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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / April 2005

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Looking to buy a 156

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BigAl - 01 Apr 2005 16:24 GMT
Hi All

With a budget of up to ?6,000UKP what would the group consider my best buy?

I'm leaning towards a 2000-2001 Velococe and I'd like a 1.8 but I'm not
seeing many available, unless I want to travel a bloody long way.

I'm going to take a look at a 1.6 2001 (Y) with 56Kon the clock, full
leather, metallic black tomorrow, dealer is asking ?5,500 with 36 month
warranty.  Seems a reasonable dealer price especially with a warranty of
that length, although I will pick over what that includes

I'm staying well clear of Selespeeds, and a 2.0 is not really an option as
they're a bit thirsty for me.  But I could do with some advice regarding the
1.6 and their performance, I'm well into my 40s now so I've no desire to
tear up the road, but just looking at a 156 one has to ask if that's big
enough.

All of the above is a roundabout way of asking if the 1.6 is underpowered.
I've trawled the groups and am I right in thinking that if you didn't know
you were in a 1.6 or 1.8 you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference?

Your thoughts

Cheers

Alan
Catman - 01 Apr 2005 17:30 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> warranty.  Seems a reasonable dealer price especially with a warranty of
> that length, although I will pick over what that includes

Cambelts and thrice cambelts.  Either evidence that they've been changed
(with tensioners) or get it thrown into the deal.

> I'm staying well clear of Selespeeds, and a 2.0 is not really an option as
> they're a bit thirsty for me.  But I could do with some advice regarding
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I've trawled the groups and am I right in thinking that if you didn't know
> you were in a 1.6 or 1.8 you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference?

Personally I'd go for a 1.8 (actually I'd probably go for 2l minimum, but we
all know what Freud thinks about that), but some people that I know, have a
great respect for and trust implicitly with all my cars reckon that the 1.6
is fine.  The power is not that different.
> Your thoughts

Saving the tough ones til last, huh? ;)

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Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

simon - 01 Apr 2005 17:53 GMT
Check also...

Creaky suspension -  get it out over some speed bumps at low speed.
Water ingress in footwells - check under any mats for dampness.
Make sure that the heater control selects all positions. (up, down,
screen..etc)

SS
BigAl - 02 Apr 2005 09:06 GMT
> Creaky suspension -  get it out over some speed bumps at low speed.
> Water ingress in footwells - check under any mats for dampness.
> Make sure that the heater control selects all positions. (up, down,
> screen..etc)

Many thanks for the top tips

Alan
BigAl - 02 Apr 2005 09:05 GMT
>> I'm going to take a look at a 1.6 2001 (Y) with 56Kon the clock, full
>> leather, metallic black tomorrow, dealer is asking ?5,500 with 36 month
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Cambelts and thrice cambelts.  Either evidence that they've been changed
> (with tensioners) or get it thrown into the deal.

Oh yes, well aware of the cambelt/tensioner issue, also suspension bushes
and curiously corrosion around mirrors and doorhandles. Will definitely want
to know if the cambelt's been done, or if not whether the warranty covers
it.

>> Your thoughts
>>
> Saving the tough ones til last, huh? ;)

Hey, no harm in giving the grey matter a workout ;-)

Thanks for the reply.

Alan
SteveH - 01 Apr 2005 19:41 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I'm staying well clear of Selespeeds, and a 2.0 is not really an option as
> they're a bit thirsty for me.

I wouldn't have a 1.6. For the engine size they have a fair bit of power
(120bhp-ish, ISTR), but it's a heavy car for that engine.

I think you'll find the 2.0 is no thirstier than the 1.6 in real world
driving.

A 1.8 would be a compromise, but why do that when buying an Alfa?

That does seem a reasonable price for a car with 3 year warranty,
though.
Signature

Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300
VW Golf GL Cabrio  -  Alfa 75 TS - VW Passat 1.8T 20V SE - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

BigAl - 02 Apr 2005 09:20 GMT
> I wouldn't have a 1.6. For the engine size they have a fair bit of power
> (120bhp-ish, ISTR), but it's a heavy car for that engine.

