Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / May 2005
Buying 156 or147
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Barnes - 21 May 2005 23:32 GMT Hi All, Need advice please. I'm looking for a car change in the UK. We need a family car and a 156 ( first choice ) or a 147 fits the bill. I need an honest opinion about buying an Alfa, I've asked advice in newsgroups and reviews but replies are scathing about their reliability and costs to keep on the road. I've a friend who runs local dealership who won't buy any Alfa at auction due to reliability problems.I was tempted by a 156 he was selling last year but it stood on his forecourt for 7 weeks due to key / immobiliser problems. I'm running a V6 Omega at the moment and apart from fuel costs it's been pretty good to run in 4 years ownership. I've looked around other options but keep returning to the Alfa 156. I don't need to explain about being seduced with it's looks. My only doubt is the reliabilty.Don't fancy being off the road for weeks or shelling out on repairs. There seems to be a mixed bag of opinions out there.I'm looking for a UK 1.6 or 1.8 car for £9000 02 -03.To be honest if it's only niggly faults I can put up with those. Cheers.
Catman - 22 May 2005 00:33 GMT > Hi All, > Need advice please. I'm looking for a car change in the UK. We [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > 1.6 or 1.8 car for £9000 02 -03.To be honest if it's only niggly faults I > can put up with those. Personally I'd spend less and get a 2l with toys.
The engines are pretty strong as long as they've have their oil changed. Make sure that he belts / tensioners have been changed as well
SteveH will be along in a bit to explain what keys you need.
FWIW I've only ever driven Alfas, and I've never been let down by one except: a) A fault that I knew existed, but didn't get fixed b) Total, *complex* rebuild which had some teething troubles.
HTT
 Signature Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
stuartalfa - 22 May 2005 04:45 GMT I have had my V6 156 for 3 years now & its done 930000 miles & all i have had to have fixed is a new clutch & new bushes (The squeak) not bad when you think its not driven like a Mondeo, you no what i mean. To see what she looks like after that amount of mileage see this link. http://www.carkudos.com/car_67.html
SteveH - 22 May 2005 10:08 GMT > > There seems to be a mixed bag of opinions out there.I'm looking for a UK > > 1.6 or 1.8 car for £9000 02 -03.To be honest if it's only niggly faults I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > SteveH will be along in a bit to explain what keys you need. Right on cue.
OK, I've got the definitive word on the keys from a former Alfa franchise warranty specialist.....
Pre 2000 model year you need 2 red keys and a brown 'master' key. If you have any issues with the immobiliser / ECU and don't have a brown master, then it's £1k for a new ECU and lockset. The master can't be ordered from Alfa / Fiat, however, it is now possible to copy a non-master for spares. The car would have to be *very* cheap for me to take the gamble on having no master key.
From 2000-on there was a move away from master keys, so you can order spares from any dealer by producing the relevent documentation.
Aside from this, I'd agree with Catman. I finally got to drive a 156 yesterday, it was a 2lt TSpark. Personally, I wouldn't settle for anything less than that. 1.8 would be 'ok' - with 144bhp it's not far off the peak power of a 2.0, but lacking in torque. The 1.6 is a budget car for reps. who want something with more style than a top of the range Focus.
Personally, I wouldn't spend that much money on one, when very nice 2lt Tsparks are available from £3k upwards.
 Signature Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 Alfa 75 TSpark - Passat 1.8T - Golf Cabrio - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #
MarkK - 22 May 2005 11:58 GMT > > > There seems to be a mixed bag of opinions out there.I'm looking for a UK > > > 1.6 or 1.8 car for £9000 02 -03.To be honest if it's only niggly faults I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > OK, I've got the definitive word on the keys from a former Alfa > franchise warranty specialist..... Someone's wrong about this...
