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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / May 2005Tyre Advice Anyone?
147 1.6 TS, 3door. Nov 2003 18,890 miles in the UK Tyres Dunlop Sport 2000E, 205/55R16 91V Front & Rear from new. Front tyres approaching legal minimum and need replacing. Any advice regarding other Brand/Type of replacement tyre. DO NOT intend replacing rear tyres at present as they still have plenty of tread. Any advice much appreciated.  SignaturePaul Woodsford Remove NOSPAM to reply. > 147 1.6 TS, 3door. Nov 2003 18,890 miles in the UK > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Any advice much appreciated. Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the frint tyres put diagonal to the rear and vice versa. > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the > frint > tyres put diagonal to the rear and vice versa. NEVER diagonally change tyres; that's an old and old fashioned idea. Keep them on the same side as most tyres are directionally bound nowadays. If you put a tyre on the "wrong" side, it will be turning backwards when you are driving ahead and i.e. the rain water will not be drained sufficiently. And, although it sounds crazy for a front wheel drive car, on ANY car keep the best tyres on the rear!! So in your case, change the rear to front and put the new tyres on the rear. Several threads in this NG have explained this in the pat, I won't repeat that here. For a 1.6 the tyres are not that important. Most brands/types will do. If you're content with the present ones, I would suggest to buy 2 new onse; at least you'll have the same tyres front and rear which is the best for balance. Nevertheless: IMHO Alfa's perform best on Michelins. Although often the most expensive (less cheap) tyre, the mileage is the highest, so per mile/km they often are the cheapest in the end. Don't forget to have the rear tyres balanced when you put them in frotn and have the alignment checked. Mostly front tyres are unevenly worn due to (slight) mis-alignment. SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) > > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the > > frint [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Several threads in this NG have explained this in the pat, I won't repeat > that here. You dont change the tyre with the rim, only the tyre!!!! Then you dont flip it!!!!!!!!!!! It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear, because you have to have better grip on front tyres!! > > > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the > > > frint [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear, > because you have to have better grip on front tyres!! it's not stupid to have the best tires on the rear - even for front wheel drive. With best tires in front, in case of an emergency break, your car starts spinning. Always put the best tires in rear - they teach you that in advanced driver classes (slip course etc) cheers, Kurt > > > > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the > > > > frint [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Always put the best tires in rear - they teach you that in advanced driver > classes (slip course etc) Yeah, great on wet surfaces.... ;)) >> > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the >> > frint [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >You dont change the tyre with the rim, only the tyre!!!! >Then you dont flip it!!!!!!!!!!! ???? If you change a wheel diagonally (change car sides) you turn the tyre and wheel around. Go and think about it! For a directional tyre, it's illegal to have them on the wrong side of a car in the UK IIRC. Usually they have 'outside' marked on one side. >It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear, >because you have to have better grip on front tyres!! Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You put your best tyres on the rear so the front looses grip first (hopefully). This you can see and react to in a way you can't if the rear goes first. The reasoning applies for all road vehicles. It's all been explained here, and in other places, several times so, if you need further clarification, do a google search. SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) > Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced > thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > been explained here, and in other places, several times so, if you > need further clarification, do a google search. I accept that losing the rear can be harder to control, however, the majority of "offs" IMHO are through simply understeering off. Having said all that there are many other factors such as weight distribution (having a 20 odd stone of people in the back, a boot full of compost etc.) that probably have a greater influence. Add to that the nut behind the wheel doing daft things like abruptly braking mid bend or failing to read road conditions (the sign said 40mph therefore I must be able to go round this bend in a monsoon at 40mph) and I am unconvinced a small difference between front and back tyres really make the difference between spinning off and staying in control. However, a soft front and a hard rear maybe sufficient to change the balance. >> Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced >> thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I accept that losing the rear can be harder to control, however, the >majority of "offs" IMHO are through simply understeering off. That's not the point though. If you're going so fast that the car will understeer off the road, having the good tyres anywhere probably will not help much. >Having said >all that there are many other factors such as weight distribution (having a >20 odd stone of people in the back, a boot full of compost etc.) that >probably have a greater influence. Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you put your tyres - maybe their pressures though! >Add to that the nut behind the wheel >doing daft things like abruptly braking mid bend or failing to read road >conditions (the sign said 40mph therefore I must be able to go round this >bend in a monsoon at 40mph) and I am unconvinced a small difference between >front and back tyres really make the difference between spinning off and >staying in control. Having driven non-Alfas in the past, I can assure you that I've experienced a huge difference. The 156 isn't too bothered, being better balanced than some, but it's max cornering speed is also poor compared to many cars these days. >However, a soft front and a hard rear maybe sufficient to change the >balance. I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear differences. SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) > Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you > put your tyres - maybe their pressures though! Considering the efforts manufacturers go to optimise weight distribution I would suggest it does make a significant difference to the way a car handles. Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy! > I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of > modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear > differences. I would say the reverse. The front end grip of my 156 with Bridgestones S03s is incredibly different then the Contis it replaced (when new). Stick some Dunlops on the front and it would understeer more. Stick some cheapo no name tyres on the front and Goodyear F1s on the back and now check out the balance... Compared with worn tyres of the same type on one axle and new ones on the other I believe the difference is less pronounced. Cheers Tony >> Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you >> put your tyres - maybe their pressures though! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy! Well..it's fine by me if you want to swap your tyres round every time you load or unload your Transit! >> I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of >> modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >tyres on the front and Goodyear F1s on the back and now check out the >balance... But you've now expanded the argument into comparing completely different tyres from different manufacturers. I was talking about softness vs hardness. <snip> SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) > >Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy! > > Well..it's fine by me if you want to swap your tyres round every time > you load or unload your Transit! The point was the weight distribution makes more difference then the relative tread levels front & rear > >> I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of > >> modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > different tyres from different manufacturers. I was talking about > softness vs hardness. Well softer tyres = gripper tyres. Mixing new Pirelli P-Zeros and new p6000s compared with new and worn P-Zeros would in my opinion have a greater potential effect on balance. Cheers Tony >> >Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The point was the weight distribution makes more difference then the >relative tread levels front & rear Yes but do remember that the OP has a 147 and not a Transit and people don't normally buy 147s if they're going to be loading them up heavily! <snip> >Well softer tyres = gripper tyres. Not always. Tread pattern, size and quality have an effect also. >Mixing new Pirelli P-Zeros and new p6000s >compared with new and worn P-Zeros would in my opinion have a greater >potential effect on balance. We're just going round in opinionated circles now. I'm not convinced by your arguments and you don't believe mine so..each to his own. SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) > We're just going round in opinionated circles now. Opinionated circles on Usenet - never! > I'm not convinced > by your arguments and you don't believe mine so..each to his own. Fair enough :) Cheers Tony > It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear, > because you have to have better grip on front tyres!! News, Like I wrote, take some time reading earlier posts in this NG about where the best tyres should be befor you start shouting about things you obviously have no knowledge and experience on ....... SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) > 147 1.6 TS, 3door. Nov 2003 18,890 miles in the UK > > Any advice much appreciated. I got Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s on my 156 and they have pretty good grip. Got them off the internet from mytyres.co.uk and got them fitted at a local wheel shop for £10 each. Ended up 40% cheaper then National or similar. "Simon" <simoncar@NotThisBittotalise.co.uk> wrote in message > I got Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3s on my 156 and they have pretty good grip. Got > them off the internet from mytyres.co.uk and got them fitted at a local > wheel shop for £10 each. Ended up 40% cheaper then National or similar. I'll second that. I've just had them fitted to the front for a second time. Good grip in all conditions and they seem quieter than the factory fitted Firestones and the Avons I've had in the past. Having said all this, I have the 2.4jtd and do a good mix of all driving and get about 10k miles from a set. Cheers Simon C 156 2.4JTD V1 (2002) To reply: remove nospam. from the address A few years ago, I studied some brands/types since my previous Michelin tyres had no minimum tread after just 7.000 miles! I decided to get me some new ones, Goodyear Eagle NCT5, and I still have them, after 25.000 miles. SignatureBarry http://bere-design.tk > 147 1.6 TS, 3door. Nov 2003 18,890 miles in the UK > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Any advice much appreciated. >A few years ago, I studied some brands/types since my previous Michelin > tyres had no minimum tread after just 7.000 miles! Don't try to let me believe that had anything to do with the tyres. MUST have been a hughe out-of-line problem SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) No, seriously, no out-of-line problems. But what was the case: only the side sections (inner en outer) were flat (<2mm), the mid section had approx. 4mm. So my guess was that I drove to hard through corners? The tyres weren't adjusted in-line afterwards, and the next set of tyres didn't have these problems. SignatureBerry http://bere-design.tk > > >A few years ago, I studied some brands/types since my previous Michelin > > tyres had no minimum tread after just 7.000 miles! > > Don't try to let me believe that had anything to do with the tyres. > MUST have been a hughe out-of-line problem > No, seriously, no out-of-line problems. > But what was the case: only the side sections (inner en outer) were flat > (<2mm), the mid section had approx. 4mm. So my guess was that I drove to > hard through corners? The tyres weren't adjusted in-line afterwards, and > the > next set of tyres didn't have these problems. 100% sure that that is a tyre pressure problem. This indicates a much too low pressure!!! Car should have been heavy steering as well. Cornering too fast or out-of-line will show wear on the outside. SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) okay, it sounds reasonable to me. Never mind, this was 3 years ago... SignatureBerry http://bere-design.tk > > > No, seriously, no out-of-line problems. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Car should have been heavy steering as well. > Cornering too fast or out-of-line will show wear on the outside. > 147 1.6 TS, 3door. Nov 2003 18,890 miles in the UK > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Any advice much appreciated. Bear in mind Dunlops are hard wearing tyres. Fitting softer, grippier tyres to the front to replace hard worn ones may dramatically change the balance of the car. I would not agree that a 1.6 doesn't matter, you can corner just as hard as a 3.2! I was advised by one tyre fitter to fit Dunlops at the front and softer tyres at the rear to prolong tyre life. As I was going in for 4 tyres I preferred to get 4 Bridgestone Potenzas S03s all round and am really happy with them. I will swap the fronts with the backs once the fronts are half worn. Tyre fitters are keen to promote grippier tyres at the rear to prevent oversteer. Personally I think this is for the less clued up driver who lifts off or brakes mid bend in the wet and blames the tyres for spinning off backwards. However, if you are used to worn hard tyres at the front and stick a set of Goodyear F1s or Bridgestone S03s on there you might find a very different handling car underneath you. Hope this helps Tony |
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