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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (Australian group) / September 2006Landcruiser and LPG
Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted to gas? The LPG conversion centre says it is fine to do it (as you would expect them too) but Toyota are hesitant. They did not say don't do it, but they did say that the Landcruiser is NOT on their "recommended LPG conversion" list. I would be interested in knowing about any pros or cons from people who have had it done before. Garry > Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted to > gas? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Garry I have seen them done , couple around here and one with a chev on gas :) goes rather well as they all should .Personally I wouldn't put much credence in T's approved list. >> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted >> to gas? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > goes rather well as they all should .Personally I wouldn't put much > credence in T's approved list. Agreed, Toyota don't like LPG unless they do it themselves and AFAIK the only one they do currently is the V6 thats in the Avalon Taxi's. I've seen dozens of Landcruisers including 100 Series on LPG and not heard any negative comments. Daryl >>> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted >>> to gas? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Daryl Thanks Guys. I am breathing a little easier now!! Garry Hi, I have an August 2004 UZJ100 on LPG. I bought it new with gas from the dealer on the understanding that although Toyota would not cover warranty the dealer would. Good thing as in March 2005 the rear right piston broke a con rod and vented the engine block to the world and oil all over the road. A new engine block was sourced from Japan and the engine rebuilt. Found out that the LPG installer did the petrol plumbing wrong and had 2 feeds of high pressure petrol at the rear of the injectors instead of I high and a low pressure return to the tank. $18,500.00 was the insurance claim. Apart from that disaster car runs great, on a run petrol gives me 13.5 ltrs per 100 on LPG 16 ltrs per 100. City driving 16-17 on petrol, 18-22 on LPG. There is no noticeable difference in performance between LPG and petrol. The car has a unichip and did not need different mapping as the Dyno showed that power out put was very similar. I have a 100 ltr tank which has 80 ltrs usable. I also run 1 tank of LPG then 1 quarter tank of petrol. I have notice the pre 2004 100's with the 4.5 straight 6 on LPG. my old 80 series was also on LPG but no where near the power of petrol. Bludge >>> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted >>> to gas? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Daryl > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Bludge Thanks for the information Bludge. Is yours a 4.5L straight 6? Could you have made a claim against the installer for the wrong fuel flow being fitted? Garry "Garry Beattie" wrote in message news:44fb4328$0l. > Thanks for the information Bludge. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Garry Garry, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, my cruiser is the UZJ100 that is the 4.7ltr V8. If I was to do this over again I would go for the LPG injectors instead of the IMPCO LPG govenor. Bludge its called a mixer > If I was to do this over again I would go for the LPG injectors instead of > the IMPCO LPG govenor. > > Bludge > "Garry Beattie" wrote in message news:44fb4328$0l. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bludge OK. I am not sure what system I am having installed. I just booked my car in to the LPG Conversion Centre in Bundaberg and am hoping that he knows what he is doing!! Garry well if you tuned it corectly it would run better on lpg than petrol as lpg has a higher Cetane rating than shitty ol ulp a drunk after a night on the piss has more octane in his piss than ulp hth > I have an August 2004 UZJ100 on LPG. I bought it new with gas from the > dealer on the understanding that although Toyota would not cover [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> >>Daryl Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen numerous 6 cyl cruisers with no adjustment left at 120,000 km. When you do the sums conversion cost, valve adjustments at 80,000 km, then again at 120,000 km and head off and re build at 12,000 - 150,000 km it negates any savings on running on lpg. With valve adjust on a 6 cyl at about 3.5 hours plus shims @ $11 each (there are a possible 24 of them to replace) it is hardly worth the effort. The V8 is in the same boat but with more valves to adjust and the added bonus of when it burns them out there are 2 heads to reco it false economy unless you buy the car new, put it on gas and piss it off @ aprox 90,000 km, this is assuming you cover the 90k quickly and who ever fitted the gas has tuned it correctly and it is not running lean under any condition. This is what I tell my customers , give em the facts and let them make their own decisions. Also no hope of any Warranty on any valve related problems if gas fitted. >> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted to >> gas? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > goes rather well as they all should .Personally I wouldn't put much > credence in T's approved list. > Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only down > fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. are you talking about burnt valves or valve recession? Kev recession then finally burning as the only sign to the driver is a rougher than normal idle, too late then. hence the running out of adjustment as the valves recess and require thinner shims. once the recession starts it speeds up, hence can get 80k before first adjust then will need it again in 40k. may be due to running leaner as the gas system gets older. >> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only >> down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. > > are you talking about burnt valves or valve recession? > > Kev one leads to the other recession causes premature wear/burn >> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only >> down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. > > are