Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (Australian group) / November 2006
Xenon lights?
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heilander - 26 Sep 2006 03:18 GMT Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties better?
\Bushy - 27 Sep 2006 00:22 GMT > Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties > better? Bloody oath. Peronsally I prefer 6000k, but the 5000k range is brighter. About to import a bunch of 50 watt HID kits for people to upgrade their spot lights. Should be around the $300.00 delivered. Compare that to all the 35 and 42 watt kits currently available on ebay, and all of the 35 watt kits that people sell commercially from online shops. Philips HID kits for example start at $1100.00 Hella Predator HID lights are $1500.00 each, and are 28 watts. Lightforce 240HID are $1150.00 each and are 35 watt each. Modify your Lightforce XGT's and put a HID kit in them... Instructions on chucking kits into IPF's, Hella Rallye 2000's, and Lightforce lights are here: http://www.hid.isclever.com
For those who prefer to know the legalities on HID's, ADR-77 is 55 pages of technical crud. To put HID bulbs into your headlights, they can not be anything over 4300k, they can not be anything over 35 watts, and the headlights must comply to a European standard (example Nissan Patrol GU's do not comply) and must have head light washers and wipers. The glass must be completely clear and not 'rippled' or whatever the term is.
For auxially spot lights for 'off-road use' I believe that anything goes.
heilander - 27 Sep 2006 03:33 GMT Thanks "Bushy" for the HID info and the link I was going to chuck in a pair of 55w bulbs in my main beams so you saved me some grief I.ll start checking out some spotties I think.Just a thought....since foglights are switchable is it ok to upgrade them with HIDs as well and/or does the wattage drain make relays advisable? The before and after pics are impressive eh?
Scotty
heilander wrote:
> Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties > better? Bloody oath. Peronsally I prefer 6000k, but the 5000k range is brighter. About to import a bunch of 50 watt HID kits for people to upgrade their spot lights. Should be around the $300.00 delivered. Compare that to all the 35 and 42 watt kits currently available on ebay, and all of the 35 watt kits that people sell commercially from online shops. Philips HID kits for example start at $1100.00 Hella Predator HID lights are $1500.00 each, and are 28 watts. Lightforce 240HID are $1150.00 each and are 35 watt each. Modify your Lightforce XGT's and put a HID kit in them... Instructions on chucking kits into IPF's, Hella Rallye 2000's, and Lightforce lights are here: http://www.hid.isclever.com
For those who prefer to know the legalities on HID's, ADR-77 is 55 pages of technical crud. To put HID bulbs into your headlights, they can not be anything over 4300k, they can not be anything over 35 watts, and the headlights must comply to a European standard (example Nissan Patrol GU's do not comply) and must have head light washers and wipers. The glass must be completely clear and not 'rippled' or whatever the term is.
For auxially spot lights for 'off-road use' I believe that anything goes.
Steve - 27 Sep 2006 22:02 GMT >> Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties >> better? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Instructions on chucking kits into IPF's, Hella Rallye 2000's, and > Lightforce lights are here: http://www.hid.isclever.com Gee there great f.cking lights, sample movie clip 2 has to be seen to be believed, i.m definetly gonna buy a set. The brightness is wow just awsome.
steve
> For those who prefer to know the legalities on HID's, ADR-77 is 55 > pages of technical crud. To put HID bulbs into your headlights, they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > For auxially spot lights for 'off-road use' I believe that anything > goes. Malcolm - 28 Sep 2006 03:45 GMT > i.m definetly gonna buy a set. The brightness is wow just awsome. > > steve If anything the results are even better than this indicates. I have a Soarer and the original (projector) main beam headlights were pathetic but as soon as I fitted HIDs (4300K) night driving was transformed. I hardly ever use main beams now, there is a razor sharp cutoff at just the right height right across the field of view and everything under that is lit up like daylight. Just a couple of points to bear in mind: not everybody likes that razor sharp cutoff because there is almost total blackness above it, so although you can see what's important very clearly, anything outside the beam is just about invisible. Also I don't know how happy oncoming drivers would be if it wasn't for the fact that the Soarer suspension self-levels - put a weight in the back without this and you would probably dazzle oncoming vehicles. Finally it's not a good idea to fit them to main beams that might be used for flashing - they take a second or so to "warm up" to full brightness and flashing them tends to destroy the bulbs pretty quick. As a final bonus, the actual bulbs use less power than equivalent halogens and run cooler. I wouldn't be without them having used them for a couple of years now.
