Car Forum / Alfa Romeo Cars / December 2003
Cam belts and timing belts
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Arnaud - 08 Dec 2003 19:21 GMT Hi,
I am now the proud owner of an Alfa Romeo GTV 2.6 Tspark. It's a 1999 model with 49000 miles on the clock. The car drives very well and make a beautiful sound. I would like to keep it that way as long as possible.
I've just heared a few days ago that cam and timing belts should be changed at 48000 miles, is this true? I've read on gtvv6.com, 60K miles or 5 years...
Who knows the constructor official version?
Thanks and best regards, Arnaud
Paul Woodsford - 08 Dec 2003 23:36 GMT I'm sorry I do not know about your particular Alfa, but the 147, in the UK handbook, says check at 36,000 and change at 72,000 miles. However the European schedule is change at 36,000 miles.!!!!!!!.
If you have no luck in this newsgroup then try in the Forums here:- http://www.alfaowner.com/alfaowner/
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: Hi, : [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : Thanks and best regards, : Arnaud Tom Boltwood - 09 Dec 2003 10:46 GMT > From: "Arnaud" <arnaud@foulon.freeserve.co.uk> > Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks and best regards, > Arnaud People have been going on about this for a while AFAIK Alfa keep changing their minds between 36k and 72k. The safest thing to do is just to change it at 36k then you don't need to worry about it.
Richard - 09 Dec 2003 12:44 GMT Official version was 72000 miles, but they later revised to 60,000 miles. However, it could break at any time before that, with associated very expensive and possibly irrecoverable damage, so it would be foolish not to get it done earlier. Really, you could regret not doing so.
The people at gtvv6.com do know their stuff about V6 & TS Alfa engines.
"> > From: "Arnaud" <arnaud@foulon.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo > > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:21:09 -0000 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thanks and best regards, > > Arnaud DesmaisonLCM - 09 Dec 2003 14:09 GMT Dans l'article <br4g2p$8r2$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, "Richard" <someone@somewhere.com>a écrit :
>Official version was 72000 miles, but they later revised to 60,000 miles. >However, it could break at any time before that, with associated very [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> > Thanks and best regards, >> > Arnaud and don't forget that belts (all) must be change when 5 years old max, even if you don't have reach the distance to do it. rubber loose is caracteristics in time and it become hard and could break at any time when it is too old.
Esko Kauppinen - 09 Dec 2003 19:42 GMT > and don't forget that belts (all) must be change when 5 years old max, even if > you don't have reach the distance to do it. > rubber loose is caracteristics in time and it become hard and could break at > any time when it is too old. So you must also change all the tires and rubber seals of the engine and chassis every 5 years?
And how to make sure how old the replacement belt is? Maybe it has been lying on the shelve for 4 years.
Just got an offer from my garage to change the belts etc. for 655 euros (normal price 819 euros). I have driven 25000 miles (40000 km) but the car is over the recommnded max. replacement age of 3 !! years. I have a 156 2.0 TS.
Seems like every country has its own limits. It's easy to cash on customers fears.
- Esko
Gert-Jan - 09 Dec 2003 19:25 GMT Why do you think Alfa has changed the maintenance interval from 5 to 3 years (100000 to 60000km) Not to cash on customers fears. A complete engine overhaul, when the belt fails, brings a lot more cash! They just know for sure, like every other car manufacturer, that the failure rate of timing belts increases dramatically above 3 years/60000km; the belt manufatcturers simply can't get their products better!! That's one of the reasons engineers worldwide expect that within the next engine generation over 95% of the car manufacturers will return to the "old" chain!!
 Signature Ciao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) 156 SW 1.8 (2000) Montreal (1973/4) On reply change hello to chello please
> > and don't forget that belts (all) must be change when 5 years old max, even if > > you don't have reach the distance to do it. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Esko Carl Farrington - 09 Dec 2003 20:59 GMT > A complete engine overhaul, when the belt fails, brings a lot more > cash! They just know for sure, like every other car manufacturer, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > next engine generation over 95% of the car manufacturers will return > to the "old" chain!! I can't wait!
Ross - 10 Dec 2003 11:42 GMT > That's one of the reasons engineers worldwide expect that within the next > engine generation over 95% of the car manufacturers will return to the "old" > chain!! Really? I'd like to see chains back, but I would have thought that the original reasons for doing away with chains in favour of rubber belts still apply, i.e. expensive chains, noisier in operation, and weight.
Have the engineers come up with something new? People that I know who aren't that interested in cars/engines, generally don't seem to moan about breaking belts/cost of regular replacement, so would manufacturers see a need to change?
