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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / July 2008

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Who would be stupid enough to buy a hybrid POS?

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Ron - 25 Jul 2008 09:17 GMT
Reviews:

Q. Has anyone had any problems with their Toyota Prius?

A. You might want to do a search for unexplained acceleration problems

A. the batteries lose efficacy fast enough that your "savings "on gas
will be off set by there replacement cost..that is if there were savings
..the cost of the car it's self off set any real savings there could be .
Toyota has the most recalls of any manufacturer..and they won't recall
the tundra right now even tho they know it has a potentially deadly habit
of accelerating when the driver wants to stop...avoid Toyota at all costs
...don't be a sucker for some "green advertising "

A. The only potential problem I see is an intake valve. There is a vent
in the rear seat that goes directly into the battery. If it gets clogged,
it'll basically destroy the car. We're not even letting fat people sit in
that spot, because it's easy to inadvertently cover. The manual
recommends against hauling aquariums or other large water objects.

A. Andrea of Plano TX (7/8/03):
My complaints are numerous (2001 Toyota Prius):
1. Front end alignment -- cause unknown. Several alignments, still
doesn't track well.
2. Gas gauge/tank problems -- went from 45.0mg to 29.5 mpg - took several
trips to get the problem "solved" -- not sure that it is totally solved.
Consumption screen is screwy and so is the gas gauge. Also told car loses
gas mileage as they get older -- car was only a year or so old and a
Prius doesn't use gas when stopped.
3. Rack and pinion steering -- several trips to service before they
agreed there's a problem and fixed it.
4. 3rd set of tires -- 18,000, 36,000 and about 45,000 miles
5. Accelerator assembly quit in rush hour traffic -- fixed, took two
trips. There's still a noticeable drop in power, almost daily.

Most problems "fixed" but I don't trust this car nor do I trust Toyota of
Richardson Tex to fix my car. The second trip for the accelerator I was
told there was nothing wrong with the car, but the "sticky" place
disappeared after second trip. They didn't want to admit they were wrong.

A. Karen of Fairhope AL (07/16/08)
The 07 Toyota Prius stated 60 MPH for in town, and from the first tank, I
have averaged only 45 MPH. Why was Toyota not being honest about the MPH?
Did the EPA really change the way it rates MPH?

A. W of Anaheim CA (07/16/08)
Re: 2005 Prius purchased 4/30/05 Noise after shut-down or when brake is
depressed to start __________________________________________ On 7/11/08
we took the car to the dealer to have this problem investigated because
the noise continued intermittently for several hours the previous night.
As we left for the dealer, the ABS warning lights came on, but, we
experienced no problem with the brakes on the three mile drive. We were
told that the cause was the ABS actuator and it would cost $2600 to
repair. We were only 2-1/2 months out of warranty with only 32,016 miles
on the odometer - not the 36,000 that would put us out of warranty if the
time hadn't run out. We were stunned to have such an expensive repair on
such a new car. We immediately contacted Toyota Motor Sales. On reviewing
the service record, we found that we had had the car serviced for a
different complaint (an unexplained beeping when the brakes were applied)
in May 2007. The identical part had been replaced under warranty. The new
part was warranted for 1 year. Again we were out of warranty by a couple
of months and after only 13,000 miles of driving. Toyota Motor Sales
negotiated with our dealer and decided that between them they would cover
the $2000 cost of the part and we should pay $600 labor (estimated at
5.5Hrs.) to replace it. Checking on line indicates several cases of
failure of this part. However, many people may be experiencing problems
without realizing it because of the strange and unpredictable symptoms.
Toyota has published Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) BR001-07 that
describes the problem and instructs the service departments not to do
anything unless the customers complain. In our experience this would put
many of the complaints out of warranty.
________________________________________ Tires ___________ We are also
very unhappy with the the tires and/or the suspension system. We have
experienced excessive tire wear and after 32,000 miles we need a new set.

