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Car Forum / Antique and Collectibles / Antique Cars / August 2004Bogus VIN plate on '67 Firebird ragtop?
The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe, 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and pull it apart.) One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame since I've had it. It would feel better to have the car match the title. > The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe, > 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > It would feel better to have the car match the title. I'm not sure about 1967 cars, I do know 1968 cars have at least a partial VIN on the cowl plate. If you have VIN Numbers that do not match the Title, or the car, you have serious Issues. If the Production numbers do not match between the title and VIN, then you do not have to title to your vehicle. If they do not, your best coarse of action is not a pleasant one. As it involves turning all the info and the vehicle over to your state police. If they do match. It is possible someone did a convertible conversion on the car. Then someone else put the code on the title out of error. This sort of thing has happened before. It can be a problem to get straightened out. Charles Probably, I had to. Or would have but I had an escape hatch and got the incorrect# titled. Since I don't plan on selling the car it doesn't matter. In your case I'd talk to NJ DMV and find out what they need to correct the digit (process may be on their website) and go that route. HTH, Norm > The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe, > 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > It would feel better to have the car match the title. -- "The web has got me caught. I'd rather have the blues than what I've got." <via Nat King Cole> Several alternatives: 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare" to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below. 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967 VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post. Just some thoughts... > X-No-Archive: Yes > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > "The web has got me caught. I'd rather have the blues than what I've > got." <via Nat King Cole> > Several alternatives: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Just some thoughts... In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car in Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the generial public usually goes to the BMV. Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime area's, no matter whom you are. Charles > > Several alternatives: > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > area's, no matter whom you are. > Charles True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under the hood). Cheers, Bill > > > Several alternatives: > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Cheers, > Bill A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the fenders, hood, & door. Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker lamp out. This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is rampant. Charles > > > > Several alternatives: > > > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the > fenders, hood, & door. Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection. > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker > lamp out. So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered such a request from the police anytime or anywhere. > This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is > rampant. Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-) Cheers, Bill > > > > > Several alternatives: > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection. Even when coming in from another state? > > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of > > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered > such a request from the police anytime or anywhere. Depending on the area of the state of Ohio, Yes they will. Far less likely in a small rural town, then in a larger city, with a high auto theft rate. It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know. > > This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is > > rampant. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Cheers, > Bill BTW: the one time I was pulled over in NJ (my brother lives out there), The officer did run my VIN number. Maybe because I was from out of state, driving an older van. Charles (SNIP) > > > A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN > > > Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Even when coming in from another state? IF the vehicle is being registered as antique then there's no inspection...even if brought in from another state. Technically the vehicle is supposed to be "self-inspected" by the owner. > > > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of > > > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know. Well bikers have plain view VIN plates...not so almost any vehicle built prior to 1968/69. That's when the federal law required VIN number plates to be readable from outside the windshield...most were then affixed to the driver's winshield frame. Cheers, Bill > It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know. Yet another reason for me to avoid Ohio. My bike ('72 Triumph) has no VIN. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker > lamp out. Here in New Jersey, they run the plate number through the hotlist and check it against the registration card that you carry. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. > > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of > > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people > he gives it to. I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief where I live. In Ohio it is common for thief's to switch license plates every few hours on a stolen car. If they did not run the VIN they would not catch many of them. Charles > I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at > home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief > where I live. You are required by law to carry it in New Jersey. I keep mine in my wallet. If you are stopped, you will have to produce license, registration, and insurance card. Failure to produce any of them on demand will set you back $100 or so. You will also have to show up in court to prove that you actually do have the documents. If you didn't produce one because you don't have one, it gets *real* expensive. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. > I never Carry my vehicle registration with me. I always leave it at > home or in the office at work. I leave nothing in my cars to tell a thief > where I live. If you do NOT have the vehicle registration with you in NJ and a cop stops you, the fine is $150+ for failure to produce vehicle documentation. Cheers, Bill Even if you are from a diff state and just driving through? If so, that seems harsh. -Geno 1985 Blue Camaro 2.8L w/T-tops (148k and going... getting worried) 1988 Blue Firebird Formula 5.0L w/T-tops (For sale for $2,200) Still looking for an '82-'84 T/A w/T-tops for parts from one > Several alternatives: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Just some thoughts... I just bought a 76 Chevrolet Nova in Texas, and brought it to Arkansas.... part of the proceedings to get license plates on a car brought in from out of Arkansas is that one of the sheriffs deputies had to come out to the parking lot of the courthouse,and verify that the VIN matched the title. Sounds like a typo was made somewhere along the line with one of the title transfers - if you look at the numpad on your keyboard you'll see that the 6 is right over the three. Its quite possible that the number was altered during one of the title transfers. Since you've owned the car for 25 years, and could get several people to sign affidavits to that effect, you could go to a common pleas Judge and submit all the info, including a signed statement by you. I bought a car in PA that had been through two other owners, but not transferred into their names/states, and never roadworthy during that time. I had bill of sales from both PO's as well as the last "good" signed titled, and an Ohio out-of-state inspection showing the VIN to match the old title. I went the court route since it was my only option short of tracking down the several previous owners and convincing them to go back and re-register it in each of their respective states..... The Judges office held the paperwork for about 5 weeks, during which time they did a hot vehicle search several times. They called me to come pick up the bench verdict directing the BMV to issue me a new Ohio title for the vehicle. Might be worth investigating in NJ. > The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe, > 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > It would feel better to have the car match the title. Apparently you have more of a problem than you realize. If you hold a Pennsylvania motor vehicle title that was never officially transferred by a notary or a PennDOT agent to a subsequent owned, it still officially belongs to the previous owner no matter how many times it changed hand subsequently. In PA the owner MUST appear in front of a legal transfer agent, and prove they are the owner listed on the title and sign the 'Seller' section in the presence of the official and obtain their seal.. Short of possessing a 'Power of attorney' one can not legally transfer a Pa title by ANY other manor. Whatever anyone in a NG may tell you, a Pa title that is signed without the seal is worthless. I would suggest you contact PennDOT to determine the owner of record. They can tell that by the title number. Once you determine the legal owner of record you can contact them. The owner of record will need to apply for a duplicate title, the signed open title you have is no longer transferable, that can then be properly exchange for a NJ title. If you can show the actual sale took place more than six month previously you will not need to pay the NJ sales tax. You do not need insurance to effect the tittle transfer but you will need insurance to obtain a license tag. mike hunt > Sounds like a typo was made somewhere along the line with one of the title > transfers - if you look at the numpad on your keyboard you'll see that the 6 [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > > It would feel better to have the car match the title. |
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