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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / July 2009New ute for under $20 grand
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/ BD10553237E7A8E1CA2575DF002A21E8 GREAT Wall Motors today became the first Chinese car-maker to nail up its shingle in Australia, staking a claim on the light-commercial vehicle market with a pair of twin-cab utes and a sub-$20,000 on-road entry price. With leather trim, alloy wheels, electric windows and air-conditioning all included as standard equipment, the five-seat, four-cylinder petrol Great Wall SA220 and V240 – known in China as the Sailor and Wingle respectively – will go on sale this week through a new 45-dealer network in Australia, as well as six dealerships in New Zealand. Great value but leather seats in a ute? no thanks. Probably break the first time you take it out of the box too.  SignatureRegards Dan > Great value but leather seats in a ute? no thanks. > > Probably break the first time you take it out of the box too. LOL China's time will come, but its not now! "Hello Sailor" LOL China are nearly #1 producer of *cars* on the planet, China aint going away any time soon. What took Japan 40 years, Korea 20 years will take China 10 years or less. Know of these utes in S/Africa, and your right, they are junk, better off buying a 2nd hand Bakkie than this! Have another go "Great Wall" P > -- > Regards > Dan > China are nearly #1 producer of *cars* on the planet, China aint going > away any time soon. China has a massive domestic market, full of people with very low expectations. > What took Japan 40 years, Korea 20 years will take China 10 years or > less. China could be a world leader in the automotive market tomorrow if they wanted to, and there is no learning curve they need to go through preventing that. All that's stopping them is the desire to produce a product of decent *quality*, and it'll be a *very* long time indeed before they have one. The very thing that makes Chinese products appealing to some, being cheap price, usually comes at the expense of decent quality. You generally can't have both, and the Chinese are as aware of that as anyone else. -- Regards, Noddy. > http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/ > BD10553237E7A8E1CA2575DF002A21E8 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Probably break the first time you take it out of the box too. what's its ANCAP safety rating ;-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/ >> BD10553237E7A8E1CA2575DF002A21E8 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > what's its ANCAP safety rating ;-) That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot safer. They are also very underpowered, 78 and 100kw isn't going to impress too many people. Daryl > That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese > vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot safer. > They are also very underpowered, 78 and 100kw isn't going to impress too > many people. Weak as piss when fully loaded you would only need 2 gears 1st and 2nd because it would bog down anything higher. :-). My Rodeo has around 157 kw thats plenty for a ute probably drink less than the petrol chinese thing too because it can take the load without killing itself. :-). --- Regards Dan >> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese >> vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot safer. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > itself. :-). > --- You are obviously having masturbatory delusions if you think a 78kw or 100kw ute is useless Dan! Australia's workhorse the Holden 1 tonner 6cyl had not much more than 78 for decades and all the Jap utes and 1 tonners were well below that mark until the last ten years or so. Power-utes are just for w.nkers and posers; they're not necessary for workers! SignatureKnob >>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese >>> vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot safer. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Power-utes are just for w.nkers and posers; they're not necessary for > workers! Rubbish, my Hilux is used 90% for work, its normally loaded with about 300kg of tools and I often tow a tandem trailer. The 126kw 343Nm from the 3.0lt TD is only enough, the torque is great for towing but any less and it would be useless. A loaded ute with only 78kw would struggle to keep up with a loaded semi. I agree most don't need a 6.0lt V8 for a work horse but loaded work vehicles do need a decent amount of power. Daryl >>>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of >>>> Chinese vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Daryl I'll say it's rubbish! The "Knob" wouldn't have a f.cking clue as to what work is! Being a "Coffee Boy" in Telstra is hardly what I would call work! Small Jap utes are really only commuter toys for those like the "Knob". Ford and Holden utes are used by contractors who need the power to lug and haul! Up here, anthing that is used by contractors and tows something is either, Holden, Ford, Landcruiser or Patrol. The reall heavy stuff is usually behind a Ford F250 powerstroke Diesel V8. >>>>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of >>>>> Chinese vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Small Jap utes are really only commuter toys for those like the "Knob". Don't know what you mean by "small Jap utes" but my