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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / February 2007

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Commodore WCOTY

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R J Heath - 23 Jan 2007 11:48 GMT
Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
Dan--- - 23 Jan 2007 11:54 GMT
> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.

I think the SS looks sh.t hot.

Signature

Regards
Dan

D Walford - 24 Jan 2007 04:47 GMT
>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>
> I think the SS looks sh.t hot.

You asked for it so.....99% sh.t with a dab of heat:-)

Daryl
Dan--- - 24 Jan 2007 04:54 GMT
>>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>>
>> I think the SS looks sh.t hot.
>>
> You asked for it so.....99% sh.t with a dab of heat:-)

Please let me forget about that Mazda for f.ck sakes!
:-)

Signature

Regards
Dan

D Walford - 24 Jan 2007 09:19 GMT
>>>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>>> I think the SS looks sh.t hot.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Please let me forget about that Mazda for f.ck sakes!
> :-)

Never and I told you so:-)

Daryl
Dan--- - 24 Jan 2007 09:30 GMT
> Never and I told you so:-)

I'm gonna say this the nicest way as possible!

c.nt!

;-)

Signature

Regards
Dan

D Walford - 25 Jan 2007 06:36 GMT
>> Never and I told you so:-)
>
> I'm gonna say this the nicest way as possible!
>
> c.nt!

LOL.

Daryl
jackbadger56 - 23 Jan 2007 12:16 GMT
> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.

At first I thought you were talking 'World COTY'! duh!!

Looks like the GMH marketers have been busy too.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheels_Car_of_the_Year
Noddy - 23 Jan 2007 21:27 GMT
> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.

How will driving one make it better looking? :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
PHATRS - 23 Jan 2007 21:55 GMT
>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.

In the same way that i think my car is the most beautiful car in the
world ever since I took it for a test drive.

Signature

Ben - Wipe off 25

"My name is Korg from planet dyslexia, your arses are fruity, take me
to your dealer, or you will all be laminated, ." RV, melb.general

Noddy - 23 Jan 2007 22:53 GMT
> In the same way that i think my car is the most beautiful car in the world
> ever since I took it for a test drive.

I've got very bad news for you Ben... :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
joshberyl@gmail.com - 09 Feb 2007 01:47 GMT
> >> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> "My name is Korg from planet dyslexia, your arses are fruity, take me
> to your dealer, or you will all be laminated, ." RV, melb.general
Ron - 23 Jan 2007 23:16 GMT
>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a
>> drive.
>
> How will driving one make it better looking? :)

ROTFLMAO :-)
Oz - 24 Jan 2007 23:59 GMT
>> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Regards,
> Noddy.

Well for a start you will be on the inside looking out so therefore unable
to see how ugly it looks from the outside.
having said that, the Commode has grown on me, I still think its not a good
looking as all the other cars they stole design cues from, but still better
looking that the original EA Falcon was when it was first inflicted on us.

I would probably buy one if it was a choice between it and a 380 or an
Aurion

OT: I figured out Toyota marketing, first introduce an ugly, gutless 4 Cyl
car (Camry) then a few months later, introduce a much more powerful V6 with
a much improved, but only cosmetic change to the appearance (Aurion)

Oz
Neil Gerace - 03 Feb 2007 02:36 GMT
> Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.

Wonder how much the taxpayer (through Holden) paid for that award.
Marco - 03 Feb 2007 07:08 GMT
> > Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a drive.
>
> Wonder how much the taxpayer (through Holden) paid for that award.

Wonder how much the taxpayer would like it if car manufacturing
stopped in this country, with the corresponding effect on employment,
the balance of payments, and the skill base of this country?

Marco
Just JT - 03 Feb 2007 08:54 GMT
>> > Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a
>> > drive.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> stopped in this country, with the corresponding effect on employment,
> the balance of payments, and the skill base of this country?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it means I can afford a brand new Mercedes Benz S500 with a sticker price
of Au$100,000, I'd vote manufacturing OUT. Otherwise, it's status quo.

--
I.only.care.about.the.price.of.a.car.not.where.it's.made
Noddy - 03 Feb 2007 11:55 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c44d8d$0$10236

> I.only.care.about.the.price.of.a.car.not.where.it's.made

And yet you drive a riced up Camry....

