the back of his X:workshop X:> > last time I looked. X:> X:> Wonder how much he'd want to part with it? X: X:A Caterham 7 with a turbo TS engine - you're sick, sick. Dirty. dirty, X:dirty! X: X:Can I have a go when it comes out of the workshop? X: X:Adam H X: A few years ago I did a Seven conversion: Took a Fiat(!) TC ~OUT~ of the chassis and built a Lotus TC for the owner, who then raced it in SCCA "Vintage/historic" class... but not before I got to terrorise the neighbourhood for a few "test" laps around the block ;-} Herself and I slidin' the arse-end around th' corners, neighbors comin' out of their houses onna second "lap" to watch and cheer as SWMBO an' self giggled and waved like six-year-olds at a carnival.
Four wheels an' a board, with 150HP! WOOHOOO!!!!
"Keep 'em up onna sidewalks, where they belong!"
Dr E-- mhm 17x1
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George Graves - 08 Aug 2004 21:11 GMT > > I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car > > engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > That would be awesome. Especially if you got hold of a 75 Turbo engine > for it. That makes more sense!
 Signature George Graves ------------------
Bush is a poor leader because he isn't very smart. What's Kerry's excuse gonna be?
Zathras - 08 Aug 2004 20:59 GMT >I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car >engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies >don't have them fitted instead choosing mass-produced Ford/Vauxhall units >where the pants have to been revved off them to get anywhere near the pithy >peak torque range let alone peak power . I've driven one of these with a Burton race engine (1700cc I think) fitted. Truly awesome. Much as I like my 2.4JTD, this is the wrong place for it - it's too big and heavy. Even if you did fit it, it would be so quick you'd need to fit some kind of auto box or your hands would be a blur changing the gears given that 4500rpm is useful top rev. The 7 is best with a lightweight power unit (preferably a screamer!). YMMV.
 Signature Z Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
George Graves - 08 Aug 2004 21:11 GMT > I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car > engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Neil I would think that the big problem would be adapting these engines to RWD. Here in the States, there is pretty big business (in the Alfa community) in replacing tired 2.5 liter GTV-6 Alfetta engines with 3.0 liter units out of 164s (the last Alfa sold here in the US). The reason why it works is because when you pry the transmission case off of the bottom of the of the engine block, you have a pretty standard Alfa V-6. The oil pan for a RWD GTV-6 or Alfa 75 3.0 fits perfectly; you just have to drill and tap and few more holes. Then you take the flywheel from your old engine and bolt it onto the 3.0 liter 164 unit. You do have to do things like move the distributor from the rear of the cam box back to it's original upright position on the right front of the engine (passenger side here in the US, driver's side in Ol' Blighty) and some minor engineering needs to be done with the intake manifold and plenum due the the way they were designed in the FWD six. I've even seen a 164 24 valve fitted to a GTV-6 too, but that means even more re-engineering, but the block's the same so again, the GTV-6 2.5 liter oil pan fits. The results, though, in these light cars. is worth it, especially the 24 valve with it's 240 BHP! I ought to know, I've a GTV-6 (86) with a 3 liter, hot cams, increased compression and a re-mapped FI ECU. IT flys! 0-60 MPH in 5.8/5.9 seconds, top speed 155+. Yep it goes.
But I digress. The reason that such an FWD to RWD conversion is possible here is because Alfa hadn't changed the block and the RWD bits from the earlier incarnations of the same basic engine still fit. You won't have that kind of luck with modern Alfa engines like the 2.0 TS and the 2.4 JTD because there never were RWD versions of those engines built. You'd have to have an oil pan fabricated as well as an exhaust manifold (the 2.5 Liter GTV-6 headers fit the 3.0 Liter 164 12-valve engine perfectly, but they won't fit the twin-cam, 24-valve heads) and god only knows what else (engine mounts?). This makes such an engine swap really expensive, but I bet a '7 with the Alfa 2.0 liter 4 would scream!
 Signature George Graves ------------------
Bush is a poor leader because he isn't very smart. What's Kerry's excuse gonna be?
Thomas Strandtoft - 14 Aug 2004 19:32 GMT > But I digress. The reason that such an FWD to RWD conversion is possible > here is because Alfa hadn't changed the block and the RWD bits from the > earlier incarnations of the same basic engine still fit. You won't have > that kind of luck with modern Alfa engines like the 2.0 TS and the 2.4 > JTD because there never were RWD versions of those engines built. You'd The 2.0 TS was fitted to the RWD 75/Milano.. Are you thinking of the new 2.0 TS on a cast-iron block??
> else (engine mounts?). This makes such an engine swap really expensive, > but I bet a '7 with the Alfa 2.0 liter 4 would scream! I don't want a '7, I wan't the Elise fitted with a tweaked Alfa 2.0 and big Dell'Orto carbs.. :-)
 Signature Hygge.. Thomas
<http://www.carftp.com> - a library of car videos.
