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Car Forum / Pontiac / Pontiac Fiero / May 2006'84 SE electrical problem
I'm pulling my hair out on this one. I went to start my P-body monday morning and after a brief flicker of the dash lights, they went dead. Acted just like I lost the 12v going to the ignition switch. I had just replaced my starter a couple days earlier (due to a broken casting) so I immediately suspected the small leads coming off the large solenoid stud. They were intact. The next suspect was the ignition switch. Removed the switch and tested it w/a meter. Tests good. Checked for 12v at the ign.switch connectors and it is there. Checked all the fuses and they are good. Found a fusible link by the battery and it is good. A couple of times today I've hooked the battery back up and when I try the ignition the dash lights will flicker for just a second and then I loose power before I can even get the key turned all the way to start. It won't do it again until the battery has been disconnected for a while. The starter turns over fine by shorting the solenoid. All elctronics not routed through the ignition switch are powered.Seems to me it can't be a fusible link somewhere or it would not occasionally get power back. Acts more like a breaker, but the only ones I know of are for the lights, locks & mirrors. This has me baffled. Seems to me it has to be something hooked into the pink wire coming off the ign.switch harness that feeds the coil, ecm & fuel system. I see there is a fusible link for the coil, but not the ecm or efi. They're fused. FWIW I replaced the throttle cable a couple of weeks ago. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Keep going on the fusible link theory... Give them all a good hard yank, it sounds like one has broken and just the tips of the wires are making contact. > I'm pulling my hair out on this one. I went to start my P-body monday > morning and after a brief flicker of the dash lights, they went dead. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thanks. Check the red smaller wire coming off the battery + where it is connected on the other end the lug it is crimped to looses it grip over time I suggest re-crimping and soldering it if you can. Hank >I'm pulling my hair out on this one. I went to start my P-body monday >morning and after a brief flicker of the dash lights, they went dead. Acted [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Thanks. OK, I'm making a little headway. The 12v at the switch drops to 0v when a load is applied (switch moved to run position), so my problem is on the supply side and not distibution after all. Unfortuantely I own a Haynes manual and the wiring diagram and my car don't match. I can only find 1 fusible link. It's sticking out of the conduit the positive battery cable and small wire coming off the positive cable enter into.Does anyone know which fusible link this is? Does anyone know where the small line coming off the + cable ends up at? It's hard to tell the way its routed, taped and wrapped in conduit. The only other wires attached to 12v are the 2 small leads at the large solenoid stud. I'm guessing these should be fusible links, but aren't, just plain wire. These leads (red) disappear into the main harness above the transmission. Does anyone know where these end up? Am I right in assuming 1 of these 3 12v lines goes to the alt., 1 to the ecm and the other supplies the ignition switch? The manual I have shows a battery junction box, but there's not one on mine (at least I can't find it!). I've got an '84 stick (bought non-running, pretty much been ignored since) and its wired the same way, so I'm fairly certain its factory, just not the same as the diagrams & pics in my excuse for a manual. If it's not obvious, I'm still very confused. This is not the first compaint I've had with this manul. Does anyone know if Chiltons is more accurate? Thanks for the replys John & Hank. I'm not giving up yet! > Check the red smaller wire coming off the battery + where it is > connected on the other end the lug it is crimped to looses it grip [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >>Thanks. I had the exact same problem on my Saturn last fall. It turned out to be the battery. The positive terminal had broken off inside the case. You couldn't tell from looking on the outside. It could only support some light loads then everything would go dead when I put the key into the start position. I've had a total of three side terminal batteries fail this way in three separate cars in the last few years. I guess they don't make them like they used to. > OK, I'm making a little headway. The 12v at the switch drops to 0v when a > load is applied (switch moved to run position), so my problem is on the [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > >> > >>Thanks. >If it's not obvious, I'm still very confused. This is not the first compaint >I've had with this manul. Does anyone know if Chiltons is more accurate? > >Thanks for the replys John & Hank. I'm not giving up yet! Chilton is marginally better than Haynes, but still gets confused with model years and lumps stuff together as 'typical'. The best book to get is the Factory manual (Helms). Available at the Fiero Store and it is as complete as it gets for the specific model year. Problems like this make it worth the cost. And while I do have an 84 SE and do my wiring OK, I can't seen to wrap my brain on your issue. Except to say you have the problem narrowed to a power source - not distribution. If you have looked everywhere that fusible links might be (and given them all a good yank), determined the battery