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 03 Feb 2007 12:57 GMT
> "Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c44d8d$0$10236
>
>> I.only.care.about.the.price.of.a.car.not.where.it's.made
>
> And yet you drive a riced up Camry....

~~~~~~~~~~~
Except that the Camry is FWD.

Yep, it's a baby Lexus because that's all my money can afford. If our market
were not protected by a local car industry, the same money can buy more car.

--
Protectionism.sucks
Noddy - 03 Feb 2007 22:53 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c486a7$0$6687

> Except that the Camry is FWD.

And that makes a difference how exactly?

> Yep, it's a baby Lexus because that's all my money can afford. If our
> market were not protected by a local car industry, the same money can buy
> more car.

No offense, but I'm of the opinion that it's not the price that matters to
you, but the badge. For the price of your Lexus, you could have an SS
Commodore that would absolutely sh.t all over your car in every way
imaginable.

Still, it's a Holden, and you wouldn't want that.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 03 Feb 2007 23:23 GMT
> "Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c486a7$0$6687
>
>> Except that the Camry is FWD.
>
> And that makes a difference how exactly?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Make a big difference at high speed; i.e., no understeer, etc.

>> Yep, it's a baby Lexus because that's all my money can afford. If our
>> market were not protected by a local car industry, the same money can buy
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Still, it's a Holden, and you wouldn't want that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If Holden had a RWD medium-sized car with some luxury features, I'd
seriously consider it. I'm not in the market for a large car that's why the
VE Commodore isn't in my short list.

Badge? I have no brand loyalty. All my cars so far are different makes.

--
It.turns.out.the.Lexus.is.the.flavor.of.the.month.for.me
Noddy - 04 Feb 2007 08:59 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c5197f$0$6586

> If Holden had a RWD medium-sized car with some luxury features, I'd
> seriously consider it. I'm not in the market for a large car that's why
> the VE Commodore isn't in my short list.

The Calais V is certainly *not* a large car. That would be
Statesman/Fairlane.

> Badge? I have no brand loyalty. All my cars so far are different makes.

Suit yourself.

The little Lexus is a great car, but fairly expensive for what it is. I'd
take a Calais anyday thanks.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 04 Feb 2007 13:44 GMT
> The Calais V is certainly *not* a large car. That would be
> Statesman/Fairlane.
~~~~~~~~~
The whole Commodore series is still TOO BIG for my needs. I don't need that
size of a car.

> The little Lexus is a great car, but fairly expensive for what it is. I'd
> take a Calais anyday thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I were in the market for a Commodore, I'd get the entry-level Omega. The
Calais is just an overpriced Omega in my book.

--
I.buy.entry-level.only
Emjaye - 07 Feb 2007 13:03 GMT
Just said....

> If I were in the market for a Commodore, I'd get the entry-level Omega.
> The Calais is just an overpriced Omega in my book.

What do you think of HSVs, then?

I took a used Clubsport for a test drive a while ago. It had around
90,000km on the clock. Aside from its get up and go, it handled more or
less like my SS, probably braked a bit better, but had more wind noise,
rattles and an annoying vibration/rattle from the gear stick.

In other words, it was just like any other used Commodore, albeit with a
hefty premium for the HSV badges.
Just JT - 07 Feb 2007 13:27 GMT
> Just said....
>
>> If I were in the market for a Commodore, I'd get the entry-level Omega.
>> The Calais is just an overpriced Omega in my book.
>
> What do you think of HSVs, then?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My take on vehicles in general: the models above entry level are just
overpriced versions of the entry level.

--
Which.means.less.value.for.money
Noddy - 07 Feb 2007 20:04 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45c9d3bd$0$3953

> My take on vehicles in general: the models above entry level are just
> overpriced versions of the entry level.

So why did you buy a ridiculously over priced Lexus instead of a Camry?

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 08 Feb 2007 00:09 GMT
"Noddy" <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au> wrote:>

> So why did you buy a ridiculously over priced Lexus instead of a Camry?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Camry doesn't have:

- leather seats which are heated and cooled;
- 14-speaker premium stereo;
- Reverse-camera assist and SatNav;
- fuel economy to achieve 6.5 ltrs/100 km (36mpg) on freeway;
- high resale value.

The above features all available from an entry-level Baby Lexus.

--
And.a.Camry.is.FWD
Noddy - 08 Feb 2007 00:37 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45ca6a46$0$2958

> The Camry doesn't have:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> The above features all available from an entry-level Baby Lexus.

For the ridiculous price, they'd f.cking *want* to be...

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 08 Feb 2007 03:30 GMT
> "Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45ca6a46$0$2958
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> For the ridiculous price, they'd f.cking *want* to be...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Holden Calais V costs more than my baby Lexus but has none of the above.

--
Guess.which.one.is.overpriced
Noddy - 08 Feb 2007 03:47 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45ca9958$0$6374

> The Holden Calais V costs more than my baby Lexus but has none of the
> above.
>
> --
> Guess.which.one.is.overpriced

The "optioned" Camry.

