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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Fiero / December 2005

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Going to look at car

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David Bosworth - 07 Dec 2005 20:48 GMT
I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
clutch and the car has been lowered.

Any special points of interest to pay close attention too, any advice
greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the space.

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html
Phil Randolph - 07 Dec 2005 21:39 GMT
Check for rust - one primary place is behind the trunk carpet on the
sides of the trunk

> I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> David Bosworth
> http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html
Mr Potatohead - 07 Dec 2005 22:02 GMT
> I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> David Bosworth
> http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

Skykomish? Is that the place with the big falls? I was there once and
impressed with the old steam trains just sitting there rusting. I gather
they were lumber trains because some were hill-climbers (built at an
angle). Anyway, the tracks are along the road to the falls we were going
to see and they had a name something like that.

Pretty place, but like Philo says, check your trunk area for rust.
That's one damp place. :-)
David Bosworth - 07 Dec 2005 22:07 GMT
What is the recommended interval for the timing belt. or is it a chain?

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> > I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> > the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Pretty place, but like Philo says, check your trunk area for rust.
> That's one damp place. :-)
Phil Randolph - 08 Dec 2005 00:25 GMT
> What is the recommended interval for the timing belt. or is it a chain?
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>>Pretty place, but like Philo says, check your trunk area for rust.
>>That's one damp place. :-)

It's a chain  should last just short of forever
David Bosworth - 08 Dec 2005 07:05 GMT
Thanks Phil

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> > What is the recommended interval for the timing belt. or is it a chain?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> >
> It's a chain  should last just short of forever
David Bosworth - 07 Dec 2005 22:08 GMT
Oh, that would be Snoqualmie falls, that is around 30 miles south of me.

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> > I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> > the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Pretty place, but like Philo says, check your trunk area for rust.
> That's one damp place. :-)
JazzMan - 08 Dec 2005 01:34 GMT
> I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks for the space.

Get the VIN and run a carfax. Look under the car at the
rocker panels, that's the area under the doors from
wheel to wheel, there's a metal tube about an inch and
a quarter in diameter along each side of the car, Follow
the tubes back and make sure they are not crushed or smashed,
especially back around the rear of the car. This is a common
result of improper jacking by inattentive mechanics.

As mentioned before, check for rust. Fieros have a normal metal
structure under the plastic skin and can rust out.

Get under the driver's side dash and pull the carpet back
from the firewall just behind the clutch pedal, check for
brake fluid, that indicates that the master cylinder needs
replacement.

Check the oil. Do not check coolant by opening the radiator
cap in the front, instead, look in the overflow reservoir.
If that's dry, then remove the thermostat housing cap in
the rear to see if it's got coolant.

Regarding heater cores, for some odd reason that always
comes up this time of the year, don't worry, it's
incredibly easy to change one out. I did mine on my
hour lunchbreak and still had to heat and eat lunch.  :)

Once you get the car, and even if you don't you should
tell the owner this, under the front hood in the middle
of the plastic air box there is a three or four wire
connector that plugs onto a part that's held into the
air box with a couple 7mm screws, that's the resistor
pack for the heater blower fan. Leaves and debris fall
down into the air box and this resistor pack will ignite
those leaves and burn down a car. Removing the two screws
and pulling the resistor pack out allows easy access to
clean out twenty years accumulation of leaves.

In the engine compartment clean out all leaves, especially
any that have accumulated on the forward exhaust manifold
just under the rear window, this has been a source of fires
as well.

Common problems with the motor are relatively few. The
distributor has an O-ring where it enters the block, this
gets old and cracks with age and produces a heck of an oil
leak. They're not hard to replace, use only the tan fluorelastomer
ring from GM or http://www.rodneydickman.com for best life.
The timing chain will last the life of the engine with just
routine oil changes. The rod bearings are perhaps the only
real weak point of the 2.8 V6 engines. If the engine is
well maintain and not abused they will last well over
100k miles, but skip changes and beat on the engine and the
#3 and/or #4 rod bearing will stack and spin, and that means
new engine time. The forward spark plugs are hard to get to
for someone without good spacial visualization skills, so
I've seen 120k mile engines with the original forward
plugs still in place. Yikes!

A good forum for Fieros is http://www.fiero.nl and click
through to the Forums section. You can read without
registering but will need to register to post replys
and new topics. Cliff, the moderator, is a stand-up guy
and does not allow access to his registration database
by anyone under any circumstances.

If you have a basic set of hand tools and some minimal
mechanical aptitude then most problems in a 20 year old
Fiero are easy to repair.