A. Allen of Bessemer MI (07/02/08)
While accellerating into traffic on US-2 WB from Country Club Road in
Gogebic County, Michigan, the throttle on my new Prius (4,000 miles)
stuck wide open. I was able to maintain 55 mph by sporadic breaking and
finally managed to brake to a stop. While the engine was in the
accellerating mode, I was unable to shift to neutral, shut the engine
off, or otherwise stop the vehicle. After I was finally able to brake to
a stop (with both electric and gas engines still drawing full power), the
engine did shut down for a few seconds and I was able to hit the power
button and shut the engine off. I thought, at this time, that whatever
was wrong would have rectified itself, so I restarted the car with the
power button, while in park. The engine returned to it's normal idle
cylcle, but as soon as I put the shift lever into drive, the engine again
began racing and as I was now in heavy traffic in a 40 mph zone, I had to
maintain steady pressure on the brake pedal to keep the car within a safe
speed and lane usage. The engine (both gas and electric) now applied more
power as I was breaking and before I was able to pull off the street, the
brakes were smoking so badly my brother thought thew car was on fire.
Once into the parking lot of a local bank, and stopped, the engine again
paused briefly and I shut it down with the power button. While this
engine racing was taking place, I tried to shift to neutral, hit the park
switch, the power putton, stepped on and off the throttle pedal
repeatedly, and switched the cruise control button on and off several
times. The only succesfull remedy was to brake down through full applied
power to a stop, with smoking brakes and wait for a pause in engine rpm.
If I waited for more than a second or two, the high revs would resume and
run high for several more seconds. My Toyota dealer advised me that they
could find nothing wrong, test drove the car for 10 miles and had no
recurrence. They also suggested that my floor mat had become stuck on the
throttle pedal causing the incident. The service manager (Eric Bolen)
stated that Toyota maintained that this rampant throttle run was
IMPOSSIBLE I am a retired Michigan State Trooper especially trained in
accident investigation and reconstruction, a former Cummins Diesel
mecahnic and have installed several after market cruise controlls on at
least three different makes of vehicles, so I am very familiar with
mechanical and electronic systems. I am also quite experience in dealing
with emergency driving situations after spending 25 years on the road as
an enforcement officer. After being told about the floor mat excuse, and
knowing that I had tried to step on and release the accellerator pedal
over and over while the incident was happening, I did take the time to
place the floor mat both over and jam it under the pedal.......neither
tactics were able to jam the pedal's movement. In spite of Toyota's claim
that this condition is impossible, I have enough experience with vehicles
and emergency driving situations to know that this actually did happen,
was not a matter of a floor mat getting jammed either on or under the
accellerator pedal, and in fact was the result of some internal operating
system glitch. At this juncture, I have no complaint with our Toyota
dealer or their employees, and the vehicle seems to be functioning
normally now. I am concerned that Toyota has not addressed this as a
safety issue, however. Had this happened with my wife driving, I am sure
this would not have come to a safe conclusion. We are still driving this
vehicle but I have instructed her in how to handle a simililar condition
should it recure. Thank you for providing a forum for getting this
information out. If necessary I can provide vehicle VIN etc for more
thorough evaluation.

A. Anna of Keizer OR (06/24/08)
My Prius had the brakes go out (luckily for me it was under warranty and
I had a Toyota staff person advocate for my warranty so it was honored)
however, after reaching 100,000 miles, my display is now starting to show
the same signs as some of the other people are complaining about the
monitor turning off the radio, or a/c while I'm driving.

A. Geo of Huntsburg OH (06/15/08)
we bought a new 2002 toyota prius and with 20,000 miles on our original
set and 50000 on our 2nd set we now have to buy a 3rd set of tires
because the outer tread has worn down to the radial. these tires are
supposed to last 65000 miles and neither toyota nor bridgestone will do
anything about this potentially life threatening problem. We had the
tires rotated, balanced and aligned as needed. In my opinion, if you want
a eco freindly car buy a honda.