> Pre 2000 model year you need 2 red keys and a brown 'master' key. If you > have any issues with the immobiliser / ECU and don't have a brown [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > From 2000-on there was a move away from master keys, so you can order > spares from any dealer by producing the relevent documentation. My understanding is that all 156s are of the newer type, i.e. supplied with 2 keys, with no master key applicable. My 1999 156 certainly has the newer system. AIUI the older master key system was fitted to the 145/146/155/164 but not newer models like the 156/166/147. I had it on my 1996 164 and am familiar with the ins & outs. ISTBC about earlier 156s, of course.
All irrelevant to the OP anyway, as he'll be spending £9k which means he won't be looking at older cars.
> Aside from this, I'd agree with Catman. I finally got to drive a 156 > yesterday, it was a 2lt TSpark. Personally, I wouldn't settle for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Personally, I wouldn't spend that much money on one, when very nice 2lt > Tsparks are available from £3k upwards. Agreed. Also the 2.0 has engine balancer shafts, making it super smooth, better brakes, and better standard equipment. The 2.0 is the pick of the bunch, which is why I have one :-) I do very occasionally miss the V6 in my previous 164, but not when I'm going round bends or paying the bills...
However, again, I think we're talking 2.0 JTS rather than TS for £9k.
Regarding reliability, mine's had 2 faults in 6 years/33k miles: alternator failed last year and the previous owner had to have the throttle position sensor (or something similar) changed under warranty. The alternator failure was immediately after I washed the engine bay, and could well have been down to water ingress, but I can't be 100% certain.
Generally they seem pretty reliable; a bit worse than average, perhaps, but average is pretty good these days. If you get the cambelt and tensioner changed every 36k miles and regularly check the oil you'll only have the suspension bushes to worry about, which applies to most cars.
Mark
Antti - 22 May 2005 20:58 GMT MarkK said the following on 22.5.2005 13:58:
>>Pre 2000 model year you need 2 red keys and a brown 'master' key. If you >>have any issues with the immobiliser / ECU and don't have a brown [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > but not newer models like the 156/166/147. I had it on my 1996 164 and am > familiar with the ins & outs. ISTBC about earlier 156s, of course. yep only 2 keys and key code card
Antti 156V6 -98
SteveH - 22 May 2005 20:59 GMT > > OK, I've got the definitive word on the keys from a former Alfa > > franchise warranty specialist..... > > Someone's wrong about this... It appears that the 156 was the first of the new generation cars, but anything introduced pre-156 had the Fiat CODE immobiliser, and does, indeed need a master key.
Just to confuse matters.
 Signature Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 Alfa 75 TSpark - Passat 1.8T - Golf Cabrio - COSOC KOTL BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #
Zathras - 22 May 2005 08:59 GMT >Hi All, > Need advice please. I'm looking for a car change in the UK. We >need a family car and a 156 ( first choice ) or a 147 fits the bill. A 147 as a 'family' car..have you seen the size of the boot? How 'tiny' is your 'family'? Even the 156 is compact, but bearable, for very small family use. Internally, a 156 is 1 inch wider than a Mk3 Astra but shorter.
>I need >an honest opinion about buying an Alfa, I've asked advice in newsgroups and >reviews but replies are scathing about their reliability and costs to keep >on the road. These cars have, time and time again, proven to be unreliable and expensive to run. Look at every big survey of users. However, many do have reliable Alfas - like me. Mine is vastly more reliable than the last car I had, which was an Astra! The big 'but' is that I didn't go for the delicate petrol engine. The V6 2.5 isn't as delicate as the twin sparks but drinks fuel and wasn't a great seller so was dropped by Alfa.
>I've a friend who >runs local dealership who won't buy any Alfa at auction due to reliability >problems. That's probably more because he has difficulty fixing them if they're broken..now for the proof...
>I was tempted by a 156 he was selling last year but it stood on his >forecourt for 7 weeks due to key / immobiliser problems. ..if he puts a broken car on his Forecourt, that's hardly surprising!
>I'm running a V6 Omega at the moment and apart from fuel costs it's been >pretty good to run in 4 years ownership. >I've looked around other options but keep returning to the Alfa 156. I don't >need to explain about being seduced with it's looks. >My only doubt is the reliabilty.Don't fancy being off the road for weeks or >shelling out on repairs. Understandable.