Hence my post

> I think you'll find the 2.0 is no thirstier than the 1.6 in real world
> driving.

Surprising. There is of course the maintenance costs, a local independent I
use warns that the oily bits for the 2.0 are a darn site more than the
1.8/1.6

> A 1.8 would be a compromise, but why do that when buying an Alfa?
>
> That does seem a reasonable price for a car with 3 year warranty,
> though.

Indeed, Oakwoods in Maidstone, UK www.oakwoodvs.com, they advertise on the
Autotrader website, only when you look at the vehicle details do you see
there's another ?495 to be added for the warranty.  I would assume that one
would need to keep the vehicle serviced with them to maintain the warranty,
depending on their servicing costs it may make the cost prohibitive. Never
heard of them before, but they market themselves as an Internet outfit and
require appointments for viewing.

Popping round after work today, if anyone's interested I'll let you know how
I get on.

Alan
buzzardous@yahoo.com - 03 Apr 2005 16:35 GMT
Alan,
What oily bits were they talking about?
On the contrary I think those driving the 156 1.6 are having the raw
deal.
The engines are mechanically very similar so the parts & labour costs
are the same. Oil change quantity is the same from 1.6 right through to
2.0.

Wear & tear items like brakes, shocks, suspension arms, bushes,
cambelts all identical.

Believe me, there will be no significant difference in fuel consumption
between the 1.6 & 2.0 cause they're pushing the same kerb weight
around.  If you do spend lots of time idling in traffic, then there
will be a difference but it'll be well worth the extra refinement.
Bear in mind the 2.0 has balancer belts (that make it smoother) and
much better low end torque (useful if you're not into caning the
engine).
And yes, stay away from the selespeed to keep your maintenance costs
down.

BC

> > I think you'll find the 2.0 is no thirstier than the 1.6 in real world
> > driving.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Alan
stuartalfa - 03 Apr 2005 17:30 GMT
Have you thought about insurance?
I got a few quotes from different insurers but the best was
www.directline.com
I had the choice 3 years ago of a 1.8/2.0 until they gave me a quote of
410 for a 2.0 & 420 for the 2.5 V6.(fully comp+protection)
Ok it likes the odd bit of fuel but if you just want to drive gently at
the age of 40+ there is no better way.
Which ever one you go for though you will be very happy so long as you
take your time & get the one you really want?
Good luck
stuart
Zathras - 03 Apr 2005 17:53 GMT
<Snip>
>Wear & tear items like brakes, shocks, suspension arms, bushes,
>cambelts all identical.

I don't think you're entirely correct here! Last time I looked at
this, the 1.6 and 1.8 had identical brakes. The 2.0 has bigger disks
and, IIRC, are ventilated instead of solid.

>Believe me, there will be no significant difference in fuel consumption
>between the 1.6 & 2.0 cause they're pushing the same kerb weight
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>much better low end torque (useful if you're not into caning the
>engine).

I would avoid a 1.6 or 1.8 on the simple basis that they are less
powerful with even less torque than the 2.0. Frankly, I don't think
the 2.0 is a powerful enough engine in a 156. I'd have a 1.9JTD
instead - at least it has some noticeable torque.

>And yes, stay away from the selespeed to keep your maintenance costs
>down.

Agreed..this is rule 1 for me!

Signature

Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

o - 01 Apr 2005 22:02 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Alan

fwiw - I'd prefer a bit more poke rather than my 1.8 Veloce - and check the
boot for a huge puddle of water in the spare type well .

o
BigAl - 02 Apr 2005 09:36 GMT
> fwiw - I'd prefer a bit more poke rather than my 1.8 Veloce - and check
> the
> boot for a huge puddle of water in the spare type well .

Thanks for the tip, I believe this is especially an issue on models with
rear spoilers.

Dunno about you but I find the high spoiler terribly garish (hope that
hasn't upset anyone, as if I do become a 156 owner no doubt I'll become a
regular poster), the low spoiler I can take or leave.