Easily :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Diesel Damo - 08 Feb 2007 07:40 GMT
> - 14-speaker premium stereo;

LOL
Just JT - 08 Feb 2007 07:44 GMT
"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:.
>> - 14-speaker premium stereo;
>
> LOL

~~~~~~~~~~
An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
average....

--
I.have.an.ear.for.the.good.stuff
Diesel Damo - 08 Feb 2007 08:13 GMT
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
> average....
>
> --
> I.have.an.ear.for.the.good.stuff

Fair enough, and I'm the first to admit that my needs are simple, but
really - *14* speakers in a car? When driving (even with the windows
up) is there that much to be gained over, say, an 8 speaker system?

--
Damo
With a 2 speaker sound system with only 1 of them working.
Noddy - 08 Feb 2007 08:32 GMT
"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

> Fair enough, and I'm the first to admit that my needs are simple, but
> really - *14* speakers in a car? When driving (even with the windows
> up) is there that much to be gained over, say, an 8 speaker system?

I wouldn't think so :)

It's all a bit of a w.nk really, just like the ever increasing number of
ratio's in automatic transmissions. It seems the *main* criteria for having
a 7 speed auto is because your competitor only has 6.

The fact that it makes no f.cking difference to anything to the average Joe
is completely irrelevant  :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Diesel Damo - 08 Feb 2007 08:37 GMT
> It's all a bit of a w.nk really, just like the ever increasing number of
> ratio's in automatic transmissions. It seems the *main* criteria for having
> a 7 speed auto is because your competitor only has 6.

Definitely. And who is that manufacturer that has the 8 speed
auto? ... oh that's right, it's LEXUS :-)
Neil Gerace - 09 Feb 2007 12:56 GMT
>> It's all a bit of a w.nk really, just like the ever increasing number of
>> ratio's in automatic transmissions. It seems the *main* criteria for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Definitely. And who is that manufacturer that has the 8 speed
> auto? ... oh that's right, it's LEXUS :-)

Mitsubishi had an 8-speed manual back in the 80s, although it did have two
shifters.
Scotty - 10 Feb 2007 07:12 GMT
>>> It's all a bit of a w.nk really, just like the ever increasing number of
>>> ratio's in automatic transmissions. It seems the *main* criteria for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Mitsubishi had an 8-speed manual back in the 80s, although it did have two
> shifters.

Wasnt that a 5speed? Mitsi Colt Turbo Im sure was 5 speed.
John McKenzie - 09 Feb 2007 06:00 GMT
> It seems the *main* criteria for having
> a 7 speed auto is because your competitor only has 6.
>
> The fact that it makes no f.cking difference to anything to the average Joe
> is completely irrelevant  :)

Increased service and replacement costs (or their reduction in resale
when they are f.cked, or people deciding it's better to buy another new
car) notwithstanding.....

I could make a genuine case for a 4 or 5 speed auto, if we had some
roads in every state with a 200+ limit... not holding my breath. (it
didn't help Ryan.)

Signature

John McKenzie

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Fraser Johnston - 08 Feb 2007 08:43 GMT
>> ~~~~~~~~~~
>> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> really - *14* speakers in a car? When driving (even with the windows
> up) is there that much to be gained over, say, an 8 speaker system?

A Pair of coaxials in the doors is counted as 4 speakers.  Most cars these
days have 8 speakers minimum.

Fraser
Scotty - 08 Feb 2007 08:48 GMT
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~
>>> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Fraser

Three ways x 4 = 12 then there must be either two subs or two extra
tweeters, over kill. And all under powered probably.
Just JT - 08 Feb 2007 09:32 GMT
>> ~~~~~~~~~~
>> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> really - *14* speakers in a car? When driving (even with the windows
> up) is there that much to be gained over, say, an 8 speaker system?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only your person can find out if it makes a difference for you.

--
There's.the.law.of.diminishing.returns.of.course
Noddy - 08 Feb 2007 08:21 GMT
"Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45cad4e5$0$29994

> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
> average....

"Good car stereo" is a contradiction in terms.

Most car interiors make for piss poor acoustics, and even the most basic
household stereo sh.ts all over big buck car stuff.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Just JT - 08 Feb 2007 09:27 GMT
> "Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45cad4e5$0$29994
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Most car interiors make for piss poor acoustics, and even the most basic
> household stereo sh.ts all over big buck car stuff.

~~~~~~~~~~~
You obviously have not listened to a premium Mark Levinson system....

--
Listen.before.you.judge
Scotty - 08 Feb 2007 10:21 GMT
>> "Just JT" <JohnnyThor@Hotmale.com> wrote in message news:45cad4e5$0$29994

>> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
>> average....
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Most car interiors make for piss poor acoustics, and even the most basic
> household stereo sh.ts all over big buck car stuff.

