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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / November 2004

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'83 Spider won't start

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wf - 14 Nov 2004 01:35 GMT
I finally broke down and sold my 83 Spider to a friend of mine.  He
came over to get it today and wouldn't you know the beast won't start.

Three of us spent the better part of the day trying every trick in the
book just to get the engine to kick over but we got nowhere.

When I crank, the motor just turns at a constant rate.  It never seems
to catch at all.  It doesn't stumble or speed up.  It's like there is
no power stroke.  This makes no sense to me since I know it's getting
fuel, air, and spark.

The battery is fully charged.  It's plugged to the wall with a
charger.  It turns over a little slow but it has always turned over
slow.  I've actually been using the starter motor to move the car in
and out of the garage so I think it's cranking fine.

The spark plugs are all firing.  I've pulled every one and checked
them against the block.  There's a clean strong spark.  I replaced
them all with new Bosch plugs anyway.  They are properly gapped and
they all spark fine too.

The rotor and cap were kind of old.  There's evidence of arcing in the
cap.  I replaced both of them.  It didn't help a bit.

I crudely checked the timing by putting the number one cylinder to TDC
compression and verified the rotor points to the number one point.

The wires are in decent shape.  There's no evidence of arcing from the
wires.  No spark flashes at night.

It's been a bit rainy but the car is quite dry now.  I'm in San Diego
and the temperature reached about 65 today.

I can hear the fuel pump run when I turn on the key.  I pulled the
fuel line, ran it to a jar and saw plenty of fuel come out when
cranking.  I sprayed starter fluid in the intake and even into the
cylinders and it doesn't seem to react at all.

I can feel air being pulled into the intake and exhaust coming out the
pipe.  There doesn't seem to be any vacuum leak.

The timing chain isn't broken and I can see the valves move.

I don't have a compression tester, timing light, or fuel pressure
gauge.  However, the fuel is certainly being delivered.  The plugs are
wet.  The timing is electronic and roughly correct.  I don't see how I
could have suddenly lost compression on all four cylinders.

I believe this all started because I ran it low on gas.  I've since
added two gallons of premium from a gas can.  I don't drive the car
much so I'm guessing it got some pretty cruddy fuel when it reached
the bottom of the tank.  However, I'd think that's well been cleared
out by now.  I'm still amazed that it doesn't respond to starter
fluid.

Anybody have any ideas?
Catman - 14 Nov 2004 08:36 GMT
<snip>

> Anybody have any ideas?

If you're lucky, you've flooded it.

The only other thing I cna think of is that the chain has slipped somehow,
but that would be 'different'
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Arjan Renting - 14 Nov 2004 09:26 GMT
> no power stroke.  This makes no sense to me since I know it's getting
> fuel, air, and spark.
<snip>
> I can hear the fuel pump run when I turn on the key.  I pulled the
> fuel line, ran it to a jar and saw plenty of fuel come out when
> cranking.  I sprayed starter fluid in the intake and even into the
> cylinders and it doesn't seem to react at all.

I guess you did check the carburetor? (and the fuel filter).

Arjan
Alfistagj - 14 Nov 2004 10:01 GMT
Only thing I can come up with are dirty internal carbs (at least I hope you
have the carb version).
You do mention it has been standing for a while and you did ran low on fuel
(then you pull a lot of debri from the bottom of the tank which mixes up
with the last drops.....)
Then it could easily be that the fuel is delivered to the carbs, but the
carbs can't do their work.

Or, more simple, you have flooded the engine.
If so, take off the air filter, put a brick on the gas pedal and let it
stand for 12-24hrs.
Dry, the sparks and give it another try.

Good luck!

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Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (soon: GT 2.0JTS)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)

>I finally broke down and sold my 83 Spider to a friend of mine.  He
> came over to get it today and wouldn't you know the beast won't start.
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> Anybody have any ideas?
Dr. Boggis - 15 Nov 2004 18:28 GMT
> I finally broke down and sold my 83 Spider to a friend of mine.  He
> came over to get it today and wouldn't you know the beast won't start.

Typical!

> I believe this all started because I ran it low on gas.  I've since
> added two gallons of premium from a gas can.  I don't drive the car
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Anybody have any ideas?

Does your fuel pressure light go out? Since you've checked all the ignition type
stuff, and you have suspicion about having run low on gas, maybe the fuel
filter(s) are clogged. Depending on where you checked the fuel flow, you may
have taken it from before a clogged filter.

Signature

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Lady Chatterly - 16 Nov 2004 23:31 GMT
>Three of us spent the better part of the day trying every trick in the
>book just to get the engine to kick over but we got nowhere.

Clogs to clogs in three generations.

>When I crank, the motor just turns at a constant rate.  It never seems
>to catch at all.  It doesn't stumble or speed up.  It's like there is
>no power stroke.  This makes no sense to me since I know it's getting
>fuel, air, and spark.

Why do you think that you know it is getting fuel?

>The battery is fully charged.  It's plugged to the wall with a
>charger.  It turns over a little slow but it has always turned over
>slow.  I've actually been using the starter motor to move the car in
>and out of the garage so I think it's cranking fine.

Can you provide proof?

>The spark plugs are all firing.  I've pulled every one and checked
>them against the block.  There's a clean strong spark.  I replaced
>them all with new Bosch plugs anyway.  They are properly gapped and
>they all spark fine too.

Aren't you being a bit tentative?

>The rotor and cap were kind of old.  There's evidence of arcing in the
>cap.  I replaced both of them.  It didn't help a bit.

And?

>I crudely checked the timing by putting the number one cylinder to TDC
>compression and verified the rotor points to the number one point.

A pessimist is one who builds dungeons in the air.

>The wires are in decent shape.  There's no evidence of arcing from the
>wires.  No spark flashes at night.

Access to do a good root canal treatment on a wisdom tooth is
difficult, and they have been trying to stop smugglers, arms
merchants, the opium traders, etc etc for centuries.

>It's been a bit rainy but the car is quite dry now.  I'm in San Diego
>and the temperature reached about 65 today.

I am sure you are in san diego and the temperature reached about 65
today.

>I can hear the fuel pump run when I turn on the key.  I pulled the
>fuel line, ran it to a jar and saw plenty of fuel come out when
>cranking.  I sprayed starter fluid in the intake and even into the
>cylinders and it doesn't seem to react at all.

el pesimista de A no cuenta con nada en un disco de plata excepto
deslustre

>I can feel air being pulled into the intake and exhaust coming out the
>pipe.  There doesn't seem to be any vacuum leak.

What does that dream suggest to you?

>The timing chain isn't broken and I can see the valves move.

Look down if you would know how high you stand.

>I don't have a c

Why are you asking if you do not see how you could have suddenly lost
compression on all four cylinders?

>I believe this all started because I ran it low on gas.  I've since
>added two gallons of premium from a gas can.  I don't drive the car
>much so I'm guessing it got some pretty cruddy fuel when it reached
>the bottom of the tank.  However, I'd think that's well been cleared
>out by now.  I'm still amazed that it doesn't respond to starter
>fluid.

Do you think you are still amazed that it does not respond to starter
fluid?

>Anybody have any ideas?

Do you have proof?

--
Lady Chatterly

"Then there's Lady Chatterly and you who only add weight to S.Taylor's
opinion of what women want." -- Society
 
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