A. Michael of Willits CA (06/12/08)
The Traction Control system on my 2008 Toyota Prius is worthless. I have
a steep gravel driveway that is extremely hard to climb due to the
unnecessary engine cut outs, especially if there is any extra weight in
the rear of the car. The engines quit when the computer senses any type
of slippage; worse in the summer when gravel is dry. Also there are very
noticeable engine cut outs when just going over bumps on level pavement.
My previous Prius, a 2002, would slip a bit on the same driveway but I
had much more control over the car and the speed compared to the new
2008, very acceptable. Heavier tires with more rubber on the road made
little difference with the 2002; I expect the same when I get better
tires on the 2008. Had I known about the problem with this earlier, as I
have just found reported on the internet, I would not have purchased this
car.

A. I am SICK to my stomach. I have TRUSTED Toyota for YEARS to provide a
SAFE and RELIABLE vehicle. I traded in my 2007 Toyota Touring Avalon on
my 2008 Toyota Prius ... NEVER even giving ONE thought that I was buying
an UNSAFE and HAZARDOUS car. (Boy do I ever wish I still had the Avalon
...)

A. Ginny of Cascade ID (06/03/08)
My new 2007 Prius Toyota with 5000 miles on it quit running. Would not
start. Called dealer and had maintenance dept. walk me through a jump
start as with these cars you do it under the front hood not in the back
where the battery is. Car still would not start. They said have it towed
in. I did have it towed in the 85 miles to the dealer. After several mis
communication calls and two different reports on my car I found out they
will not fix under warranty. Say I jumped it wrong. They say I caused the
damage and that warranty is only for defective parts.

A. Ted of Eagle CO (05/26/08)
On August 10, 2008 my wife, Elizabeth James, experienced an unintended
acceleration of our Prius resulting in a totalled car and long term minor
injuries for her (chronic back pain, obstructed intestines).

A. Dean of New Rochelle NY (05/15/08)
The Toyota Prius nearly killed a mechanic and me today, literally. I had
the car stored for months in my flat level driveway for a relative who is
traveling abroad. Naturally, the battery went dead after not being driven
during this time. So, I had a mechanic come and he started the engine
today. While the Prius engine was running, both the mechanic and myself
were half in and half outside the car; the mechanic by the driver side
and me by the passenger side. The car suddenly lunged in reverse and the
driver side opened door of the Prius totally destroyed my car driver side
door parked along side it, and somehow the mechanic brought the car to a
stop. The mechanic claims the Prius was in neutral but the brake had been
applied when it suddenly, with no warning, accelerated in reverse. Im
thankful we escaped without injury but now I have a hefty expense to
replace my car door. Just imagine if someone had been behind the Prius
today, they likely would have died.

A. J. of Dublin, Ireland (05/15/08)
June 2004 Toyota Prius....28,800 miles. Computer Display unit on the
dash-board has gone faulty. Toyota say its not covered on the 8yr Hybrid
system warranty? They are looking for almost 3500 euro to replace
it.....after ONLY 28,000 miles!!! Have been offered a Reconditioned unit
for half the price? There must be a manufacturing problem with this
unit??

Air-conditioning unit not working and radio also faulty, plus no read-out
on display unit. A right pain to say the least!

A. Paget of Santa Monica CA (05/09/08)
I recently bought a Toyota Prius 2008. After one week I had a dead
battery. I have since learned that the car is started with a small 12v
battery and due to the size and number of items it runs on the car
(radio, CD, air conditioning fan, alarm, smart key entry etc) the battery
can go dead very quickly. if the car is not driven, the battery dies in 7
days. Even if you drive the car, it takes approx 10 hours of driving to
fully charge the 12v. I have never read this in any of the research I did
on this car.

