Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / June 2007
bad fuel part 2
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Adam B****** - 27 Jun 2007 11:55 GMT Hi all,
on sunday filled up with petrol from a mobil store in erina. no more than 3 minutes up the road the car started losing power and had no oomph.
rang up mobil who denied being the store... rang up later in the day and he finally took my details down.
mobil claims have "assessed the situation" and are ruling in favour of themselves and that its my problem and i should fix my car myself.
mechanic charged me $380 to drain the tank 2 times (water aswell as dirt in the petrol) and a new filter.
still drives with alot of flat spots.
$400est to recondition the injectors to make sure they are not clogged or rusted from the water.
where am i left in this situation?
they are having another meeting tomorrow about this as im not satisified with the outcome and expenses
if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court?
Blue Heeler - 27 Jun 2007 12:11 GMT > if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court? Not unless you or your significant other is a lawyer.
On the other hand, the small claims tribunal, or whatever it is called where you live, beckons.
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Toby_Ponsenby - 27 Jun 2007 14:54 GMT >> if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court? > > Not unless you or your significant other is a lawyer. > > On the other hand, the small claims tribunal, or whatever it is called > where you live, beckons. Hmm, some ideas.
You need a document from your mechanic, detailing what he found, how he fixed it and remedial action needed into the future. AND what his qualifications, and experience level actually is. You'll need a document yourself detailing time expenditure and inconvenience matters - and that sounds significant already. Both need to be signed in the presence of a JP or what ever passes for that in your part of the world. A Stat Dec will do the trick, but better to try for an affidavit - they're specially for Courts to play with. You'll need to detail the initial refusal, the talk of 'meetings' which the baddies may get to prove actually (didn't) happen. ie, set them up to force them to lie to the tribunal, and hope like hell they'll trip themselves up. With any luck, they'll send a junior shyster to the case, and they may well cock it up if your groundwork can force them to prove stuff happened which probably didn't, or at least that they can't prove did.
Then. Tell the mobil mob what you've got, and ask if anyone else has had problems with fuel from the outlet you copped the swill from, because you'd of course like to compare notes because you figure you'd hate to be mistaken in thinking you were the only one with a problem... Only reasonable. Make damm sure they are convinced you are going to seek that out whether they tell you anything or not - if necessary by paying for a public notice in the biggest selling newspaper in the area.This *should* get the OilCo's full attention - because they know that others that have not had a shot at them on the matter will be following you when you do - IF the others have you as a leader. For all you know, there may be others involved already - the OilCo will NOT tell you that. in which case, you're a follower - but nonetheless no less dangerous to their bullshit good name. But hopefully small claims cases will tell the story. Do not, yet, mention so-called current affairs shows. The 'sensational' value for them is where small claims supports Big Business against the little man on a slow news day, of course. That value has to exceed the value of the advertising placed by the villain of the piece. If you do later go that way, check the TV for a while and figure out which station gets less revenue from the baddies. That'll be the one to seek help from;-) Tell the OilCo people this is their last chance before the whole shootin match is sent off to small claims.
And just then do it. No matter what they say. Fast. Small Claims are egotistical enough to believe they can only solve claims that the consumer has tried quite hard with first. They'll want evidence of that. It's their Face, you see. Do NOT wait from any OilCo bullshit referrals to head office or whatever they try on - because justice delayed...etc. Besides, it's a fight - whether you think so or not. Ferinstance, ever seen a boxer give their opponent a few minutes to recover during a round?
Anyhow, then you sit back and wait for a result.
Remember to record everything that happens, including the time you spend on the matter. Every second. It will be needed later, because you're going to ask for consideration of that. if the car needs attention during this period, get it documented and make sure you commmunicate that in writing to both the OilCo and the claims mob. The bill/claim is growing as time goes on, you see.
That initial denial is the key. Dead standard procedure, I'd say. The idea is to throw you off the trail by making you think you're the only one who got bad fuel, because they initially won't entertain the possibility that it happened at all. So you were being worked over, there.Natch;-)
Oh, and then there's the recent wet weather/flooding in that area? Not a bad out to use for the baddies - but they shouldn't get that opportunity until things get really down and dirty. IOW, don't venture that at all - it's 'their' out that avoids considerations of shite business practice, and they're more likely to volunteer to pay out if think their face is intact.
Might as well properly intimidate the opposition: Get an inspector to go check the fuel at the outlet as soon as you can manage it. Hope like hell your muddied up fuel filter is available as evidence. Was the mechanic smart enough to put some of the goop from your fuel tank in a jam jar? Can the inspector have some of that if he asks?
HTH
One last thing. Corporations think nothing of spending shitloads of money on matters like this. Make sure round 1 is the one they're stopped on. Go for their balls from the outset. A bit like contesting speeding fines - you simply have to smash them up in the free court. After that it all starts to cost you money you don't have, because YOU don't have institutional shareholders who don't give a rats arse about the morals of any given situation.
