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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / April 2006Why is my steering lighter
after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more difficult to steer? > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it > more difficult to steer? Low rolling resistance tires ? -- Regards Dan > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it > more difficult to steer? You haven't got better grip yet. Wait for them to bed in. -- Knob "Knobdoodle" <knobdoodle@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Z8z4g.18355$vy1.13067@news- > You haven't got better grip yet. Wait for them to bed in. I'd be suprised if they were worse than the previous tyres. They came on the car when I bought it and the previous owner had the car in storage for a couple of years so they went pretty hard. The grip they had was pretty poor, especially in the wet. Michael Higher pressure in the new tyres? Crash Lander > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it > more difficult to steer? >after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more >difficult to steer? Deeper tread is squirming when you turn the wheel...makes it feel lighter. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. > Deeper tread is squirming when you turn the wheel...makes it feel > lighter. Exactly what I was going to say, possibly combined with a bit of extra pressure. -- Regards, Noddy. > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more > difficult to steer? Did you only get new tyres or was a wheel alignment done? Adam > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more > difficult to steer? Completely normal. Old tyres often have more grip on a dry road than new ones. Daryl >after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more >difficult to steer? It's got next to SFA to do with grip. It's mainly a steering geometry (wheel alignment) issue -- where the steering axis intersects the contact patch being the most important factor. The size of the contact patch being the other one. Consequently you can have light cars that are bloody heavy to steer and heavy trucks that aren't -- irrespective of steering gear ratios. Having said that... new tyres frequently result in lighter steering, presumably because the contact patch takes a while to establish itself precisely.  SignatureJohn H > >after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more > >difficult to steer? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > presumably because the contact patch takes a while to establish itself > precisely. I used to do my own alignment on the Valiants I owned,..take off some castor equaly till steering lightened up for easy parking, check steering wheel recentreing after cornering was equal both sides. Toe was easy,..adjust inwards till front starts to rise on a flat road, wind off till effect stopped plus a smidge more, camber adjust visually and by noting sidewall bulge. Finally check for correct tracking on highway (no run to kerb or wanders) if pulling to left, reduce castor driver's side slightly. The Vals used two upper-arm, inner cam-bolts. Made wheel aligning easy when you had full adjustment. Jason >> >after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it >more [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >The Vals used two upper-arm, inner cam-bolts. Made wheel aligning easy when >you had full adjustment. I probably should've mentioned that having the alignment to spec won't necessarily result in lighter steering, since some designs don't allow the steering axis to pass through the centre of the contact patch throughout the turn. Correct wheel alignment then becomes a compromise. McPherson struts are particularly bad in that regard (thankfully Vals never had 'em). It's also the reason why a lot of FWD's torque steer -- which doesn't seem to be widely understood... judging by the number of ridiculous explanations for torque steer I've had to endure. :) SignatureJohn H >I probably should've mentioned that having the alignment to spec won't >necessarily result in lighter steering, since some designs don't allow >the steering axis to pass through the centre of the contact patch >throughout the turn. Correct wheel alignment then becomes a >compromise. >McPherson struts are particularly bad in that regard (thankfully Vals >never had 'em). Depends who builds the struts and which way they point. Nobody complained about torque steer in a Type-113 Beetle. :-) >It's also the reason why a lot of FWD's torque steer -- which doesn't >seem to be widely understood... judging by the number of ridiculous >explanations for torque steer I've had to endure. :) Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. > It's also the reason why a lot of FWD's torque steer -- which doesn't > seem to be widely understood... judging by the number of ridiculous > explanations for torque steer I've had to endure. :) A few years ago Toyota made the claim that they virtually eliminated torque steer from the Corolla by making one (the longer) drive shaft the same weight as the shorter drive shaft. I have been very happy with this explanation until now. Has Toyota got a point? Regards Bill >> It's also the reason why a lot of FWD's torque steer -- which doesn't >> seem to be widely understood... judging by the number of ridiculous [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >with this explanation until now. >Has Toyota got a point? If they do have a point the reason completely escapes me. :) For the explanation to be credible they'd need to demonstrate what unequal forces due to the mass (or length) of the individual drive shafts could possibly act around the steering axes. Obviously the forces at the tyre contact patch do if they're not evenly distributed around each axis... which is by far the most plausible explanation for torque steer IMHO. SignatureJohn H >>after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it >>more [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > presumably because the contact patch takes a while to establish itself > precisely. I had a wheel alignment done and it was spot on. Drove it for a week or so and tried a mates wheel tyre combo (when I was younger with spare time to shag around