A. Kevin of Rochester NY (05/09/08)
While test driving a Toyota Prius today the car accelerated on its own
even though my foot was off the gas and on the break. The sales women was
in the car with me and was as frightened. I drove the car about a half a
mile before I could find a driveway to pull off on. By then the car was
engulfed in smoke from the breaks over heating. I was finally able to
pull off the road and stopped the acceleration when I tapped the
accelerator. We drove the car back to the dealership to the service
department. Upon telling the service person our story he commented that
this happens all the time with this car and blamed the problem on the
accelerator being caught in the floor mat. I immediately walked ou to the
car opened the driver door, got on my hands and knees and examined the
floor mat and then pushed the accelerator down to the floor and
determined there was a inch distance between the mat and accelerator.
Toyota has a problem they need to solve!

A. William of New York NY (05/07/08)
I have a 2006 Prius fully loaded. I was checking the tire pressure one
day and had my hand in front of the tire. The engine kicked in, I guess
to charge the battery and the car jerked forward an inch or two. Good
thing I moved my hand quick enough. This is an accident waiting to
happen. So becareful if you have it on park and the engine is on. In
addition, when I'm waiting for someone in the streets and put it on park.
When the engine kicks in, the car jerks forward. And you know, in NYC
midtown area, there are alot of jay walkers. I hope they take this safety
concern into consideraton in future models.

A. Michael of Placerville CA (04/25/08)
Toyota Prius balked (shut Down) when entering highway from a incline and
we were not able to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Repair costs
to prius almost $10,000. Cannot get up drive way when it rains, snow
makes the car start and stop often.

A. Kathy of Torrance CA (03/13/08)
I am the owner of 2006 Prius. On February 25, 2008 at 8am heading to
work, suddenly, the hazardous red light and the battery light went off on
my dashboard screen and realized that my car was loosing power on busy
110 Harbor freeway north bound. I panicked not knowing what happened. The
car became heavy and it started to slow down no matter how I pushed the
accelerator.

I could not control the speed anymore. All I could think was to pull my
car to the right shoulder and I barely made it to the nearest shoulder
which was very narrow. I feared of the speeding cars approaching from
behind thinking maybe one of the cars will eventually crash into me. I
called above dealer right away but I was told that they would not know
the problem until they see my car and suggested my car be towed. When my
car got to the dealer, Sean first told me that things like this is most
likely covered under warranty so he suggested leaving the car and rent a
car.

AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
RogerM - 25 Jul 2008 11:21 GMT
> Reviews:

Wow, I'm sure glad our Aussie Hybrids are better than the pieces of sh.t the
US get.

Roger
the_dawggie - 25 Jul 2008 11:34 GMT
> > Reviews:
>
> Wow, I'm sure glad our Aussie Hybrids are better than the pieces of sh.t the
> US get.

I would not buy one. The only thing you have is braking taking back
energy
into a battery pack of many many cells. Failure point there is likely.

I had enough experience with batteries since I was a kid. Urrr umm,
nope. My truck would even run without a car battery - just need to
start
it. Alternator will then power luxo stuff like stereo, and 'lights.
Engine will
have no further interest in 'lectric as long as it still gets fuel.
Toby - 25 Jul 2008 14:07 GMT
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:21:49 +1000, RogerM blathered on in:aus.cars
>> Reviews:
>
> Wow, I'm sure glad our Aussie Hybrids are better than the pieces of sh.t the
> US get.
>
> Roger

Err, apparently they build them there...

--

Toby
Ron - 25 Jul 2008 22:23 GMT
>> Reviews:
>
> Wow, I'm sure glad our Aussie Hybrids are better than the pieces of
> sh.t the US get.
>
> Roger

Australia is probably just as bad.
You just don't hear about it!
zonie - 26 Jul 2008 01:39 GMT
As far as I know all Prius are built in Japan. I would think we have mor
failures because there are more of them here. And some Prius owners ar
not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to common sense .
 Scot

-
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/aus.cars
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.htm
RainbowWarrior - 26 Jul 2008 04:03 GMT
> As far as I know all Prius are built in Japan. I would think we have more
> failures because there are more of them here. And some Prius owners are
> not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier when it comes to common sense .
>  Scott

