So they are saying that you need to drive your vehicle according to
its capabilties and the road conditions.
What a revelation !
>I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
>prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Rob
> I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
> prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rob
Read somewhere that in several US states they have to have a sticker on them
by law which says "drive me like a Ferrari and I fall over"
Rollovers are one of the most common causes of deaths in 4wds single vehicle
accidents. Hence the insurance companies reluctance to cover anyone with
modded suspension.
Personally I can't understand how anyone can drive a 4wd without being aware
of its different handling characteristics compared to say a car.
Cheers
Jim
OK so I bought a Landcruiser
had it lifted a bit
now there is a risk of me being killed if I have a single vehicle crash
and roll over
so if I do get killed
can I sue Toyota for not telling me that a Landcruiser has a higher
centre of gravity(centre of mass for the pedantic)
and the company I asked to supply and fit the suspension, they also
never told me anything like that
Arn't these study figures fantastic
here's a question
what is the risk of me being killed if the airliner I am on crashes?
what is the risk of me being killed if the landcruiser I am driving
chrashes?
what is the risk of me being killed if the fuel tanker I am driving
crashes?
should I even be able to get life insurance?
Kev
> I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
> prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Rob
Barnsey - 26 Nov 2004 09:53 GMT
> should I even be able to get life insurance?
>
> Kev
Good point!
Getting life insurance you get asked questions such as do you hang glide,
ride a motor cycle, jump out of planes, rock climb.................self
mutilate to stop the voices.........(no you dont)
Has anyone had their premiums increased for owning a 4wd?
-=ubern00b=- - 26 Nov 2004 12:27 GMT
>Arn't these study figures fantastic
>here's a question
>what is the risk of me being killed if the airliner I am on crashes?
Extremely high, but the counter point to that is that it's exceedingly
rare for a commercial airliner to actually crash. It's so rare in
fact that statistically you're more likely to be killed by a donky (I
kid you not!)
>what is the risk of me being killed if the landcruiser I am driving
>chrashes?
Depends what the crash consists of. If you run into a small car then
you might not even notice it's happened until you get home and see the
wreckage still attached. However if you collide with an immovable
object (telegraph pole, large tree, concrete wall, etc) the chance of
death is actually higher than in a car, which would be capable of
absorbing more of the energy before it reached the occupants.
>what is the risk of me being killed if the fuel tanker I am driving
>crashes?
Don't know about this one. I suppose it's a good thing that most
crashes happen in a forward direction, because it's the cab hitting
whatever it is, not the tanker trailer!
Bristan - 27 Nov 2004 01:07 GMT
> OK so I bought a Landcruiser
> had it lifted a bit
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> and the company I asked to supply and fit the suspension, they also
> never told me anything like that
I doubt if you could sue Toyota ;.....because in the front of the current
Toyota lc100 owner's manual there is a lengthy warning stating there is a
significantly higher rollover rate, it will handle and maneuver differently
to an ord passenger car, has a higher centre of gravity .....etc. etc plus
off road driving warnings as well.,further into the man.
Roy Wilke - 27 Nov 2004 15:51 GMT
(snip)
> Arn't these study figures fantastic
> here's a question
> what is the risk of me being killed if the airliner I am on crashes?
If you were riding *on* and not *in* the airliner, you'd be dead before
it even reached flying speed. ;)
Jim - 17 Mar 2005 07:52 GMT
Just watched a TV program where the captain of a jet was half blown out of
the cockpit at 11000 feet. Much to everyones amazement he survived !!
Cheers
Jim
> (snip)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> If you were riding *on* and not *in* the airliner, you'd be dead before
> it even reached flying speed. ;)
Kev - 17 Mar 2005 09:18 GMT
that the one where they crashed with a light plane and the captain was
sucked out the windscreen and held there by another cabin crew until
they got low enough that he could be dragged back in?
Kev
> Just watched a TV program where the captain of a jet was half blown out of
> the cockpit at 11000 feet. Much to everyones amazement he survived !!
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > If you were riding *on* and not *in* the airliner, you'd be dead before
> > it even reached flying speed. ;)
Rob2 - 18 Mar 2005 01:36 GMT
> that the one where they crashed with a light plane and the captain was
> sucked out the windscreen and held there by another cabin crew until
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> of
>> the cockpit at 11000 feet. Much to everyones amazement he survived !!
Didn't see the program, but I assume that's the incident in the UK where the
windscreen blew out because the wrong size screws had been used.
Here's the report by the AAIB:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/sites/aaib/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_502702.pdf
A very lucky man.
Jim - 28 Mar 2005 09:31 GMT
Yes, thats the one. Amazing, and he went back to flying 6 months later. But
the co pilot didn't, he'd had enough. I'm with him :)
Cheers
Jim
> > that the one where they crashed with a light plane and the captain was
> > sucked out the windscreen and held there by another cabin crew until
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> windscreen blew out because the wrong size screws had been used.
> Here's the report by the AAIB:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/sites/aaib/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_502702.
pdf
> A very lucky man.
I've gotta say it cracks me up when people describe 4WDs as "unsafe"!
As if a 1700kg Commodore or Falcon is "safe" because it's 2WD and
closer to the ground!
(I drive a Discovery, which is actually LIGHTER than a Commodore-based
Adventra AWD!)
The simple fact is that every moving vehicle is dangerous and capable
of killing its occupants as well as people around it.
Accordingly whether you drive a 40 Series LandCruiser (sh.t handling,
sh.t brakes, low horsepower) or a Skyline GT-R (incredible handling,
braking and performance) you have to stick within the limits of the
vehicle, your environment and yourself.