Catman - 14 Aug 2004 20:52 GMT >> But I digress. The reason that such an FWD to RWD conversion is possible >> here is because Alfa hadn't changed the block and the RWD bits from the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I don't want a '7, I wan't the Elise fitted with a tweaked Alfa > 2.0 and big Dell'Orto carbs.. :-) You are an evil man. Even that name: Dell 'Oro <sigh>
:)  Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Thomas Strandtoft - 20 Aug 2004 22:53 GMT > > I don't want a '7, I wan't the Elise fitted with a tweaked Alfa > > 2.0 and big Dell'Orto carbs.. :-) > > > You are an evil man. Even that name: Dell 'Oro > <sigh> > :) Have you ever heard an Elise? I haven't, not even standing 2 feet behind one that started.. The owner said, I shouldn't really judge the sound of his car, since he fitted the somewhat louder sports exhaust - louder?!? My mothers Toyota Yaris sounds the same, making close to no noise..
I my book, the Elise is a gem, but it totally deserves an inspirering engine with a proper roar and naturally a carburated Alfa 2.0 entered my mind.. :-)
 Signature Hygge.. Thomas
<http://www.carftp.com> - a library of car videos.
Halmyre - 09 Aug 2004 12:52 GMT > I wonder, we all know the 2.0TS and 2.4JTD are some of the best road-car > engine designs around. Pity then that Lotus 7 kits such as Cats and Westies [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Neil In a similar vein, I sometimes wonder what my 1.8TS engine would be like in my better half's MX-5. OTOH, I'd like to try her six-speed gearbox in my 156...
Halmyre
Hans de Heer - 10 Aug 2004 19:31 GMT > Has anyone successfully mated an Alfa unit to a 7 copy? I guess a big > problem would be sourcing a suitable prop shaft (rwd)? Discuss mertis and > problems as appropriate :-) Well, it's not a 2.0TS, nor a 2.4JTD... how about a V6? ;)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_1.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_2.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_3.jpg
I shot these pictures on a meeting of a dutch Alfa Romeo webcommunity. Unfortunately I don't have any technical details, but if I recall collectly this car is owned by one of the guys behind http://www.squadra-tuning.com/, I think his name was Stephan or Stefan? Maybe some of my dutch friends here know more about this beast!
 Signature Regards, Hans Alfa Romeo 156 Selespeed - 1999 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0V6 - 1997
Neil G - 10 Aug 2004 20:27 GMT >Well, it's not a 2.0TS, nor a 2.4JTD... how about a V6? ;) Hans, you're cruel! Yoiu should be locked up for posting pictures like that ;-)
Neil
Catman - 10 Aug 2004 21:59 GMT >> Has anyone successfully mated an Alfa unit to a 7 copy? I guess a big >> problem would be sourcing a suitable prop shaft (rwd)? Discuss mertis [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_2.jpg > http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_3.jpg Gibber, dribble, blargh
<fx catman passes out with lust>
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Hans de Heer - 11 Aug 2004 07:29 GMT > http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_1.jpg > http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_2.jpg [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think his name was Stephan or Stefan? Maybe some of my dutch friends here > know more about this beast! Some kind soul on a dutch forum sent me a link to a page with more info on this creature. Unfortunately it's in dutch, but I think you can all figure out the technical details from it!
http://www.squadra-tuning.com/Specials/Alfa_specials_DAX.htm
Regards, Hans
Catman - 11 Aug 2004 14:49 GMT >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_1.jpg >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~hdeheer/temp/kitcar_v6_2.jpg [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Regards, Hans How much do I want one of those????
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Tom Boltwood - 11 Aug 2004 15:24 GMT > From: Catman <catman@cuore-rustsportivo.co.uk> > Organization: EasyNews, UseNet made Easy! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > How much do I want one of those???? That truly is one of the most fantastic things I've ever seen.
Alfistagj - 11 Aug 2004 15:28 GMT > Regards, Hans > > How much do I want one of those???? very??
 Signature Ciao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
Catman - 11 Aug 2004 17:35 GMT >> Regards, Hans >> >> How much do I want one of those???? >> -- > > very?? very *very*
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
Thomas Strandtoft - 14 Aug 2004 19:39 GMT > very *very* How about this one while you wait?? <http://www.p1x-2000.co.uk/X19%20Experience.htm> :-)
 Signature Hygge.. Thomas
<http://www.carftp.com> - a library of car videos.
Catman - 14 Aug 2004 20:54 GMT >> very *very* > > How about this one while you wait?? > <http://www.p1x-2000.co.uk/X19%20Experience.htm> :-) That's insane. More practical than a 7 though :>
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
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