you talking about burnt valves or valve recession? > > Kev > decisions. Also no hope of any Warranty on any valve related problems if > gas fitted. Toyota have already told me that if the car was under warranty it would void ALL warranty on the vehicle as they do not approve it. Garry > Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only down > fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen numerous 6 cyl I seriously doubt you have a clue . believe what you want, can only pass on what I see on a regular basis >> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only >> down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen >> numerous 6 cyl > I seriously doubt you have a clue . > believe what you want, can only pass on what I see on a regular basis >>> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only >>> down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen >>> numerous 6 cyl >> I seriously doubt you have a clue . I am glad you agree you lied. never said anything like that, your obviously the weekend expert so good for you, nice to see you follow the ignorance is bliss theory, keeps me in buisness:) >> believe what you want, can only pass on what I see on a regular basis >>>> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > I am glad you agree you lied. > never said anything like that, your obviously the weekend expert so good for > you, nice to see you follow the ignorance is bliss theory, keeps me in > buisness:) You will never get my business . come a little closer and learn why . >>> believe what you want, can only pass on what I see on a regular basis >>>>> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> >> I am glad you agree you lied. > Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only down > fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen numerous 6 cyl [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > decisions. Also no hope of any Warranty on any valve related problems if gas > fitted. I haven't had any experience with 100 series Cruisers but that problems you describe sound very odd for an alloy head which are usually fitted with hardened valve seats and better valves to cope with ULP so LPG shouldn't be a problem. I have heard of those problems on iron head 60 series engines. Do petrol Patrols on LPG suffer the same problems? Daryl unfortunatley you live in the dreamtime assuming all alloy heads come prefitted with "Hardened" valves/seats >> Sure 100 series Landcruisers run well on gas, no problems there, only >> down fall is that they WILL burn out valves prematurely. have seen [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Daryl > unfortunatley you live in the dreamtime assuming all alloy heads come > prefitted with > "Hardened" valves/seats No dream at all, they must come with some form of hardened valve seat, its possible though that the ones fitted by Toyota aren't hard enough. Daryl >> unfortunatley you live in the dreamtime assuming all alloy heads come >> prefitted with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Daryl I took the trouble to ask the local repco head machinist , two words was the reply involving travel and sex... I suspect from what he said it is not common at all. >>> unfortunatley you live in the dreamtime assuming all alloy heads come >>> prefitted with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the reply involving travel and sex... > I suspect from what he said it is not common at all. Like I said previously I have no direct knowledge of those particular LC models and LPG but normally any engine suitable to run on ULP shouldn't have any valve problems on LPG. Daryl ok i'll say this once and once only do not assume all alloy heads come with hardened valve seats > No dream at all, they must come with some form of hardened valve seat, its > possible though that the ones fitted by Toyota aren't hard enough. > > Daryl > ok i'll say this once and once only > do not assume all alloy heads come with hardened valve seats That's accurate as far as it goes. I've had sad experiences with VWs and with my boxer BMW where the valve seat inserts in the alloy heads were not up to the additional pounding they received when running on ULP. BUT. I'd like a little detail on how an alloy head designed for ULP would not have valve seat inserts of sufficient "hardness" to cope with ULP -- ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? > That's accurate as far as it goes. I've had sad experiences with VWs > and with my boxer BMW where the valve seat inserts in the alloy heads [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'd like a little detail on how an alloy head designed for ULP would > not have valve seat inserts of sufficient "hardness" to cope with ULP > ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? > ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? Well yes actually. But I don't see what either has to do at all with the question I asked. To clarify. Both the VW and the BMW to which I referred were pre-ULP engines that I was running on ULP unmodified. Both manufacturers either had equivalent parts (heads) available or you could (as I did) buy after-market ULP valve seats and valves and have then fitted. My question, which you did not even begin to answer, was what is the difference between the valve seat material and fixing requirements for ULP and those for LPG? HTH -- >> ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? >> ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > difference between the valve seat material and fixing requirements for > ULP and those for LPG? Excellent question. The answer should be interesting. Daryl >>> ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? >>> ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Daryl I am waiting for the foot tapping to start :) it can be done with alloy blocks for bores but I have never seen just an alloy head and no hard seat. >>>> ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? >>>> ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > it can be done with alloy blocks for bores but I have never seen just > an alloy head and no hard seat. Its possible the valve seats used by Toyota don't perform well with LPG but an alloy head without hardened valves seats? Daryl w-ellllllllllllll so your sayin that theyr not actualy hard at all now are we ??? > Its possible the valve seats used by Toyota don't perform well with LPG > but an alloy head without hardened valves seats? > > Daryl > w-ellllllllllllll so your sayin that theyr not actualy hard at all > now are we ??? I'm still waiting for you to tell me the difference in hardness or the difference in fixing methodology required as between ULP and LPG. -- well keep waiting..................... > I'm still waiting for you to tell me the difference in hardness or the > difference in fixing methodology required as between ULP and LPG. > well keep waiting..................... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > -- So you are clueless then. Don't bother replying, it's obvious really, I will not make the mistake of ever giving anything you say more than a passing glance again. -- you jus keep tellin yaself that > So you are clueless then. > > Don't bother replying, it's obvious really, I will not make the mistake > of ever giving anything you say more than a passing glance again. > you jus keep tellin yaself that > >> So you are clueless then. >> >> Don't bother replying, it's obvious really, I will not make the mistake >> of ever giving anything you say more than a passing glance again. No need to repeat the truth > w-ellllllllllllll so your sayin that theyr not actualy hard at all now are > we ??? Not at all. If they do fail when the engine is running on LPG it could mean they are not hard enough but they must have some form of hardening. You appear to either know nothing about the subject or you want to keep what you do know a secret, why? Daryl aaah finally a smart man ! > Not at all. > If they do fail when the engine is running on LPG it could mean they are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Daryl > ever heard of manufacturers building to a budget ? > ever wondered why manufacturers sell so many parts ? Tap dance and evasion noted >> That's accurate as far as it goes. I've had sad experiences with VWs >> and with my boxer BMW where the valve seat inserts in the alloy heads [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> I'd like a little detail on how an alloy head designed for ULP would >> not have valve seat inserts of sufficient "hardness" to cope with ULP blow it out your exhaust port > Tap dance and evasion noted > blow it out your exhaust port > >> Tap dance and evasion noted in your direction certainly , but remember is aint a mating call. well in that case i fart in your general direction > in your direction certainly , but remember is aint a mating call. > well in that case i fart in your general direction > >> in your direction certainly , but remember is aint a mating call. LaBiggus pitoeeee > ok i'll say this once and once only > do not assume all alloy heads come with hardened valve seats Are you saying that the valve seats are cut straight from the alloy? Daryl > Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted to > gas? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > that the Landcruiser is NOT on their "recommended LPG conversion" list. which is strange as the Landcruiser petrol sales would be hurting somewhat with the petrol prices and an LPG recomendation from them would have to have a beneficial impact, especially if they had them factory fitted or at least a dealer fitted option Kev >> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted to >> gas? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kev Have to agree there. But perhaps warrenty issues with the valves wouldnt be worth it for the big T ? The only difference between the LPG and non LPG V6 engines id valves, seats and guides. if an engine is not on the lpg list it has std valves ect. if Toyota were to put it on the gas list they would be wide open to every man and his dog wanting warranty on valve damage. just cause its not on the list doesn't mean it won't run on gas, just means it may wear prematurely. >>> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted >>> to gas? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Have to agree there. But perhaps warrenty issues with the valves wouldnt > be worth it for the big T ? > The only difference between the LPG and non LPG V6 engines id valves, seats > and guides. if an engine is not on the lpg list it has std valves ect. if [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>Have to agree there. But perhaps warrenty issues with the valves wouldnt >>be worth it for the big T ? I take it the Toyota V8 and 4.5L six have a cast iron heads then? Kev >> The only difference between the LPG and non LPG V6 engines id valves, >> seats and guides. if an engine is not on the lpg list it has std [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Kev I thought they should be alloy ? >> I take it the Toyota V8 and 4.5L six have a cast iron heads then? >> >> Kev > I thought they should be alloy ? I was led to believe it is alloy but I don't really know. Garry they both have alloy heads >> The only difference between the LPG and non LPG V6 engines id valves, >> seats and guides. if an engine is not on the lpg list it has std valves [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Kev > they both have alloy heads > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Kev with hardened seats so recession is terribly slow. ( I though you were a liar) > they both have alloy heads in that case why would valve recession be a problem over the klms you mention? never heard of an alloy head vehicle having problems like that Kev nop jus poor quality valves/seats > I take it the Toyota V8 and 4.5L six have a cast iron heads then? > > Kev >>> Does anyone know anyone who has had a Landcruiser 100 series converted >>> to gas? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Have to agree there. But perhaps warrenty issues with the valves wouldnt > be worth it for the big T ? Maybe they figure if someone can spend $80k on a new Landcruiser then they are not going to be too worried about the cost of fuel. Garry hit the nail on the head mate > Maybe they figure if someone can spend $80k on a new Landcruiser then they > are not going to be too worried about the cost of fuel. > > Garry |
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