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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / February 2008Ok - Explain this.....
Nissan VG30e 6cyl. High miles - 283,000, 20 years old. 2 weeks ago - replaced all 6 plugs, fuel/air filter. 2 days ago - started missing at idle and constant throttle BUT - runs perfectly on all 6 whilst accelerating. WTF? -- > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > WTF? Sounds like a plug lead. Daryl > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > WTF? Check the Injectors. I've had two in the last 12 months do *exactly* as you've described and it turned out to be an injector that was opening intermittently. -- Regards, Noddy. > > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I've had two in the last 12 months do exactly as you've described and > it turned out to be an injector that was opening intermittently. Is there actually a way to get the injectors out of the poxy thing without removing the inlet manifold? It did have new/refurb injectors a little over a year ago. -- > Is there actually a way to get the injectors out of the poxy thing > without removing the inlet manifold? Sadly no, but it's not as bad as some. Removing the top half of the manifold allows enough access to get them out. > It did have new/refurb injectors a little over a year ago. Oh, okay. Possibly something else then, but it was interesting in my case that I had two with exactly the same problem (both with intermittent injectors on number 3 cylinder). Bastard of a problem to locate as there was no pattern to it other than what you described. Idle & steady rpm miss with no problems under acceleration. The only thing I can add is that the miss wasn't present most of the time until the engines had warmed to normal operating temperature in these two particular cases. Not the easiest things to substitute with a cheap known good injector either, as they have an unusual side entry fuel port unfortunately. Short of checking the basic electrical I'd still be looking to see if an injector is playing up. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Is there actually a way to get the injectors out of the poxy thing >> without removing the inlet manifold? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Short of checking the basic electrical I'd still be looking to see if an > injector is playing up. My 'usual'.. If the thing has one (or two) cold start injectors, have a very good look at them before going further. They can't stay mostly closed forever, and will produce interesting effects like you have if they get the dribbles.  SignatureToby >Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >BUT - runs perfectly on all 6 whilst accelerating. Inlet air leak or AFM issue? Just a wild guess. > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > WTF? Air flow meter, or maybe an air leak. Did you accidentally knock a hose loose when you changed the plugs? > > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Air flow meter, or maybe an air leak. Did you accidentally knock a > hose loose when you changed the plugs? I'll double check - the mongrel ran like a waterbury watch all last week and during a fast trip down to Brisbane last Friday and an even faster trip north on Tuesday morning. I will also check the AFM as reading the net indicates that a good cleanup there can sometimes cure all kinds of weirdness. Sadly at this stage I'm going with electrical plug lead/injector atm because what I didn't say was that it had a miss all the time two weeks ago which went away after the plug change. No.3 plug was black and oily (it blows smoke occasionally) whereas the other 5 were in pretty good nick for plugs that were probably 10 years old. I think I'll pull no.3 plug again and have a look. Of course this bastard of an engine has the world's wierdest plug leads (number 3 plug cap is about a foot long) and I suspect that a new set of leads will cost more than the car is worth - never mind the cost of an injector - which Noddy says is a 'special" anyway.... General question to all - what should I expect to pay for an injector? Is the best theory to simply pull them all and hand to someone to test? -- >> > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I will also check the AFM as reading the net indicates that a good > cleanup there can sometimes cure all kinds of weirdness. Yep. > Sadly at this stage I'm going with electrical plug lead/injector atm > because what I didn't say was that it had a miss all the time two weeks > ago which went away after the plug change. No.3 plug was black and oily > (it blows smoke occasionally) whereas the other 5 were in pretty good > nick for plugs that were probably 10 years old. That sounds like a failed injector to be honest, but checking the lead to confirm that it isn't causing the problem is fairly trivial. > I think I'll pull no.3 plug again and have a look. Of course this > bastard of an engine has the world's wierdest plug leads (number 3 plug > cap is about a foot long) and I suspect that a new set of leads will > cost more than the car is worth - never mind the cost of an injector - > which Noddy says is a 'special" anyway.... Test the resistance of the lead(s) with the ohmmeter set to the K ohms range which should be possible without having to remove it. If it's any more then around 10-15Kohms for the longest ones then it's suspect. > General question to all - what should I expect to pay for an injector? $25 each and up, depending on how common it is. Ebay sometimes has cheap ones but they may come only as a set. Just a quick look reveals that there is a supplier in the US that wants $35 US per injector plus postage. http://tinyurl.com/ysdqgn > Is the best