Every fibre of me is telling me to buy something else, but there's just
something about Alfas. Never owned one before btw.

Channel hopping yesterday I came across an episode of Top Gear from a couple
of years ago where they did a piece of the 147 GTA.  They put it up against
the Focus RS and Golf GTI, in every way ( apart from straight line speed )
the GTA came third[1], but when Clarkson and Hammond did their summing up
both said that, despite their better judgement, if it were their money
they'd buy the GTA.

Alan
Signature

[1] Smirked when Clarkson delived his appraisment of Alfa dealers. Widely
recongnised in the motor trade as "The worst in the world".

Zathras - 03 Apr 2005 19:27 GMT
<snip>
>I find the high spoiler terribly garish (hope that
>hasn't upset anyone, as if I do become a 156 owner no doubt I'll become a
>regular poster), the low spoiler I can take or leave.

The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
a device and Alfa upset a few folks by not fitting it for aesthetic
reasons, seemingly.

>Every fibre of me is telling me to buy something else, but there's just
>something about Alfas.

This is entirely normal.

> Never owned one before btw.

Same here.

>Channel hopping yesterday I came across an episode of Top Gear from a couple
>of years ago where they did a piece of the 147 GTA.  They put it up against
>the Focus RS and Golf GTI, in every way ( apart from straight line speed )
>the GTA came third[1], but when Clarkson and Hammond did their summing up
>both said that, despite their better judgement, if it were their money
>they'd buy the GTA.

Simple, I doubt they'd feel special with a Ford or VW in the driveway.
An Alfa can make you feel good in ways that other cars (no matter how
good) just don't. The weird sensations start when you begin to stare
at your car and admire the sheer genius that made such a beauty!

Alfa have a well-documented problem/feature with their suspension
setup for UK roads - body control! Sadly, the 156 and GT do not
control vertical body movement satisfactorily at speed over roads that
are not snooker-table-flat. Once you get a big enough engine, you can
scrape the bottom front of the car far too easily at speed over
certain roads (there's a bit on the M8 near Glasgow where I can bottom
out and scrape the underside). This feature can make A road speed and
overtaking a nightmare. If you're not interested in speed then it's
not an issue. The lighter 1.6 and non-lowered suspension ones do much
better in this respect but I'm not swapping mine for one!

Signature

Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

o - 05 Apr 2005 22:12 GMT
<snip>
>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
> a device and Alfa upset a few folks by not fitting it for aesthetic
> reasons, seemingly.
<snip>

Oh cheers ! Have a go at the bloke with the big spoiler.
Which for reference was less than half the price of any of the other
spoilers & is factory fitted so  matches perfectly.

With this kind of abuse I'll be getting a Vauxhall when the 156's lease is
up ;o)
Catman - 06 Apr 2005 06:46 GMT
> <snip>
>>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> With this kind of abuse I'll be getting a Vauxhall when the 156's lease is
> up ;o)

Well I *like* the big spoilers
Signature

Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

o - 06 Apr 2005 08:47 GMT
> > <snip>
> >>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Well I *like* the big spoilers

Size IS important :o)
Zathras - 06 Apr 2005 17:46 GMT
>> > <snip>
>> >>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Size IS important :o)

Huh? Are you guys just closet 'Chavs'??!!  ;-)

Signature

Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

Catman - 06 Apr 2005 18:00 GMT
>>> > <snip>
>>> >>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Huh? Are you guys just closet 'Chavs'??!!  ;-)

You seen my Burberry paint job? ;)
Signature

Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

o - 06 Apr 2005 18:33 GMT
> >>> > <snip>
> >>> >>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use such
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> >
> You seen my Burberry paint job? ;)

Weh-HEY !!! - oops sorry, you said "paint" ;o)
Catman - 06 Apr 2005 18:40 GMT
>> >>> > <snip>
>> >>> >>The high spoiler is hilarious! Only the GTA would be able to use
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Weh-HEY !!! - oops sorry, you said "paint" ;o)