Wouldn't it be a good thing if they simply paid up right now happening on the face-saving rain thing as their get-out clause:-) __
Toby
Jason James - 27 Jun 2007 20:00 GMT > >> if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court? > > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > Wouldn't it be a good thing if they simply paid up right now happening on > the face-saving rain thing as their get-out clause:-) I like your style Toby,..some excellent advice there. Who hasn't been done-over at some stage? A good many of us. I was charged back in '75 $350 for a noisy gearbox bearing in a Fiat 125. Turned out they all made the same noise in neutral,..all the gear-chatter etc,..tho other manuals trans since were not that noisey. Anyway, the price was so high, the mechanic at work said I'd been done. Fronted the dealership (they sold mostly expensive ag-eqwuipment) and they backed down claiming the bundy machine was crook !! Took $100 off it without a complaint, Bastards.The owner's missus did the charging,..and she sat right next to the owner/hubby who over-saw *everything*,..bundy f.ck-up my arse. Jason
Jason
Cyborg 0091 - 27 Jun 2007 12:43 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court? Sucked in......
Why on earth did you go back to the same servo or servo company,to prove a point That is rediculas,I have to say. You have cost yourself money and time by not using your brains,now cost yourself time and headache in tring to recover costs.
where I live $100k comp. could not pay for that hassle.
You think you have problems,you have not owned a rotary engine. I could go to any servo and get blocked jets and it still happens today on occasions.
bp got the name bad petrol once for 6 years it lasted. Common sense at the time and local chatter said don't go near them unless your jets are the size of a drinking straw and you compression ratio is lower than 7:1
You went back to the same company or servo,that is insane.
Its like bying a car people claim as a lemon then wondering why it dose not go.
David Z - 27 Jun 2007 18:17 GMT Hey Cyborg is it true they've started introducing unleaded petrol into Tasmania?
>> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Its like bying a car people claim as a lemon then wondering why it dose > not go. Cyborg 0091 - 27 Jun 2007 19:24 GMT > Hey Cyborg is it true they've started introducing unleaded petrol into > Tasmania? [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >>Its like bying a car people claim as a lemon then wondering why it dose >>not go. Yeah I think so,I recall about 20 years ago only one bowser,not long later they had two,no one ever used the unleaded bowser,well sales were low,untill unleaded only was put on some fuel lids. Some commodore drivers used to use unleaed,normally only werid towny types,mosted super right till the VL and even then. Even used to run the V8 Ford flathead on super,it used to love it.
Mike - 28 Jun 2007 05:07 GMT >Hi all, > >on sunday filled up with petrol from a mobil store in erina. no more than 3 >minutes up the road the car started losing power and had no oomph. Generally I've found BP or Shell to be the best, with Caltex falling behind.
I have found a definite correlation with Caltex making my engine miss and splutter oddly. Running it down to almost empty then going to the busiest Shell has fixed it like chalk and cheese !
BP on country runs also proved better than Caltex and by a slim margin Mobil, not had much bad here in Perth re Mobil but they are not on my normal route so its mostly Shell these days.
I notice Shell has signs up on some bowsers re a new formula for better economy, isnt that just changing the mix so its more volatile in Winter ?
Curious how much of a change there is between the Summer and Winter mixes over here.
In Europe I am told its a pretty dramatic change in ratios of the various components in the fuel,
 Signature Regards Mike * VK/VL Commodore FuseRails that wont warp or melt with fuse failure indication and now with auto 10-15 min timer for engine illumination option. * VN, VP, VR Models with relay holder in progress. * Twin Tyres to suit most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars http://niche.iinet.net.au
John_H - 28 Jun 2007 06:38 GMT >I have found a definite correlation with Caltex making my engine miss and >splutter oddly. Running it down to almost empty then going to the busiest >Shell has fixed it like chalk and cheese ! Pity it isn't likely to work for me... mainly because the outlets for both of those get their stock from the same bulk terminal where I am. Same stuff, only a different truck delivers it!
Similar reciprocal arrangements between the various oil companies apply in most parts of Australia. Dunno specifically about Perth, but I'd be surprised if most of your fuel wasn't the stuff that comes from Kwinana.