Cheers Malcolm
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 28 Sep 2006 07:29 GMT yeah they are good but i wouldnt say awesome if you'v allready had good lights anywho
> Gee there great f.cking lights, sample movie clip 2 has to be seen to be > believed, > i.m definetly gonna buy a set. The brightness is wow just awsome. > > steve Steve - 28 Sep 2006 10:43 GMT > yeah they are good but i wouldnt say awesome if you'v allready had good > lights anywho [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> steve i was being sarcastic with my post, check the video out to see what i mean.
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 28 Sep 2006 14:07 GMT i was bein jus like you :)
> i was being sarcastic with my post, check the video out to see what i > mean. Kev - 28 Sep 2006 12:35 GMT Bushy wrote:
>>Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties >>better? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > For auxially spot lights for 'off-road use' I believe that anything > goes. you forgot to mention they are totally illegal to use as headlights not sure about spotlights, but I would think that HID spots, like most are only legal for offroad use
not to mention that badly adjusted(usually when a trailer is hooked on or a load placed in the back) headlights that bright will see you being highbeamed by everyone coming at you, very friggin annoying if you are travelling and distance
Kev
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 28 Sep 2006 14:07 GMT thats only if ya 4by saggs in the rear department
:P
> not to mention that badly adjusted(usually when a trailer is hooked on or > a load placed in the back) headlights that bright will see you being > highbeamed by everyone coming at you, very friggin annoying if you are > travelling and distance > > Kev Kev - 28 Sep 2006 16:18 GMT > thats only if ya 4by saggs in the rear department > :P I wouldn't know about that the rear of mine is the same as the front and both about 6 inches higher than yours
Kev
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 29 Sep 2006 09:56 GMT so your sayin yours has its skirt up on a hoist ?
> I wouldn't know about that > the rear of mine is the same as the front > and both about 6 inches higher than yours > > Kev quietguy - 06 Oct 2006 01:19 GMT Bushy wrote:
> > Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties > > better? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > About to import a bunch of 50 watt HID kits for people to upgrade their > spot lights. Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner to 130 watt globes, and that made a big difference - but they didn't last long on the back roads I travel so now use 90watters and they are fine.
So, I buy 90 watt globes for $20 or so compared to your 50w for $300? Doesn't sound right, but I am willing to be educated. But some hard data (reviews, direct comparisons etc) would be handy, especially as so many reckon those bluey globes are not much chop
David
Blue Heeler - 06 Oct 2006 01:24 GMT > Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner > to 130 watt globes, and that made a big difference - but they didn't > last long on the back roads I travel so now use 90watters and they > are fine. Did you also upgrade the standard woeful Toyota wiring to the headlights?
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Scotty - 06 Oct 2006 08:45 GMT >> Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner >> to 130 watt globes, and that made a big difference - but they didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Did you also upgrade the standard woeful Toyota wiring to the > headlights? thats an essential upgrade. I did mine the first week I got it. Big difference esp when you add the 90/135 lamps.
\Bushy - 06 Oct 2006 23:03 GMT > >> Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner > >> to 130 watt globes, and that made a big difference - but they didn't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > thats an essential upgrade. I did mine the first week I got it. Big > difference esp when you add the 90/135 lamps. Unfortunately your talking about halogen bulbs, ie, those common everyday bulbs from ya 3 volt eveready torch to your 130 watt spottie bulbs to ya ARB fatboy 180 watt bulbs, to ya 1500 watt halogen 240 volt spot light bulbs sitting in ya local football grand stand.