I think some of you may be decended from the same people knocking the
horseless carriage when it first replaced horses. "Dumb idea, It'll never
catch on!"
Ron - 26 Jul 2008 05:11 GMT
> As far as I know all Prius are built in Japan. I would think we have more
> failures because there are more of them here. And some Prius owners are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/aus.cars/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

Get a load of this!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Matt of Sunnyvale CA (02/12/08)
I am one of the first to buy a Prius in 2001. Now, after 130,000 miles of
driving the main battery is dead. Toyota dealer is telling me the battery
for the main battery was for 100,000 for my car, although the new Prius'
come with 150,000 mile warranty. I have been told by the dealer (which I
don't trust), that I am the 3rd Prius which required main battery
replacement. Labor and part, plus tax: $4,500. Only a week before that I
had to have a sensor, that helps air/fuel mix, replaced for nearly $400.
Unfortunately, there is no third-party service provides who know how to
fix Prius. The independent repair shops don't know about or scared to
touch electronic/electrical stuff. Soooo, this means you are stuck with
your Toyota dealer and Toyota's prices for parts... to the end.

Here is the big picture for future Prius owners: - Be prepared to pay a
$4,500 for the main battery before 150,000 miles. Of course, you can buy
a decent used car for the same price. Tough choice... - The car is loaded
with electronics and solid state controllers. Be prepared to pay
outrageous prices for diagnostics and repair (very rarely you will walk
out with a bill costing under $300) - Do you know you will pay nearly
$150 for having a duplicate key made to your Prius? That is because the
key apparently has an anti-theft chip which has to be programmed by
Toyota. Quite frankly, I am done being a maverick. I am not buying
another hybrid car. When is hydrogen powered cars coming???"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
$4,500 for a battery... LOL :-)

Given the cost of a Pirarse, the weight of the slug, the tyre usage and
all it's faults, you would have to be a "Previous Magna owner" to buy
one.  i.e. "Think" :-)

Four and a half grand buys a lot of petrol..
Lu R - 25 Jul 2008 11:52 GMT
> Reviews:
>
[quoted text clipped - 268 lines]
>
> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!

Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10 incidents here.
SO f.cking WHAT YOU TWAT?? How about you now demonstrate every FALCADORE
incident that's ever occurred? FIRES, AUTO TRANSMISSION FAILURES, CYLINDER
HEAD LEAKS, BRAKE FAILURES, EXHAUST LEAKS...f.ck me dead..you are truly a
stupid desperate fuckwit trolling the net to put down the Prius ..well f.ck 
you tool..you've shown your true noballs colours now wonny...I await the
Falcadore report..BWAHHAHARRR!!!
Toby - 25 Jul 2008 14:08 GMT
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:52:10 +1000, Lu R blathered on in:aus.cars
>  AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> you tool..you've shown your true noballs colours now wonny...I await the
> Falcadore report..BWAHHAHARRR!!!

Don't take it so hard, lad.

--

Toby
Ron - 25 Jul 2008 22:28 GMT
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:52:10 +1000, Lu R blathered on in:aus.cars
>>  AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Toby

Ozones brother, hard to believe there are two fools the same :-)
Ron - 25 Jul 2008 22:28 GMT
>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> down the Prius ..well f.ck you tool..you've shown your true noballs
> colours now wonny...I await the Falcadore report..BWAHHAHARRR!!!

Listen sh.t for brains, you bought that f.cking LEMON, NOT ME!!

Those are just a TINY amount of complaints!
The horrid PIRARSE is a dangerous LEMON!!

With a bit of luck you will get killed in your pieces of sh.t and we will
all have peace!!

ROTFLMAO..... Only a real fuckwit would buy a PIRARSE... LOL:-)

I'll bet you sencond heap of sh.t is a MAGNA!!!  Looser...
Lu R - 26 Jul 2008 06:19 GMT
>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> With a bit of luck you will get killed in your pieces of sh.t and we will
> all have peace!