I'd have to disagree big time on that one. You obviously having heard a top
end system played to its potential.

I don't mean, tss tss BOOM, tss tss BOOM boxes.  If you ever heard a top
system playing something like the 1812 overture or somthing like the theme
from Alien or 2001 you would change your mind pretty quickly.

With the cars being quiet these days and the stereo gear being so advances
with such things as time alignment cars can sound better than most home
theatre systems.  Albeit a tad difficult to get that 42 Inch LCD on the dash
panel.

If you ever go to a car show and they are having a sound off ask to climb
into one of the cars with the owner and get a test CD like Alpines Speed of
sound or Highway One (Almost all car audio buffs have one of those two) and
play at a reasonable sound level.  The energy from the mids should shake
your teeth and the sub bass should give your tummy the gitters but nothing
should be over powering.  Eyes closed (I know that noone listens to the cars
audio with their eyes closed!) is the way to listen to it to appreciate the
staging and level. (You should be able to pick out and point to each
instrument set and where the singer is on a real good system)
Neil Gerace - 09 Feb 2007 12:55 GMT
> "Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:.
>>> - 14-speaker premium stereo;
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> An audiophile can hear the difference between a good stereo and the
> average....

While driving the car?
Just JT - 09 Feb 2007 13:10 GMT
>> "Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:.
>>>> - 14-speaker premium stereo;
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> While driving the car?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes while driving in a car with excellent sound insulation.

--
No.vroom.vroom.noise
Scotty - 10 Feb 2007 05:32 GMT
>> "Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:.
>>>> - 14-speaker premium stereo;
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> While driving the car?

I sure can, stock over a decent set up, most people would.

Now trying to pick the difference between a $5k system and $20K whiule
driving would be a damn site more difficult.
Neil Gerace - 11 Feb 2007 13:26 GMT
>>> "Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:.
>>>>> - 14-speaker premium stereo;
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I sure can, stock over a decent set up, most people would.

Yes, but an audiophile, that is someone who listens to the sound and not the
music, wouldn't think 'decent set up' was the same as 'good stereo'.

> Now trying to pick the difference between a $5k system and $20K whiule
> driving would be a damn site more difficult.

true
Emjaye - 07 Feb 2007 13:06 GMT
nospam said....

> The Calais V is certainly *not* a large car. That would be
> Statesman/Fairlane.

A Statesman is just a wagon with a boot, insofar as body size/wheelbase
or track goes. And the new ones are bigger than ever.

I only wish that Holden would put into production, the concept car which
was labeled as a Torana. It had a V6, probably the current engine with
twin turbos, and an AWD system.

Something that's a bit bigger than a Rex, to get away from the riceboy
image and with some REAL mumbo, and torque to go with it, would really
be one hell of a performance vehicle.
Blue  Heeler - 07 Feb 2007 20:13 GMT
> I only wish that Holden would put into production, the concept car
> which was labeled as a Torana. It had a V6, probably the current
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> image and with some REAL mumbo, and torque to go with it, would really
> be one hell of a performance vehicle.

Because they would go massively broke on the number of people prepared
to stump up $70-$80k for one.

--
Emjaye - 10 Feb 2007 05:57 GMT
Blue said....

> Because they would go massively broke on the number of people prepared
> to stump up $70-$80k for one.

Assuming that Holden would place such a vehicle (AWD turbo medium sized
vehicle) in that price bracket.

Thing is, when Holden floated its two door concept car, it was merely
that - look at the popularity of what became the latter day Monaro.

There's a market out there, it's a matter of tapping into it. How many
Australians would prefer a locally built 6 cyl medium sized vehicle over
a full sized (I'd say oversized, given the VE's dimensions over the
VX-Z) family sedan? Then add in some goodies like twin turbos and an AWD
system, perhaps via HSV. Surely that'd be a winner?
D Walford - 10 Feb 2007 11:07 GMT
> Blue said....
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thing is, when Holden floated its two door concept car, it was merely
> that - look at the popularity of what became the latter day Monaro.

If they sold so well why did Holden drop the Monaro?
Most likely that the small number of Monaro's sold doesn't generate
enough income to warrant spending money to update every couple of years.

> There's a market out there, it's a matter of tapping into it. How many
> Australians would prefer a locally built 6 cyl medium sized vehicle over
> a full sized (I'd say oversized, given the VE's dimensions over the
> VX-Z) family sedan? Then add in some goodies like twin turbos and an AWD
> system, perhaps via HSV. Surely that'd be a winner?

There are plenty of imported cars already well established in that very
small market segment, eg Subaru, Audi, VW so IMO Holden would struggle
to break into that market in sufficient numbers to make it worth
spending the significant development costs.
There only hope would be to sell it a lot cheaper than the competition
but I doubt they could do that considering the low volume.