dual cab Hilux is longer than Falcodore utes. The 3.0lt TD has plenty of torque for towing and the 4.0lt petrol Hilux has 176kw so its not a slug, most of the Jap utes have good power these days and the economy of the TD is excellent. Daryl : >>>>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of : >>>>> Chinese vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] : : Daryl And if you have a spare $72k you can get the TRD Hilux with 220 kW. Dont know what a Ford of Holden Ute has in that range (XR6/SS Maybe?) but the Hilux's tow pretty dam well I thought. >>>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese >>>> vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I agree most don't need a 6.0lt V8 for a work horse but loaded work > vehicles do need a decent amount of power. Since when is towing an (assumedy loaded) tandem trailer at highway speeds standard fare for a cheap work ute? Besides; you're still having a w.nk if you reckon you need 180hp to do that! Sure power is great and you can win drag races between the lights and bully Asians who're trying to merge but you're just stroking it if you reckon it's essential and anything less would be unworkable. SignatureKnob >>>>> That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese >>>>> vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Since when is towing an (assumedy loaded) tandem trailer at highway speeds > standard fare for a cheap work ute? Towing is a very common requirement for a ute. > Besides; you're still having a w.nk if you reckon you need 180hp to do that! 180hp is approx 134kw, my Hilux has 126kw which is IMO adequate but not brilliant for towing, I certainly wouldn't want any less power. > Sure power is great and you can win drag races between the lights and bully > Asians who're trying to merge but you're just stroking it if you reckon it's > essential and anything less would be unworkable. IMO its "essential" to be able to maintain a reasonable speed on a highway even on hills, try that with 100kw or less when towing or fully loaded. Daryl > IMO its "essential" to be able to maintain a reasonable speed on a > highway even on hills, try that with 100kw or less when towing or fully > loaded. Be a very leisurely drive, I would have to ring the mrs about 2 hours a head of time just for a 30 minute drive when coming home if I had to tow or carry a load in the back of the ute with a underpowered engine. :-) SignatureRegards Dan >> IMO its "essential" to be able to maintain a reasonable speed on a >> highway even on hills, try that with 100kw or less when towing or fully [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > head of time just for a 30 minute drive when coming home if I had to tow > or carry a load in the back of the ute with a underpowered engine. :-) w.nk on Dan! Unless you usually travel at 140+ the 78kw ute is gonna' get you home within 2 minutes of the 200-killer-wasp equivalent! SignatureKnob >>> --- >> You are obviously having masturbatory delusions if you think a 78kw or >> 100kw ute is useless Dan! What carry a load with a seriously underpowered ute what about towing at max recommeded capacity 78kw or 100kw it would struggle to even maintain a decent speed. I think your the one who is deluded that thinks 78 kw or 100 kw would handle a full load in the ute and or towing with ease. I've driven plenty of big trucks like semi's and tippers and I can tell from the gutless ones that could bearly handle a load and keep a decent speed especially up hills. Power and torque is essential for carrying loads and towing. >> Australia's workhorse the Holden 1 tonner 6cyl had not much more than >> 78 for decades and all the Jap utes and 1 tonners were well below that >> mark until the last ten years or so. >> Power-utes are just for w.nkers and posers; they're not necessary for >> workers! No one was talking about show pony utes we are talking about work horse utes. SignatureRegards Dan Was replying to knob disregard Dazz. :-) >>>> --- >>> You are obviously having masturbatory delusions if you think a 78kw or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > No one was talking about show pony utes we are talking about work horse > utes. SignatureRegards Dan >>>> --- >>> You are obviously having masturbatory delusions if you think a 78kw or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > No one was talking about show pony utes we are talking about work horse > utes. A) You're an idiot; that's obvious. B) You're a fuckhead who can't read. and C) You're a fuckhead who can't write simple sentences. There's a D) you're a w.nker but we've already covered than in the previous (misattributed) posts. SignatureKnob : > That's a very good question, after seeing some crash test's of Chinese : > vehicles on Youtube these utes would need to prove they are a lot safer. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : Regards : Dan But all they want to cart around is ten cases of Lettuce and Bokchoy (SP??) from the market to the restaurant! You dont need a Rodeo for that! >They are also very underpowered, 78 and 100kw isn't going to impress too >many people. The early 4WD Hiluxes ('83 or thereabouts) were 46kW (L engine). Anyone about to trade up to something more recent would have to be impressed! :) SignatureJohn H > Anyone about to trade up to something more recent would have to be > impressed! :) Fucktard Patrick would probably think they went like sh.t of a chrome plated shovel :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> They are also very underpowered, 78 and 100kw isn't going to impress too >> many people. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Anyone about to trade up to something more recent would have to be > impressed! :) LOL, the 3.0lt diesel in the BJ40 Cruiser I owned had a massive 68hp so 78kw would seem overpowered:-) BTW after failing to get my wife to take her Impreza to get serviced despite being about 10,000 overdue I decided to do it myself, one of the easiest cars I've ever serviced, should have done it a long time ago:-( Daryl >BTW after failing to get my wife to take her Impreza to get serviced >despite being about 10,000 overdue I decided to do it myself, one of the >easiest cars I've ever serviced, should have done it a long time ago:-( What modern car isn't easy to service? Nor have they ever required less in the way of routine maintenance IMHO. SignatureJohn H >> BTW after failing to get my wife to take her Impreza to get serviced >> despite being about 10,000 overdue I decided to do it myself, one of the >> easiest cars I've ever serviced, should have done it a long time ago:-( > > What modern car isn't easy to service? Easy as in you don't need to be a contortionist to access the sump plug and oil filter, changing the oil filter on the 3.4lt Hilux was a PITA, much more accessible on the Suby. > Nor have they ever required less in the way of routine maintenance > IMHO. Agreed, the 50,000klm service is not much more than an oil and filter change plus replace coolant and brake fluid, its got me stuffed how the dealer can justify charging $530.00 for that service. Daryl >Agreed, the 50,000klm service is not much more than an oil and filter >change plus replace coolant and brake fluid, its got me stuffed how the >dealer can justify charging $530.00 for that service. Does that include materials? If so I'd imagine the genuine coolant costs an arm and a leg. Nor do they provide any specification for the coolant (even in the factory service manual). IIRC the service booklet that comes with the car (separate from the owners manual) gives the suggested times to perform all of the scheduled services. From memory, none are supposed to take more than a couple of hours -- for the Legacy (Liberty) at any rate. Where I am most dealerships were charging around $100 an hour last time I checked (no doubt for their first year apprentices as well), which should still leave at least $330 to cover materials. SignatureJohn H >> Agreed, the 50,000klm service is not much more than an oil and filter >> change plus replace coolant and brake fluid, its got me stuffed how the >> dealer can justify charging $530.00 for that service. > > Does that include materials? I would hope so:-) I forgot to mention the service also includes replacing the air filter element, apparently its the same element as many Commodore's so its not expensive at $16.99, I hate to think how much the dealer would charge. > If so I'd imagine the genuine coolant costs an arm and a leg. Nor do > they provide any specification for the coolant (even in the factory > service manual). I haven't done the coolant change yet as I was thinking about buying genuine, without specs its hard to know what after market coolant to buy but it's red like the coolant in Toyota's so I can't see why any good quality red coolant wouldn't be up top the job? > IIRC the service booklet that comes with the car (separate from the > owners manual) gives the suggested times to perform all of the > scheduled services. From memory, none are supposed to take more than > a couple of hours -- for the Legacy (Liberty) at any rate. The service that was missed was the "D" service, the book suggests 2 hours. > Where I am most dealerships were charging around $100 an hour last > time I checked (no doubt for their first year apprentices as well), > which should still leave at least $330 to cover materials. So far its cost me $83.97 for engine oil and filter plus an air filter, I should be able to buy a lot of coolant and brake fluid for $246.03:-) We are still very happy with the car but I'm less than impressed with the dealers service charges. Daryl >I haven't done the coolant change yet as I was thinking about buying >genuine, without specs its hard to know what after market coolant to buy >but it's red like the coolant in Toyota's so I can't see why any good >quality red coolant wouldn't be up top the job? That's interesting... the original coolant in my Soobie is green. :-/ AFAIK (but can't be dead certain) all the red stuff is OAT (organic acid technology) whereas the green stuff is silicate. As far as I'm aware those Japanese manufacturers that do specify the coolant type all specify OAT... apparently the reason has to do with the head gasket material used. Otherwise, provided the coolant type is the same (the two aren't compatible) it should do exactly the same job. Next time I'm near a Subaru dealer I'll definitely check out the colour of the genuine stuff. SignatureJohn H >> I haven't done the coolant change yet as I was thinking about buying >> genuine, without specs its hard to know what after market coolant to buy >> but it's red like the coolant in Toyota's so I can't see why any good >> quality red coolant wouldn't be up top the job? > > That's interesting... the original coolant in my Soobie is green. :-/ That comment made me double