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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / October 2004147 T-Spark Service problem
A little friendly advice required please. A service is due on my 147 and we were aware that the cam belts would need replacing and the cost would be quite high. I dropped it off at the dealers today (Caledonia-Warrington) and when I called to find out when it would be ready, they said there was another problem that needed fixing. Something called a "variant" ?? Now I know the basics of cars mechanics, but this is a new one for me. As it will increase the service price by approximately ?300, to over ?700 (!!) I would like to know exactly what this part is and why the hell it is so expensive. They told me it could be done when the cam belt is changed so I'm presuming it's to do with the timing. Any info will be much appreciated. >A little friendly advice required please. >A service is due on my 147 and we were aware that the cam belts would need [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >presuming it's to do with the timing. >Any info will be much appreciated. I got my cam belt changed under warranty by the dealer at its 36k mile service, as the dealer told Alfa that the variator was on it way out, so they kind of spun a little white lie and got the job done the other way around. Additional cost to me: Zero. Brownie points to dealer: Lots. Maybe Caledonia could do something similar for you? I'm assuming your 147 is still under warranty of course. Jake > I got my cam belt changed under warranty by the dealer at its 36k mile > service, as the dealer told Alfa that the variator was on it way out, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Maybe Caledonia could do something similar for you? I'm assuming your > 147 is still under warranty of course. Variator..sorry. That's it. No, the car is 3.5 years old so the warranty option is a no go, I'm afraid. Does the part cost as much as they are saying , or is this going to be an on-going problem for my beloved 147 ? I realize car parts were getting more and more expensive, but this seems ridiculous ! Thanks for replying, btw. >> I got my cam belt changed under warranty by the dealer at its 36k mile >> service, as the dealer told Alfa that the variator was on it way out, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >No, the car is 3.5 years old so the warranty option is a no go, I'm afraid. Hmmm. Out of luck there. >Does the part cost as much as they are saying , or is this going to be an >on-going problem for my beloved 147 ? Don't know, hope not! Mine's still under warranty for another 7 months. I realize car parts were getting more >and more expensive, but this seems ridiculous ! > >Thanks for replying, btw. I'd bitch like hell and create a scene along the lines of 'what a 3.5 year old car breaking down already' you never know they might just go halves if you make enough fuss - especially if the place is full of prospective buyers... SS > I'd bitch like hell and create a scene along the lines of 'what a 3.5 year > old car breaking down already' > you never know they might just go halves if you make enough fuss - > especially if the place is full of prospective > buyers... I think my girlfriend has something along those lines planned ! Especially as it seems to be a well known fault in certain Alfa's . A) BeltS should read belt; you only have one on a TS engine (so that saves some costs B) I guess they mean the variator motor, the "thing" that operates the inlet camshaft This is a typical Alfa problem dating from the period 1998-mid2000 When defective you will hear a sound as when the hydraulical tippits are still without oil pressure. Only difference is that the tippet sound disappears after a few seconds, but the defective variator sound will remain (sound like a diesel engine) Nothing will brake or so, only the sound AND the inlet cam shaft will not "vary" as it should, so you lack some (top)power. If there is no abnormal sound in the engine, it will hardly be the variator. All 4-cil TS engines suffered from this problem; those manufactured after April 2000 are o.k. Some earlier engines have been "repaired" using a new variator with the same problenm as the original one so had to be repaired more than once. Engines from after April 2000 don't have this problem anymore; variators usually last as long as the engine (200.000km's is normal), but you can be unlucky when any engine part fails after the official guarantee term!  SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (soon: GT 2.0JTS) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) >A little friendly advice required please. > A service is due on my 147 and we were aware that the cam belts would need [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > so I'm presuming it's to do with the timing. > Any info will be much appreciated. > A) BeltS should read belt; you only have one on a TS engine (so that saves > some costs [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > usually last as long as the engine (200.000km's is normal), but you can be > unlucky when any engine part fails after the official guarantee term! Thanks very much for the insight. As my car is a 2001 model, it seems strange that this "variator" is faulty. Perhaps I should look deeper into the cars service history. Also, I'm pretty certain that the service manager told me that failure of this part would cause serious damage. Could I hold this against them when I go to pay up ? Hi There The Variator is best changed (if broken) when the timing belt is changed as the belt has to be removed to change the variator. On the cost front the variator its self is about ?80. The whole job cambelt & variator,belt tensioner and bearing change cost me at a local specialised ?303 including labour. The cost of the service (48k) was at the same time was ?98 The tensioner is the bit that generally fails more often that the belt its self. Hope this is of