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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (Australian group) / September 2005

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surf questions

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tony - 11 Sep 2005 12:17 GMT
I'm looking at possibly buying a 1996 3.0 litre TD intercooled surf as my
next car.

One problem I have, is it is only rated at 1500kgs towing. Is this correct?
A commodore can tow 2200kg with appropriate equipment installed:(

Second question - what would be the expected fuel consumption for average
city driving, non loaded.

Thanks in advance.
Tony
Tony  Smith - 11 Sep 2005 12:50 GMT
> I'm looking at possibly buying a 1996 3.0 litre TD intercooled surf
> as my next car.

This may or may not be a good idea, you need your eyes wide open buying
a Surf. Might be an idea to look back in the archives and see some of
the discussions regarding the pitfalls.

> One problem I have, is it is only rated at 1500kgs towing. Is this
> correct?  A commodore can tow 2200kg with appropriate equipment
> installed:(

Yep. Lots of luck, because the Oz model 4-runner has a higher rating.
Still, whilst the Surf has pretty good front discs, the rear drums are
nothing to write home about.

You will get no help from Toyota who will piously say that they know
nothing about surfs as they were never imported into Australia by
Toyota. Providing you have access to the services of a Lawyer and an
Engineer, you could try getting yours uprated on an individual basis.

> Second question - what would be the expected fuel consumption for
> average city driving, non loaded.

This will vary wildly depending on your right foot. Providing yours
still has the woefully inadequate 55lt fuel tank, expect anything from
350km to over 500km. Pull anything with it and expect 350km to be
something you dream of.

Tony Smith
Barnsey - 12 Sep 2005 13:17 GMT
I'm starting to think that Surfs and homosexuals have something in common.

They get too much publicity.
tony - 13 Sep 2005 08:43 GMT
well I consider Toyota to make the best 4wds, and a surf is the only modern
turbo diesel I can currently afford.

> I'm starting to think that Surfs and homosexuals have something in common.
>
> They get too much publicity.
Scotty - 13 Sep 2005 10:42 GMT
> well I consider Toyota to make the best 4wds, and a surf is the only
> modern
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> They get too much publicity.

Nothing wrong with em, they get waaaay to much of a hard time as many people
seem to think that theres no parts available.

Theres not much difference fom the Australian 4runner to the surfs, all
parts available for them and if theres anything thats quiet Surf specific
they are all available ex NZ over night(ish)
Barnsey - 13 Sep 2005 10:48 GMT
>> well I consider Toyota to make the best 4wds, and a surf is the only
>> modern
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> parts available for them and if theres anything thats quiet Surf specific
> they are all available ex NZ over night(ish)

Yeah, remove the 4X and that's what I meant. There's so many threads on 4wd
forums about Surfs.

Are they legit, or dodgey?
Tony  Smith - 13 Sep 2005 12:45 GMT
> >"tony" <tony m> wrote in message
> news:4326842c$0$21235$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Are they legit, or dodgey?

The problem is that all too many people are prepared to believe that
all these vehicles just happen to have done less than 60k and that they
have all been superbly maintained as they have never been off bitumen.

Of the three beliefs, only the last is even remotely true.

Fact 1./

All surfs are "clocked". As it happens outside Australia, the seller
has no knowledge of it (ha! bloody ha!) and therefore no australian law
has been broken.

Fact 2./
A car in Japan is a disposable commodity, much as we regard disposable
razors or milk bottles. As a result, and given the high cost of
servicing, on average a Japanese owned vehicle receives the bare
minimum (if any at all) servicing.

The trick is to take a punt that it has suffered no lasting harm prior
to your ownership.

Other things.

All parts are available from NZ, (and elsewhere) at a price. Many local
service centres know nothing about Surfs, particularly the electronics,
you get to pay while they find out. It's important to deal with someone
who has an established track record.

Whilst most parts (over 95% by raw numbers) are identical to the Oz
model, there are some big differences in the engines.

I can't speak for the 1KZ 3litre as I don't own one, but I can say with
sureity (having rebuilt one) that there is very little commonality
between the Australian model 2L (2.4litre) engine and 2L-TE (2.4lite)
engine.

Contrary to many people's belief there is not much commonality between
the (rare as it was only ever fitted to the "bastard" Bundera
Landcruiser) Australian 2L-T and the 2L-TE.

Anyway, I'm sort of happy with mine, the engine rebuild was the result
of my own mis-diagnosis of a problem, combined with neglect. However, I
make the strong point that any 80s to mid 90s Surf is probably now on
its second or third Australian owner given the shut down of the LVIS
scheme several years ago. A prospective buyer should be very wary that
they know what they are buying, and on a year for year basis, the Surf
should be significantly cheaper than the Australian model (where an
equivalent exists) because there are some "gotchas" waiting for any
Surf owner.

Compare the price of a rebuilt Surf pump with the Australian puyrely
mechanical one, then figure in at least a week longer without your
vehicle waiting for the pump to do a round trip to NZ (I was lucky,
with direct flights I got mine back quicker than I could have got a
pump from Brisbane, not everyone will be as lucky).

Figure on a rebuild kit for a 2L-TE costing between 2 and 3 times more
than that for a 2L or 3L engine.

The cooling system on any surf is only just adequate when everything is
in perfect working order, radiators cost heaps and the Oz model will
not fit without expensive panel bashing.