Daryl
rebel - 11 Feb 2007 01:31 GMT
>> Blue said....
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Most likely that the small number of Monaro's sold doesn't generate
>enough income to warrant spending money to update every couple of years.

It's a cult car more than anything else.  So the best way to tap that market is
to reintroduce it periodically for a one-model-instance.

>> There's a market out there, it's a matter of tapping into it. How many
>> Australians would prefer a locally built 6 cyl medium sized vehicle over
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Daryl
Neil Gerace - 11 Feb 2007 13:27 GMT
>> Blue said....
>>> Because they would go massively broke on the number of people prepared
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> If they sold so well why did Holden drop the Monaro?

Because they didn't sell well across all markets.
Andy - 10 Feb 2007 14:17 GMT
> Blue said....
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> VX-Z) family sedan? Then add in some goodies like twin turbos and an AWD
> system, perhaps via HSV. Surely that'd be a winner?

Unfortunately given the current climate in the industry it's a gamble
that they won't take.

cheers,

Andy.  (t'other Andy.)
Fraser Johnston - 12 Feb 2007 13:32 GMT
> Blue said....
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> VX-Z) family sedan? Then add in some goodies like twin turbos and an AWD
> system, perhaps via HSV. Surely that'd be a winner?

Not when it will be compared to a WRX for $40k.

Fraser
a9x5l - 12 Feb 2007 22:14 GMT
>> Blue said....
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Not when it will be compared to a WRX for $40k.

That's right. The VRX Astra costs more than that and it's still only half
a car. I couldn't see how Holden could possibly produce an AWD, turbo 6
cylinder car for less than $50k, an AWD Astra (if one existed) would have
to be around that figure or more. Besides that, we are getting a medium
sized 6 cylinder Holden soon, the Epica :)

Signature

a9x5l

a9x5l - 12 Feb 2007 22:27 GMT
>>> Blue said....
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> to be around that figure or more. Besides that, we are getting a medium
> sized 6 cylinder Holden soon, the Epica :)

That's the VXR Astra. I'm obsessed :)

Signature

a9x5l

Noddy - 13 Feb 2007 00:10 GMT
"a9x5l" <a9x5l@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45d0e6cb$0$494$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-

> That's right. The VRX Astra costs more than that and it's still only half
> a car. I couldn't see how Holden could possibly produce an AWD, turbo 6
> cylinder car for less than $50k, an AWD Astra (if one existed) would have
> to be around that figure or more. Besides that, we are getting a medium
> sized 6 cylinder Holden soon, the Epica :)

They probably could, perhaps for a little more money, but if they did that
doesn't automatically mean everyone would want one.

Look at the Ford "XR" Falcon range for example. The Turbo six is the best
bang per buck performer in that line up, and by a very long way, but they
still sell plenty of regular XR's and XR8's, and the XR8 shows just how many
people are prepared to pay more for a car with *less* performance :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Neil Gerace - 13 Feb 2007 10:08 GMT
> Look at the Ford "XR" Falcon range for example. The Turbo six is the best
> bang per buck performer in that line up, and by a very long way, but they
> still sell plenty of regular XR's and XR8's, and the XR8 shows just how
> many people are prepared to pay more for a car with *less* performance :)

Yeah, and the difference would have been worse, had the XR6 Turbo not been
nobbled to make the V8 look less bad.
Noddy - 13 Feb 2007 12:27 GMT
"Neil Gerace" <geracen@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:45d18dce$0$31852$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-

> Yeah, and the difference would have been worse, had the XR6 Turbo not been
> nobbled to make the V8 look less bad.

It was probably nobbled more in the interests of reliability than anything
else.

An entire culture of parts suppliers has evolved to cater for the *many*
people destroying their engines when they up the boost :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Dan--- - 03 Feb 2007 23:55 GMT
> No offense, but I'm of the opinion that it's not the price that matters to
> you, but the badge. For the price of your Lexus, you could have an SS
> Commodore that would absolutely sh.t all over your car in every way
> imaginable.

Apart from the Lexus top notch build quality.
Although the GS430 I test drove failed to impress me in a lot of ways
apart from the excellent fit n finish.

> Still, it's a Holden, and you wouldn't want that.

Of course not. :-)

Signature

Regards
Dan

Noddy - 04 Feb 2007 09:01 GMT
> Apart from the Lexus top notch build quality.

From what I've seen recently, it ain't that flash :)

> Although the GS430 I test drove failed to impress me in a lot of ways
> apart from the excellent fit n finish.

My physio has one of those ugly soft roader Lexus do-dads, and while it's a
nice car (apart from being f.ck ugly) with some nifty features, it's *far*
from well finished and looks typically "Toyota" to me.

