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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Fiero / April 2006

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Emissions Fail: HC & NOx

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Bob - 21 Apr 2006 13:43 GMT
Hi folks.  Took my 88 Formula out of storage, it's failing emissions
:-(  HC @ 2.82 vs. 2.00 allowed & NOx @ 3.58 vs 3.00 allowed.  Car has
had a slightly "rich" smell for some time.

So far I have:
- replaced plugs (AC Delco) & distributor cap, fresh oil.
- new AC Delco PCV valve
- timing: 9-11 degrees across all (10 deg spec)
- analog multimeter test at TPS, both sides, smooth.
- checked O2 w scantool, crosses every few seconds.
- GM top engine cleaner (spray) + throttle body cleaning
- blueprinted injectors (marren, ~1-2 yrs ago - at their advice, no
injector cleaner chemicals thereafter)
- vac pump to leak test all vac lines
- GM service manual procedure to test vapor purge canister purge valve
- GM Service manual procedure to test EGR circuit (6E3-C7-5), see
below...

EGR solenoid blocks with diagnostic terminal open, lets vac pass with
it grounded.  Lifting EGR on running engine produces the expected idle
roughness.  Ported vacuum is ok (up to 10Hg on a good rev).  However,
when I perform the last test (system connected w/ diagnostic grounded),
there is near or slightly less than 2 Hg of vac getting to the EGR.  No
vac line leaks (tested each w/ vac pump).  Since it's a manual, the P/N
switch is irrelevant.  Service manual offers no further guidance.

EGR valve requires 4Hg of direct vacuum to begin lifting the valve, and
about 5Hg to fully extend it.  Thus unlikely the ~2Hg provided by
solenoid is enough.  The manual says to "apply vacuum" but it does not
say how much :-)

Also noticed, using vac pump as ported source to EGR solenoid, EGR side
plugged off, I loose about 1 Hg pressure every 8 seconds through the
solenoid.  Solenoid has a relief outlet; is that slight VAC leak from
the solenoid to be expected?

Does this all point to an EGR circuit problem?  Solenoid?  Or should a
properly functioning EGR valve open with less than 4-5Hg vac?

BTW, should the ported vac source be at the top or bottom inlet of the
EGR solenoid?  I have tried it both ways, didn't affect test results
above.

Any other ideas?  Any good tests for the catalytic converter btw?

Thanks,
Bob
R W Hughes - 21 Apr 2006 16:06 GMT
High HC is usually the result of a misfire. If the engine makes sort of
random "thudding" noises in the exhaust while idling, it is definitely
misfiring. Plugs, wires, rotor are the usual suspects along with the
ignition coil itself. If you get the misfire corrected, the easy cure
for high NOx is to retard the timing about 4 degrees just for the test
and then put it back afterwards.

The EGR valve should never see a vacuum at idle due to the ported
source. It normally only is operational when you drive at a steady speed
above 50mph so it shouldn't come into play on most emission tests. Just
the same it should not reduce the vacuum (no steady state flow) or leak
down. The control valve connects the line from the valve to the ported
source when energized or to the open atmosphere when not energized. When
energized you should be able to apply a vacuum at the source connection
and see this same vacuum at the valve port, if it is smaller you must
have some internal leakage, possibly from dirt.
Signature

Robert W. Hughes (Bob)
BackYard Engineering
29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W
Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen"
rwhughe@oplink.net

Bob - 23 Apr 2006 14:42 GMT
Hi Bob, thanks for the tips.  No "thudding" noise at idle nor spark
arc.  Plug wires test with similar resistance, and cap is clean.  MSD
coil less than 3 yrs old (know a good coil test, just in case?).

Any other ideas re HC?

Thanks,
Bob
Phil Randolph - 23 Apr 2006 15:03 GMT
Most times high HC denotes a cat problem

> Hi Bob, thanks for the tips.  No "thudding" noise at idle nor spark
> arc.  Plug wires test with similar resistance, and cap is clean.  MSD
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks,
> Bob
R W Hughes - 24 Apr 2006 00:07 GMT
> Hi Bob, thanks for the tips.  No "thudding" noise at idle nor spark
> arc.  Plug wires test with similar resistance, and cap is clean.  MSD
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks,
> Bob

Usually best test for coil is substitution of another coil. If I
remember right, the MSD coil is made for use with the MSD capacitive
discharge ignition and is not happy in a current switching (HEI) system.

And as someone else points out, the catalytic converter is also suspect.
Drive it for about half an hour and the converter should be noticeably
hot (hotter than the muffler) if it is working.

Signature

Robert W. Hughes (Bob)
BackYard Engineering
29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W
Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen"
rwhughe@oplink.net

 
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