JazzMan

Signature

**********************************************************
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
**********************************************************
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of
supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to
live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
**********************************************************

David Bosworth - 08 Dec 2005 07:35 GMT
--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> > I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> > the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> especially back around the rear of the car. This is a common
> result of improper jacking by inattentive mechanics.

Going to sign up for that service in the morn. I got the vin#
Ok so what exactly are these tube for? and what if they are crushed?
It was very hard to see much under the car but what I did see looked very
good.
Time was short because of light issues, to late in the day. I wish I had
received this post before I left!
The car is rougher than I really want to deal with but I am still
considering it.
The paint is totally shot and the interior is in pretty sad shape,
upholstery is shot, headliner hanging some loose
interior pieces etc. but the body is straight and everything works, Panels
line up, doors and hatches worked smooth and tight, runs well, shifts tight
and she handled GREAT!.
The guy is going to give me the original owners phone# so I can talk to him
about the suspension modifications he did or had done.

Any idea what an 85 GT should sell for if it was in reasonable condition?
ballpark?

> As mentioned before, check for rust. Fieros have a normal metal
> structure under the plastic skin and can rust out.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> and pulling the resistor pack out allows easy access to
> clean out twenty years accumulation of leaves.
That is very interesting, thank you!

> In the engine compartment clean out all leaves, especially
> any that have accumulated on the forward exhaust manifold
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> JazzMan

Thanks so much, lot's of great info in this reply! I will save this one for
sure.

> --
> **********************************************************
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
> **********************************************************
David Bosworth - 08 Dec 2005 07:55 GMT
I forgot to add that the brakes were weak. Firm pedal but had to press hard
and did not stop well. I was thinking old or contaminated fluid and or
glazing on the rotors and or pads? I gave the car a once over, drove it and
then it was pretty much dark. It was an impulse to look at it this afternoon
but at least I kept my money in the old pocket! sign of age I guess.

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> --
> From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
> > live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
> > **********************************************************
John Craker - 08 Dec 2005 16:01 GMT
>>I forgot to add that the brakes were weak.
>> The car is rougher than I really want to deal with
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> headliner hanging
>> some loose interior pieces

>> Any idea what an 85 GT should sell for if it was in reasonable condition?
>> ballpark?

Maybe when it's laid out this way...  ummm.....   :)
Maybe time to go look at that '87!  They have better headlight motors
anyhow.
(and get almost double the mileage on the hwy)

One with low mileage (which can mean nothing!) and was in GOOD condition
overall would have an insurance value up here of about $5000cdn.  What you
could sell it for?  Probably more like 3-4K on a GOOD day.  I sold an 85GT a
year ago for $3K, and it took me a while to get it.  That's with a rebuilt
bottom end on a fairly fresh top end with a good cam, ran like a raped ape,
etc etc. and had decent interior (since I'd fixed all the broken bits!), etc
etc.
David Bosworth - 08 Dec 2005 17:08 GMT
Hmmm, thanks. They are asking 2200 and said they would wiggle a couple of
hundred but I was thinking more like 1500 at the most. Even at that it may
chew up way more cash than I could ever hope to resell it for. I don't want
to be insulting so I may not offer anything.

>I sold an 85GT a  year ago for $3K, and it took me a while to get it.<

Should have given me a call! hehe

--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> >>I forgot to add that the brakes were weak.
> >> The car is rougher than I really want to deal with
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> etc etc. and had decent interior (since I'd fixed all the broken bits!), etc
> etc.
JazzMan - 09 Dec 2005 04:45 GMT
> I forgot to add that the brakes were weak. Firm pedal but had to press hard
> and did not stop well. I was thinking old or contaminated fluid and or
> glazing on the rotors and or pads? I gave the car a once over, drove it and
> then it was pretty much dark. It was an impulse to look at it this afternoon
> but at least I kept my money in the old pocket! sign of age I guess.

This car sounds to be in fairly rough shape for as low
miles as you've been told. With the descriptions you've
given so far I would guess this car to be work less than
one thousand assuming no significant rust.

The tubes underneath take coolant from the engine to
the radiator and back to the engine, if damaged overheating
will be a problem.

The brake problem can be the result of a faulty brake
booster or vacuum leak in the hose that goes to the
booster from the engine. How is the idle? In neutral
and warmed up the idle should be just under 1k with no
more than 50-75 rpm flucutations.