You sound more like my wife every day :)
Signature

Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

BigAl - 03 Apr 2005 11:44 GMT
> I'm going to take a look at a 1.6 2001 (Y) with 56Kon the clock, full
> leather, metallic black tomorrow, dealer is asking ?5,500 with 36 month
> warranty.  Seems a reasonable dealer price especially with a warranty of
> that length, although I will pick over what that includes

Interior was very good, everything worked apart from the ashtray which
wouldn't close but that was about it. Exterior was a bit of a problem, both
spots broken, crack in the front bumper, bit of a dink on the bonnet and a
bit of imperfection in the paintwork on the rear near-side quarter, other
than that pretty good.

Oil was low which was worrying.

Drove nice, sounded nice, but I do have to say I think the 1.6 ain't big
enough.

However, it had done just over 60K, was flat black rather than metallic and
cambelt had not been changed. Warranty was not dependent on them doing the
servicing, just had to be done by a garage that was VAT registered, didn't
really go into any depth as to what it covered as we sort of grew apart over
price.  Said I wouldn't go any higher than ?5K in the condition it was it,
there then came the usual 'need to make a phone call if I'd commit to it
today', blah, blah.blah.

So we shook hands, thanked them for their time and walked.  It is after all
the first one I've looked at and it wasn't really what I wanted.

Have to say though the interior was sumptious and it felt great on the test
drive.  Will definitely keep looking for one.

Cheers

Alan
SteveH - 03 Apr 2005 11:59 GMT
> > I'm going to take a look at a 1.6 2001 (Y) with 56Kon the clock, full
> > leather, metallic black tomorrow, dealer is asking £5,500 with 36 month
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> bit of imperfection in the paintwork on the rear near-side quarter, other
> than that pretty good.

Doesn't sound good. Not a caring owner, anyway.

> Oil was low which was worrying.

I'd be very worried about that.

> Drove nice, sounded nice, but I do have to say I think the 1.6 ain't big
> enough.

As I thought - 120bhp in a car that size isn't anywhere near enough.
Even the 2lt TSpark in my (ex)155 didn't feel all that lively compared
with the same engine in a 75.

> However, it had done just over 60K, was flat black rather than metallic and
> cambelt had not been changed. Warranty was not dependent on them doing the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Have to say though the interior was sumptious and it felt great on the test
> drive.  Will definitely keep looking for one.

Try a 2lt. I really can't see servicing being all that much more
expensive and fuel consumption differences will be negligible as you
don't have to cane a 2lt to make reasonable progess.
Signature

Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300
VW Golf GL Cabrio  -  Alfa 75 TS - VW Passat 1.8T 20V SE - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

WavyDavy - 03 Apr 2005 18:19 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I'm leaning towards a 2000-2001 Velococe and I'd like a 1.8 but I'm not
> seeing many available, unless I want to travel a bloody long way.

> All of the above is a roundabout way of asking if the 1.6 is underpowered.
> I've trawled the groups and am I right in thinking that if you didn't know
> you were in a 1.6 or 1.8 you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference?
>
> Your thoughts

I tried the 1.8 and was quite inmpressed with the genral specof most of the
2/hand examples available...  But when I test drove the JTD140, I decided
that the 1.8 was just not pokey enough in 'real world' situations (like
overtaking on a dual carriageway from 55/60mph+)....

So I bought a JTD[1].

Of course I read Quentin WIllson today and he reckons all 156s are looking
fragile price-wise and the diesels are slipping the most...  Bugger.

Not much help, I know, and you'd probbly not find a 140JTD for under ?6k
now, but if you wait a few months......