check, it is green but very dark which is possibly why I thought it was red in dull light. > AFAIK (but can't be dead certain) all the red stuff is OAT (organic > acid technology) whereas the green stuff is silicate. As far as I'm > aware those Japanese manufacturers that do specify the coolant type > all specify OAT... apparently the reason has to do with the head > gasket material used. > Otherwise, provided the coolant type is the same (the two aren't > compatible) it should do exactly the same job. That's what I thought but I'll check if any local spare parts places have any specs or listing for what is supposed to be used. > Next time I'm near a Subaru dealer I'll definitely check out the > colour of the genuine stuff. Could be green:-) Daryl > What modern car isn't easy to service? Relatively modern: Mid '90's Nissan Nirvara with a V6 engine. It's one of the *worst* vehicles in the world to change the oil filter. To the point of cutting an access hole in the driver's side inner guard is a very good idea (and if I owned one that's the first thing I'd be doing. > Nor have they ever required less in the way of routine maintenance > IMHO. That's true, but they're a lot more fragile in my opinion. -- Regards, Noddy. >> What modern car isn't easy to service? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > That's true, but they're a lot more fragile in my opinion. Our last 3 vehicles have been far from fragile, 2001 Corolla did 85,000klms with nothing more than regular servicing, the 2003 Hilux 156,000klms the same and the Suby so far 48,000klms without a problem. Those vehicles have been by far the most reliable we have ever owned and have required next to nothing in the way of repairs. Daryl > Our last 3 vehicles have been far from fragile, 2001 Corolla did > 85,000klms with nothing more than regular servicing, the 2003 Hilux > 156,000klms the same and the Suby so far 48,000klms without a problem. > Those vehicles have been by far the most reliable we have ever owned and > have required next to nothing in the way of repairs. I didn't mean that modern cars weren't reliable, as they certainly can be, but in saying they're "fragile" I meant there is a shitload of components that can "take one out" and leave it stranded on the side of the road with no hope of being restarted compared to older cars. It's a trade-off to me. Where we used to have cars that required fairly extensive servicing (relatively speaking) every 20 thousand miles but you could fix with a knife and fork, we now have cars that require basic servicing over more extended periods but require shitloads of equipment and technical assistance to repair if and when they stop. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Our last 3 vehicles have been far from fragile, 2001 Corolla did >> 85,000klms with nothing more than regular servicing, the 2003 Hilux [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > servicing over more extended periods but require shitloads of equipment > and technical assistance to repair if and when they stop. Yeah; it's the "black box" syndrome. We feared these things and we hated to lose control like we did but we have to accept that these CDI/ EFI/ ECM thingos really are quite dependable and do remain operational way, waaay longer than their mechanical ancestors. Disposable cars now go 200,000 and 300,000km before they require disposal! It's still "wrong" but you can't deny it works! SignatureKnob > Yeah; it's the "black box" syndrome. > We feared these things and we hated to lose control like we did but we > have to accept that these CDI/ EFI/ ECM thingos really are quite > dependable and do remain operational way, waaay longer than their > mechanical ancestors. Well, I wouldn't go *quite* that far. Modern cars are far and away much more cost effective when it comes to servicing, but being far more dependable or reliable is another matter. Some of them can be brilliant, just like some older cars could be very reliable. On the other hand, some modern cars are a bloody nightmare despite their bells and whistles and have relatively sort lives between failures where their ancestors would go for a *very* long time without too much effort. The big difference for mine is what the technology gives you per cubic inch. Back in the old days, a 3 litre single valve engine with a single barrel carb and points ignition system might have been lucky to crack 70kw. These days the same capacity will give you double the power output for significantly less fuel consumption, and that to me is the real benefit. The longevity aspect is over-rated to a degree, as many older cars could go for just as long. > Disposable cars now go 200,000 and 300,000km before they require disposal! > It's still "wrong" but you can't deny it works! Some do, but then again some don't get anywhere near that. The "life" of a car, such as it is, is dependent on many things, and not the least of which is how it's treated. Having a late model car with all the whizz-bang control systems doesn't automatically mean that it'll last for decades and be trouble free. Drive it regularly in stop start traffic over relatively short distances where it spends little time at normal operating temperature and it'll have a remarkably short life regardless of how many mod-cons are hanging off the engine. My wife owned a Suby Sportswagon from near new that did 315k kms on it's very agricultural EA81 engine