JazzMan
Signature

**********************************************************
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
**********************************************************
"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of
supply and demand. It is the privilege of human beings to
live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
**********************************************************

David Bosworth - 09 Dec 2005 15:34 GMT
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> > I forgot to add that the brakes were weak. Firm pedal but had to press hard
> > and did not stop well. I was thinking old or contaminated fluid and or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> given so far I would guess this car to be work less than
> one thousand assuming no significant rust.

The mileage checked out with the history report (for whatever that is worth)
I guess I forgot to put the price in my initial post, he is asking 2200. I
got the impression that around 18 was as low as I would get them down so I
bagged it. I would have given 12 for it though. The car is very tight. They
said the car has spent a lot of time sitting around.

This is kinda funny in a sick way but their story was his girlfriend (the
owner) bought the car from her father in-law who bought the car new and did
all the custom work on it but got so fat that he could no longer drive it!
this was so severe that he ended up having his stomach tied. There's one I
had not heard before, heh.

> The tubes underneath take coolant from the engine to
> the radiator and back to the engine, if damaged overheating
> will be a problem.

Ah ha,

> The brake problem can be the result of a faulty brake
> booster or vacuum leak in the hose that goes to the
> booster from the engine. How is the idle? In neutral
> and warmed up the idle should be just under 1k with no
> more than 50-75 rpm flucutations.

Actually the car ran very well! very smooth, plenty o power and steady rpms.
the shift light on the dash was extremely annoying though. I really liked
the way the car drove. There was a rhythmic shhhing noise while under way
though, not loud but would have needed looking into if I was to pursue it.
The noise did not change through the gears or vary engine rpms. He was very
into that new clutch! must have been a real pain in the a.s to do, claimed
500 in parts. The rims were tall and the tires very low profile and in good
shape ka-ching $$$! Are sway bars standard equipment on GT's? or all
Fiero's?

I may check back with them after they have had the car on the market longer
and offer a 1 to 12 for it. No reason I can't own more than one of these
cars!

David

> JazzMan
> --
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> live under the laws of justice and mercy." - Wendell Berry
> **********************************************************
Mr Potatohead - 09 Dec 2005 16:54 GMT
> I may check back with them after they have had the car on the market longer
> and offer a 1 to 12 for it. No reason I can't own more than one of these
> cars!

Most of us do. :-)
John Craker - 08 Dec 2005 04:24 GMT
Look up front, right in front of the headlights.  There should be no signs
of warpage in the sheetmetal work.  Now look between the rad, and the
headlights.  You'll see two sheets of metal that go up, and are pinch
welded.  Make sure there's no seperation of the two.

Either of these are signs that the front end has taken a hit.

Not to say it's a "do not buy" sign, but it's a good indicator of the
honesty level of the seller!  Needless to say, don't tell him what you're
looking for first....   :)

>I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Thanks for the space.
David Bosworth - 08 Dec 2005 07:50 GMT
--
From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
David Bosworth
http://www.premier1.net/~daveb/hovercrafts.html

> Look up front, right in front of the headlights.  There should be no signs
> of warpage in the sheetmetal work.  Now look between the rad, and the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> honesty level of the seller!  Needless to say, don't tell him what you're
> looking for first....   :)

The guy told me on the phone that the original owner had hit a guard rail
and broken the front bumper cover.
It was repaired by a shop and they did a good job, that part had not been
color matched so you could definitely see the area. I looked at the radiator
and headlight area and things looked ok, to the novice anyways.
As usual it really needs a second look. There has been good information
passed my way by you kind folks and I have thought of a couple of other
things on my own too :-) Imagine that! heh.
I am going to check on some parts prices and the cost of painting and think
it over. I kinda doubt they are going to move enough for me on the price
though.
I am going to try and look at an 87 4 banger tomorrow, it's pretty cheap and
will make a good exercise if nothing else. Also not knowing much about these
cars it will give me an idea if I like the suspension modifications on the
one I drove today too.

Thanks again.

> >I found a potential Fiero and am going out to see it this afternoon or in
> > the morning. It is an 85 GT  manual trans with around 60,000 miles new
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > Thanks for the space.
Pegasus #4 - 11 Dec 2005 06:03 GMT
Regarding the soft brakes. Ask to see if one of the owners took it to Midas
for a brake job. I made that mistake on my previous 88 GT. Later while
looking for a fourth Fiero I test drove another 88 GT. When I commented to
the owner that the brakes were really weak he confessed that it had Midas
brakes on it. I don't know what their problem is but they can't do a Fiero
right, or at least our local shop can't.

Marty Wibert

> --
> From the rocky shores of the Skykomish river
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> > >
> > > Thanks for the space.
 
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