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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / June 2007'Vauxhall' foot tyre pump?
I have a elderly-looking foot-operated tyre pump kicking around the place. The foot pedal (cast iron) has 'Vauxhall' on it, and appears to be original, not something removed from a car. The air pump head and base are cast bronze, the frame aluminium. The whole thing is very robustly built and works super-well - the best damn foot pump I've ever used, in fact. My question: has anyone any idea how old this thing is? When did cars (even Pommie cars) stop having tyre pumps in their tool kits? John > My question: has anyone any idea how old this thing is? When did cars > (even Pommie cars) stop having tyre pumps in their tool kits? Last Tuesday :) -- Regards, Noddy. > I have a elderly-looking foot-operated tyre pump kicking around the > place. The foot pedal (cast iron) has 'Vauxhall' on it, and appears to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My question: has anyone any idea how old this thing is? When did cars > (even Pommie cars) stop having tyre pumps in their tool kits? Knowing the Poms,..they could still be using them. Paint it green and chuck it in some long grass,..then buy an electric pump :-) Jason > Knowing the Poms,..they could still be using them. Paint it green and chuck > it in some long grass,..then buy an electric pump :-) > > Jason Got one, thanks. A Volcano Air Erupt (chuckle) never used still in its original shrink-wrapped box. Wondering if I should put it on that funny place? While I'm still big'n'strong and healthy think I'd just as soon use the foot pump - just right for my Laser, which has had 2 flat tyres in 13 years. John > I have a elderly-looking foot-operated tyre pump kicking around the > place. The foot pedal (cast iron) has 'Vauxhall' on it, and appears to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John No idea,hard to find a good foot pump all the same,most of them crush when taking a few quick pumps. Can just imagine trying to pop the walls out with one of those,it could take all day. Alumimum suggest it it not very old. > Alumimum suggest it it not very old. Not necessarily - aluminium was used extensively in the motor industry right back to the beginnings - I can, without trying, think of at least two cars (one American, one English) from the early twenties with aluminium crankcases and pistons for example, and I have a partly aluminium hand pump from the same era. Rolls Royce was making extensive use of aluminium including all aluminium bodies before 1910, as was Vauxhall at least by 1913. JD >>Alumimum suggest it it not very old. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > JD It seems logical not to make a pump out of the stuff,then again,in posh circles I would have to agree somewhat. I would not consider Vauxhall posh,but will stand corrected. Alot of those early pommie cars were certainly all paneled in the stuff as it was easy to work with. Love removing dints from these,pity the scap guy's go banana's over them. $500-$600 a crush. Rover? >>>Alumimum suggest it it not very old. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > $500-$600 a crush. > Rover? Vauxhall was a top sports car until they were taken over by GM in the 1930s. Then went down hill very rapidly - a close friend of mine's first car was a 1936 model. Knee action IFS (courtesy Cadillac - one of the worst designs to ever make it into production), brakes operated by bowden cables (well, operated sometimes, anyway, you never knew what would happen when you pressed the pedal). JD > >>Alumimum suggest it it not very old. > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > $500-$600 a crush. > Rover? Spot on. I remember yonks ago finding a car-tip in Katoomba Blue-mountains NSW west of Sydney. It was full of old pomme stuff,..a collectors/restorers dream. Not there of course now. But you could pick the Rover 90s etc,..their guards and bonnets were all ally,.apart from their attractive styling (ahemm). Remember the attempted future car,..the Jet turbine Rover? Jason >I have a elderly-looking foot-operated tyre pump kicking around the >place. The foot pedal (cast iron) has 'Vauxhall' on it, and appears to >be original, not something removed from a car. The air pump head and >base are cast bronze, the frame aluminium. The whole thing is very >robustly built and works super-well - the best damn foot pump I've >ever used, in fact. Have a good look and see if there's 'Kinsman' placard on it somewhere. If there is it'll also be the best pump you're ever likely to use. >My question: has anyone any idea how old this thing is? When did cars >(even Pommie cars) stop having tyre pumps in their tool kits? 1950's IIRC, but most of them weren't worth pinch of sh.t by then. The Kinsman I've got (which isn't a foot pump) is pre WW2 AFAIK (came out of a Morris 20 I think).  SignatureJohn H > >I have a elderly-looking foot-operated tyre pump kicking around the > >place. The foot pedal (cast iron) has 'Vauxhall' on it, and appears to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The Kinsman I've got (which isn't a foot pump) is pre WW2 AFAIK (came > out of a Morris 20 I think). Dad had this long hand-pump with a foot at the base on one side and a wooden handle which used to come off all the time. Pumped up more FC Holden spare-tyres (family car in the '60s) than I care to remember with the damn thing. Used to change tyres as well. Break the bead using a long piece of 4 by 4 levered against the lower fence rail,..man what a masochist's delight :-) Jason >> The Kinsman I've got (which isn't a foot pump) is pre WW2 AFAIK (came >> out of a Morris 20 I think). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >by 4 levered against the lower fence rail,..man what a masochist's delight >:-) AFAIK 'miracle safely rims' (an Australian invention) didn't hit the scene until the early 1950's, and became standard virtually overnight (a lot of older cars were also modified retrospectively). Prior to which bead breaking wasn't an issue (they fell of the rim as soon as they deflated). FWIW once of the best DIY bead breakers was the old Chrysler bumper jack (which also came standard with Valiants). It had a base plate designed for the purpose. First Chryslers to have tubeless tyres (around '56) came with that jack, a bloody awful two handed pump, and a leather strap with a toggle (for spreading the bead so a tubeless tyre could be inflated with the hand pump). The pommie Kinsman (from earlier days) was a double acting pump with a fancy valve arrangement in the base and a clip-on chuck that held the valve open. It had a flat square hand grip, with finger holes IIRC (haven't used mine for years). No sweat at all to inflate a tyre to 45 psi using one hand. Long before I could afford a compressor, I always fitted my own tyres and inflated most of them with the Kinsman. Still fit my own and usually break the bead with the help of a heavy board (if there's no dozer blade handy). Curve the edge slightly with the chainsaw, lay the wheel flat with the curved edge against the rim and drive up the board. A couple of smacks with the slide hammer while the weight's on the bead completes the job without marking the rim (unlike the equipment some tyre shops use). SignatureJohn H > >> The Kinsman I've got (which isn't a foot pump) is pre WW2 AFAIK (came > >> out of a Morris 20 I think). [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > a leather strap with a toggle (for spreading the bead so a tubeless > tyre could be inflated with the hand pump). I thought "I" discovered that innovaton. The bumper jack did work very well,..even tho it was straight-edged. Arubber hammer (big one) and a couple of levers and some very soapy sludge did the rest. I watched one guy use a steel hammer (4lber),..I hit the rim too often with it. > The pommie Kinsman (from earlier days) was a double acting pump with a > fancy valve arrangement in the base and a clip-on chuck that held the > valve open. It had a flat square hand grip, with finger holes IIRC > (haven't used mine for years). No sweat at all to inflate a tyre to > 45 psi using one hand. That is good for a hand -pump. Long before I could afford a compressor, I > always fitted my own tyres and inflated most of them with the Kinsman. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > while the weight's on the bead completes the job without marking the > rim (unlike the equipment some tyre shops use). Yeah,..you can weld up one going by the manual one I saw in a workshop. Jason >> FWIW once of the best DIY bead breakers was the old Chrysler bumper >> jack (which also came standard with Valiants). It had a base plate [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >well,..even tho it was straight-edged. Arubber hammer (big one) and a couple >of levers and some very soapy sludge did the rest. The Chrysler instruction book provided the details of how to use it, though I'm not sure if they were carried over to the Valiant manual. The jack certainly was and the base still had one curved side for the purpose... which may not have been obvious to those who weren't looking for it. Last Valiant I had was a VJ ute and I used the jack frequently. :) >I watched one guy use a steel hammer (4lber),..I hit the rim too often with >it. I've seen a few rough operators do it that way, and yet to see one who didn't collect the rim, often. I wouldn't want to be driving on the tyre again, either way. :) >Yeah,..you can weld up one going by the manual one I saw in a workshop. As I recall some cocky once won a prize for a farm built bead breaker that used a long lever and a hinged plate, all attached to a steel base. I've seen a few and they work fine if you don't mind the space they take up. I've always fancied an 'ironman'. That's the original manually operated tyre fitting machine with a centre post you walked around to fit the bead. They had an air operated bead breaker at the base. I've seen the odd one go to auction but they always seem to bring the earth (which puts 'em way beyond my means). Meanwhile a thick wooden plank you can drive up works fine. I've been using the same one for years, though I have re-trimmed the business end on a few occasions. Stands quietly in the corner when not in use. SignatureJohn H > >> FWIW once of the best DIY bead breakers was the old Chrysler bumper > >> jack (which also came standard with Valiants). It had a base plate [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > using the same one for years, though I have re-trimmed the business > end on a few occasions. Stands quietly in the corner when not in use. Yeah,..those were the days, most