You certainly WILL DIE driving your ancient POS you tightwad c.nt. Lets hope
you dont kill anyone else on the road who bothers to PAY for a SAFE CAR. I'm
still waitign for the list of FALCADORES and the issues THEYVE HAD...fool.
IF any of the issues you cited were common theyd have announced
RECALLS...duhhh you total stupid c.nt.
ReSiN8oR - 26 Jul 2008 09:10 GMT
>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10 incidents
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> IF any of the issues you cited were common theyd have announced
> RECALLS...duhhh you total stupid c.nt.

Here's a tissue
Ron - 26 Jul 2008 10:02 GMT
>>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
> Here's a tissue

He really is an idiot :-)
Mind you, a 'VERY' uneducated one at that!
I'm wondering if "it" is "Ozone" in disguise?

I now have the fool on killfile, you can never reason with a retard!
Lu R - 26 Jul 2008 16:02 GMT
>>>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> I now have the fool on killfile, you can never reason with a retard!

Reason he says...ROFLMAO..apart from noballs noddy Ive never seen such a
one-eyed POS sh.t forth such lies. Go and fuckin kill yourself you utter
moron. Glad to hear I wont have to read your f.cking nonsense anymore...
Clocky - 27 Jul 2008 00:56 GMT
>>>>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>>>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> one-eyed POS sh.t forth such lies. Go and fuckin kill yourself you utter
> moron. Glad to hear I wont have to read your f.cking nonsense anymore...

Ron bought a fuel saver device and thought it actually worked... enough said
I think.
Ron - 27 Jul 2008 22:16 GMT
>>>>>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>>>>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> Ron bought a fuel saver device and thought it actually worked...
> enough said I think.

It did not work.
The car has exceptional fuel consumption.
Clocky - 28 Jul 2008 00:12 GMT
>>>>>>>>> AND THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE!!
>>>>>>>> Oh GOD NO!!! 1 million Priuses sold worldwide and about 10
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> It did not work.
> The car has exceptional fuel consumption.

You wouldn't know, the last time you joined in on a fuel economy discussion
you couldn't even work out the difference in L/100KM and MPG and got all
f.cked up with the numbers.

You are in a fuel economy pissing contest with your traveling buddies, but
you don't even know what you are actually getting.
Ron - 27 Jul 2008 22:17 GMT
>> Reason he says...ROFLMAO..apart from noballs noddy Ive never seen
>> such a one-eyed POS sh.t forth such lies. Go and fuckin kill yourself
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Ron bought a fuel saver device and thought it actually worked...
> enough said I think.

You and your best mate should hit it off very well, he is a lot like Ozone
and yourself... ROTFLMAO.:-)
Toby - 25 Jul 2008 14:05 GMT
On 25 Jul 2008 08:17:49 GMT, Ron blathered on in:aus.cars
> A. J. of Dublin, Ireland (05/15/08)
> June 2004 Toyota Prius....28,800 miles. Computer Display unit on the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for half the price? There must be a manufacturing problem with this
> unit??

My favourite!

The old Toyota parts price gouge trick.

--

Toby
Clocky - 26 Jul 2008 01:39 GMT
> On 25 Jul 2008 08:17:49 GMT, Ron blathered on in:aus.cars
>> A. J. of Dublin, Ireland (05/15/08)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> The old Toyota parts price gouge trick.

The others have caught up.
RainbowWarrior - 26 Jul 2008 04:06 GMT
>> On 25 Jul 2008 08:17:49 GMT, Ron blathered on in:aus.cars
>>> A. J. of Dublin, Ireland (05/15/08)
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> The others have caught up.

Maybe just grab an old Falcon dash, a volt gauge from Dick Smiths and one of
those rub on the tyre speedos from a pushbike and you just saved yourself a
mint :)
 
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