some use to you all. My advise find a good specialist and stay clear of the Alfa dealers they will only flees you. Cozy 156 1.8 T Spark 1999 T Plate I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you? http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html > Thanks very much for the insight. > As my car is a 2001 model, it seems strange that this "variator" is faulty. > Perhaps I should look deeper into the cars service history. > Also, I'm pretty certain that the service manager told me that failure of > this part would cause serious damage. Could I hold this against them when I > go to pay up ? I'm pretty sure I've read in this group that a variator costs about 75 UKP plus a small amount of additional labour if you're already having the timing belt, tensioner and pulley done. BTW, make sure you get all these bits done, as it's often the latter components that fail and take out the belt. Lots of stuff about variators on google groups: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L138264A9 I would guess a total bill of 7-800 UKP would be expected from a main dealer for this work plus a major service. HTH Mark > I'm pretty sure I've read in this group that a variator costs about 75 UKP > plus a small amount of additional labour if you're already having the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > dealer > for this work plus a major service. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet this time. I'm still pissed that this part has apparently failed when the newer versions, post 2000, were meant to be ok. Thanks guys. I'll post back after the collecting the car tomorrow. > Thanks very much for the insight. > As my car is a 2001 model, it seems strange that this "variator" is > faulty. Perhaps I should look deeper into the cars service history. > Also, I'm pretty certain that the service manager told me that failure of > this part would cause serious damage. Could I hold this against them when > I go to pay up ? I certainly thought the variator problem was cured by the time 147s were introduced. It makes a diesel noise on startup. I specifically asked my dealer when I had the cambelt changed on my 96 GTV and they said they checked it and it didn't need replacing. I wonder if your dealer is changing them as a matter of course with cambelt changes across all TS engined cars regardless of age? > I certainly thought the variator problem was cured by the time 147s were > introduced. It makes a diesel noise on startup. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I wonder if your dealer is changing them as a matter of course with > cambelt changes across all TS engined cars regardless of age? I have heard the "diesel" engine sound at start-up, on occasion. But it quietens out fairly quickly. Proving that they(Caledonia) are ripping me off could be a bit tricky. Who's to know what dealers are up to these days. It's been shown that due to the modern cars relative lack of maintenance required, dealers are bumping up prices on what ever work they do carry out. > I have heard the "diesel" engine sound at start-up, on occasion. But it > quietens out fairly quickly. In which case it would seem the sensible time to replace it as you have the clear symptoms of a variator on its way out. I guess Alfa improved the reliability of variators after 2000 but they can still fail like anything else. What mileage has it done? >> I have heard the "diesel" engine sound at start-up, on occasion. But it >> quietens out fairly quickly. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What mileage has it done? About 34,000. It was due a major service and the cam belt is getting replaced so I suppose it must be done..It's just the cost that's getting me down ! my father just made replacement at our local Alfa dealer for the cambelt and the variator of his Alfa 145 1.6TS 120hp. It's the same engine on the 147. The cost is 580 euros for one day of labor. The price for the variator itself is only 180euros. the price for one hour of work is 40euros. If it can help you, i find that UK prices are very hight . Bruno. Gert, great info on the engine but just wondering if the 2.0TS actually has an additional balancer shaft belt or do the balancer shafts run off the aux belt? BC > A) BeltS should read belt; you only have one on a TS engine (so that saves > some costs The 16V TS 2.0 has a balancer shaft with a seperat belt. The 8V doesn't (is the "old" "real" Alfa engine; the 16V are basically FIAT engines) SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (soon: GT 2.0JTS) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) > Gert, great info on the engine but just wondering if the 2.0TS > actually has an additional balancer shaft belt or do the balancer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> saves >> some costs > From: "Alfistagj" <alfistagjOnReplyPleaseRemoveThis@chello.nl> > Organization: chello broadband > Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:13:48 GMT > Subject: Re: 147 T-Spark Service problem <snip> > All 4-cil TS engines suffered from this problem; those manufactured after > April 2000 are o.k. <snip> I think you mean all 16v TS engines? AFAIK the 8v TS engines didn't have this problem. >> From: "Alfistagj" <alfistagjOnReplyPleaseRemoveThis@chello.nl> >> Organization: chello broadband [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I think you mean all 16v TS engines? AFAIK the 8v TS engines didn't have > this problem. They didn't have that variator AFAIK SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk >> From: "Alfistagj" <alfistagjOnReplyPleaseRemoveThis@chello.nl> >> Organization: chello broadband [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I think you mean all 16v TS engines? AFAIK the 8v TS engines didn't have > this problem. Correct!! SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (soon: GT 2.0JTS) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) |
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