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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / September 2005

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Dellortos vs. Webers vs. Spica

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John C. Woods - 29 Sep 2005 05:31 GMT
Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel injected
models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of converting fuel
injected to normally aspirated modes & back again.

I thought it would be edifying to begin a thread to discuss the pros & cons
of the above referenced methods of feeding vapor to the cylinders ... it
certainly would be helpful to me! Please advise regarding:

- performance characteristics
- ease of owner maintenance & tuning, including cost issues
- fuel efficiency
- air delivery & filtration
- coolness, such as sound while sucking gas, looks, etc.

Please advise.
Thanks.
/s/
John
'69 1750 Spider
'71 1750 GTV
'76 1750 Alfetta sedan
(all Spica)
Catman - 29 Sep 2005 06:36 GMT
> Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel injected
> models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of converting fuel
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> - air delivery & filtration
> - coolness, such as sound while sucking gas, looks, etc.

Dellortos, IMO sound and look best.  Whether they actually perform any
better is not something that I can really comment on, I'm afraid.

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George Graves - 29 Sep 2005 20:24 GMT
> > Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel injected
> > models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of converting fuel
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Dellortos, IMO sound and look best.  Whether they actually perform any
> better is not something that I can really comment on, I'm afraid.

I know that Dellortos were pretty lackluster when they first appeared on
the Alfa 2.5 liter V-6 (six single-throat down-draughts). Apparently,
the combo was a disaster. It took The Bosch L-Jetronic to make that
engine sing.
Catman - 29 Sep 2005 22:43 GMT
>> > Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel
>> > injected models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> the combo was a disaster. It took The Bosch L-Jetronic to make that
> engine sing.

Interesting.  I know they used to go out of synch easily on the 4s
Signature

Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

alfistagj - 29 Sep 2005 19:17 GMT
Well, as Montreal owner I know the discussion quite well.
The "double" Spica (2 4-cylinder Spica's to feed the 8 cylinder engine) is
VERY good, however has a bad name because of (IMHO) lousy maintenance of the
car owners.
Unlike Dell Orto's / Webers / Solex, the Spica system NEVER gets
un-synchronized etc.
It's always perfect fuel/air mix.
The internals of the pump are absolutely good for more than the engine/car
life PROVIDED regular maintenance is done.
More specifically, the oil filter should be renewed every year/10000km
Being a mechanical pump, the Spica receives it's lubrication from the same
lubrication system as the engine. It's own oil filter has the tendency to
block quite easily resulting in no lubrication.
And without lubrication.......
Another "problem" that could occur with the Spica is that fuel leaks along
the pump elements into the sump of the pump resulting in a fuel poluted
lubrication oil.
This however is pure theoretical, as the internals hardly wear and if you
change the oil regularly, you'll always have good lubrication.

Monti owners tend to like to keep their cars original, that is another
reason NOT to go for this conversion.
Within the Monti community (www.alfamontreal.info) there are 2 or 3 owners
that have the conversion done, but all praise the performnce of the Spica
compared to the carbs.
An Austarlian guy has converted his Monti to a full electronic
ignistion/injection which ofcourse works perfectly as well.

Advantage of the 4 cylinders compared to the V8 Monti engine is that the
4/cyl´s can make use of readily available double horizontal carbs from the
scarp yard.
The Monti has the difficulty that the inlet is in the inner V, so too little
space for double horizontal carbs.

If your Spica is o.k., just keep giving it good maintenancne and enjoy!

> Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel injected
> models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of converting fuel
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> '76 1750 Alfetta sedan
> (all Spica)
George Graves - 29 Sep 2005 20:24 GMT
> Well, as Montreal owner I know the discussion quite well.
> The "double" Spica (2 4-cylinder Spica's to feed the 8 cylinder engine) is
> VERY good, however has a bad name because of (IMHO) lousy maintenance of the
> car owners.

This is true of SPICA systems in general. The system itself is very
good, probably one of the best mechanical FI systems ever devised (Alfa
sure used more of them than any other Mechanical automotive FI system in
history). Unfortunately, mechanical FI systems are incredibly complex
and when something does go wrong, its a mess. Also, SPICA systems should
NEVER be touched by the unwary car owner. All of the adjustments
interact, and if you move one, you've screwed the pooch so to speak.
SPICA is best left to the specialist. We have a real expert here in the
US, his Name is Wes Ingram and his shop is in Seattle Washington. Send
him your SPICA system and the one you get back will not only run
perfectly, but it will likely liberate a not inconsequential gain in
horsepower as well. For maintenance, a can of Marvel Mystery Oil with
every oil change seems to be trick to keeping SPICA system in tip-top
shape. If you must screw around with the settings, at least purchase
Ingram's book (available at his web site).

http://www.wesingram.com/

> Unlike Dell Orto's / Webers / Solex, the Spica system NEVER gets
> un-synchronized etc.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> If your Spica is o.k., just keep giving it good maintenancne and enjoy!

Agreed. Someone here in the USA is making a bolt-on throttle body with
intake manifold to directly replace the SPICA system in 4-cylinder 1750
and 2000 Alfas. It uses an aftermarket ECU and, apparently, works very
well.

> > Owners in the States fret about 'gassing' the 'older' Spica fuel injected
> > models, e.g. 105's & 115's, and many have made a career of converting fuel
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> > '76 1750 Alfetta sedan
> > (all Spica)
alfistagj - 29 Sep 2005 21:56 GMT
> We have a real expert here in the
> US, his Name is Wes Ingram and his shop is in Seattle Washington. Send
> him your SPICA system and the one you get back will not only run
> perfectly, but it will likely liberate a not inconsequential gain in
> horsepower as well.

Can´t agree with you more.
Had a almost total loss Spica on my Monti (due to `forgotton` Spica filter
:-(  ), but Wes salvaged it perfectly!!
 
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