connections are clean and tight, then; You might want to unscrew/disconnect the bulkhead connector at the firewall over top the exhaust and prod the 'large' wires for power. The spade connectors at this point are under sized for the main power lines (I think anyway) and may be burnt/overheated/corroded. I haven't worked up enuff Fieros to 'know' this is a problem area, but it does appear on other makes with bulkhead spade connections. Pete Do the 2 wires comming off the big terminal of the solonoid stay as the same wire; or do they have some heat shrink tubing stuff over an inch or so.? I recenty learned that fusible links don't have to be the big black casing like on the wire off the battery. They look just like regular wire, just a little smaller than the wire they protect. I would put my money on a link somewhere around ther starter. Hope you figure it out. Just my 2cents, "Don't waste your money on a chilton manual unless you like taking a DRAWING and try to match it up to what your working on." Eureka! I finally found it. Pete hit the nail on the head (Thanks!). It was a burnt female lug in the bulkhead connector, passenger compartment side. I've gotta agree with finding the connectors to be under rated for the larger gauge wires. I'm surprised it lasted 22 years. Radio & heater lights seem brighter now. Maybe its my imagination, but it seems to run smoother too. Go figure... That factory manuals a little pricey, but it would have saved me 3 evenings of fruitless troubleshooting. I'll have to get one. Another incident like this and it will pay for itself in time saved, let alone aggravation avoided chasing misinformation. There are no fusible links on the starter, but the wires patched in their place are at least a couple sizes smaller. Perhaps if the links had been there thats where the failure would have occured instead of at the bulkhead connector. But then again, I wonder how many links I'd have burnt up before I found where the problem really was. I'd probably be better off putting them back in now. My thanks to everyone that replied. (P-body rides again!) > Do the 2 wires comming off the big terminal of the solonoid stay as the > same wire; or do they have some heat shrink tubing stuff over an inch [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > unless you like taking a DRAWING and try to match it up to what your > working on." >Eureka! I finally found it. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >surprised it lasted 22 years. Radio & heater lights seem brighter now. Maybe >its my imagination, but it seems to run smoother too. Go figure... Glad I was there for you. I don't know it all, but I do have a few clues saved up from 35 yrs of wrench pulling. I have a question that no one has answered in a prior post (OK I have 2). I have an 93 2.0 liter SOC engine with all wiring and EMC that I'd like to swap into my 84 2.5 liter. The 2.0 liter is ported injection Vs TBI on the original engine and I probably need the fuel pump as well. Before I get my lazy a.s in gear, can anyone give me a HP rating on this engine before I waste my time on work for no appreciable benefit. I'm looking for a wee boost in HP and decent mileage with the stress on mileage. A V6 is not in my cards. I find it most irritating not having delay wipers. I snagged a wiper control arm with delay wiper switch. I do not have the delay module. Anyone have a clue what other GM products used the same module or who might have one up for grabs? An additional clue as to where it is located would be helpful especially on other GMs. Pete I gogoled it and you may no like what you read, but it looks like Rodney's page will answer the question. I reads to me like you need a new motor as the board part of it?!?! I could be wrong. But this should get you much closer to the goal. http://www.rodneydickman.com/DelayWiperKit.html >On Fri, 05 May 2006 02:13:56 GMT, "Stumpson" <nospam@sbcglobal.net> >I find it most irritating not having delay wipers. I snagged a >wiper control arm with delay wiper switch. I do not have the delay [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Pete >> Eureka! I finally found it. >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Pete Hello Pete, I too have an 84 Fiero with electrical problems. There are 2 Fusible links at the large stud on the starter. They look jusy like regular wire and are a PAIN to get at. Here's what I did. The conduit to the starter has 3 wires in it 2 red wires and the purple one to the small starter terminal. I pulled the 2 red wires out of the conduit and ran them back to the rear bulkhead in another piece of conduit. (some part stores sell conduit and TEE joints for them). I Ran another piece of #10 wire from the rear of the alternator and put 2 pieces of #14 fusible link wire from it to the red wires. When it's cold the wires aren't hard to deal with. Also, the delay wiper module IIRC is located between the wiper switch plug and the wiring harness. It should be under the steering column mount. I plan on doing this on my own Fiero. Enjoy, Dave phrog94044atyahoo.com >Hello Pete, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >phrog94044atyahoo.com I was planning on removing all fusible links and replacing with the oversize fuses as seen on Asian imports. Getting the fuse block from a wrecker is easy, finding a spot to place it is another issue. Because the wiring is so 'light', I will also splice relays into the lite switch because it seems to get too hot. Then run a large wire to the front compartment and splice in relays for the heater, rad fan, and headlites. Pete |
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