without so much as carb kit being put through it, and when I pulled the engine down to freshen it up when the car was being painted it had some *slight* wear on one of the cam lobes. The rest of the engine was immaculate and new rings and a quick synchro seat saw it perform as good as new. The old bearings were perfect and went back in. Similarly, I had a ZL Fairlane and XF ute that ran 350k kms and 500k kms respectively on their original engines without the slightest trouble, although they were both admittedly fed a constant diet of lpg (which no doubt helped in that regard). Of course, the down side to all of these vehicles is that combined they made roughly enough power to run a 2 slice toaster (provided you had the browning setting at the minimum). On the other hand, I've seen many a new engine been virtually destroyed because they've snapped a 30 buck timing belt (something the old Sporty's EA81 would never do) and Falcon 6 cylinder engines have become worse with regards to reliability as they've got more "modern and civilised" and I can't imagine getting 500k km's out of a BA Falcon without it's engine having seen some serious part replacements (and provided the rest of the car was still in a driveable state by that time). On the whole I tend to agree with you, but it's certainly not a given. I'd take a new car (or relatively new) over an old one as a daily driver any day, but only if it was Japanese as they tend to do it better than most. -- Regards, Noddy. > On the other hand, I've seen many a new engine been virtually destroyed > because they've snapped a 30 buck timing belt (something the old Sporty's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > having seen some serious part replacements (and provided the rest of the car > was still in a driveable state by that time). Funny you should say that. I took the EF in for a wheel alignment the other day as I noticed the tyre wear was uneven at the front. I went to a bloke who was recommended to me by one of my customers and as I walked in I recognised him from having worked at another company before they were gobbled up by a tyre chain. Anyway we run the specs over the thing and it is well out. Swap tyres front to rear, balance the new front tyres, align the thing and I walk out happy, thinking I'll take the BA in for an alignment. In goes the BA. Can't align it he says. Needs new lower control arm bushes. I knew this as I had it in to a suspension place a few weeks before chasing down the noises in the front end. Appears this is what is causing it. I have a written quote from the suspension place for the job which comes to $950.45 in front of me. He rings them up and asks for the same job ( I didn't realise he was ringing them at the time) as he does not do it and they quote him $750 for the same job.... Needless to say I am taking it to another suspension place where I have been quoted $700 for the job. And no it is not Pedders.... > The "life" of a car, such as it is, is dependent on many things, and not the > least of which is how it's treated. Having a late model car with all the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > temperature and it'll have a remarkably short life regardless of how many > mod-cons are hanging off the engine. My wife uses the Volvo to take our son to and from school (aside from the days when she walks him home). If the 350 wears out, that's okay because I've got a spare waiting to be built up. Then again, it's on gas and the engine gets up to temp fairly quickly. :-) > Falcon 6 cylinder engines have become worse with > regards to reliability as they've got more "modern and civilised" and I > can't imagine getting 500k km's out of a BA Falcon without it's engine > having seen some serious part replacements (and provided the rest of the car > was still in a driveable state by that time). So, in your opinion, which model of Falcon 6 was the best one, before they started turning to crap? I'd say AU II/III but I'm curious whether you think the same or not. > On the whole I tend to agree with you, but it's certainly not a given. I'd > take a new car (or relatively new) over an old one as a daily driver any > day, but only if it was Japanese as they tend to do it better than most. Funny thing is that I've tried to offer my wife something else to replace the Volvo and she doesn't seem interested in changing. :-) SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> The "life" of a car, such as it is, is dependent on many things, and >> not the least of which is how it's treated. Having a late model car [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > they started turning to crap? I'd say AU II/III but I'm curious > whether you think the same or not. I agree, the AUIII is the best Ford we have ever had. In the 6 years that we have owned it, I have only spent money on the front discs/pads and a battery :) > So, in your opinion, which model of Falcon 6 was the best one, before they > started turning to crap? I'd say AU II/III but I'm curious whether you > think the same or not. I do. The AU II/III was the refinement of the EF engine, which in my opinion was the best of the old 6 cylinder's series. Once they moved to the DOHC thing they have now they introduced a whole swag of problems, and a lot of them caused by their own cost cutting ventures. I had the front brake hoses replaced under warranty on the Terry a few weeks ago, and while I was waiting I