Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / July 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

FA: Valve spring compresspr

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
jollyrodgers - 05 Jul 2006 14:37 GMT
Change your valve stem seals without removing the head /s.
Deluxe Over Head Valve Spring Compressor ABW-70511.
Works on most makes and models.
Not a cheap crappy tool.
only used for one home job.

Compressorhttp://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180004272805
jollyrodgers - 05 Jul 2006 14:41 GMT
> Change your valve stem seals without removing the head /s.
> Deluxe Over Head Valve Spring Compressor ABW-70511.
> Works on most makes and models.
> Not a cheap crappy tool.
> only used for one home job.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180004272805
mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au - 06 Jul 2006 12:56 GMT
> Not a cheap crappy tool.
> only used for one home job.

Now I don't know what this one is like, but I tried to use a rather
pricey Kinchrome unit on my holden v8 valve springs.  Result was
something sheared off in the tool and half of it went flying past my
head!!!

Needless to say, this is not the tool to use for heads that have very
strong springs.

But probably perfect for the odd jap engine etc.

I would seriously recommend removing the heads though as you can give
them a good rebuild at the same time.
a9x5l - 06 Jul 2006 22:47 GMT
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 04:56:57 -0700, mackeb wrote:

>> Not a cheap crappy tool.
>> only used for one home job.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> something sheared off in the tool and half of it went flying past my
> head!!!

I used the exact same brand as advertised on my 308 heads recently. I got
about 6 valves done before the f.cking thing split in half and I had to go
back for a second one. Of course the salesman said "We've never seen this
before!". My father has the same type(which is why I bought this one)
although it's a different brand and it's about 30+ years old and is still
like brand new. They don't make 'em like they used to :-(

> Needless to say, this is not the tool to use for heads that have very
> strong springs.

They can be a bit tricky to use on the standard Holden V8 springs because
they are so small, it works fine on a Chevy with big springs though.

> But probably perfect for the odd jap engine etc.
>
> I would seriously recommend removing the heads though as you can give
> them a good rebuild at the same time.

They're good for a quick and easy spring change. Sometimes you don't want,
or need, to remove the heads while doing this job.

Signature

a9x5l

mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au - 07 Jul 2006 11:50 GMT
> I used the exact same brand as advertised on my 308 heads recently. I got
> about 6 valves done before the f.cking thing split in half and I had to go
> back for a second one. Of course the salesman said "We've never seen this
> before!". My father has the same type(which is why I bought this one)
> although it's a different brand and it's about 30+ years old and is still
> like brand new. They don't make 'em like they used to :-(

Yeah, I just went and got a conventional compressor - works a treat!
(and it was half the price)

> They're good for a quick and easy spring change. Sometimes you don't want,
> or need, to remove the heads while doing this job.

Fair enough I s'pose but I'd always be left wondering what else is worn
etc...
jollyrodgers - 07 Jul 2006 20:09 GMT
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 04:56:57 -0700, mackeb wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> although it's a different brand and it's about 30+ years old and is still
> like brand new. They don't make 'em like they used to :-(

The first time I used it I just whacked it on without much care
and it seemed awkward and stiff to tension and was thinking
it wasn't much good.
I then had a think about it and looked at the tool then at the spring
Then the light came on, the tool has a long leg and a short leg for a reason
so it can clamp both sides of the spring evenly ya idiot, I said to myself.
Needless to say the rest of the job was a piece of piss.
I dare say if I hadn't made this earth shattering discovery I may
have damaged the tool eventually.

>> Needless to say, this is not the tool to use for heads that have very
>> strong springs.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> They're good for a quick and easy spring change. Sometimes you don't want,
> or need, to remove the heads while doing this job.
a9x5l - 07 Jul 2006 21:23 GMT
>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 04:56:57 -0700, mackeb wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I dare say if I hadn't made this earth shattering discovery I may
> have damaged the tool eventually.