HID bulbs are technically way more advanced and has very little in common with filament technology. HID bulbs have no filament. Call them wireless! Filaments were invented by old mate Edason dude back in the early 1800's. HID's or metal halide were invented around the early 1900's. There is way less heat. Basically the same principle as the old carbon rod arc bulbs as used in movie theatres back in the 1920's. Also called Metal Halide. A high voltage is applied to two rods within a gas and the result is more light per bit of energy used, as compared to wire filaments. "High voltage" is classified as upwards of anywhere between 15,000 to 25,000 volts. Upon the arc being created, the voltage is then dropped to around the tyical 75 to 90 volts to keep the arc in place. Think of 'welding' brightness, but instead of 3 volts at 120 amps, these bulbs run at around 90 volts and 0.5 to 1 amp.
In simple terms, one single 35 watt HID bulb is around three times as bright (in lumens) as a typical 100 watt bulb. Hence why Hella Predator lights cost $1500.00 each. Lightforce 240 HID cost around $1150.00 each.
So a 50 watt HID is around 4 to 5 times as bright as a typical 100 watt bulb. Draws around 4 amps. Instead of the typical 8 for a 100 watt and 10 amps for a 130 watt bulb.
The difference between a 100 watt halogen bulb and a 130 watt bulb is really bugger all, except a lot more heat is generated. Your better off running more lights with 55 watt halogen bulbs than going with a 130 watt. Or going to 24 volt globes.
Anyway, Anything over 60 watts within vehicle headlights are illegal, as per current ADR 13 rules. Auxiallary spot lights that are wired correctly are 'anything goes'.
Regardless of what other peeps think about HID's, they are indeed the way of the future for vehicle headlights. Euro cars are now being imported into this country with HID's, with the fancy anti-dazzle stuff. Personally I reckon that within five years, all new vehicles being sold on the market will either have HID's or LED's as their headlights. Australian ADR's will change to allow such vehicles into the country.
And yep, granted, my coupla vids are pretty crap. No digi camera will ever do justice to colours at night. People reading this should know that. But the difference between, say, a pair of standard 100 watt Lightforce XGT's (around 16 to 18 amps of current being drawn) and that of a pair of modified XGT's with HID bulbs (current draw of around 7 amps) is like that of a AA battery powered bulb torch to a 6 volt dolphin torch. (if you dont get the drift, the difference is bloody huge)
HID kits are coming down in price. There is an OEM Hella HID KIT on ebay now for $150.00. For the price of that, and what you get (brightness, longer life, awesome light output), halogen bulbs are ancient history. And for those that will still reply to me and bag me out, other than 'have fun', ya's quite obviously have not driven at night with such light, otherwise ya'd be all for it. Or maybe ya's do have them and ya's just think it is hell fun to bag me out, make yaselves think that ya look awesome to others who read this, and ya ego goes thru the roof. Either way go for it and have ya fun.
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 06 Oct 2006 23:52 GMT LMAO way ta go bushy :) HID's rool
> Unfortunately your talking about halogen bulbs, ie, those common > everyday bulbs from ya 3 volt eveready torch to your 130 watt spottie [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > ya look awesome to others who read this, and ya ego goes thru the roof. > Either way go for it and have ya fun. Scotty - 06 Oct 2006 23:58 GMT (snipped)
> The difference between a 100 watt halogen bulb and a 130 watt bulb is > really bugger all, except a lot more heat is generated. Your better off > running more lights with 55 watt halogen bulbs than going with a 130 > watt. >Or going to 24 volt globes. Hows that gunna help in a 12Volt system? Halving the voltage = half the output. P=V2/R (HMmm, I think thats right.........or is that AC with an impedance load.......... Im doubting myself on that one now, Im sure someone will confirm or correct me. )
Blue Heeler - 07 Oct 2006 00:01 GMT Bushy wrote:
> Basically the same principle as the > old carbon rod arc bulbs as used in movie theatres back in the > 1920's. When I worked as a projectionist in the mid 70s most places still used carbon arc lights. One place (a drive-in) I worked had bulbs I recall the price was breathtaking and that the owner just about burst into tears every time one blew.
