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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / 4x4 Cars (Australian group) / March 2004Prado starting hassles
I hope someone can give me some help here. Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. Lately it has been intermittently hard to start. It seemed like the battery - the original - had died, so replaced it. At first all was Ok. Now, it sometimes starts first go, other times there's just a 'click'. I keep turning the key and after maybe four or five goes, it starts. Then for a few days it is fine, other days every time I try to start it, it does the click. Some days, it starts first go, then next time I start it during the day, the 'click' begins. It does always start eventually. Other days it starts first time, every time. The mechanic thinks its something in the starter motor, and says its a full days work to go over it. Or it may be a loose connection .... . He also says that its at the stage where if something fails, it will be expensive and we should look at changing it for a newer model. TIA Judy it sounds like the starter motor to me which is around 300 - 400 fitted from an auto elec And you should be looking at replacing the car not for another ten years yet your mechanic is full of it > I hope someone can give me some help here. > Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. > Lately it has been intermittently hard to start. It seemed like the > battery - the original - had died, so replaced it. At first all was Ok. Now, > it sometimes starts first go, other times there's just a 'click'. I keep I've heard similar sounds when a battery is dead or the connections to the battery are corroded. If your battery is new, it's terminals have probably already been cleaned if they were corroded. It may be a circuit problem too because the click sounds like a relay kicking in but perhaps the circuit it frayed/broken somewhere such that it's getting a discontiguous current? A decent auto-electrician would be able to sus it out pretty quickly. I agree with the other responder, 110K km is only just run in. But problems with electrics can happen at any time due to other reasons eg I had a tow bar installed by Gregory's Ford in Braddon, Canberra on a Fairmont Wagon and a couple of years later, I experienced a problem where my indicator fuse kept blowing. Upon taking it to an auto-electrician, they told me the problem was the wiring for the tow bar connection had been run along close to the exhaust pipe such that it deteriorated quickly from heat damage - how stupid was that Gregory's Ford?? They re-wired it well away from the exhaust and all works perfectly now. >I hope someone can give me some help here. >Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >TIA >Judy I know that the car is different, but we had a 86 model Corona, that also had what seems like the same problem. From memory, it turned out that it was a relay switch and ended up costing around $30 ~ $40. Get an auto electrician to test these things. HTH > I hope someone can give me some help here. > Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > .... . He also says that its at the stage where if something fails, it will > be expensive and we should look at changing it for a newer model. Sounds like the first thing to do is replace the mechanic. Your problem sound like a faulty starter relay or a bad electrical connection, take it to an auto electrician. Daryl Sounds like a high resistance (dirty) on one of the terminations of the heavy wiring between the battery and starter motor. Frank ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, : I hope someone can give me some help here. : Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : TIA : Judy There are some great mechanics around. One or two are even in this group (grovel grovel) Unfortunately yours doesnt sound like one. Take the groups advice and zap it to a decent auto electrician. > I hope someone can give me some help here. > Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > TIA > Judy So Judy I guess what all these people are saying is "Take it to an Auto Electrician, and stay away from that mechanic" a starter problem doesnt take a full day the Auto elecs should have it fixed within 2 hours Kev > I hope someone can give me some help here. > Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > TIA > Judy Your prob is that the pull in contacts in the starter are worn away. Need to remove and dismantle the starter and replace there contacts. Typically the contacts alone cost aprox $15 retail. You would be looking at aprox 1.5-2 hours labour. Defiantly no need to replace the Parado. If you need any info reply here. yes im a Toyota tech :) > I hope someone can give me some help here. > Our Prado is a 98 model, 110,000kms. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > TIA > Judy > Your prob is that the pull in contacts in the starter are worn away. > Need to remove and dismantle the starter and replace there contacts. > Typically the contacts alone cost aprox $15 retail. You would be > looking at aprox 1.5-2 hours labour. Defiantly no need to replace the > Parado. If you need any info reply here. yes im a Toyota tech :) Think you might be going a bit far saying they are worn away, I reckon it could be no more than a gut load of mud got in there. But I do agree with what has become the dominant central theme. 1/. Lose the current mechanic 2/. Take it to a Auto electrician 3/. Unless you really want a new one, keep the car. Tony Smith Common as Tony, Have seen a sh.t load of the semi circular contacts under the pull in worn to aprox .8mm where they are aprox 5mm thick when new. Starts giving an occasional click and no crank when starting and gradually gets worse to the point the suckers can't pass enough current to crank at all. next one I overhaul ill snap some pix and post em to my webspace to give you a look. > > Your prob is that the pull in contacts in the starter are worn away. > > Need to remove and dismantle the starter and replace there contacts. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tony Smith > Common as Tony, Have seen a sh.t load of the semi circular contacts > under the pull in worn to aprox .8mm where they are aprox 5mm thick > when new. Starts giving an occasional click and no crank when > starting and gradually gets worse to the point the suckers can't pass > enough current to crank at all. next one I overhaul ill snap some pix > and post em to my webspace to give you a look. Bugger! They don't make them like they used to do they..... Had to put new brushes in the Kombi starter last week. Big old Bosch "self supporting" type for auto VW. Wish they could have lasted to June next year, then it would have been 30 years old..... Tony Smith "self supporting" type for auto VW." Tony is that VW an auto or did I miss something ? And now to show my complete ignorance, is their a difference in starter motors /generators between manual and auto ? Or is it "auto" as in automobile ? > > Common as Tony, Have seen a sh.t load of the semi circular contacts > > under the pull in worn to aprox .8mm where they are aprox 5mm thick [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Tony Smith > "self supporting" type for auto VW." Tony is that VW an auto or did I > miss something ? And now to show my complete ignorance, is their a > difference in starter motors /generators between manual and auto ? > Or is it "auto" as in automobile ? Big difference in VW starters between manual and automatic versions and between the Type II&III engines and the type IV engines. In each case, the auto version is a behemoth of a thing, as befits a device upon which you are totally dependent, much bigger than the starter motors fitted to any other manual model. The 1800&2000 type IV Auto starters are simply HUGE, whereas the Type 1(beetle) and type III (Variant) autos are just BIG. you can fit the older auto starters to the 1800/2000 type IV engine, but they make heavy work of them. And yes, my Subaru powered Kombi is an automatic. It is the original 3 speed auto-union box fitted to VW and Audi vehicles for years and years. It has had one rebuild and has done 525,000km. The "self supporting" part on the starter motor comes about because there is no starter pinion shaft support in the automatic bell-housing, so the start pinion is completely over-hung, the shaft, bearings and consequently the starter motor housing itself are massive to reflect this. Back in my evil "make VWs go fast" days, the auto starter was a prized thing indeed because of its ability to talk sense to a 2.2lt 14:1 compression "monster" engine and spin it fast enough to get a start. The "stick shift" semi-auto or pre-selecting type boxes have the same starter as the manuals. The only thing worth having from a stick-shift is the double sided oil pump, you use the side previously used to pressurize the clutch actuation cylinder as the scavenge pump for a dry-sumped beetle engine..... Tony Smith > > "self supporting" type for auto VW." Tony is that VW an auto or did > > I miss something ? And now to show my complete ignorance, is their a > > difference in starter motors /generators between manual and auto ? > > Or is it "auto" as in automobile ? Jim. Sorry I forgot the other half of your question. Type IIIs (variants) always have generators Type II (Kombi) with older "upright" engine have generators Type II (Kombi) with type IV engine always have alternator Type I (beetle) All Type Is sold in Australia had a generator, but late type Is in other parts of th eworld had an alternator. Because these are both desirable and cheaper than a rebuilt generator, many of the Beetles and Kombis (upright engine versions) still running around here now have alternators. Are you now any less confused? Tony Smith |
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