guys used to think you're nuts for doing it yourself :-)..now my back is a basket-case and I've no-show of doing tyre changes. When you teach yourself, I often missed a crucial tip,..the one which I cursed myself for missing, was to simply rotate the tyre to make the tube valve stay vertical, before pumping it up. On tubeless, I used to follow the commercial guys lead in getting the bead to spread-out on the safety rim,..and once again, use the air-line *without* any restrictor to blast massive air in to push the tyre completely out. That last tip took a while to realise :-) Jason >Yeah,..those were the days, most guys used to think you're nuts for doing it >yourself :-)..now my back is a basket-case and I've no-show of doing tyre >changes. When you teach yourself, I often missed a crucial tip,..the one >which I cursed myself for missing, was to simply rotate the tyre to make the >tube valve stay vertical, before pumping it up. Recently watched a bloke change a couple of tractor tyres using a fork lift and he hardly bent his back at all (I've filed it all away for future reference). :) The one the professional tyre fitters invariably missed was to double inflate... which I used to do religiously, even when I used a hand pump. Years ago I bought a VC Valiant off an Uncle's estate. The car was around 10 years old with something like 12,000 miles on the clock. He'd had the original cross ply tubeless tyres replaced with tube type Michelins, because his local tyre man (who was a mate) had told him they were the best. He never drove over 80k (50mph)... I kid you not. Collected the car and headed for home (which was 180km away) at the normal speed (since the tyres looked as new... as did the rest of the car). Got about 60km down the gravel track when a front tyre blew (at around 80mph, by the VC's speedo). Counted the lucky stars, fitted the spare and had a very slow trip home. Demounted the remaining tyres next morning and every tube was creased! It's also the last time I ever drove a car at speed with tubes I didn't fit myself. With the possible exception of split rims, failing to double inflate tubes is a sure recipe for disaster (but try convincing a tyre fitter). As for the ones who put tubes in tubeless tyres... they should re-introduce the death penalty! ;-) SignatureJohn H > >Yeah,..those were the days, most guys used to think you're nuts for doing it > >yourself :-)..now my back is a basket-case and I've no-show of doing tyre [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > fitter). As for the ones who put tubes in tubeless tyres... they > should re-introduce the death penalty! ;-) You mean where the tube gets caught between the bead and the rim or simply the tube is too big? I must admit I fitted tubes to tubeless tyres,..but I always indicated such when I bought them,..so maybe they gave me a tube which was smaller to compenate for thicker walls of the tyre,..is that what you mean, John? Jason >> With the possible exception of split rims, failing to double inflate >> tubes is a sure recipe for disaster (but try convincing a tyre [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >which was smaller to compenate for thicker walls of the tyre,..is that what >you mean, John? More often than not a new tube will crease if it's not double inflated, presumably because parts of the tube grip the tyre wall before it's become evenly distributed. Once it's been run that way you'll find dark patches (where part of the tube hasn't been contacting the tyre) or distinct crease marks (where part of the tube has folded). At which point the only safe place is in the bin, because it'll almost certainly fail at temperatures commonly encountered at highway speeds, or under heavy load, if it's re-used. In many instances it'll fail well before you get the chance to re-use it. For any otherwise sound tube that's being re-used creasing isn't just a possibility... it's a dead cert if it isn't double inflated (because the tube will have stretched). In the days before synthetic rubber became universal it was also standard practice to use french chalk (talc) to allow the tube to spread itself evenly, but hardly anyone does nowadays and it's probably not desirable with radials (which rely on some degree of tube adhesion to work properly). I've got nothing against re-using tubes so long as they're fitted properly (ie double inflated) and haven't been previously creased. Long experience has been that most of ones I didn't previously fit myself end up in the bin, almost all of the ones I've fitted don't. The biggest problem with running tubes in present day tyres is that the available tube sizes don't match the tyre profiles... ie no matter how much care you take with the fitting it's still a disaster waiting to happen. SignatureJohn H > With the possible exception of split rims, failing to double inflate > tubes is a sure recipe for disaster (but try convincing a tyre > fitter). What exactly do you mean by this? double inflate? I'm sure it's a language thing at my end, not a new technique, but just incase. > As for the ones who put tubes in tubeless tyres... they > should re-introduce the death penalty! ;-) works for me. SignatureJohn McKenzie tosspam@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@aol.com vice.president@whitehouse.gov president@whitehouse.gov sweep.day@accc.gov.au uce@ftc.gov admin@loopback abuse@iprimus.com.au If you didn't know it was wrong,why did you cover it up? abuse@msn.com $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost root@mailloop.com abuse@federalpolice.gov.au fraudinfo@psinet.com abuse@cia.gov $USER@localhost abuse@sprint.com abuse@fbi.gov abuse@asio.gov.au $LOGIN@localhost >John_H wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >What exactly do you mean by this? double inflate? 