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 03:39 GMT and that price was ??
> When I worked as a projectionist in the mid 70s most places still used > carbon arc lights. One place (a drive-in) I worked had bulbs I recall > the price was breathtaking and that the owner just about burst into > tears every time one blew. Logan_5 - 07 Oct 2006 03:49 GMT > and that price was ?? C'mon, 30 years ago and I didn't buy them, just used them. I suppose a comparison would be that they outlasted a few boxes of arc rods so they must have been more economical in the long term.....
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Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 08:08 GMT was i talking to you ??????? NO !
> C'mon, 30 years ago and I didn't buy them, just used them. I suppose a > comparison would be that they outlasted a few boxes of arc rods so they > must have been more economical in the long term..... Blue Heeler - 07 Oct 2006 08:09 GMT > was i talking to you ??????? > NO ! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > -- You want a private conversation - take it to email.
In the meantime - get knotted.
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Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 08:32 GMT Excuse me, i was refering to Blue Heeler originaly, the i get a reply post from some clown called Logan_5 My comment about who rattled your sh.t tin was directed at Logan_5 and then you reply back in his defense If i didnt know better id say your his twin Am i correct ????
>> was i talking to you ??????? >> NO ! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > In the meantime - get knotted. Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 03:39 GMT spent many an enjoyable evening in the company of fine female companionship or more to the point the back rows a part of history that will never come back :(
> When I worked as a projectionist in the mid 70s most places still used > carbon arc lights. One place (a drive-in) I worked had bulbs I recall > the price was breathtaking and that the owner just about burst into > tears every time one blew. Logan_5 - 07 Oct 2006 03:51 GMT > spent many an enjoyable evening in the company of fine female > companionship or more to the point the back rows > a part of history that will never come back :( Ah! The memories. Rows of panelvans all parked the "wrong" way, and all gently bouncing up and down on the rear springs........
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Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 08:09 GMT whats this "gently" bit ?
> Ah! The memories. Rows of panelvans all parked the "wrong" way, and all > gently bouncing up and down on the rear springs........ Blue Heeler - 07 Oct 2006 08:08 GMT > whats this "gently" bit ? > > > Ah! The memories. Rows of panelvans all parked the "wrong" way, and > > all gently bouncing up and down on the rear springs........ > > > > -- Well I had good shockies fitted......
You?
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Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 07 Oct 2006 08:33 GMT Mine were and are Koni's Thanx
> Well I had good shockies fitted...... > > You? Blue Heeler - 07 Oct 2006 09:28 GMT > Mine were and are Koni's Thanx > > > Well I had good shockies fitted...... > > > > You?
There you go.
Mine were Selbys, a brand that has disappeared into the mists of time. They were significant in being the first gas filled and coil over shockies that were available "retail".
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quietguy - 07 Oct 2006 12:20 GMT Of course - I added relays for the headlights and the Super Oscar driving lights, and ran heavier cable for both - that thin stuff fitted as standard has to be a joke I reckon
David
> > Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner > > to 130 watt globes, and that made a big difference - but they didn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- Blue Heeler - 07 Oct 2006 12:41 GMT > > Did you also upgrade the standard woeful Toyota wiring to the > > headlights?
> Of course - I added relays for the headlights and the Super Oscar > driving lights, and ran heavier cable for both - that thin stuff > fitted as standard has to be a joke I reckon Yep. When I first got my Toyota I was astounded at the poor quality of the headlight wiring. I reckon it is inadequate for the stock wattage, never mind an upgrade.
