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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / May 2008Automotive question #3
The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume?  SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au On May 29, 10:13 am, "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote: > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? This is Australia, tell the boss it's not relevant as we don't live in -20C temps :-) It would depend on the seat. Check the fuse rating for it to get an idea on what power it draws (better yet put multimeter set to Amp reading in there instead of fuse), put a thermo on the seat to try it out would prolly be the most accurate answers. > On May 29, 10:13 am, "Trevor Wilson" > <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This is Australia, tell the boss it's not relevant as we don't > live in -20C temps :-) **That's why I'm asking the question. I know that some cars do have them, but I have no experience with them. > It would depend on the seat. Check the fuse rating for it to > get an idea on what power it draws (better yet put multimeter > set to Amp reading in there instead of fuse), put a thermo on > the seat to try it out would prolly be the most accurate answers. **Or I could ask someone who knows about them. I'm guessing that someone on this group has a vehicle that has them, or services cars that have them. SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au > **Or I could ask someone who knows about them. I'm guessing that someone > on this group has a vehicle that has them, or services cars that have > them. I've driven a car that had them (A Benz with heated leather seats) and they took quite a while to heat up. In excess of half an hour if I remember correctly, and they only ever *just* got warm not hot, and by the time they did your body had already sucked up most of the cold and warmed the seat up nicely anyway. May be okay in parts of Europe where it gets to well below zero and people warm their cars up for some time before they drive them, but a pretty useless gizmo in this country in my opinion, even in cold Melbourne. Heated mirrors and windows, sure, but heated seats I can happily live without. I'd *much* rather have a sheepskin cover. -- Regards, Noddy. >> **Or I could ask someone who knows about them. I'm guessing that someone >> on this group has a vehicle that has them, or services cars that have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > time they did your body had already sucked up most of the cold and warmed > the seat up nicely anyway. **Thanks Nods. That's what I figured. They really need to be switched on BEFORE you get in the car. > May be okay in parts of Europe where it gets to well below zero and people > warm their cars up for some time before they drive them, but a pretty [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'd *much* rather have a sheepskin cover. **I dumped mine. Although Commodore seats are not real good, they're really bad when you stick sheepskin covers on them. For the record: I had a sit in the seat of one of those Honda Civic Type R last week. Sweet seats. The way a car seat should be, IMO. SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? If your boss is so concerned with sitting his backside on a cold seat, then tell him to get the hot little blonde tart from the office to sit on it for a few minutes first, or get her to sit next to him and he will not notice how cold the seat is >> The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't >> know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it for a few minutes first, > or get her to sit next to him and he will not notice how cold the seat is **The "boss" is She Who Must Be Obeyed. She asked the question this morning, when we hopped into the car at 6:00AM and sat on the cold seats. She then mused about the usefulness of heated seats, given that they're cold when you first sit in them. This prompted further questions, like: * Can the seats be pre-heated, before hopping in the car? * What's the point, if they can't be pre-heated, given that the body heat warms the seats anyway? SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au > * Can the seats be pre-heated, before hopping in the car? They can, but the car needs to be configured for it. In some parts of the world where it gets *really* cold (and that doesn't include this country unless you live in Ballarat), cars have small accessory petrol engines designed to be run and heat the cooling system so when you jump in your car first thing in the morning the engine is warm, and so is the heater. Others can be plugged into the mains to do the same thing with electirc heating elements fitted to the engine block to heat the coolant, and they can also power things like seat, mirror and window heaters. Then again others have remote start facilites so the car can be programmed to start half an hour before you want to use it, and everything is nice & toasty when you get into it. > * What's the point, if they can't be pre-heated, given that the body heat > warms the seats anyway? Very little. A perfect example of why leather seats are nothing other than a pain in the arse. -- Regards, Noddy. >> * Can the seats be pre-heated, before hopping in the car? >They can, but the car needs to be configured for it. >In some parts of the world where it gets *really* cold (and that >doesn't include this country unless you live in Ballarat), cars >have small accessory petrol engines designed to be run and heat the >cooling system so when you Engines? They're the expensive ones. Most are boilers. They usually pre-heat the coolant. Some have a coolant circulation pump (electric) to speed up the process. Cars with integrated pre-heating may also run the ventilation (on re-circulation) at low speed which makes it easier to remove the ice from the front and back windows before driving off. Some others heat only the air. They are typically after-market systems (or those for air-cooled engines). Suffice to say that you don't want a weak battery. Unless you've invested heavily in the tiny-engined heater type, which requires no auxiliary electricty supply. >Then again others have remote start facilites so the car can be >programmed to start half an hour before you want to use it, and >everything is nice & toasty when you get into it. That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. Webasto make some retro-fit and OE systems that burn either diesel or petrol and won't flatten your battery. Heat output is quite intense, around 3kW, depending on version. Cost fitted is of the order of $2500 in Germany, though it seems that you can pick up a complete, new retrofit kit on eBay Germany for less than $800. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Great minds discuss ideas; X against HTML mail | Average minds discuss events; / \ and postings | Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt On Thu, 29 May 2008 11:56:51 +0800, Bernd Felsche >Most are boilers..... Especially the hot little blonde tart from the office..... > That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it > from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. If you have no other option it's the best thing to do. Temperature rises faster at idle than it does at 3000rpm. -- Regards, Noddy. > > That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it > > from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. > > If you have no other option it's the best thing to do. > > Temperature rises faster at idle than it does at 3000rpm. On a diesel that could be a bit different. "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:da68ad7d-3969-431c-9142- > On a diesel that could be a bit different. Why would it be? An engine warms up quickest when the coolant is moving at it's slowest speed. -- Regards, Noddy. > "the_dawggie" <the_dawg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > An engine warms up quickest when the coolant is moving at it's slowest > speed. OK, but why would a diesel's coolant be moving slower at 3000 rpm (with the vehicle moving forwards through the air) than at idle? "GrassyNoel" <geracen@webace.com.au> wrote in message news:f28e67c9-3afc-4ade-a853- > OK, but why would a diesel's coolant be moving slower at 3000 rpm > (with the vehicle moving forwards through the air) than at idle? You got me. Why would it? -- Regards, Noddy. > > "the_dawggie" <the_dawg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > OK, but why would a diesel's coolant be moving slower at 3000 rpm > (with the vehicle moving forwards through the air) than at idle? It's quite simple when you think about it. They require a longer stroke than petrol engines. That requires a bit more time. I can put my hand on the exhaust at just about any time after starting it. > "the_dawggie" <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:da68ad7d-3969-431c-9142- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > An engine warms up quickest when the coolant is moving at it's slowest > speed. I could leave the DAF idling for 30mins without the temp gauge moving but drive it 2-3klms and the temp moved to normal very quickly. Daryl > I could leave the DAF idling for 30mins without the temp gauge moving > but drive it 2-3klms and the temp moved to normal very quickly. Maybe the computer thinks 'idling' = 'traffic' and opens the thermostat. >> I could leave the DAF idling for 30mins without the temp gauge moving >> but drive it 2-3klms and the temp moved to normal very quickly. >Maybe the computer thinks 'idling' =3D 'traffic' and opens the >thermostat. Unlikely. It's a diesel. It only burns enough fuel to idle the engine. Not sucking against a closed throttle. Also, the very high AFR (a lot of air; very little fuel) means that most of the heat of combustion will be absorbed by the exhaust gas and exit via the tailpipe. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Great minds discuss ideas; X against HTML mail | Average minds discuss events; / \ and postings | Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt >> I could leave the DAF idling for 30mins without the temp gauge moving >> but drive it 2-3klms and the temp moved to normal very quickly. > > Maybe the computer thinks 'idling' = 'traffic' and opens the > thermostat. I doubt it when the temp gauge hadn't moved. Daryl >An engine warms up quickest when the coolant is moving at it's slowest >speed. Only if there's zero load! Which is why it's better to move off (albeit gently) as soon as the engine runs smoothly. SignatureJohn H > That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it > from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. Care to elaborate on that? I'd like to know, because I've always started and let my engines warm up before driving away (if I'm not in a hurry). I thought I was doing the right thing? Speaking of cold weather: Thursday last week we had a cold snap, 0.4C at home. Not too bad I thought... Until I drove inland through Fingal - *very* foggy and rather stupidly I sprayed the windscreen with water, which instantly froze onto the windscreen. Then I had to stop and find something to scrape it off with. I later found out it was - 7C in Fingal at the time :) > Care to elaborate on that? I'd like to know, because I've always started > and let my engines warm up before driving away (if I'm not in a hurry). > I thought I was doing the right thing? You are basically, although these days with "modern" engines it's not such a big deal. Most engines warm up quite quickly at idle when cold as the water pump is turning at it's slowest possible speed preventing the coolant from "cooling" terribly well. Even with a closed thermostat coolant circulates around the engine, and the faster you move it the longer it'll take for the engine to get up to temperature. You can often see the same thing happen in reverse with a warm engine whereby it'll run cooler at higher rpm and start to heat up at idle where the water pump isn't spinning quite quick enough to get the coolant through the system to prevent the temperature from rising. Extended idle periods aren't a good idea, but it's a worse idea to start a freezing cold engine and rev the ring out of it without giving it a brief idling warm up before hand. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Care to elaborate on that? I'd like to know, because I've always started >> and let my engines warm up before driving away (if I'm not in a hurry). [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Extended idle periods aren't a good idea, Because of oil pressure, or something else? > but it's a worse idea to start a > freezing cold engine and rev the ring out of it without giving it a brief > idling warm up before hand. Heh, you should see my ex-neighbour down the road with his Merc sedan and Hilux ute. No matter the weather or how long its been sitting - turn her over and rev the f.ck outta it. And God have mercy on anyone in his vicinity on the road! He's a perfect argument for enforced driving tests for the elderly. > Because of oil pressure, or something else? Piston ring scuffing. Piston rings form a seal around the piston to stop compression pressure escaping past the piston and into the crankcase (and oil from the cylinder walls up into the combustion chamber), and to do that effectively they need to be pushed against the cylinder wall. The natural radial tension of most piston rings as fitted to their bores generally isn't enough (and with today's "low tension" rings it's worse) so most pistons are designed in such a way as to allow compression pressure get behind the ring and force it into the wall to help form the seal. At idle, this force isn't all that great, so the ring tends to scuff up against the cylinder wall rather than seal effectively against it and keep a nice mated surface between the two, and that has the effect of glazing the bores if left to go on for extended periods. Once that happens it makes achieving a good ring seal very difficult no matter how much pressure is used to push ring against the bore wall. The magic question is "How long does it take for that to happen?", and the real short not so magic answer is how long is a piece of string? If affects all engines differently, and some suffer from it quite quickly while others seem to go on for ages with no ill effects. I've seen old Holden Red Motors being used in industrial applications like forklifts and cement agitators where they spend *hours* idling away under no load and they last forever, whereas on the other hand I've seen more "modern" engines like a late model Ford Laser with a totally rooted ring seal after a couple of years because it's owner let it idle for 15 minutes every morning while he ate his breakfast. Most modern engines are warm enough after a minute or two of idling from cold to be driven normally, and doing this won't have any effect. > Heh, you should see my ex-neighbour down the road with his Merc sedan and > Hilux ute. No matter the weather or how long its been sitting - turn her > over and rev the f.ck outta it. > And God have mercy on anyone in his vicinity on the road! He's a perfect > argument for enforced driving tests for the elderly. Nasty. -- Regards, Noddy. Noddy wrote... > Extended idle periods aren't a good idea, but it's a worse idea to start a > freezing cold engine and rev the ring out of it without giving it a brief > idling warm up before hand. I tend to start the engine, let it run for say, 20-30 secs or so, then move off, but taking it easy, never going over 60 klicks til I get to the first traffic lights. There, I inevitably have to wait for the green arrow before I can proceed. So, by the time I hit the 80 kay section the heater's doing its job and the car's fully warmed. > I tend to start the engine, let it run for say, 20-30 secs or so, then > move off, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > job and > the car's fully warmed. That's about all anyone ever needs to do. -- Regards, Noddy. >> That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it >> from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. > > Care to elaborate on that? I'd like to know, because I've always started > and let my engines warm up before driving away (if I'm not in a hurry). > I thought I was doing the right thing? Depends on the ambient temp and how long you let it idle for, on a very cold day if the car was left outside then max 5 mins before driving. Daryl >>> That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it >>> from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Depends on the ambient temp and how long you let it idle for, on a very > cold day if the car was left outside then max 5 mins before driving. Hmm, occasionally I might let it idle for up to 10 minutes if I get distracted :) Whats the issue here oil or something else? >>>> That's a very nasty thing to do to an engine; effectively start it >>>> from cold and keep it on idle for a long time. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Hmm, occasionally I might let it idle for up to 10 minutes if I get > distracted :) Whats the issue here oil or something else? Waste of fuel for a start. It isn't as big an issue with modern fuel injected engines because they are less likely to over fuel but older engines can get too much fuel at idle which dilutes the engine oil. Also an engine warms up quicker under load and the sooner they get to operating temp the better. Daryl Noddy wrote... > In some parts of the world where it gets *really* cold (and that doesn't > include this country unless you live in Ballarat), cars have small accessory > petrol engines designed to be run and heat the cooling system so when you > jump in your car first thing in the morning the engine is warm, and so is Some places like New York, heated garages are the go, during winter. So, during the wakup, shower, breakfast and commute process the average NY'er who can afford it will never be in an environment that is less than or more than say, 22 degs C. I wonder how the f.ckers are gonna cope when reality finally catches up with them and energy costs rise to meet real world prices. SignatureTruth, Justice and the American way. Pick the odd one out... On May 29, 10:44 am, "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote: > >> The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > >> know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > * What's the point, if they can't be pre-heated, given that the body heat > warms the seats anyway? I'm confused. How can a cloth seat with padding be cold? Another idea - sheepskin seat covers. That would *have* to fix it. I seriously have never felt a need for seat heaters, and got into vehicles in fairly cold temperatures. Sure, might be urged to nudge the HVAC into warm mode once engine heats up a bit when in an area when there is snow about. The only way I can imagine seat warming or cooling is if your butt was naked and it was an old vinyl seat on a cold or hot day. >>> The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't >>> know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > She then mused about the usefulness of heated seats, given that they're > cold when you first sit in them. Oops, boo boo then again, I do know a few women who think they are blokes well, they do want everything that blokes have, their money, their house, their car, their 9" of pleasure This prompted further questions, like: > * Can the seats be pre-heated, before hopping in the car? > * What's the point, if they can't be pre-heated, given that the body heat > warms the seats anyway? On May 29, 10:44 am, "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote: > >> The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > >> know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > -- > Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au [Shameless plug follows] I've just had the rep from Waeco visit, and they do these heated seat covers that plug into your cigarette lighter. Are they good? *He* seems to think so. ;) Local Autobarn will be able to order 'em in if you like. Cheers, Steve [my views are my own, and not to be taken as reflecting Autobarn in any way.) >If your boss is so concerned with sitting his backside on a cold seat, > then tell him to get the hot little blonde tart from the office to sit on >it for a few minutes first, And don't forget to tell him it's much better to sniff the seat while it's still warm! SignatureJohn H > And don't forget to tell him it's much better to sniff the seat while > it's still warm! You're a sick c.nt, but I like your style :) -- Regards, Noddy. > >If your boss is so concerned with sitting his backside on a cold seat, > > then tell him to get the hot little blonde tart from the office to sit on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > John H Troy Buswell, come on down :) > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? The C06 Covette I drove in the states had them. They took about 5 minutes to get warm. f.cking lovely in winter as you can have the top down on a freezing cold day and still be toasty. Fraser >The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. Let the cat sleep on the seat overnight. > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? > > Trevor Wilson > www.rageaudio.com.au They take about 10minutes and about 15minutes to realise you mate has turned them on max without you knowing. > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? Depends on how much you fart. ;-) > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? Only car I've driven which had heated seats was an Astra convertible, they warmed up within a few minutes. The heated seats were worth having in a soft top because you can drive around on a cool day with the top down and still stay warm, on a car with a normal roof IMO they wouldn't be much value. Daryl > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? My Astra has them and they take a few minutes to warm up. As for power consumption, don't know and don't really care, as long as they work I'm happy :) Signaturea9x5l > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the heated seats of our Honda MDX s/r and baby Lexus, it takes about 1-2 minutes for the seats to heat up. -- That's.full.heat.setting. > The boss asked me how long it takes for heated seats to warm up. I don't > know. So, how long does it take? How much power do they consume? having driven a few vehicles with heated seats, the time depends on the manufacturer, The Mercedes seats took a few minutes for you to notice and they didn't get too hot The Mack Quantum seats took about 30 seconds and were just a touch too warm the Volvo seats heated up in about 10 seconds and by 30 seconds it was burning your arse The Iveco seats warmed up after about a minute and were ok temp wise the Scanias I drive now haven't got heated seats although they are an option but I can say that driving in winter with heated seats(even in QLD, and it gets to sub 0 temps up here at times too) is quite good, you don't need the vehicle heater on thus making you less drowsy while driving long distances(I use the heater for about 10 minutes before I stop for a quick snooze to help make me tired so I can get to sleep quicker) and they also help your back, after a long drive your back hasn't gone stiff they are a good option if you do a lot of driving and help if you have to do some sort of physical activity when you get out Kev |
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