Regards Ross
DesmaisonLCM - 10 Dec 2003 15:39 GMT Dans l'article <br7986$hvr$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Ross" <ross@redtreeorchard.freeserve.co.uk>a écrit :
>Really? I'd like to see chains back, but I would have thought that the >original reasons for doing away with chains in favour of rubber belts still >apply, i.e. expensive chains, noisier in operation, and weight. i agree, these are the mains reasons
>Have the engineers come up with something new? People that I know who aren't >that interested in cars/engines, generally don't seem to moan about breaking >belts/cost of regular replacement, so would manufacturers see a need to >change? don't know but when the belt is breaking, you can hear them. In my company, this year, 2 problems, the first on a punto 1.2L, belt out at 74000km and 6 years, the other on a Clio 1.2l, 78000 km and 8 years. On the Punto, no damage because in the FIRE engine, valves can't touch piston so it's not a big problem (great engine this FIRE !) but the cylindehead of the clio is out and much money to repare. On my Fiat Maréa 1.9TD, it was for 5 years or 120000km max, but it was made at 5 years and 105000km only, we never know. It will be interesting to know the advice for race cars, does anybody know them ?
B - 09 Dec 2003 20:38 GMT > > and don't forget that belts (all) must be change when 5 years old max, even if > > you don't have reach the distance to do it. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Esko Just happened that I called two places myself today to get a price for the 120 000 km service including replacement of all the belts. On the Italian side of the border they gave a price of 720 euros and on the French side ~600 euros. When the car was in for the 100 000 km service (car 3,5 years) the dealer said that it would be about time to have the belt replaced as it should be max. 4 years. However another dealer just the other day said that it should be changed every third year?? What amazed me as much as the the price was that here in France they said they would need to have the car for two full days. I wonder if they need to take out the engine (1.9 JTD) to replace the belt??? Well yes it's not only the belt but anyway.
-br Bernt
Ppelectron - 10 Dec 2003 07:37 GMT >What amazed me as much as the the price was that here in France they said >they would need to have the car for two full days. I wonder if they need to >take out the engine (1.9 JTD) to replace the belt??? I can't comment on the 1.9 JTD, but the dealer told me that they have to remove the engine to do a 2.5 V6 156.
DesmaisonLCM - 10 Dec 2003 10:37 GMT Dans l'article <br51ih$6md$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>, Esko Kauppinen <e.kauppinen@kolumbus.fi>a écrit :
>So you must also change all the tires and rubber seals of the engine and >chassis every 5 years? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >- Esko you usualy don't keep tires for 5 years because they are worn before, 40000 or 50000km is the max you can do and most people do that in 3 or 4 years. However, if you can see old tires, 5 or more years old, you will notice that there is a lot of little crack on the side and the rubber is hard, you can scratch it with your nails. And yes, if it is too old, it can explose , my own experience in an old MINI !!! thereis a lot of additive in tires so it's not really the same as belt, . rubber loose his efficience in time due to UV ray, hight and cold temp, etc, not on a shelve. yes, rubber seals of the engine and chassis coulb be changed too, just take a look under the bonnet, rubber seals between engine and chassis, and compare to others on an old car, the difference is obvious.The same for ball joint, lower and upper arm , all the bushes . Just changed mine on the 75 at the rear (De Dion axle), they where in a poor statement, disintegrated. this dont mind that you MUST change them each 5 years, but they are less efficient, you get more vibrations from the engine, creaking noise from front arm , etc... i don't know if it's 3, 4 or 5 years the best time to change these parts but when it's for the engine, cambelt, i prefer earlier than later.
Esko Kauppinen - 10 Dec 2003 21:58 GMT > you usualy don't keep tires for 5 years because they are worn before, 40000 or > 50000km is the max you can do and most people do that in 3 or 4 years. However, > if you can see old tires, 5 or more years old, you will notice that there is a > lot of little crack on the side and the rubber is hard, you can scratch it with > your nails. And yes, if it is too old, it can explose , my own experience in an > old MINI !!! Here in Finland we usually use two sets of tires, winter and summer, so they can easily be 5 years old if you don't drive a lot. And when the tires are finaly worn, they are ofter re-treaded and used again. I work in aviation industry and even the jetliners tyres are re-treaded. I think that the cracking of the surface is a problem long time gone.
But I have also had a Mini and remember that finding tires for it was a problem at the time but that was years ago.
> thereis a lot of additive in tires so it's not really the same as belt, . > rubber loose his efficience in time due to UV ray, hight and cold temp, etc, > not on a shelve. But they do if you don't store them right. We have to keep the rubber spares in a dark air conditioned room and still have to throw them away when the storage time expires.
There seems to be people who have experinced a broken belt at very low mileage on a new car and then again some who have never changed it and driven for years and thousands of kilometers.
I have lost one engine because of a broken cam drive gear and it was a Ford Capri 3.0 V6. And that car has a gear driven camshaft. The fiber gear lost some teeth on high power accelerating and the engine suffered heavy damage. It seems to depend on your luck when the time comes :-/
Gert-Jan - 09 Dec 2003 18:11 GMT TwinSpark??????????? The 4 cil TwinSpark 16V engines have an interval of 3 years/60000km(36000miles) since August 2000 although most instruction books still show 5 years/100000km(60000miles) As far as I know the V6 (both 12V and 24V there is no TwinSpark version!!) still uses the 5years/100000km interval.
 Signature Ciao from Holland AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan) 156 SW 1.8 (2000) Montreal (1973/4) On reply change hello to chello please
> Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks and best regards, > Arnaud
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