If you don't place the tool correctly on a stock diameter Holden V8 spring
it's impossible to compress it sufficiently to remove the collets(it will
usually slip off the spring as soon as any tension is created anyway), and
yes, I'm well aware of it having a long and short leg and where to place
them. Unfortunately, my compressor was faulty and the salesman recognized
this and did not hesitate to replace it after inspection.

Signature

a9x5l

OzOne - 06 Jul 2006 22:58 GMT
>> Not a cheap crappy tool.
>> only used for one home job.
>>
>I would seriously recommend removing the heads though as you can give
>them a good rebuild at the same time.

For one damaged valve spring?

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Noddy - 07 Jul 2006 00:52 GMT
> For one damaged valve spring?

My thoughts too :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clockmeister - 07 Jul 2006 23:53 GMT
>>> Not a cheap crappy tool.
>>> only used for one home job.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> For one damaged valve spring?

Or a set of valve stem seals? That is insane, rebuilding cylinder heads on
mileage vehicles is something that should be avoided at all cost.
John_H - 06 Jul 2006 23:14 GMT
>Needless to say, this is not the tool to use for heads that have very
>strong springs.

You're judging something you obviously know SFA about.

I've used mine on all sorts of springs, including some very strong
ones, with no problems at all -- it's exactly the same as this one.

>But probably perfect for the odd jap engine etc.

Yep, does those as well.  Only things it doesn't particularly like are
two piece retainers (which are relatively rare)... they're sometimes
used with multiple spring setups.  Only reason it doesn't like them is
the lack of a flat surface near the edge of the retainers.  Most
conventional valve spring compressors don't like them either.

>I would seriously recommend removing the heads though as you can give
>them a good rebuild at the same time.

In the absence of any other means it also works fine when the head's
on the bench, though why you'd want to remove an otherwise sound head
to replace valve stem seals and various other bits completely escapes
me.  There's plenty of heads that'll see out two or more sets of valve
stem seals without requiring any other work.  Nor are broken or
collapsed valve springs a complete rarity.

Nor is removing and rebuilding a head from a high mileage engine
that's running tolerably OK a particularly good idea.  It can easily
end up costing a full engine rebuild on an engine that would've
otherwise been good for many thousands more k's.

Signature

John H

mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au - 07 Jul 2006 11:47 GMT
> You're judging something you obviously know SFA about.
>
> I've used mine on all sorts of springs, including some very strong
> ones, with no problems at all -- it's exactly the same as this one.

Hmmm.  Well, I'd prefer to keep my eye thank you (although I must admit
that I've never used this brand [the one for auction])

> >But probably perfect for the odd jap engine etc.

> Nor is removing and rebuilding a head from a high mileage engine
> that's running tolerably OK a particularly good idea.  It can easily
> end up costing a full engine rebuild on an engine that would've
> otherwise been good for many thousands more k's.

WTF?!?!

Elaborate please.  If you remove a head and require an engine rebuild,
then I'd seriously consider the techniques used or the quality of the
parts etc.  If you do require a rebuild then it's an obvious sign that
something is wrong.
You wont ever have an engine that'll last for many more thousands of
k's if it falls apart from removing a head.
Noddy - 07 Jul 2006 14:08 GMT
<mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message

> Elaborate please.  If you remove a head and require an engine rebuild,
> then I'd seriously consider the techniques used or the quality of the
> parts etc.  If you do require a rebuild then it's an obvious sign that
> something is wrong.

No it ain't.

I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a perfectly usable short
motor had it's life expectancy dramatically reduced thanks to a cylinder
head rebuild that was largely unnecceasry in the first place, and the reason
for that is mainly the slightly higher compression ratio you end up with
after a suface of the gasket face and the 100% sealing of the valve seats
places a load on the "used" short engine components that they can't stand
for very long.

99 times out of 100 very rapid ring wear will be the main side effect,
necessitating a re-ring at the very least.

If a cylinder head needs to come off a used engine (and by "used" I mean one
that's well worn in), the best thing you can do is fix only the problem that
required the head to be removed, and don't do anything else. In the majority
of cases, the engine will continue to run happily for ages.

> You wont ever have an engine that'll last for many more thousands of
> k's if it falls apart from removing a head.