Still, it has the "Lexus" badge on it, and that's why she bought it.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
budgie - 04 Feb 2007 11:37 GMT
>> Apart from the Lexus top notch build quality.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Still, it has the "Lexus" badge on it, and that's why she bought it.

with your money ....
Noddy - 04 Feb 2007 12:37 GMT
> with your money ....

Mine, hers, and everyone else's.

So what?

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Dan--- - 04 Feb 2007 21:37 GMT
>> with your money ....
>
> Mine, hers, and everyone else's.
>
> So what?

Ahhh you just had an Al Bundy moment. :-)

Signature

Regards
Dan

budgie - 05 Feb 2007 03:16 GMT
>> with your money ....
>
>Mine, hers, and everyone else's.
>
>So what?

They were having a "how many xxx does it take to change a lightbulb?" day here
recently, and when XXX was "physio" the answer was:  only one, but it will take
at least six visits to get it right.

Sorry, but I have yet to find a physio worth a pinch of goatshit.  Of course,
YMMV.
Noddy - 05 Feb 2007 05:06 GMT
> Sorry, but I have yet to find a physio worth a pinch of goatshit.  Of
> course,

You're either not looking hard enough or don't have a great enough need to
do so. They're out there, but they're difficult to find at times, just like
anyone else.

Mine is absolutely brilliant, but it took a couple of years worth of various
physio's to eventually find her.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
John McKenzie - 05 Feb 2007 08:09 GMT
> > Sorry, but I have yet to find a physio worth a pinch of goatshit.  Of
> > course,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Mine is absolutely brilliant, but it took a couple of years worth of various
> physio's to eventually find her.

the problem with that (as you are no doubt even more aware than most) is
that getting it right, as soon as physio is appropriate, right from the
word go, is _incredibly_ important. If you don't get it right as early
on as possible, it's possible the area will never recover.

Although this is a bit of a tangent, another thing that's crucial is
diet, adequate protein, calories in general, essential fatty acids and
various micronutrients. Should be intuitive. But more than a few
bodybuilders, when on a restricted calorie diet, for contest prep, have
had an injury, then try and stick to the calorific deficit and stay on
track for the comp, and worsen or fail to heal the injury. Your body
can't heal on a calorie deficit. Even with all the muscle promoting
pharmaceuticals these types use, they can stil f.ck up for life. Makes
it even more important for us non 'body is a chem lab' folks.

My motorcycle accident was a tiptoe through the tulips compared to
yours, but had some issues (with the original orthopedic surgeon). he
was late to every appointment, with people crowding waiting rooms, then
did a very perfunctory and condescending 20 second consult, then went to
the next, getting every appointment done in 2minutes tops each.

I inititially didn't say much, because I'm not a whinger, and also
because our doctor happened to live in the same street as I grew up in,
and he referred me there, and the guy was a family friend of his (from
the same suburb from where the both came from originally.

Ended up with it healing and the shoulder an inch or two off. Ended up
putting up with it. It sh.ts me in retrospect as I was a fairly keen
powerlifter (hadn't competed) and since then, I've had shoulder issues
when I've tried to push up to personal bests in the bench. I 'could' get
cut open, and have a plate and screws, but f.ck it. It didn't cost me
100lbs or something, but there is a difference, and had I had the proper
advice earlier, and more competent help - they did a 'closed'
manipulation, where they pull on the arms till the bones pop into
alignment, then strap it up with a made for the job harness)

The drunken piece of sh.t (as it later turns out) didn't bother
organising this harness, so I left the hospital with it jerry rigged in
bandages to hold the shoulders in place, and by the time I was home it
popped out. Waste of f.cking time, money (since the tac didn't properly
come through - I was working a heavy lifting job, and so was going in to
work and doing all the paperwork for the loading bay, working roughly
3hr days. On the advice of the surgeon, 'it wasn't rocket science' and I
should let common sense and pain be my guide. I couldn't hold/carry
anything heavy for at a minimum 6 weeks, and probably double that. I
pushed as hard as I could and was back in the saddle. But because I
didn't have a doctors certificate for each and every hour, the tac were
a pack of c.nts and made out as if it were fraudulent. Beauracracy at
work. Yippee. What really pisses me off about that is that I went back
to full time duties, and used unclaimed RDOs for the first couple of
days I was off, to do the right thing by everyone, and these c.nts took
the attitude I was shifty. f.ck the tac. I must say to be fair, whilst
some other people bludged where I worked, and I took up the slack for
them, the higher ups in the company were bloody decent about it, and
genuine about wanting me (and that went for all employees) properly
healed, and so forth.