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Kev - 06 Oct 2006 05:57 GMT > Bushy wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > David The HID lights only draw the same amount of power as 30 or 50 watt lights but they emit a brighter/whiter light which is equivilent to your 130 watt lights
ARB also sell bulbs that are equivilent to 130watts but only draw 80watts
I think it has to do with the spectrum of light they emit
Kev
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 06 Oct 2006 08:27 GMT correction kevvy,.............. they are brighter/whiter lights and they are NOT the same as his 130w lamps they entirely different and out shine anything in their field
> The HID lights only draw the same amount of power as 30 or 50 watt lights > but they emit a brighter/whiter light which is equivilent to your 130 watt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kev Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 06 Oct 2006 08:27 GMT HID's will melt bitumen at 500yards well, mine will
> The HID lights only draw the same amount of power as 30 or 50 watt lights > but they emit a brighter/whiter light which is equivilent to your 130 watt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kev Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 06 Oct 2006 08:21 GMT unless you read the post correctly and view the links then you have no idea what this post is all about
> Just 50 watts? Wouldn't be worth it, would it? I upped my 4 runner to > 130 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > David quietguy - 07 Oct 2006 12:31 GMT > So are these Xenon globes a plug in replacement for the standard globes? Or > do you have to have a high voltage generator to run them? Any reviews? Length of life tests? (by independents like choice or NRMA etc)
My old eyes like bright at night so am interested in checking these out
David
Emjaye - 07 Nov 2006 08:03 GMT \Bushy said....
> For those who prefer to know the legalities on HID's, ADR-77 is 55 > pages of technical crud. To put HID bulbs into your headlights, they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The glass must be completely clear and not 'rippled' or whatever the > term is. So, how would I go upgrading my Mazda Tribute's headlights? Or am I better off with driving lights?
It has those low lying "fog lights", which like any such lights, are next to useless and only add to the w.nker factor when run during daylight hours.
\Bushy - 09 Nov 2006 22:22 GMT > So, how would I go upgrading my Mazda Tribute's headlights? Or am I > better off with driving lights? Guess it depends on if (1) your Tributes headlights are designed for HID inserts or not and (2) if they aren't, if your prepared to have HID's and knowingly be illegal, and (3), if your in the country or not.
If I were you, I'd do both. Do me headlights and have a set of thumpers with HID's in them. But thaz only me. What to do: undo your current halogen bulbs and see what it is. Or go looking in your manual. Jump on to ebay or some on-line shop or ask me to get a kit in for your bulb type --- be it a H4 or H7, H9 or H13 whatever they use. Then when you get the kit, pull the old bulbs out, bolt/tie on the ballasts, insert the HID bulbs, connect the wires and away ya go. Gotta decide if ya then want 35watt per bulb (ebay), 45 watts per bulb (my kits) or 50 watts per bulb (likes of Bit Distribution)
> next to useless and only add to the w.nker factor Heck, I can do that running four HID-modified XGT's on my roof. Ha ha.
Kev - 10 Nov 2006 02:11 GMT Bushy wrote:
>>So, how would I go upgrading my Mazda Tribute's headlights? Or am I >>better off with driving lights? > > Guess it depends on if (1) your Tributes headlights are designed for > HID inserts or not and (2) if they aren't, if your prepared to have > HID's and knowingly be illegal, and Be prepared to cop high beams from every second oncoming vehicle because they are not designed to have HIDs and are blinding everyone
Kev
\Bushy - 12 Nov 2006 19:00 GMT > Be prepared to cop high beams from every second oncoming vehicle because > they are not designed to have HIDs and are blinding everyone Tis called headlight aim. Or headlight re-adjustment. I thought it was pretty obvious, but apparetly I'm wrong.
Kev - 13 Nov 2006 02:00 GMT Bushy wrote:
>>Be prepared to cop high beams from every second oncoming vehicle because >>they are not designed to have HIDs and are blinding everyone > > Tis called headlight aim. Or headlight re-adjustment. I thought it was > pretty obvious, but apparetly I'm wrong. Of course and most people have it right but there are still many who have it wrong, you see them all the time with the lights aimed high(one or both) because of many reasons
why they put up with the constant highbeaming from other drivers is a mystery to me
now the normal 50w low beams are bad enough but the higher output and HID lights are just dangerous
I'm sure everyone here has their lights adjusted properly and re-adjusts them when loaded right
Kev
Emjaye - 14 Nov 2006 12:19 GMT \Bushy said....
