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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / July 2005Of cambelts and undertrays...
Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K is the change interval for cambelts on the Twin Sparks. I was told that choosing to change it before then was "optional". Is then paying the £2k fitted replacement engine when it snaps also "optional" I wonder.... And then the undertray: often battered and in this case...missing altogether. I was assured that it was simply not needed and no, they wouldn't throw in the cost of a replacement undertray. Granted we'd squeezed the price down hard before this but really - not necessary at all? Opinions, guys???  SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note > how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > squeezed the price down hard before this but really - not necessary at > all? Opinions, guys??? The undertray keeps crap off the engine. You will suffer greater exposure to the elements and corrosion, where otherwise there would have been none. So, it is necessary if you want the vehicle to last for it's normal service life. Based on what you've just said, I wouldn't buy a car off of them, considering a new undertray is £80 or so it's not much to ask. Besides, how do you know the mounting points are ok without it? I have at least one seized torx bolt at the front of mine, which will have to be drilled out. On the timing belt, well, I was also told it was "optional" on the V6 but on the 2.0 I'd be more cautious. Rgds Stuart >> Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note >> how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > service > life. I think that may be a bit of an extreme reaction. I really doubt that you're going to have the car fall apart noticeably quicker without a tray than with. There could well be an aerodynamic benefit though, but that could well be even more negligible. > Based on what you've just said, I wouldn't buy a car off of them, > considering a new undertray is £80 or so it's not much to ask. Besides, > how > do you know the mounting points are ok without it? I have at least one > seized torx bolt at the front of mine, which will have to be drilled out. > On the timing belt, well, I was also told it was "optional" on the V6 but > on the 2.0 I'd be more cautious. Don't think I'd leave mine that long either. SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk >> The undertray keeps crap off the engine. You will suffer greater >> exposure [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> seized torx bolt at the front of mine, which will have to be drilled >> out. Thanks guys. The car with the missing undertray is otherwise very nice with a very complete history including new wishbones etc and given that we got cost of two replacement tyres thrown in (more expensive than one undertray) I'm minded to say take the thing .. but the issue is should my friend stump up the cash for an undertray..? >> On the timing belt, well, I was also told it was "optional" on the V6 >> but >> on the 2.0 I'd be more cautious. > > Don't think I'd leave mine that long either. Well one reason I'm minded to take the car with the missing undertray is that it had the belts replaced at 36K - "optionally" at the former owner's instence.... I just think its ludicrous after all the coverage on this that AR main dealers still tell people buying Twin Sparks , be they 2.0, 1.8 or 1.6, that 72K is OK for the 2.0 belts or 1.8/1.6 belt. When a catalogue of failures at anything from 42K upwards says it ain't. At least the collective inadequacies of the dealer network ensures that we'll never be as numerous as BMW drivers.... which is rather nice providing you can find someone (almost certainly NOT a main dealer..) to properly look after your baby-eating serpent. Barry SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> The undertray keeps crap off the engine. You will suffer greater >>> exposure [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > undertray) I'm minded to say take the thing .. but the issue is should my > friend stump up the cash for an undertray..? If he can afford it, yes. Makes the engine look neater IYSWIM. >>> On the timing belt, well, I was also told it was "optional" on the V6 >>> but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > find someone (almost certainly NOT a main dealer..) to properly look after > your baby-eating serpent. Cambelts plus wishbones at a good price sounds like a good deal IMHO SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk >> Thanks guys. The car with the missing undertray is otherwise very nice >> with a very complete history including new wishbones etc and given that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If he can afford it, yes. Makes the engine look neater IYSWIM. Agreed. He will. >>>> On the timing belt, well, I was also told it was "optional" on the V6 >>>> but [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Cambelts plus wishbones at a good price sounds like a good deal IMHO I agree Catman. And so does my friend. The car will be bought. But the point is that this value relied on the efforts and pocket of the previous owner in spite of official dealer advice. So once bought the car will be tended elsewhere.... SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> Thanks guys. The car with the missing undertray is otherwise very nice >>> with a very complete history including new wishbones etc and given that [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > owner in spite of official dealer advice. So once bought the car will be > tended elsewhere.... Wise, I feel. SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk You can get alloy ones now for just a tad over £100 and they last a lot longer ... just waiting for two more fitting holes to break off mine and that's the route I'm taking .... Gazza > >>> Thanks guys. The car with the missing undertray is otherwise very nice > >>> with a very complete history including new wishbones etc and given that [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > Wise, I feel. 147 Euros to be precise .. inc P&P > You can get alloy ones now for just a tad over £100 and they last a lot > longer ... just waiting for two more fitting holes to break off mine and [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > > > Wise, I feel. > And then the undertray: often battered and in this case...missing > altogether. I was assured that it was simply not needed and no, they > wouldn't throw in the cost of a replacement undertray. Aha, you've run into that special 156 that also doesn't need an engine, gearbox, spare tyre...... ;-) Why do you think Alfa has gone through such trouble engineering one? For an ignorant "dealer" telling that you don't need it....... Choose another dealer please. (his "knowledge" of the cambelt is a signal too!!) SignatureCiao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) Now: Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005) Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4) And former owner of: 156SW / 2 155's / 75 / Giulietta / 2 33's / 3 Sud's / Alfetta GT / Montreal / 2000GTV / 1300GTJ / 2 Giulia Super's > Aha, you've run into that special 156 that also doesn't need an engine, > gearbox, spare tyre...... ;-) > Why do you think Alfa has gone through such trouble engineering one? > For an ignorant "dealer" telling that you don't need it....... > Choose another dealer please. (his "knowledge" of the cambelt is a signal > too!!) Sadly, alfistagj, the tale I relate is all to typical of Alfa dealers in the UK. They are, by common assent, abysmal. The cars win sales for Alfa and the dealers then do everything in their power to lose those sales. As Cupra's tale suggests, they almost all seem to try to push the 72K cambelt swap interval. And I'm afraid that to avoid product ignorance in the retail car trade here in the UK would mean never buying an Alfa Romeo at all........ Perhaps things are better in Holland?? Perhaps the reason I had so few problems with my own 156 is that it was PDI'd & supplied by a German dealer, and that after a year or so of official UK dealer "care" (at least they never actually damaged the thing), I have since used an independent specialist. Barry SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to > note how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line > that 72K is the change interval for cambelts on the Twin Sparks. I > was told that choosing to change it before then was "optional". Is > then paying the £2k fitted replacement engine when it snaps also > "optional" I wonder.... Just had my 147 36K service so I took the opportunity to ask.... as you say, 72K is still official although the service receptionist stated that a lot of their customers had it changed at 60K (not sure if they quietly recommend it...) At least I'll get to 72K before the warranty runs out..... > Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note > how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > squeezed the price down hard before this but really - not necessary at > all? Opinions, guys??? Aluminium replacement: http://www.alfabbs.fi/album_pic.php?pic_id=1141 Laser cut, 2 mm aluminium, fits to: 156 1.6-2.0 TS/JTS 156 2.5 156 GTA 147 1.6-2.0 147 GTA GT 2.0 GT 3.2 Ask from guys in http://www.alfabbs.fi Juuso GT 2005, rosso >Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note >how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K is >the change interval for cambelts on the Twin Sparks. I was told that >choosing to change it before then was "optional". Is then paying the £2k >fitted replacement engine when it snaps also "optional" I wonder.... It's the official line though. Look in the service book - it's all detailed in there. >And then the undertray: often battered and in this case...missing >altogether. I was assured that it was simply not needed But, that's not the whole story though. The 156 is famous (and with heavier engines, infamous) for battering its undertray on undulating UK road surfaces or even heavily cambered roads. Scrape the undertray on a rough road surface and you get a scratch. Scrape the sump and you could be unlucky enough to rupture it and lose the oil - bye bye engine and for 80UKP??? If you're really unlucky, you could bash the sump hard enough to impact on the rotating big ends - nice! My dealer says that the undertray makes a huge difference as if forms a kind of sacrificial sliding surface (think of the soles on your shoes protecting your feet). Get the new-style plastic one and not the old brittle fibre one if you can. > and no, they >wouldn't throw in the cost of a replacement undertray. Granted we'd >squeezed the price down hard before this but really - not necessary at >all? Opinions, guys??? Fit it or regret it? SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) >> Recently been helping a friend choose a used 156 and was amused to note >> how the official dealer network - even now - holds to the line that 72K [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's the official line though. Look in the service book - it's all > detailed in there. Well, yes that's the case in my 2000 car. And in my friend's 2002 car. But I understood from AutoItalia that the current official situation from 03 onwards was inspect and if necessary change at 36 and change anyway at 72. And there's a consensus in this group that one is taking a risk going past the 40K mark without a swap. And a sorry tale of engine failures incurred from observing that 72k limit. >> And then the undertray: often battered and in this case...missing >> altogether. I was assured that it was simply not needed [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Fit it or regret it? We decided the same - we fitted it. SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ <Snip> >Well, yes that's the case in my 2000 car. And in my friend's 2002 car. But >I understood from AutoItalia that the current official situation from 03 >onwards was inspect and if necessary change at 36 and change anyway at 72. >And there's a consensus in this group that one is taking a risk going past >the 40K mark without a swap. And a sorry tale of engine failures incurred > from observing that 72k limit. All I can say is that my 2001 car has "visually inspect at 36000 miles" and "replace at 72000 miles" in the service book that came with the car. This is the official line that Alfa UK are taking - end of story (unfortunately!). A good Alfa Dealer, like mine, will advise of the official line and then advise that 'unofficially' the Dealer recommends getting them changed earlier! Punters are then left with a difficult choice if they know little about engines and the risks of cambelt (etc) scenarios! Alfa UK has got itself in a silly situation with this. Court cases and very unhappy customers when the thing breaks early or almost as unhappy customers when the running costs jump significantly (because the 'expensive' services come round more often. Both ways, it helps the 156 depreciate even faster though. :-( This is the kind of nonsense that puts people off buying another Alfas. The 156 has the looks to seduce people into a sale (and it certainly did) but the 159 doesn't appear to have this and may prove a difficult seller. AutoItalia are clearly wrong (if your understanding of them is correct). <Snip> SignatureZ Scotland Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather 'Oil' be seeing you.. (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!) > All I can say is that my 2001 car has "visually inspect at 36000 > miles" Or 3 years, whichever comes first. >and "replace at 72000 miles".... Or 5 years, whichever comes first. >... in the service book that came with > the car. This is the official line that Alfa UK are taking - end of > story (unfortunately!). Yep, just the same in my 2002 147 hand book. I've just had a 3 year service and the belt and tensioner were changed under warranty because they were suspect. Presumably Alfa UK were happy to stump-up under warranty as the dealer was quite happy to do the work without charging me (Northgate in Canterbury) Regards Ross |
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