Signature

John McKenzie

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Noddy - 05 Feb 2007 11:40 GMT
> the problem with that (as you are no doubt even more aware than most) is
> that getting it right, as soon as physio is appropriate, right from the
> word go, is _incredibly_ important. If you don't get it right as early
> on as possible, it's possible the area will never recover.

Good point.

> Although this is a bit of a tangent, another thing that's crucial is
> diet, adequate protein, calories in general, essential fatty acids and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> pharmaceuticals these types use, they can stil f.ck up for life. Makes
> it even more important for us non 'body is a chem lab' folks.

Yep, and while I'm certainly not a role model for such regimes, I do what I
can within the bounds of reality while still *enjoying* my grub.

> My motorcycle accident was a tiptoe through the tulips compared to
> yours, but had some issues (with the original orthopedic surgeon). he
> was late to every appointment, with people crowding waiting rooms, then
> did a very perfunctory and condescending 20 second consult, then went to
> the next, getting every appointment done in 2minutes tops each.

Nice.

> I inititially didn't say much, because I'm not a whinger, and also
> because our doctor happened to live in the same street as I grew up in,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> manipulation, where they pull on the arms till the bones pop into
> alignment, then strap it up with a made for the job harness)

Yep.

Makes you wonder about the value of "specialists" some times when it seems
all they care about is what way you can help them finance their latest
property purchase in East Melbourne.

> The drunken piece of sh.t (as it later turns out) didn't bother
> organising this harness, so I left the hospital with it jerry rigged in
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> genuine about wanting me (and that went for all employees) properly
> healed, and so forth.

Good to hear, and I'm with ya as far as the TAC is concerned. I'll be
fighting them for years, the pack of c.nts, and I fully expect them to go to
every length possible to make out that *I* was in the wrong and *I'm* the
prick who's trying to rip off the system.

I've got a good Barrister who fully intends taking them to the cleaners, but
his cut will be enormous.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
budgie - 05 Feb 2007 09:39 GMT
>> Sorry, but I have yet to find a physio worth a pinch of goatshit.  Of
>> course,
>
>You're either not looking hard enough or don't have a great enough need to
>do so. They're out there, but they're difficult to find at times, just like
>anyone else.

<O/T> Maybe I never looked long enough.  Having just read John's follow-up post,
I guess I'm very lucky with my accident/injuries to date.  Knees f.cked good and
proper in a car accident, ortho-knife-man did a fair job of restoring what could
be restored.  There are two physio practices in our vicinity, both (apparently)
very highly regarded by the local geepees.  The only redeeming feature of either
was one veeeerrry attractice chickie, but hey I wasn't there for a "massage".

An ankle rooted good and proper by general practice 40 years back took about two
years of on-and-off physio to come good.  That repair job was by the brilliant
guys/gals at Perth's sports medicine group in Shenton Park, the same few who
then handled the aussie olympic team under Ken Fitch.

>Mine is absolutely brilliant, but it took a couple of years worth of various
>physio's to eventually find her.

I think that's the key, like dentists/lawyers/accountants/whatever - there ARE
good ones out there, but it takes real persistence to find the good one.
</O/T>
Noddy - 05 Feb 2007 11:44 GMT
> <O/T> Maybe I never looked long enough.  Having just read John's follow-up
> post,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> was one veeeerrry attractice chickie, but hey I wasn't there for a
> "massage".

No, but it helps if the "scenery" is nice though :)

> An ankle rooted good and proper by general practice 40 years back took
> about two
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who
> then handled the aussie olympic team under Ken Fitch.

Cool.

> I think that's the key, like dentists/lawyers/accountants/whatever - there
> ARE
> good ones out there, but it takes real persistence to find the good one.
> </O/T>

It does, and while my injuries are permanent, physio for me is "maintenance"
that has a great effect on pain relief and allows me to get *some* stuff
done at times.

I don't know how many physio's I've seen over the years, and maybe it's just
me, but I've found that women tend to be much better at it than men, simply
because they're more intent on listening to what's actually wrong with you,
and experimenting with different methods without trying to use you as a lump
of Play-doh and mould you into some abstract artwork as most guys tend to
do.

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Fraser Johnston - 06 Feb 2007 08:02 GMT
>> Sorry, but I have yet to find a physio worth a pinch of goatshit.  Of
>> course,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Mine is absolutely brilliant, but it took a couple of years worth of various
> physio's to eventually find her.

So what you are trying to tell us is that she does happy endings. ; )

Fraser
Noddy - 06 Feb 2007 09:27 GMT
> So what you are trying to tell us is that she does happy endings. ; )

Kinda :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Neil Gerace - 04 Feb 2007 01:25 GMT
car.

