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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / June 2007Sunroof - talk me out of it?
"*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and horror! But I had an a/m sunroof many (many!!!) years ago and it never leaked (10 years plus), wasn't used to break in, and it was marvellous - let the heat out when parked in sun, gives wonderful open feeling to driving, nice breezes, better air flow. I don't want anything sophisticated, just a tilt/removable glass one. Scary thought to do this to a brand new car, but it has a 3 year warranty from the maker (Hollandia/Webasto), and... I really want one. There's no way I would pay the price of a factory fitted electric monstrosity - I'm already offended by having to accept electric windows & mirrors. Any comments? Feel free to insult my level of common sense! > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > horror! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any comments? Feel free to insult my level of common sense! If you want one, buy one. 3 Year warrentee? Is that including fitting? If it comes with a fittment warrentee go for it. If your in FNQld get a blackened out one, if your in Hobart, get a big one. These days you should be able to get a decent unit with good bonding glues etc. So, you know the pros and cons, what ya gunna do? > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > horror! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any comments? Feel free to insult my level of common sense! Angle Grinder cuting disk and flap disc Broken Measure tape Black window flex screw driver file drill and bits dusty back lawn Lets fit it. rain tomorrow night,we'll will do it in the mourning. Whatr I can say is depending on what type of car and the strengh of the roof metal,it could be very flimbsy and dodgy if a new car. Thin sheet metal and lack of roof bracing beams could run a real issue. Its advice. That dose not mean somone charging $80 an hour can fit it and it look and appear to work fine.... > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > horror! Why's that? Every Ford, Holden or Mitsubishi made in Australia and sold with a "factory fitted" sunroof has an after market one :) -- Regards, Noddy. > <mark.thoma...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Good point - and I think they are made by the same company... But there seem to be a fair few posts against them, and a number of folk I have told about the idea have expressed deep concerns. Guess I'll just have to take'm for a drive on a nice hot day (or at night - driving under the stars is cool, too..) and show them why I got one... And then in five years, take them again for a drive in the rain. (O: Just to clarify, there is no way I would do this myself - authorised/ certified fitter only. Website for Hollandia/Webasto is here if anyone interested. No prices though...? http://www.webasto.com.au/am_auto_439.html > Good point - and I think they are made by the same company... As far as I'm aware they are. > But > there seem to be a fair few posts against them, and a number of folk I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one... And then in five years, take them again for a drive in the > rain. (O: I don't know why anyone would have anything against them to be honest, as they're no more elaborate or problematic than power windows. In fact they're usually a little better than power windows in that most have an emergency manually operated means of closing the things if they stop working. > Just to clarify, there is no way I would do this myself - authorised/ > certified fitter only. In all honesty they're not overly complicated to fit, and if you watched the guys doing it you'd be quite amazed at the process :) I've had a few, and if I had the choice I'd rather have one than not. Whenever I owned a car with one I used it every single time I got in the thing, and found them to be excellent devices. The only disadvantage is that in having one fitted you lose around 40mm of head clearance depending on the car, so if you sit in your car with your hair rubbing against the head lining now then it may be a problem. > Website for Hollandia/Webasto is here if anyone interested. No prices > though...? > > http://www.webasto.com.au/am_auto_439.html Figure on a couple of grand fitted for a good dual mode one. -- Regards, Noddy. >> <mark.thoma...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Just to clarify, there is no way I would do this myself - authorised/ > certified fitter only. Yep, don't try it at home. > Website for Hollandia/Webasto is here if anyone interested. No prices > though...? > > http://www.webasto.com.au/am_auto_439.html All the Hollandia ones we have ever had fitted or were fitted factory have been excellent. >> "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and >> horror! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Every Ford, Holden or Mitsubishi made in Australia and sold with a "factory > fitted" sunroof has an after market one :) Yep. My mate got one fitted to his BA XR8 ute and it was done the same place the dealers get them done. Hollandia iirc. It looks like it rolled out of the factory with it. Great job and no problems with it in the last year. Fraser > > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > > horror! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Every Ford, Holden or Mitsubishi made in Australia and sold with a "factory > fitted" sunroof has an after market one :) I think Holden actually does build Commodores with sunroofs 'on the line' now - I'll have to check though. Marco > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > horror! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any comments? Feel free to insult my level of common sense! I don't like sunroofs and wouldn't have a car that had one, every time I drove my son's Prelude the first thing I did was make sure the stupid sunroof was fully closed. How anyone can put up the the wind noise and buffeting is beyond me. What sort of car are you thinking about vandalizing? Daryl > How anyone can put up the the wind noise and buffeting is beyond me. Was the deflector plate not working? -- Regards, Noddy. > > How anyone can put up the the wind noise and buffeting is beyond me. > > Was the deflector plate not working? Alt.baldspot ? :-) Seriously, nope, don't want sun/moon roof stuff. I can lay full length in the back of my pickup and gaze at the stars and trees if I wanna (prolly not legal, however have done at over 100 kph). > I can lay full length in the back of my pickup > and gaze at the stars and trees if I wanna (prolly > not legal, however have done at over 100 kph). hopefully someone was driving at the time :) -mark >> I can lay full length in the back of my pickup >> and gaze at the stars and trees if I wanna (prolly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -mark Cruise control :-)  Signature"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." Don Hirschberg >> How anyone can put up the the wind noise and buffeting is beyond me. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Yep but sunroofs still suck. Daryl > Yep but sunroofs still suck. Never had that problem with any of mine, and I loved them. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Yep but sunroofs still suck. > > Never had that problem with any of mine, and I loved them. I don't like them either and would never have one. Just personal preference, not because there is anything wrong with sunroofs perse. >>> Yep but sunroofs still suck. >> Never had that problem with any of mine, and I loved them. > > I don't like them either and would never have one. Just personal preference, > not because there is anything wrong with sunroofs perse. If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut in a structural member of the car. Either your car is now much less stiff and crash resistant than before, OR they've added enough reinforcing, which means the car is now heavier, with a higher centre of gravity. On a cruiser? Who cares. On a performance car? Going backwards. > If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut in > a structural member of the car. Roof panels aren't structural members of car bodies, and any car maker that claims they are should be on your "products to avoid at all costs" shortlist. > Either your car is now much less stiff and crash resistant than before, OR > they've added enough reinforcing, which means the car is now heavier, with > a higher centre of gravity. They generally don't add anything other than the necessary bracketry to fit the sunroof, which in most cases is bonded to the underside of the roof panel. All up weight difference might be 15kg at worst, and it that made any measurable difference to a car's handling or safety you'd see roof racks banned tomorrow. -- Regards, Noddy. > If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut > in a structural member of the car. Err. Yes... Which structural member would that be? SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut >> in a structural member of the car. > > Err. Yes... Which structural member would that be? The windscreen and roof are structural, however when the hole is cut generally isn't unless they cut out the support brace (and I doubt they would). > The windscreen and roof are structural, however when the hole is cut > generally isn't unless they cut out the support brace (and I doubt they > would). Roof sheetmetal is never a structural part of any car. The underlying framework usually is though. -- Regards, Noddy. >> The windscreen and roof are structural, however when the hole is cut >> generally isn't unless they cut out the support brace (and I doubt they >> would). > > Roof sheetmetal is never a structural part of any car. The underlying > framework usually is though. Yes, that's right. Sorry if I didn't convey that too well in my post. >>> If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut >>> in a structural member of the car. >> Err. Yes... Which structural member would that be? > The windscreen and roof are structural, however when the hole is cut > generally isn't unless they cut out the support brace (and I doubt they > would). The roof _frame_ is certainly structural, and in a lot of cars the perimeter of the roof is structural in so far as it effectively gussets the corners of the frame. The reality is that you could cut the middle of the roof out with essentially no structural effect as long as the hole you cut is rounded at the corners and isn't too close to the edges... And before someone says that the cross-braces in the middle of the roof are structural, I'll mention that they are *anti-drumming* ribs that are intended to stop the large sheetmetal area of the roof skin from behaving like a wobbleboard as the vehicle drives down the road. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >>>>If you actually want an argument against them: They are a big hole cut >>>>in a structural member of the car. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that are intended to stop the large sheetmetal area of the roof skin > from behaving like a wobbleboard as the vehicle drives down the road. and if they were structural, they wouldn't be offering the cars with a "factory" sunroof but then, anything to sell cars Kev > And before someone says that the cross-braces in the middle of the > roof are structural, I'll mention that they are *anti-drumming* ribs > that are intended to stop the large sheetmetal area of the roof skin > from behaving like a wobbleboard as the vehicle drives down the road. So which bit is the actual structural roof 'frame' that you mentioned? I always thought the cross-braces were part of the roof structure - certainly at least the one linking the B pillars. Marco > So which bit is the actual structural roof 'frame' that you > mentioned? I always thought the cross-braces were part of the roof > structure - certainly at least the one linking the B pillars. The structural bits are the pillars, and the outer "square" frame section that goes around the periphery of the roof tying them all together. The roof "skin" is just decorative, and as Athol said the cross-members mainly exist to stop the skin from deforming and drumming. It's basically like a car door. The outer skin serves very little purpose other than to make the car look fancy and keep the weather out, while the frame it's attached to serves as the structural member. That's the general case, but there are the odd exception to the rule here and there. -- Regards, Noddy. >> And before someone says that the cross-braces in the middle of the >> roof are structural, I'll mention that they are *anti-drumming* ribs >> that are intended to stop