Dave

[1] I may need to emphasise that I have always hated diesels in the past and
am a bit of a fan of peaky two-stroke bikes and high revving/stressed petrol
engines in cars etc.  But for an exciting, fun, good-looking, but still
remarkably frugal car the JTD won me over.
Phil Sawyer - 03 Apr 2005 19:12 GMT
> I'm staying well clear of Selespeeds, and a 2.0 is not really an option as
> they're a bit thirsty for me.  But I could do with some advice regarding
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Your thoughts

I've had a 1.6 Lusso saloon for nearly four years now. As other posters have
said, 120hp is actually very good for that size of engine - when I first had
it, to get that sort of output from other marques you were looking at 1.8s
and 2.0s. Plus, for its size the 156 is quite a light car - I'm sure I read
somewhere it weighs less than a VW Golf (mind you, these days, what
doesn't?)

To be honest, on most days I haven't really experienced any noticeable lack
of power. However, low down in the rev range it can be a bit gutless,
especially with the air-con on. It's not so much a case of the engine
lacking power, it's simply that you do need to give it a bit of a rev to
reach the power band, whereas I guess in a larger-engined 156 the power is a
bit more accessible. If you're not used to the Alfa mode of driving then it
can take some getting used to!

The other problem I sometimes used to get was Neds in average cars
(particularly debadged BMWs, it seems) spotting the 1.6 badge and thinking
it gave them carte-blanche to tailgate and try overtaking me. Dropping a cog
normally made them disappear into a small dot in my rear-view mirror. I did
toy with the idea of debadging my car but I wanted to remain honest (plus
it's a lease car).

However, all this pales into insignificance when judged against all the
positive points. I still think it's a stunning looking car, and the handling
is sublime regardless of the engine size. My only regret is that when my
four-year lease runs out next month I won't be replacing it with another, as
Alfa appear to be taking forever to bring out the 157/159 (or whatever it's
being called today).

I'll miss it when it goes.  :(

Signature

Phil Sawyer

Never knowingly underweight

WavyDavy - 03 Apr 2005 20:15 GMT
> However, all this pales into insignificance when judged against all the
> positive points. I still think it's a stunning looking car, and the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I'll miss it when it goes.  :(

But you need to wait anyway...  Get something on a short term lease and then
go the whole hog for the 3.2 AWD 159 next year...  :))  But in the meantime
take a  facelift 156.  Infact, can't you negotiate a deal for a 159 where
they supply a  similar car for now up until the one you *really* want is
available...?

Dave
Ivan - 06 Apr 2005 19:07 GMT
> But you need to wait anyway...  Get something on a short term lease and
> then go the whole hog for the 3.2 AWD 159 next year...  :))  But in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Dave

:-)))   http://www.sniffpetrol.com/latenews0504_03.jpg
Signature

Ivan.

Alfa GT
Ex 156 2.5 V6 Veloce
Ex 156 Selespeed (RIP 22 May 03)
Ex 145 QV
Ex 33 16v QV
Ex 33 QV series 1

Catman - 06 Apr 2005 19:35 GMT
>> But you need to wait anyway...  Get something on a short term lease and
>> then go the whole hog for the 3.2 AWD 159 next year...  :))  But in the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> :-)))   http://www.sniffpetrol.com/latenews0504_03.jpg

LOL
Signature

Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Halmyre - 06 Apr 2005 19:39 GMT
>>But you need to wait anyway...  Get something on a short term lease and
>>then go the whole hog for the 3.2 AWD 159 next year...  :))  But in the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> :-)))   http://www.sniffpetrol.com/latenews0504_03.jpg

ROFL!

Bonus points for reminding me that there's a new sniffpetrol page; I'd
forgotten...

Halmyre
WavyDavy - 06 Apr 2005 22:34 GMT
>> But you need to wait anyway...  Get something on a short term lease and
>> then go the whole hog for the 3.2 AWD 159 next year...  :))  But in the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> :-)))   http://www.sniffpetrol.com/latenews0504_03.jpg

..If only...

The 159 appears to have....  *shock*....  normal rear door handles...

Now the 159 *may* be a good car, but getting rid of the 'hidden' rear door
handle just when even Honda are realising how cool they are is a seriously
bad move, IMHO...

Then again, as Honda now look to be using them in their new Civic, maybe
*not* having handles like that is so cool, I'm too old to realise it...

Dave
 
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