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Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / February 2007any thoughts? - 147 clutch acting weird
Howdy, A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. And what a joy it is, this baby is beautiful and it grips. I adore it. I mean those curves, I've washed it every week now -almost a sensual experience- which is especially telling since I washed the Golf only three times in the two years I had it. Only pet peeve 'so far' was the fuel filler cap, although having owned a 75 I should have been used to it I guess. 'So far', because since this week I start noticing the clutch is playing up. I dived into this groups' history and found some reference to a clutch problem on the early series, but not exactly what it was. What happens with mine is really weird -to me at least. It works fine, I drive for about an hour and it starts getting harder (do not take that in a freudian way please) and I feel kind of a "choking" resistance, like im crusching something's bones with my foot. It works fine (it clutches like a clutch should) but it feels like someone turned the servo off (if that makes sense). When I leave the car standing for several hours when at work, start my journey home in the evening and everything works fine again, until I've driven for about an hour...same thing. Weird huh? I'll be sure to pass this over to the dealer but haven't got the time in the next week or so, and wanted to hear if you guys can make any sense of it before I do. Many thanks in advance for your thoughts. Greetz. req. > A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. The best choiche you could ever make! :D > [CUT] > What happens with mine is really weird -to me at least. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > journey home in the evening and everything works fine again, until I've > driven for about an hour...same thing. Had the same problem on my old '98 156 JTD. It was an issue with the clutch's hydraulic pump (the first one, on the clutch pedal, before the second one on the clutch... don't know if also the 147 has those two pumps.. sorry). If I remember right, it was due to faulty o-rings, that when the hydaulic fluid (and so the pump) gets hotter, makes the pump 'strive'. The "crushing bones" effect, otherwise, makes me thinking of another issue... maybe you have some dirt in the hydraulic fluid, but in that case the "crushing bones" effect should be present also when the car is cold. I think that you have to replace the hydraulic pump (or at least review its o-rings). If you want to make a further test prior to replace the pump, I can suggest you to entirely change the hydraulic fluid (should be the same of braking fluid), clean out the entire hydraulic system and look if the problem disappears. Otherwise you have to replace the pump and make another hydraulic fluid change... so that suggestion could make you throw away some time and hydraulic fluid, but, if it will be resolutive... you'll save the money of a new pump! ;) > Greetz. req. HTH. Lamps! (And sorry for my poor English!) >> A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. > > The best choiche you could ever make! :D So I realise now, I should have never left Alfa. >> [CUT] > Had the same problem on my old '98 156 JTD. It was an issue with the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I think that you have to replace the hydraulic pump (or at least review > its o-rings). Hotdiggedy, that sounds exactly right. Thanks for that info Fabrizio. Cheers.req >>> A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. >> The best choiche you could ever make! :D [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Hotdiggedy, that sounds exactly right. > Thanks for that info Fabrizio. I think it sounds like breaking release bearing, but I can't think of any reason why it would get better.  SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk >>>> A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. >>> The best choiche you could ever make! :D [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I think it sounds like breaking release bearing, but I can't think of any > reason why it would get better. I'll take it to the dealer next week or so, and will just give the info on what happens. From past experience, when I hint at a defect pump, the pump will immediately be replaced without them looking for further problems. I just hope they don't make it worse than it is. With the info you guys are feeding me I hope to have some kind of positive influence once they tell me what they will be up to ;-) >>>>> A couple of weeks ago I dumped my Golf V for a 147jtd. >>>> The best choiche you could ever make! :D [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > me I hope to have some kind of positive influence once they tell me what > they will be up to ;-) Just tell the clutch is FUBAR and to sort it out :) SignatureCatman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3 Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply) Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2 Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk > It works fine, I drive for about an hour and it starts getting harder (do > not take that in a freudian way please) and I feel kind of a "choking" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > driven for about an hour...same thing. > Weird huh? Sounds like a temperature induced problem. Combination of hot engine bay and frequently (de)clutching heats up the hydraulic fluid. IF the hydraulic fluid is "old" it contains more water and as water is better compressable than the special hydraulic fluid the (de)clutching will feel "spoungy" Same goes for the braking fluid !!! Any dealer can simply check the fluid on % water. And...... the maintenance schedule does call for renewal of the hydraulic coupling AND brake fluid every 2-3 years or so. One of the mostly "violated" maintenance rules !!!!! SignatureCiao from The Netherlands alfistagj (aka Gert-Jan) GT 2.0 JTS (2005) Montreal 2.6V8 (1428700 - 1973/4) >> It works fine, I drive for about an hour and it starts getting harder (do >> not take