> No offense, but I'm of the opinion that it's not the price that matters to
> you, but the badge. For the price of your Lexus, you could have an SS
> Commodore that would absolutely sh.t all over your car in every way
> imaginable.

Until you hit a corner.
Noddy - 04 Feb 2007 09:02 GMT
"Neil Gerace" <geracen@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:45c535a5$0$25324$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-

> Until you hit a corner.

Clearly, you're totally unfamiliar with either car :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.
Fraser Johnston - 06 Feb 2007 03:55 GMT
> No offense, but I'm of the opinion that it's not the price that matters to
> you, but the badge. For the price of your Lexus, you could have an SS
> Commodore that would absolutely sh.t all over your car in every way
> imaginable.
>
> Still, it's a Holden, and you wouldn't want that.

Not in build quality or fuel efficiency.

Fraser
Marco - 04 Feb 2007 01:16 GMT
> Yep, it's a baby Lexus because that's all my money can afford. If our market
> were not protected by a local car industry, the same money can buy more car.
>
> --
> Protectionism.sucks

Protection these days, with import duties at 10%, is negligible.
Luxury car tax applies to the locally made luxos as well, so put that
aside.  Your baby Lexus would be 10% cheaper at best, and still not
worth its pricetag.  Nice car, yes.  Value for money, no.

Marco
Neil Gerace - 04 Feb 2007 01:27 GMT
> Protection these days, with import duties at 10%, is negligible.

Apart from direct cash injections every time our foreign-owned manufacturers
mutter about leaving.
budgie - 04 Feb 2007 04:59 GMT
>> Protection these days, with import duties at 10%, is negligible.
>
>Apart from direct cash injections every time our foreign-owned manufacturers
>mutter about leaving.

Don't recall that happening when Nissan pulled the pin on Oz manufacturing.

OTOH MMAL will receive SAGovco funds until the gates are locked (and probably
after that too ....)
Athol - 05 Feb 2007 04:20 GMT
> Don't recall that happening when Nissan pulled the pin on Oz manufacturing.

Yes, but the Button plan said that one had to go, and Nissan was it.

Signature

Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>   Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

Neil Gerace - 05 Feb 2007 07:56 GMT
> Don't recall that happening when Nissan pulled the pin on Oz
> manufacturing.

Policies change! Or perhaps the injections were kept secret or not large
enough.
Just JT - 04 Feb 2007 07:41 GMT
> Protection these days, with import duties at 10%, is negligible.
> Luxury car tax applies to the locally made luxos as well, so put that
> aside.  Your baby Lexus would be 10% cheaper at best, and still not
> worth its pricetag.  Nice car, yes.  Value for money, no.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
If value for money were my main concern, I would've bought a Hyundai Getz.

--
Or.any.Korean.derivative.@.$13990.driveaway
Marco - 04 Feb 2007 01:13 GMT
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> If it means I can afford a brand new Mercedes Benz S500 with a sticker price
> of Au$100,000, I'd vote manufacturing OUT. Otherwise, it's status quo.

Don't hold your breath.  Even if you removed import duty (only 10% now
anyway, and nothing if it's made in a free trade agreement country)
and luxury car tax, I doubt you'd go anywhere near $100,000 for an
S500.

Marco
Neil Gerace - 04 Feb 2007 01:24 GMT
>> > Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a
>> > drive.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> stopped in this country, with the corresponding effect on employment,
> the balance of payments, and the skill base of this country?

Taxpayers in other states would probably celebrate.
Marco - 04 Feb 2007 21:02 GMT
> >> > Still think it is ugly.   Might change my mind if I take one for a
> >> > drive.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Taxpayers in other states would probably celebrate.

Would they really, though?  Would they be happy about a high-tech,
high-value industry departing this country like so many before it?

I'm not a fan of handouts for industry on the whole, but I guess I'm
between a rock and a hard place as I'd also like the car industry to
stay in business here.  Having said that, the assistance we provide
our car industry is a pittance compared to the assistance and tariff
protection that goes on in most other places.

Marco
Neil Gerace - 05 Feb 2007 07:58 GMT
> Would they really, though?  Would they be happy about a high-tech,
> high-value industry departing this country like so many before it?

Most of the high-tech, high-value components in today's cars are imported.
Or at the very least, the technology itself wasn't invented here and we
didn't get any money for it.
Marco - 05 Feb 2007 21:09 GMT
> > Would they really, though?  Would they be happy about a high-tech,
> > high-value industry departing this country like so many before it?
>
> Most of the high-tech, high-value components in today's cars are imported.
> Or at the very least, the technology itself wasn't invented here and we
> didn't get any money for it.

Plenty of people are employed here designing and developing cars and
car components, though...

Marco
 
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