the large sheetmetal area of the roof skin >> from behaving like a wobbleboard as the vehicle drives down the road. > So which bit is the actual structural roof 'frame' that you > mentioned? I always thought the cross-braces were part of the roof > structure - certainly at least the one linking the B pillars. Ever looked at how small those ribs are? On some cars such as older holdens, the one between the B pillars is bigger than the rest - it is where the interior light mounts! On the older stretched cloth hoodlinings, the ribs are also used to hold the hoodlining bows in place (the bows are inserted through the hoodlining to give it shape). Try looking at a Suzuki Hatch. They skipped fitting the ribs and just stuck a piece of wetsuit style foam backed trim on the inside of the roof skin. The roof frame is a perimeter frame consisting of the section across the top of the windscreen, the side rails and the section across the top of the rear window (or tailgate on wagons, hatches, etc). That perimeter frame ties to all of the structural pillars. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> Yep but sunroofs still suck. > > Never had that problem with any of mine, and I loved them. You either love them or hate them and I'm the later:-) I just don't see the point of the things, too much of a compromise to be useful, they are a poor substitute for real soft top and IMO ruin the look of a any car. Daryl > You either love them or hate them and I'm the later:-) I guessed :) > I just don't see the point of the things, too much of a compromise to be > useful, they are a poor substitute for real soft top and IMO ruin the look > of a any car. Depends totally on the "look" in my opinion. I'm totally against the "el cheapo" flip up glass types that cost a couple hundred bucks as they look like absolute sh.t. However some of the more expensive jobs look good, and those that have a sheetmetal top like a lot of the Euro cars do are hard to pick from a standard roof from a distance. What I like about them is that they let in a shitload of air & sun on a good day without having to endure the problems normally associated with true convertibles, like leaks and cold during winter, and shitful rear vision out of the faded plastic rear window. -- Regards, Noddy. I drove a somewhat bomby old 4 runner in the US, and was giving a yank friend a ride one day, and she started pressing buttons... the hard roof slid away! Revealing a clear roof. And that could be made to slide away too. Bloody fancy, and it was a standard boring release old 4 Runner. Thing is, you tend not to notice the sunroof when driving (I rarely open Vitey's, there's no point). but the sunroof on the Toyota was handy for sticking my hand out of with the camera to take photos without stopping. SignatureDon't try to reply to my email addy: I'm borrowing that of the latest scammer/spammer >> You either love them or hate them and I'm the later:-) > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > true convertibles, like leaks and cold during winter, and shitful rear > vision out of the faded plastic rear window. f.ck the sun and wind, I want a nice quiet environment ;-) > f.ck the sun and wind, I want a nice quiet environment ;-) Lol :) Fairlanes and Statesmans aren't exactly loud cars on the inside with the roof closed :) -- Regards, Noddy. >>> You either love them or hate them and I'm the later:-) >> I guessed :) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > f.ck the sun and wind, I want a nice quiet environment ;-) Me too, I don't like any more noise than necessary when driving. Daryl On Jun 21, 7:56 pm, mark.thoma...@gmail.com wrote: > "*Aftermarket* sunroof" - words that seem to invite derision and > horror! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any comments? Feel free to insult my level of common sense! Urk no. Nor a moonroof either. Back in about 1985 I had one fitted My car at the time was an immaculate as new condition green Skoda 1100 cc approx 1977 vintage Back in NZ, especially at that time, refridgerant airconditiong was found on very few cars, yet often you'd get warm wet rainy days and usually it was impossible for the normal heater-demister to keep the windows of cars clear of misting-up SUN ROOF whooooh fantastic. Just pop the tilting glass open to the first or 2nd click (could still drive in anything except belting rain with it so opened) and the heater-demister worked soooo much better, kept windows clear. If the weather was anything like reasonable, I'd pop out the removable pins and remove the glass entirely. With a wee bit of practice I got used to doing this in about 5 seconds flat while sitting in the car with just a couple of movements, and mostly in one hand, then reaching far enough to be able to place the glass roof-plate gently on the back seat behind me From the inside the glass looked very darkly tinted, but from the outside it looked mirrored Never got too much sun in the car (in Aust some kind of shutter or curtain'd be nice) Never leaked during torrential rain Car often parked outside including frosts Sunroof didn't take up any more headroom that a thin metal surround, just a couple of mm thick I remember at the time, the total price was about $300. At the time, the cost of just buying the sunroof itself at an auto parts store (and fitting it yourself) was about $150 I can't remember whether I looked in the yellow pages or just went to a motor-trimmer sorta place I saw located while driving along the road in suburban Christchurch, but I's very happy with the installation service I wish I still had that car, my mostly country use averaged 37 mpg ! Excellent grip on dirt etc with the motor weight over the rear driving wheels and even the old fashioned worm peg steering was as light as power steering ! Had a towbar, it even towed a car-transporter trailer ok (empty ! I wouldn't expect it to tow one with a car on ! ) cheerio -- "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" .....HEROES ep 5 Oct 2006 this email brought to you by Rubbish-Dump computer-power ! Find me at http://myspace.com/catherinejemma check my weBlog http://catherinejemma.blogspot.com Patsy....."So is killing NOT wrong anymore ?" Trudy....."We don't have to worry about Right and Wrong anymore, ZOOT decides for us" ................The Tribe episode 2:49 |
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