with jacks wheel braces etc, cant be bothered these days thats for sure) and his rim offset was slightly different giving me a wider track, boy did the stering lighten up big time over what I had on there. He had much wider tyres as well. Whats the reason for that? Increased torque available in steering system with wider track? >"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to >>>making it more difficult to steer? >> It's got next to SFA to do with grip. >> It's mainly a steering geometry (wheel alignment) issue -- where the >> steering axis intersects the contact patch being the most important >> factor. The size of the contact patch being the other one. >> Consequently you can have light cars that are bloody heavy to steer >> and heavy trucks that aren't -- irrespective of steering gear ratios. >> Having said that... new tyres frequently result in lighter steering, >> presumably because the contact patch takes a while to establish itself >> precisely. >I had a wheel alignment done and it was spot on. Drove it for a >week or so and tried a mates wheel tyre combo (when I was younger [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Whats the reason for that? Increased torque available in steering >system with wider track? Clearance inside the wheel well and back to the steering & suspension components when approaching lock. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. > >>after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it > >>more [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > much wider tyres as well. Whats the reason for that? Increased torque > available in steering system with wider track? Any chance the tyres were taller overall (mid-low profile tyres can have higher sidewalls than 'stock' but narrower tyres, and the possibility of larger diameter wheels to start with might be involved) will alter the scrub radius. If it just wen't wider or further offset outwards with no change in height, it'd possibly do the opposite. Interesting thing and fun to check out - because sometimes wider and lower profile (in cases where the overall height is lower and the tyre is wider) can have some less than rewarding results. SignatureJohn McKenzie tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com fraudinfo@psinet.com sweep.day@accc.gov.au Beaker was a tweaker uce@ftc.gov admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost $USER@localhost $USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost root@mailloop.com president@whitehouse.gov vice.president@whitehouse.gov abuse@iprimus.com.au abuse@cia.gov abuse@fbi.gov abuse@asio.gov.au abuse@federalpolice.gov.au >>>after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it >>>more [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > much wider tyres as well. Whats the reason for that? Increased torque > available in steering system with wider track? Probably because the wheels rolled through the turn instead of just twisting in one spot Kev >>>>after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it >>>>more [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Kev Now that makes sense. Wonder why cars arnt made like that? It made my car handle a 100% better only issue was that it made it harder to get out of full lock for some reason. >>Probably because the wheels rolled through the turn instead of just >>twisting in one spot [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > handle a 100% better only issue was that it made it harder to get out of > full lock for some reason. Because it causes bump steer and other issues with control FWDs suffer the worst from it Kev > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more > difficult to steer? Only lasts for a short time. Mainly due to reduced footprint with road until the tread-blocks wear-in. The nice new pliable rubber treadblocks help too, until they start to wear or harden with age. Jason > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it > more difficult to steer? Did you have a wheel alignment at the same time your tyres where replaced? New tyres will usually feel better until they have settled in. Maybe the tyres you had were underinflated or a very square tyre. Many things will cause a different feel. > Did you have a wheel alignment at the same time your tyres where replaced? > New tyres will usually feel better until they have settled in. Maybe the > tyres you had were underinflated or a very square tyre. Many things will > cause a different feel. I did have an alignment, I forgot to mention that. The old tyres were inflated ok but where pretty hard and in pretty poor condition. The grip they had in the dry wasn't too good but absolutely shocking in the wet. I posted about a year ago how I got dragged off by a combi van in the wet, not good in a turbo rx7. :-) Michael >I did have an alignment, I forgot to mention that. I don't want to be rude...but I'm going to anyway. Why the f.ck did you even ask the question? Jesus, what a f.cking moron! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. > I don't want to be rude...but I'm going to anyway. > > Why the f.ck did you even ask the question? The reason I asked the question was I was pretty sure this was at least partially due to new tyres but didn't know why. > Jesus, what a f.cking moron! I'm not the one who drives a magna. Michael >> I don't want to be rude...but I'm going to anyway. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I'm not the one who drives a magna. Yeah, I heard, you drive a turboed RX7 that gets blown by Kombi vans. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. > Yeah, I heard, you drive a turboed RX7 that gets blown by Kombi vans. Not any more, I finally bought some new tyres. Michael > after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more > difficult to steer? They filled your boot with concrete. >> after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it >> more >> difficult to steer? > > They filled your boot with concrete. Feck, that's how they lowered the back ;-) Michael >after getting new tyres? Shouldn't the better grip equate to making it more >difficult to steer? I thought that also with the new Pirellis on my Astra (plus the pressure is a bit higher)..... |
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