Exceed any of these three and the only thing keeping you in one piece
is good luck.
BW.
>I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
>prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Rob
Kevcat - 28 Nov 2004 03:20 GMT
> I've gotta say it cracks me up when people describe 4WDs as "unsafe"!
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> BW.
this is very true and is agreed by most if not all drivers who are
sensible
the problem is that people have been bought up to NOT take responsibilty
for their own actions and this is re-enforced by the court system that
rewards people for their own stupidity and/or carelessness
all this "4WDs are killers in a rollover" was also touted back in the
early 90s when people movers became very popular
the manufacturers just converted their old work vans with seats, sales
of these eventually slowed because they became unfasionable, though the
manufacturers did make them better, just as they are doing now, look at
the likes of the new Pajero, much less likely to roll compared to the
1990 model, as are most new 4WDs
as for these "groups" calling for "special 4WD licences"
I can see what will happen there, and it is already happening, and that
is 2WDs that look like 4WDs, ala Ford Territory and Sangyong Musso, in
the US you can even buy a 2WD Toyota 4Runner and I suspect many more
varieties(I saw a pic of a 4Runner sitting atop a petrol bowser, it was
2WD, no xfer or front diff)
Kev
Rocatanski - 28 Nov 2004 07:33 GMT
sh.t I've been told any car I get behind the wheel of is dangerous.
> > I've gotta say it cracks me up when people describe 4WDs as "unsafe"!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Kev
Mike Harding - 29 Nov 2004 05:13 GMT
>sh.t I've been told any car I get behind the wheel of is dangerous.
No. It's only 4WDs. All the others are OK.
Mike Harding
>I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
>prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Thank goodness for the NRMA and the NSWRTA for carrying out this study.
>Money well spent I say.
It's worse than that!
If we take these revelations and project them along a
straight line consider what we might discover if a similar
study were done on vans and trucks! I have a sneaking
suspicion large semi-trailers (especially the box type)
may be even _more_ prone to falling over than 4WDs.
I think the only thing to do is immediately legislate to
stop the use of all vehicles larger than a Mini until a
through study has been done and we cal eliminate all
risk for all drivers. Nothing less is acceptable in a
caring society! After all "if it saves just one life" it's
worth it! Isn't it...?
Mike Harding
Rob2 - 26 Nov 2004 01:38 GMT
"Mike Harding" <mike_harding@nixspam.fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> It's worse than that!
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> caring society! After all "if it saves just one life" it's
> worth it! Isn't it...?
Ah but their study also revealed the earth shattering revelation that people
in small cars such as the Ford Festiva and Mazda 121 are more likely to be
injured in an accident than people in larger cars. Who would have thought
eh?
So I assume Minis are out too. The only solution I can see is Volvos for
everyone. (obviously without bullbars of course)
Rob
Mike Harding - 26 Nov 2004 21:56 GMT
>Ah but their study also revealed the earth shattering revelation that people
>in small cars such as the Ford Festiva and Mazda 121 are more likely to be
>injured in an accident than people in larger cars. Who would have thought
>eh?
Damn me! So the little cars with steel thinner than a can
of beans are dangerous too!?
>So I assume Minis are out too. The only solution I can see is Volvos for
>everyone. (obviously without bullbars of course)
No. Sorry. Clearly the only solution is no motor vehicles
for anyone - except politicians of course, oh and the police,
errr and rich people, and probably a few other people who
know the right people to get a permit from - but _definitely_
no cars, of any sort, for the prolls. It's for their own good,
after all. We can't have people making decisions about
the types of risks they want to take with their own safety.
That's what governments are for - who else would look
after adults otherwise...?
Mike Harding
Mike Harding - 26 Nov 2004 22:13 GMT
>Ah but their study also revealed the earth shattering revelation that people
>in small cars such as the Ford Festiva and Mazda 121 are more likely to be
>injured in an accident than people in larger cars. Who would have thought
>eh?
Damn me! So the little cars with steel thinner than a can
of beans are dangerous too!?
>So I assume Minis are out too. The only solution I can see is Volvos for
>everyone. (obviously without bullbars of course)
No. Sorry. Clearly the only solution is no motor vehicles
for anyone - except politicians of course, oh and the police,
errr and rich people, and probably a few other people who
know the right people to get a permit from - but _definitely_
no cars, of any sort, for the prolls. It's for their own good,
after all. We can't have people making decisions about
the types of risks they want to take with their own safety.
That's what governments are for - who else would look
after adults otherwise...?
Mike Harding
Ben - 29 Nov 2004 20:40 GMT
>>I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
>>prone to roll over than a conventional passenger vehicle in a single-vehicle
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Mike Harding
I drive a '94 Pajero, but this article was interesting.
http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150
Ben.
> I just read a news report that says a study has revealed that 4WDs are more
> prone to
be more capable off road than their 2wd counterparts,
The study showed that the 4wd vehicle performed better in the following
conditions.
* Hill ascents in a soft or boggy surface
* Controlled descents in a soft or boggy surface
* Being able to get to holiday spots that Joe falcon and bob commodore
and their redneck family CAN'T get to.
* Able to teach the driver more about driving and his vehicle when in an
off road environment.
* The driver doesn't have to be in the bedroom to get dirty :)
This exhaustive study proved 4x4's perform better off road than their 2wd
counterparts.
Come on ACA pick THAT story up, lets go harass some commodore drivers in the
car park of the local shopping centre.