The A/C system in all Surfs up to 96 year model are R12 based. The
compressors do not take kindly to R12 substitutes and generally sh.t
themselves in short order. After fitting a new compressor and
converting to R134a the already marginal a/c is now woeful as R134a is
not as good a refrigerant as R12.

The suspension (particularly the rear) is horridly soft. The front can
be reset, the rear springs require replacement.

etc. etc.

Tony Smith

I still sort of like my Surf, in any even tI'm stuck with it for a
lonmg time as nobody is going to give me a fraction of what I've got
tied up in it, so I get to wear it out.
Barnsey - 13 Sep 2005 13:18 GMT
"Tony Smith" <adolphuzspriggs@ hotmail.com> wrote in message

More articulate stuff than Barnsey can mansge
kevcat - 13 Sep 2005 17:51 GMT
> Figure on a rebuild kit for a 2L-TE costing between 2 and 3 times more
> than that for a 2L or 3L engine.

My rebuild kit was the same as the normal 2L
the gasket kit came with all gaskets for both engines(was marked
2L/2L-t/3L)

the pistons I got were .020 oversize, for the 2L-T(larger gudgen pin
than 2L) from "Engines Australia" were $110 each including rings

I didn't need to do the pump as BP paid for that but it was only
$620(not 2L-TE, just 2L-T)

bearings and such were all standard size and cost the same as 2L(larger
crank journals)

I'd say the only real expense would be the 2L-TE pump and the Turbo

Kev
Figjam - 14 Sep 2005 13:24 GMT
Hmmmm musbe why it desintergrated after sellin it

>> Figure on a rebuild kit for a 2L-TE costing between 2 and 3 times more
>> than that for a 2L or 3L engine.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Kev
kevcat - 14 Sep 2005 19:21 GMT
lucky I got rid of it when I did then huh?
bought a complete engine for it when I sold it
I still have the old turbo diesel sitting in my back yard, just needs a
head swap and it's going into the old clunker Hilux

the one I will use to pull you out of every mud hole you go into

Kev

> Hmmmm musbe why it desintergrated after sellin it
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> >
> > Kev
Scotty - 14 Sep 2005 10:05 GMT
> The problem is that all too many people are prepared to believe that
> all these vehicles just happen to have done less than 60k and that they
> have all been superbly maintained as they have never been off bitumen.

I purchased a 1984 Surf (2door fibre glass rear) in NZ and with respect to
the Kms it had travelled (Only 84 on the clock at time of purchase) I made a
deal that I would replace the cam belt as it was due at 90 anyway. Took the
old one off and found it to be shagged AND NOT the origional unit! So, as
far as Kms travelled went I dont know , the origional had done 80K then
changed to another which I hoped was the one that I had removed.  Who says
that it was only the second belt? Dont know and never will.

Who cares you ask? I never had any issues with the car except for the fact
of I had to replace a clutch after about 20,000ks of hard abuse.

Im now on my forth one and loving them.

> Of the three beliefs, only the last is even remotely true.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> has no knowledge of it (ha! bloody ha!) and therefore no australian law
> has been broken.

See above speil

> Fact 2./
> A car in Japan is a disposable commodity, much as we regard disposable
> razors or milk bottles. As a result, and given the high cost of
> servicing, on average a Japanese owned vehicle receives the bare
> minimum (if any at all) servicing.

Mine was in pretty good nick for its kms so either a lot of work had gone
into its sale or someone had serviced it everyso often.

> The trick is to take a punt that it has suffered no lasting harm prior
> to your ownership.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you get to pay while they find out. It's important to deal with someone
> who has an established track record.

Good advice, take that on board if ya looking to get yorus serviced. Ive
heard of a few people sellign thiers due to local mechanics bagging them
cause they didnt know how to service them correctly. Rumours I dont know.

> Whilst most parts (over 95% by raw numbers) are identical to the Oz
> model, there are some big differences in the engines.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> between the Australian model 2L (2.4litre) engine and 2L-TE (2.4lite)
> engine.

Mine was a 2L which was almost the same as the 2-LT and 2-LTE (Electronic
ignition or something that goes wrong with undue regularity). Popular to add
the heads from the 2Ls to the fuc*ed 2LT as the 2L was apparently slightly
higher compression.

> Contrary to many people's belief there is not much commonality between
> the (rare as it was only ever fitted to the "bastard" Bundera
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Figure on a rebuild kit for a 2L-TE costing between 2 and 3 times more
> than that for a 2L or 3L engine.

2Ls cost around $2000 second hand in NZ and 2LTs around $2500 guarenteed
etc. Will see these prices here Id say as well as that was back in 2000.

> The cooling system on any surf is only just adequate when everything is
> in perfect working order, radiators cost heaps and the Oz model will
> not fit without expensive panel bashing.

Anyone can recore ya old one unless its really farked

> The A/C system in all Surfs up to 96 year model are R12 based. The
> compressors do not take kindly to R12 substitutes and generally sh.t
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The suspension (particularly the rear) is horridly soft. The front can
> be reset, the rear springs require replacement.

Don't I know it! only 350Kg load limit in the rear of em.  Spring set cost
and new shockies all round will set ya back $1700 or so depending on what ya
buget is.

> etc. etc.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> lonmg time as nobody is going to give me a fraction of what I've got
> tied up in it, so I get to wear it out.

Just enjoy it while ya flog it. Ive flogged all mine and they stand up quite
well.

Mines currently a V6 so a tad more grunt than all my previous.
 
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