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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (Australian group) / May 2005

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4WDs and the environment?

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Mark Elkington - 25 May 2005 12:06 GMT
Hi all,

The following rant is from a non-owner who nonetheless had a very enjoyable
weekend using someone else's 4WD.

Thoughts, comments, flames?

"Shrink-wrap over everything we buy is one thing. I recently joined with
friends on a four-wheel drive weekend: kids, tents, bacon and eggs. And 100
litres of nonrenewable fossil fuel per vehicle, which we converted into
about 300kg of greenhouse gas. I'm not picking on recreational vehicles
particularly..."

http://www.users.on.net/~elkos/

Mark
Rainbow Warrior - 25 May 2005 13:00 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Mark

Cool he's managed to increase the density of something, put 100kg in and get
300kg out.
Mark Elkington - 25 May 2005 13:10 GMT
> Cool he's managed to increase the density of something, put 100kg in and
> get
> 300kg out.

"100 litres of nonrenewable fossil fuel per vehicle"

So you could deduce we had 3 vehicles.

I'm assuming about a 50/50 weight split in the main combustion products,
i.e. CO2 and H2O.

Mark
Michael - 25 May 2005 14:16 GMT
>> Cool he's managed to increase the density of something, put 100kg in
>> and get
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I'm assuming about a 50/50 weight split in the main combustion
> products, i.e. CO2 and H2O.

Don't mind the fact that many 4WD vehicles use less fuel than your average
Falcodore.
Bristan - 26 May 2005 00:56 GMT
>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> get
> 300kg out.

He may be correct, Rainbow, as the mass (rather than density) of the
combustion products is always greater than the mass of fuel burnt as the
weight of combining oxygen has to be taken into account.
eg for CO2 , carbon (Atomic Weight 12) is combined with oxygen (AW 16) in
the ratio of  12 carbon to 32 oxygen. This means that for every 12 grams of
carbon from the fuel used, 32 grams of oxygen from the air is combined  to
make 44 gms of CO2.
Bristan
Jim - 26 May 2005 00:02 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Mark

The extract means little by itself. What exactly was he bitching about ? He
went with some friends for an enjoyable 4wd weekend and felt guilty about
the environmental impact ? Eezee one.
So don't go !
Mike Harding - 26 May 2005 09:53 GMT
>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>about 300kg of greenhouse gas. I'm not picking on recreational vehicles
>particularly..."

Had he stayed at home and used his central heating / air
conditioning and electricity / gas not to mention all the
energy which went into building his house, TV set, DVD
player, computer, car... and watched some crap on TV
would he have: 1 - saved energy, 2 - been a happier
better more fulfilled person?

Personally I'd worry more about what the developing
Chinese economy will do than a couple of 4WDs.
Anyway the planet is self-regulating - if we stuff it up too
much it'll kill a lot of us and then we won't stuff it up so
much. Think GAIA.

Mike Harding
Roy Wilke - 26 May 2005 10:14 GMT
>>Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Mike Harding

Ah, the joys of selective quoting.

The writer went on to say, after the bit quoted above:

"Your return flight to Melbourne for the weekend used a similar amount
of fuel per head. Every time you put on the air con rather than a jumper
you become part of the problem. In your 30 square eveless heated
towel-rail downlight-constellation ducted-air McMansion.

"Take a drive (no, a bus) to the 2600 megawatt Bayswater Power Station,
and boggle at the mountain of coal conveyor-fed direct from mine to
furnace. Every time you flick a switch another kilogram of carbon goes
up into the atmosphere.

"There’s a disconnect between our lifestyle and its consequences. Assume
for the moment that they’re right: the 97% of scientists who say that
global warming heading towards catastrophic climate change is real, and
greenhouse gas emissions from burning coal, oil, and gas are the primary
cause. Decades hence our children’s children, living with this, will
incredulously ask their grandparents, What were you thinking…? The
epithet 'future eaters' would be apt."
Phred - 26 May 2005 11:19 GMT
[...]

>"There’s a disconnect between our lifestyle and its consequences. Assume
>for the moment that they’re right: the 97% of scientists who say that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>incredulously ask their grandparents, What were you thinking…? The
>epithet 'future eaters' would be apt."

As someone said several decades ago: "Why should we care about future
generations -- what have they ever done for us?"   ;-)

Cheers, Phred.

Signature

ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

Jim - 26 May 2005 11:29 GMT
> [...]
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> --
> ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

Yes, its just another way of spending the kids enheritance.
Rainbow Warrior - 26 May 2005 11:47 GMT
"Roy Wilke" <noidontwantanyspamthankyouverymuch@thisisp.com> wrote in
message news:42959383$0$11958
> global warming heading towards catastrophic climate change is real, and
> greenhouse gas emissions from burning coal, oil, and gas are the primary
> cause. Decades hence our children’s children, living with this, will
> incredulously ask their grandparents, What were you thinking…? The
> epithet 'future eaters' would be apt."

We would reply, "what ever we wanted to, seeing your parents wouldn't listen
to us anyway."
Rainbow Warrior - 26 May 2005 11:50 GMT
> Had he stayed at home and used his central heating / air
> conditioning and electricity / gas not to mention all the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Mike Harding

And he could cetainly start by protesting other motor sports first, and
don't forget how many tree's are sacrificed for football fields, schools,
shopping centres & golf courses every year. :P

Signature

Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
Who needs lockers when you got secondaries.

CL3500/4300-> GH2600/2700-> S2A2300/3000->
GJ1600/2000->RR3500/3900 ->GQ4200/4200

Jim - 26 May 2005 23:13 GMT
> > Had he stayed at home and used his central heating / air
> > conditioning and electricity / gas not to mention all the
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
> Who needs lockers when you got secondaries.
And of course he's a lil  veggie and doesn't eat animals that produce more
methane per kilo than you can poke a stick at.

Cheers
Jim
 
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