>There seems to be a mixed bag of opinions out there.I'm looking for a UK 1.6 >or 1.8 car for £9000 02 -03.To be honest if it's only niggly faults I can >put up with those. Ouch! Gutless engines and you'll have to watch the oil level EVERY DAY you drive it. I hope you get one that hasn't been run low on oil at any point. The 2 litre is better (I agree with Catman) but the diesels are better again IMHO. Gutsy, lively performers and a more reliable engine. Cambelts have a better chance of lasting UK specified intervals and they don't drink oil. Fuel consumption is much better than petrols too.
If you must get a newer one, the 1.9 JTD (140hp) is great but I prefer the sound of the 2.4 5 cylinder. I've never heard a 4 cylinder diesel sound I liked.
 Signature Z Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
Mr Flipflops - 22 May 2005 16:44 GMT > Hi All, > Need advice please. I'm looking for a car change in the UK. We [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > can put up with those. > Cheers. I've had my nearly 96000 mile (84k at purchase), 2000 X reg V6 since last June. Here's a little run down of what I've spent on it. I'll split it into two sections, one for items which would have had to be replaced on any car, and one for Alfa specifics.
Any car expenditure :
New brake pads and discs all round (Delphi ones from www.buypartsby.co.uk and DIY (less than £200 anyway), or silly money at dealers £60 for ONE disc). New silencer (s/steel deep tone one from Autodelta, £200 or so) (worthwhile if you're planning on keeping the car) New intermediate silencer (£120 from independent, third party product) New catalytic converter (£155 from independent, third party product) New wheel bearing (£120 I think, from independent). 84k service at Alfa dealer (think it was around £190 or so)
There are no prices here that are over and above what you might pay for a Ford under similar circumstances, until you start looking at timing belt change prices, particularly on a V6. I would imagine the 2.0 and below are not so bad in that respect.
Alfa specific :
Air conditioning hot/cold actuator failure (£120 at dealer) New undertray for engine (£80 at dealer, DIY fitment)
Driving hard and fast over undulating surfaces can ground the tray out, depending on your suspension, it's a notorious 156 trait. From what I've read, the air con is also weak hence it's listed here, in practice it's fine.
So, am I p'd off yet? Nope, I wanted one of these since I saw it on TV back in 1997/98, and I still stare at it.
If you can get one with a full Alfa history, and it's been looked after, you should be perfectly fine. After that, maintain the service record at an authorised Alfa outlet, but get worn and weathered components (exhausts, brakes etc) done at an independent. Engine work, well, I'd stick with Alfa for that... And if you get a lowish mileage one, then you shouldn't need to spend as much as me in your first year.
If you have a laptop, I'd recommend getting Alfadiag and an interface to give the ECU a regular check up for faults.
Enjoy your new toy.
Rgds
Stuart
Ultrasound - 22 May 2005 22:49 GMT Hi Stuart.
> If you have a laptop, I'd recommend getting Alfadiag and an interface to > give the ECU a regular check up for faults. I have just had to get my ECU re-set for the 156 airbag fault and it cost me £40.00. I'm quite clued up technically, and would love to know where I can obtain the Alfadiag software and interface cable spec in case I need to get it done again (plus I'd love to see what's going on!). Do you have any info on this?
Cheers.
Ultra
Mr Flipflops - 23 May 2005 13:29 GMT > Hi Stuart. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ultra Go here for Alfadiag : http://www.alfadiag.net
As for the interface, I have tried the Optoone (link to it from the alfadiag site) and it works fine. The one I have now, purely because I might want to use it on other vehicles, is this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30921&item=7976271047&rd=1
Remember you will need a real serial port, USB adaptors will not work.
Rgds
Stuart
Mr Flipflops - 23 May 2005 13:35 GMT >> Hi Stuart. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Stuart Ooops, that last one I mentioned, seems to now be USB. I'd email him and ask about the serial version. The USB one will most likely only work with VAG-COM, and VAG-COM does not work with Alfas.
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