theory to simply pull them all and hand to someone to test? Many have a little filter basket in them on the fuel inlet side which can block up and cause problems, something that you could possibly rectify yourself but sending them off to an injector mob for testing shouldn't cost too much. On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 05:09:43 +0900, "Klompmeester" >> I think I'll pull no.3 plug again and have a look. Of course this >> bastard of an engine has the world's wierdest plug leads (number 3 plug >> cap is about a foot long) and I suspect that a new set of leads will [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >which should be possible without having to remove it. If it's any more then >around 10-15Kohms for the longest ones then it's suspect. However it may still have a problem with the lead even though the resistance is good. Check the tube that fits onto the plug. If there are any light grey marks or cracks on the tube then the lead is stuffed. These tubes wear out from the inside ( the terminal starts to rust) and start to break down. Usually on idle or acceleration the car will have a slight miss which gets worse. Another way to check the lead is have the car running and pull the tube off the spark plug. If the current in the lead starts to splatter around the tube or in some circumstances you may see the current coming out the side of the tube, the tube is stuffed. Bob On Feb 8, 10:08 am, b...@magnecor.com.au.invalid wrote: > On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 05:09:43 +0900, "Klompmeester" >> I think I'll pull > no.3 plug again and have a look. Of course this [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > around the tube or in some circumstances you may see the current > coming out the side of the tube, the tube is stuffed. NGK plugs seem to not like being in a puddle of water around them, the water seeps into them resulting in around 30K ohms resistance. That is a show stopper. > General question to all - what should I expect to pay for an injector? > Is the best theory to simply pull them all and hand to someone to test? I paid 120 bucks each for the two I replaced a few months back, and other than applying voltage to the terminals to tell if they're opening or not there's not a lot of testing you can do at home without proper gear. -- Regards, Noddy. > I paid 120 bucks each for the two I replaced a few months back, and > other than applying voltage to the terminals to tell if they're > opening or not there's not a lot of testing you can do at home > without proper gear. Halfway up the big hill this afternoon, grinding along in 2nd gear. 90kph and WOT (due to only running on 5 and dragging a dead pot) it started surging. Shortly after it was intermittent on 6 and a few kilometers later was running on 6 with the occasional stumble. By the time I got home it was purring. Now I well realise that this is a temporary reprieve at best, but I had a look at the job of getting to the injectors this morning, then had a look at the general condition of the thing - when it stuffs up again I shall simply drive it on 5 and pay the extra fuel (and hope nobody dobs me in for the smoke signals). I'm off back north at the end of March and was never intending to take it with me - if I get another months commuting out of it - Bargain! Otoh, if it sh.ts itself totally. I'll be annoyed at having to make other arrangments to get to home/work and at having to dispose of the corpse - nothing more. -- > Otoh, if it sh.ts itself totally. I'll be annoyed at having to make > other arrangments to get to home/work and at having to dispose of the > corpse - nothing more. Shame really as they're a good engine *when* they're running okay. At the very least you'll get 150 bucks or so for the hulk from a cart away bloke. -- Regards, Noddy. > > Otoh, if it sh.ts itself totally. I'll be annoyed at having to make > > other arrangments to get to home/work and at having to dispose of > > the corpse - nothing more. > > Shame really as they're a good engine when they're running okay. I agree. But this one has 270,000+ km on it and I suspect it has been flogged unmercifully for nearly all of them - every bush in the suspension needs replacing, although none are "bad" - there is not a straight panel on it, the paintwork is shot, the driver's door has begun to rip out the hinge mounts etc. etc. It was worth the $500 I paid for it a year ago - but at the end of the day it is a 20 year old truck and simply not worth fixing the engine whose problems don't stop with a crook injector, stuffed suspension, stuffed paint and "more hits than elvis" panels. In terms of what it has cost me - a timing belt, a set of hoses,belts, a few filters it has been terrific - but i can't see the value of tipping money into it. -- > > > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > > > WTF? One of the things which can cause rough running as idle, but clear under load, is incorrect ignition timing and as allready mentioned, an airleak which at idle is a significant part of the intake charge, especially near one cylinder or more. If the ignition-timing is failing to advance properly, some backyarders advance it by hand (assuming it has a dizzy) which stuffs up the idle setting, hence rough idling. If there was a significant airleak at the manifold, only the nearest cylinders will be effected. Engines running lean (especially on all cylinders) speed up their idle, sometimes with missing, sometimes not. The IAC maybe pulling it back to correct speed. Jason cloged or faulty injectors or a air/exaust sen > Nissan VG30e 6cyl. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > WTF? |
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