Of course you will :)

Cab companies and other high mileage fleet owners do it all the time. They
have ultra high mileage engines that see in excess of three quarters of a
million kilometres on the original engine without doing anything major at
all, and only ever fix the immediate problem if a head needs to be removed,
such as for a blown head gasket for example.

They don't "reco" the head just because it's off, as they know the engine
was running perfectly fine as it was, and they probably also know that if
they reco the head they'll be needing a reco'd short to go with it before
too long.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au - 08 Jul 2006 13:31 GMT
> <mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message

> I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a perfectly usable short
> motor had it's life expectancy dramatically reduced thanks to a cylinder
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> places a load on the "used" short engine components that they can't stand
> for very long.

Jesus, this sounds extreme.  What sort of engines are we taking about
here??

I replaced the heads on the HJ 253 with another set - the old heads
were as you'd expect for around 500,000k's (having a guess here - the
bore is 060 over...).

Best thing I ever did to that motor - not only could I fix the previous
owners mistakes, but I cleaned all of the carbon off the piston crowns
etc.
The engine has so much more power you could be forgiven for thinking it
was reconditioned.  Pinging stopped and many of the perculiar noises
disappeared.  Fuel economy was also dramatically improved.

> 99 times out of 100 very rapid ring wear will be the main side effect,
> necessitating a re-ring at the very least.

> > You wont ever have an engine that'll last for many more thousands of
> > k's if it falls apart from removing a head.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> all, and only ever fix the immediate problem if a head needs to be removed,
> such as for a blown head gasket for example.

Yeah, fair enough I suppose.

> They don't "reco" the head just because it's off, as they know the engine
> was running perfectly fine as it was, and they probably also know that if
> they reco the head they'll be needing a reco'd short to go with it before
> too long.

Hmmm, seems like a false economy to me. Just my opinion though...
Noddy - 09 Jul 2006 04:26 GMT
<mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message

> Jesus, this sounds extreme.  What sort of engines are we taking about
> here??

Run of the mill everyday stuff.

No engine is amune to it that I'm awarte of.

> The engine has so much more power you could be forgiven for thinking it
> was reconditioned.  Pinging stopped and many of the perculiar noises
> disappeared.  Fuel economy was also dramatically improved.

How many kay's has it done since? :)

> Hmmm, seems like a false economy to me. Just my opinion though...

It might do, but it's really asking for trouble.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
John_H - 07 Jul 2006 22:19 GMT
>> Nor is removing and rebuilding a head from a high mileage engine
>> that's running tolerably OK a particularly good idea.  It can easily
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>parts etc.  If you do require a rebuild then it's an obvious sign that
>something is wrong.

Next time you're contemplating rebuilding the head on a high mileage
engine _please_ talk to a competent mechanic before you do... because
I don't know a single one that would recommend it.  Let alone one that
would actually do it.

>You wont ever have an engine that'll last for many more thousands of
>k's if it falls apart from removing a head.

Oh yes you will... on about nine occasions out of ten.  The increase
in cylinder pressure resulting from a valve job, or even the act of
de-coking, will kill an otherwise well bedded ring set quicker than
almost anything else you might subject them to.

No mechanic with half a brain would ever fall for that one... even to
the extent of replacing a failed head gasket without so much as
touching the valves (or the carbon deposits).

Signature

John H

jollyrodgers - 07 Jul 2006 19:52 GMT
>> Not a cheap crappy tool.
>> only used for one home job.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> But probably perfect for the odd jap engine etc.

Didn't have any probs on my Commodore V6
and the tool still looks like new.

> I would seriously recommend removing the heads though as you can give
> them a good rebuild at the same time.

Compression was fine in all pots didn't use any water or get hot.
Only symptom was smoke after idling and at high vacuum.
All pointed to stuffed valve stem seals.
Turned out to be correct only one bank though as it had
different brand seals on either side, One side had been done
or one head had been off, I replaced both though.
Smoke went away, oil usage stopped and it runs like a dream
and only took a leisurely 4 hours, a bit quicker than a top
end rebuild I think. ;-)
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.