>> So, how would I go upgrading my Mazda Tribute's headlights? Or am I >> better off with driving lights?
> Guess it depends on if (1) your Tributes headlights are designed for > HID inserts or not and (2) if they aren't, if your prepared to have > HID's and knowingly be illegal, and (3), if your in the country or not. 1. Dunno. Each headlight has a single H4 globe. Can't tell if the reflector is plastic based or not.
2. Why would they be illegal? Is it a state by state thing, If so, I'm in Victoria (see 3)
3. I live 3 hrs east of MEL. All of my commuting is along unlit country roads.
> Gotta decide if ya then want 35watt per bulb (ebay), 45 watts per bulb > (my kits) or 50 watts per bulb (likes of Bit Distribution) What are the above wattages like compared to say orginals and to each other? ie. is there much of a difference from 35w to 45w or from 35w to 50w?
When I inserted a pair of Narva Plus 50 H7s into my motorbike's headlight I could not tell the difference. When I removed the 55/55w H4 from the headlight of another bike and installed a 90w/55w H4 it made a little bit of a difference, but not twice the light.
If a HID kit costs say $300, I suppose that it's a bit much to expect 30 times the light from a standard $10 H4 globe?
Sir Lex - 27 Sep 2006 05:54 GMT > Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties > better? I'm guessing you mean the xenon blue halogen lights and not HID's?
Steer clear of them. As soon as you're out on a country road at night in the rain you'll be kicking yourself for buying them. I know from personal experience.
Have a read. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/blue.html
Brighter normal coloured bulbs, such as the Bosch plus 30's and 60's, and the narva plus 50's aren't a bad upgrade. They're nowhere near as good as a set of spotties though.
If your headlights are made of glass, with metal lenses, then higher wattage bulbs will be worth considering. They're cheaper than the plus 30's, 50's and 60's available, and are much brighter. Though technically illegal in a a vehicle with a 12 volt electrical system.
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Kev - 28 Sep 2006 12:37 GMT >> Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties >> better? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > 30's, 50's and 60's available, and are much brighter. Though > technically illegal in a a vehicle with a 12 volt electrical system. also a light wiring harness upgrade can do wonders, and is preferable if you upgrade to higher wattage bulbs
Kev
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 28 Sep 2006 14:12 GMT higher wattage lamps to are "illegal"
hth
> also a light wiring harness upgrade can do wonders, and is preferable if > you upgrade to higher wattage bulbs > > Kev Emjaye - 07 Nov 2006 08:06 GMT Sir said....
> Brighter normal coloured bulbs, such as the Bosch plus 30's and 60's, > and the narva plus 50's aren't a bad upgrade. They're nowhere near as > good as a set of spotties though. I upgraded my motorcycle's headlight to Narva Plus 50s. I couldn't see any difference between them and the standard H7s that they replaced. And within a month, both of them (high and low beam) blew on me on my way home from work. Luckily when the high beam blew I was about 200m from home. It's a scary feeling travelling at 100 km/h on a country road when suddenly all goes black...
Kev - 28 Sep 2006 12:28 GMT > Are the blue xenon replacement bulbs worth getting or fitting spotties > better? Blue lights are sh.t when out of town I had a set once(also had the same colour bulbs in the spots lights) and found I could hardly see anything off the sides of the road, anything white lights up well though but anything green, brown or dark coloured is almost hidden
get a good set of spot lights with white lights
Kev
Figjam (AKA Biggus Dickus) - 28 Sep 2006 14:12 GMT IAWK
> Blue lights are sh.t when out of town > I had a set once(also had the same colour bulbs in the spots lights) and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kev
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