that in a freudian way please) and I feel kind of a "choking" [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > coupling AND brake fluid every 2-3 years or so. > One of the mostly "violated" maintenance rules !!!!! Not likely, my baby is 8 weeks old, so the fluids should be ok. Montreal huh? I almost bought one a couple of years ago, but it had quite a lot of filler in it so I decided against it. Still love that V8 sound and those Gandini lines though. How are the running costs (fuel consumption notwhitstanding)? Did you do any mods on the chassis? Just being curious.. ;-) > Montreal huh? I almost bought one a couple of years ago, but it had quite > a lot of filler in it so I decided against it. > Still love that V8 sound and those Gandini lines though. > How are the running costs (fuel consumption notwhitstanding)? Did you do > any mods on the chassis? > Just being curious.. ;-) Sorry, about the costs, but I don't give a s*** about that. It's a classic car, only drive approx. 2500-3000 km a year with it. Nevertheless every year (!) new filters/oil etc. So quite expensive when you calculate by the km's Fuel consumtion is 7-8km to the liter and even better when I just cruise the contry roads Stop an go is exepnsive..... No mods, "only" compeletely restored to "as new". Mods to do is change all fuel lines in the engine bay to the "woven" stainless steel ones; fuel pressure is VERY high as the mechanical plunger fuel pump requires a lot of fuel. And as the fuel lines/filters in the engine bay are just 15cm from the right hand exhaust manifold, you can imagine what happens when it starts leaking fuel there........ Also want to change the single plunger front brakes to double plunger ones; the 80's BMW 7-series ones fit. Every time I get in the car and push the brake pedal I think the brakes are gone; actually in daily operation the only thing on the car that reminds you of the fact it's a 70's design. The rest: With electric windows, airco and performance (220BHP / 0-100km/h < 8sec / top speed 225-230km/h) still no shame for the 21st century And, for sale ;-( (due to work absolutely no time to have fun with "her" anymore; it just stand under a beautifull original Alfa cover being lonely in the garage. Better for "her" to get an active "lover") SignatureCiao from The Netherlands alfistagj (aka Gert-Jan) GT 2.0 JTS (2005) Montreal 2.6V8 (1428700 - 1973/4) >> Montreal huh? I almost bought one a couple of years ago, but it had quite >> a lot of filler in it so I decided against it. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > stand under a beautifull original Alfa cover being lonely in the garage. > Better for "her" to get an active "lover") She sounds lovely. Running costs seem not to be too high. I've heard horrific stories on the engine, in particular the Spica injection, but that might stem from the fuel line issue you mentioned. I have my first car (Alfetta 2000 lusso GTV) in pristene condition hibernating all year round also. Not to mention a "project" GTV6. I thought about selling them but since I still regret selling my 75 decided against it. I just hope I'll get more time "some day" to enjoy them. And maybe even have my kids see what a real car looks like. I know it's insane but if I'd come across a project Montreal I'd probably take it on board also ;-) In fact the Spica systems is only the spot where bad maintenance shows up. The lubrication is done through the engines main lube oil system with it's own oil filter. This small oil filter is often forgotten and poor lubrication leads to damage (and expensive damages I may say) The choke is operated by a TA (thermostatic actuator) in the cooling system; the TA is easily damaged. A deffective TA results in a permanaent "choke on" so to much fuel. The access fuel eventually finds it's way into the sump/lube oil system and the oil/fuel mixture is a poor lubricant; also a reason for the Spica pump to fail. And without the Spica being defective, another problem occurs. Fuel pressure is very high and the fuel lines run very near the engine / exhaust (also the access fuel return lines) The access fuel amount running back to the tank is huge; this way the hot return fuel is cooled by the large amount of fuel in the tank. At low fuel levels in the tank, you have too little liters to cool the fuel down and vapor accurs in the fule laine and the engine will run badly or not at all. Sollution: A fuel cooler or keep the tank topped up SignatureCiao from The Netherlands alfistagj (aka Gert-Jan) GT 2.0 JTS (2005) Montreal 2.6V8 (1428700 - 1973/4). > I've heard horrific stories on the engine, in particular the Spica > injection, but that might stem from the fuel line issue you mentioned. That is some pretty usefull info to keep in mind - just in case a Monty makes it to my shed. Sorry to push it, but any fuel coolers you can recommend? req > In fact the Spica systems is only the spot where bad maintenance shows up. > The lubrication is done through the engines main lube oil system with it's [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> I've heard horrific stories on the engine, in particular the Spica >> injection, but that might stem from the fuel line issue you mentioned. No, sorry about that. I solved it the easy way, top up the fuel often (and keep 10 ltrs spare in the trump shpuld the vapor problem occur far from a fuel station) A general tip: The Alfa Montreal website is generally considered as the best classic car website in the world; it's Bruce Taylors' life time work. Check www.alfamontreal.info SignatureCiao from The Netherlands alfistagj (aka Gert-Jan) GT 2.0 JTS (2005) Montreal 2.6V8 (1428700 - 1973/4) > That is some pretty usefull info to keep in mind - just in case a Monty > makes it to my shed. > Sorry to push it, but any fuel coolers you can recommend? > > req > No, sorry about that. > I solved it the easy way, top up the fuel often (and keep 10 ltrs spare in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > website in the world; it's Bruce Taylors' life time work. > Check www.alfamontreal.info whew, nifty, thx. have a nice weekend Req |
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