Just got off the phone with my kid. He says the engine on my 84 Se is
hard to start. He doesn't get the whirr of the fuel pump with key on,
but after he winds it for a while it will start. I told him the fuel
pump relay is probably acting up and the engine spinning gets enough
oil pressure up to kick the fuel pump into action.
Did I get this right? Or did I miss something.
Where exactly is the fuel pump relay? And can I bypass it if
necessary?
Some posted that another relay is the same and will work. Anyone know
which relay that may be? (I've since forgotten.)
My Fiero is currently in Calgary and I'm heading there this weekend
(700 miles west of me) to pick it up and bring it home.
Any info you give me, arms me enough to look mostly good to my kid.
Diagnosing problems over the phone really sucks.
Pete :)
First to dispell a myth: There is no oil pressure safety
cutout in the fuel pump circuit, never was one in any
Fiero ever made.
Now that we have that out of the way, yes, there is an
oil pressure switch in the fuel pump circuit, but it's
contacts are parallel to the relay contacts, this means
that should the relay fail to energize then the oil
pressure switch provides a redundant path to power the
pump. A classic sign of a faulty pump relay is as you
described, no pump prime upon key turned to RUN and
prolonged cranking times. If the car has A/C there
will be two relays on the forward engine bay firewall,
driver's side, right behind where the driver's
shoulderblades would be. The A/C relay and the fuel
pump relay are identical so you can test by swapping
the relays.
Do not bypass the relay contacts except in a emergency,
this can result in burning out the fuel pump and killing
the battery if you forget to disable the bypass.
Here're schematics and info:
http://www.fierocentral.com/images/misc/fuelpumprelaycircuit.jpg
http://www.fierocentral.com/images/misc/fueltankunitschematic.jpg
http://web2.airmail.net/jsavage1/formula/aldlfuelpumpbypass.jpg
JazzMan
> Just got off the phone with my kid. He says the engine on my 84 Se is
> hard to start. He doesn't get the whirr of the fuel pump with key on,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Pete :)

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cselby@mts.net - 08 Dec 2005 05:13 GMT
First things first. Thanks for the confirmation. My memory wasn't as
bad as I thought.
>First to dispell a myth: There is no oil pressure safety
>cutout in the fuel pump circuit, never was one in any
>Fiero ever made.
Never thought there was a safety switch, but I do remember there is
an oil switch bypass.
>Now that we have that out of the way, yes, there is an
>oil pressure switch in the fuel pump circuit, but it's
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>pump relay are identical so you can test by swapping
>the relays.
This is what I needed to know - Thanks.
>Do not bypass the relay contacts except in a emergency,
>this can result in burning out the fuel pump and killing
>the battery if you forget to disable the bypass.
As you say , emergency use only and maybe for testing.
>Here're schematics and info:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>JazzMan
Rob in NH - 31 Dec 2005 05:13 GMT
The relay on the firewall controls the fuel pump when the key is ON
only, When it fails the oil-pressure switch is the next in line to fire
on the fuel pump..
Whats happening is that the relay is in fact BAD and only until the car
sees good oil-pressure does the fuel pump come ON..
As you stated when he used to turn on the ignition before you heard the
pump, Now he doesnt.. (bad relay)
Dont trust a new relay either as I had three new ones from Auto Zone
all end up junk right out of the box... Finally got a good one after
many trips and a little relay test with a battery charger...
Rob in NH aka:
http://www.PABlaster.com
"sandblasting with low-pressure"
cbjr61 - 06 Jan 2006 19:12 GMT
i have similar problem turn key nothing happens can t hear the fuel pump
could it be the relay or do i just drop the tank how do u test relay
Todd Zuercher - 07 Jan 2006 12:44 GMT
> i have similar problem turn key nothing happens can t hear the fuel pump
> could it be the relay or do i just drop the tank how do u test relay
The easiest test for the fuel pump is to jumper the connection at the
ALDL port (I can't remember wich two terminals to jump off the top of my
head). It bypasses the relay. If it dosn't work that way then the most
likly culpret is the pump. If it does run then check the relay.

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JazzMan - 07 Jan 2006 16:07 GMT
> > i have similar problem turn key nothing happens can t hear the fuel pump
> > could it be the relay or do i just drop the tank how do u test relay
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> head). It bypasses the relay. If it dosn't work that way then the most
> likly culpret is the pump. If it does run then check the relay.
In the ALDL connector behind the cigarette lighter trim
plate there is a terminal that's connected directly to the
fuel pump power wire, bypassing the relay and everything
else. It's labelled in this picture:
http://web2.airmail.net/jsavage1/formula/aldlfuelpumpbypass.jpg
What you first want to do is get a test light, that's one
of those screwdrivers with a light bulb in the handle and
one wire coming out the end with an alligator clip on it,
and connect the alligator clip to a known good chassis
ground. Then, use the tip of the test light to probe the
fuel pump terminal in the picture above while turning
the key to RUN (but not cranking). You should see the light
come on for around two seconds as soon as you turn the key,
then go off again. If it does that then the relay and ECM
are working properly.
If it does not come on you have a problem with the fuel
pump relay or it's driver circuit. If you have A/C you
can swap the fuel pump relay with the A/C relay, they're
on the same bracket on the forward engine firewall just
below the back glass, right about where your left shoulder
blade sits when you're in the car. The two relays are the
same. If you don't have A/C relays are fairly easy to come
buy in the wrecking yard, GM used this relay on millions
of cars.
If you want to test the fuel pump directly you can run a
short jumper wire from the orange wire at the cigarette
lighter plug over to the fuel pump test terminal in the
ALDL connector. After making the connection you turn the
key to RUN and you should hear the fuel pump run contin-
uously, you may have to remove the fuel filler cap to
hear it through the filler neck.
JazzMan

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