Of course the hygiene that's likely to apply to the individual underground storage facilities at the outlets for the various brands is something else again. :)
 Signature John H
Kev - 28 Jun 2007 21:09 GMT >> I have found a definite correlation with Caltex making my engine miss and >> splutter oddly. Running it down to almost empty then going to the busiest [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > underground storage facilities at the outlets for the various brands > is something else again. :) Lots of people have no idea about where their petrol comes from most of the fuel terminals have interconnecting pipelines that transfer fuel between the terminals, usually the Unleaded is a common product, who ever has the main refinery for Unleaded supplies most of the other brands
Diesel can also be a shared product but mostly not it's the PULP and E10 fuels that are brand specific
and the new Shell signs on their pumps read it again it will probably say "E10 Unleaded with Economy Formula" and it's an E10 Ethanol fuel normal unleaded has not changed at Shell
Kev
John_H - 29 Jun 2007 01:29 GMT >Lots of people have no idea about where their petrol comes from >most of the fuel terminals have interconnecting pipelines that transfer >fuel between the terminals, usually the Unleaded is a common product, >who ever has the main refinery for Unleaded supplies most of the other >brands If re-badged cars still manage to fool a lot people (and, believe me, they do) then it probably didn't ought come as any surprise that it also works for fuel.
It's not often that you come across a comprehensive road test that finds 'em to be chalk and cheese though! ;-)
 Signature John H
Scotty - 28 Jun 2007 09:00 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > if again they say its not their problem, do i take them to court? You stand outside the servo with a big sign asking if anyone else has had the same issue with water in the fuel.
Even one other person says yes and then get ya lawyer involved.
If noone else says yes then it may be your cars issue.
Daryl Walford - 28 Jun 2007 10:38 GMT >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > If noone else says yes then it may be your cars issue. Seems customer service is a thing of the past. Many years ago when I was a courier I used to fill up my van everyday at the same servo, the owner approached me and asked if I had had a problem with my LPG convertor, I said I had but I had fixed it myself the previous day. He said he must have had a bad batch of gas and offered to pay for any repairs, I wouldn't expect too many servo operators would be as honest these days which is a very sad thing.
Daryl
atec77 - 28 Jun 2007 11:10 GMT >>> Hi all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Daryl He wasa real businees person not a fly by nighter now how mauch a week/month year did you spend ?
Scotty - 28 Jun 2007 11:30 GMT >>>> Hi all, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > He wasa real businees person not a fly by nighter > now how mauch a week/month year did you spend ? Yeah my ole man used to own/run a servo/workshop and when one of his best customers came in with his newly rebuilt cruise boat and filled noone thought anything of it. That night he had a phone call saying that the boat had broken down in the harbour with water in the fuel. The ole man poured from the same pump a 5 litre glass container full of fuel and waited to see it water separated by the morning. Once the tanks on the boat were drained and refilled the motors ran fine. Until the next harbour cruise where they once again broke down several times with a full boat.
Once again they came back and said there's water in the fuel. The ole man got independent testing at his own cost and they found that the water was salt water and on investigation they found that the filler pipes at full throttle were sucking in water from the harbour. So the ole mans hundreds of dollars of testing refilling etc was for someone else's fault. The boat operator felt like sh.t so paid him back but I'm 99% sure that no fuel company owned servo would even start to help a client unless they bought a million litres a year.
Daryl Walford - 28 Jun 2007 13:34 GMT >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > company owned servo would even start to help a client unless they bought a > million litres a year. Good operators do exist but they are getting more difficult to find everyday and finding customers that will also do the right thing is even more difficult. IMO its a good idea to form a good business relationship with other business's I deal with, many years ago we had fuel shortages and occasional rationing when there was industrial action by tankers drivers or some other problem but because I was a good customer I could get fuel wherever I needed it, in return I used to keep an eye on prices all over Melb and let the servo owner know what others were charging so he could be competitive.
Daryl
Cyborg 0901 - 29 Jun 2007 16:12 GMT >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > Daryl Its pretty common if one can find a owner opperated servo. Alot will do a deal for you if you bye alot etc. 2c litre off or more. Service is comming back into alot of the small ones,which is great to see.window wash,etc.
These self serve drive thoughs with camera's are usless,don't even give a tax invoice unless asked,it gets so anoying,I took down as a regular about $5k one year,worth of fuel without looking the recipts to see if they had an ABN on them,taking they did,f.ck I got a shock when I went to claim,ended up having to pay income tax on it,geez it pissed me,could have claimed it,I guess,well an accountant would of,I don't need an audit however. maybe if over $500 odd dollar purchase....beats me.
Adam will have to claim court,$1000 is alot to loose on a failing experiment,no idea why he did it.
Daryl Walford - 28 Jun 2007 13:24 GMT >>>> Hi all, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > He wasa real businees person not a fly by nighter > now how mauch a week/month year did you spend ? I did fill up at least 5 days per week but it was LPG and it was very cheap in the late 80's early 90's, 15cpl was common and I used about 55ltrs per day. The owner had 3 Shell servo's in the area till Shell decided to take them over and run them themselves, the same bloke now runs a tyre store and AFAIK also owns the car wash next door, he also opened the Autobarn store but sold out a year or so later. He has a reputation for looking after his customers but he also is known for charging top dollar so he doesn't get a lot of my business these days.
Daryl
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