1) Inflate until the bead is fully seated. 2) Remove valve and deflate. 3) Re-inflate to correct pressure. >I'm sure it's a language thing at my end, not a new technique, but just >incase. Tyre fitters' language where I am... most of whom only do it under sufferance. AFAIK the technique's been around for as long as pneumatic tyres. :) SignatureJohn H > What exactly do you mean by this? double inflate? I think he means putting enough air into the tube to keep it in shape when putting it inside the trye, and then inflating it to the proper pressure once it is. It guards against the tube folding over on itself or getting pinched. > works for me. I must admit that I've fitted tubes to tubeless tyres a number of times, and never had the slightest trouble with it. -- Regards, Noddy. >> What exactly do you mean by this? double inflate? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. It's written on the instructions that come with tubes. I know, I shouldn't read instructions. It just proves I'm not a real man. .... Sob ;( >> Yeah,..those were the days, most guys used to think you're nuts for doing it >> yourself :-)..now my back is a basket-case and I've no-show of doing tyre [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > fitter). As for the ones who put tubes in tubeless tyres... they > should re-introduce the death penalty! ;-) Not only did I ALWAYS "double inflate" as you do, I ALWAYS used to inflate the tube before installing THEN in situ to a comfortable (low) pressure as I fitted it before the final closing of the bead over the rim. This gave the best possible chance of a crease-free installation. > Have a good look and see if there's 'Kinsman' placard on it somewhere. > If there is it'll also be the best pump you're ever likely to use. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > John H John, I've been over the thing ++thoroughly with degreaser and a toothbrush, only thing I can find is the letters 'LR' ~ 3 mm high on the top of the pump cylinder base. The 'Vauxhall' logo has an upper-case V with the rest in lower case, with a stroke looping to the left out of the top of the V then turning right to form a stroke over the top of 'auxhal' and finishing at the first 'l'. This might give a clue to its vintage. There's some evidence of hand-finishing (file marks) on the pivot of the bronze top of the pump assy. I'm starting to think 1920's or before. John >I've been over the thing ++thoroughly with degreaser and a toothbrush, >only thing I can find is the letters 'LR' ~ 3 mm high on the top of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >'auxhal' and finishing at the first 'l'. This might give a clue to its >vintage. >There's some evidence of hand-finishing (file marks) on the pivot of >the bronze top of the pump assy. I'm starting to think 1920's or >before. Are you familiar with Vauxhall's history by any chance? The original Luton firm crashed around 1926, and were acquired by GM. First mass produced GM Vauxhalls were sold in 1932, with a few unfinished cars being completed after the GM takeover, as well as an interim model (Vauxhall 20/60). In its heyday Vauxhall's main competitor was Bentley. Bentley crashed at around the same time, for similar reasons, and was taken over by RR. The 1916 Vauxhall 30/98 was supposedly sold with guaranteed top speed of 100mph. Last 30/98 left the factory in 1927 (and was a considerable improvement over the 1916 model). So, if it's from a 1920's Vauxhall, or earlier, you've got a piece of motoring history. I've long since sold mine -- having once owned the very same car that was shown at Earls Court in 1927 (it was an 'R' Type 20/60). The logo you describe certainly goes back to the 1920's, but I'm not sure if GM carried it on.... http://www.30-98.com/book1.html SignatureJohn H > >I've been over the thing ++thoroughly with degreaser and a toothbrush, > >only thing I can find is the letters 'LR' ~ 3 mm high on the top of [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > John H Thanks John, I was slightly acquainted with Vauxhall's history, having once owned a 1960 Vauxhall Cresta - this was '66 and the thing was acquired for peanuts (this is in Canada). I don't know if they were all like it, but it had a tendency to go out of control if reversed at any speed. Looking at Vauxhall's history, I see they go back to the 1850's, and were the Vauxhall Iron Works in 1905. The logo on my pump is a simplified ver. of that shown on the 30-98 cover in that the horizontal line is dead straight. I think I'd describe the font as being very similar to Britannic Bold. For those of you still unclear as to the application of aluminium in this pump, the operating levers and mounting frame are Al bar stock, the cylinder is a copper-plated steel tube, the pump head and base/ valve ass'y are bronze castings and the pedal is cast iron. John |
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