took a stroll around the dealer's yard. In the corner were a few new FG Falcon cab chassis on display, and I took a peek at them. One of the things that struck me about them was how remarkably cheap and nasty the things have become, with items like wiring clips and exhast brakets looking like "use once only" jobs. However the tailshaft was the interesting bit for me. They don't run a universal joint any more. They have a solid connection at the differential "yolk" that looks like it'll support *just* enough flex movement to accomodate the suspension travel, and I'll bet my left gonad it'll be worn out and f.cked in a quarter of the lifetime of a 12 buck uni joint, as well as throwing a shitload of harmonic issues into the driveline as a bonus. I'll also bet the other one that while the thing costs Ford a shitload less than a regular uni joint the same wouldn't apply to you and me :) > Funny thing is that I've tried to offer my wife something else to replace > the Volvo and she doesn't seem interested in changing. :-) There are exceptions of course :) -- Regards, Noddy. > ago, and while I was waiting I took a stroll around the dealer's yard. In > the corner were a few new FG Falcon cab chassis on display, and I took a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > joint, as well as throwing a shitload of harmonic issues into the > driveline as a bonus. It is to note that the FG has also gone back to a steel tailshaft, after using aluminium alloy in the BF (well, in the BF XR6 anyway.) FG Cab chassis is limited to 200kmh, BF XR6 cab chassis is limited to 180. And yep, I agree on the cheapness.. the plastic in the cabin is shithouse, and they have introduced some shocking design flaws... 1) extrenal mirror switch moved to middle of door near top of armrest. Cant get my fingers in there! 2) Column Auto steering column is not adjustable at all, so where I sit, the top half of the steering wheel blocks view to speedo and tacho... 3) the middle "seat" is absolutly useless, even for a child. The back of it is non-adjustable.So I have had to buy a block of HD foam, shape it, and get it covered at a trimmers... 4) the "tech" pack is only bluetooth and no ipod connectivity on column auto's. Why? I dunno... But they dont tell you that till you've taken possesion. 5) the front bumper is a different color to the rest of the ute. By a long way... On the upside, the performance of the FG over the BF is astonishing. My FG sh.ts all over my old BF. Probably coz the FG is a 5 speed auto, and the BF was a 4 speed auto And all the electronics in the cabin have been vastly improved, ie: finally a stereo that plays mp3's! regards Lindsay > And yep, I agree on the cheapness.. the plastic in the cabin is shithouse, > and they have introduced some shocking design flaws... > 1) extrenal mirror switch moved to middle of door near top of armrest. > Cant get my fingers in there! > 2) Column Auto steering column is not adjustable at all, so where I sit, > the top half of the steering wheel blocks view to speedo and tacho... f.ck, that's pissweak. Even a sub 20 grand Jap cab chassis has a tilt adjustment. > 3) the middle "seat" is absolutly useless, even for a child. The back of > it is non-adjustable.So I have had to buy a block of HD foam, shape it, > and get it covered at a trimmers... > 4) the "tech" pack is only bluetooth and no ipod connectivity on column > auto's. Why? I dunno... But they dont tell you that till you've taken > possesion. Lovely. > 5) the front bumper is a different color to the rest of the ute. By a long > way... It's been like that on some Fords for a while, and it's due to the different primers they use on the steel panels and plastic bumpers. Basically, the paint on the cars is so thin that the finished colour is affected by the colour of the primer underneath. > On the upside, the performance of the FG over the BF is astonishing. My FG > sh.ts all over my old BF. Probably coz the FG is a 5 speed auto, and the > BF was a 4 speed auto > And all the electronics in the cabin have been vastly improved, ie: > finally a stereo that plays mp3's! Lol :) They've reached a point where they're on a par with a 2004 Getz :) -- Regards, Noddy. >I'd >take a new car (or relatively new) over an old one as a daily driver any >day, but only if it was Japanese as they tend to do it better than most. Japanese, as in made in Japan?... Or would you class an Australian built Toyota as being Japanese? In fact a significant proportion of the 'Japanese' cars sold in Australia are manufactured in Thailand, compared to relatively few made in Japan. So what really determines the build quality... is it the country of manufacture or the nationality of the manufacturer? SignatureJohn H > Japanese, as in made in Japan?... Or would you class an Australian > built Toyota as being Japanese? I'd class an Australian built Toyota as "Japanese". My comments about Australian built cars were levelled specifically at Holden & Ford and the stuff they make here. Ford in particular as their quality control is absolutely pathetic. > In fact a significant proportion of the 'Japanese' cars sold in > Australia are manufactured in Thailand, compared to relatively few > made in Japan. So what really determines the build quality... is it > the country of manufacture or the nationality of the manufacturer? Nationality in my opinion. It's not about where it's made for mine, but the attitude of the manufacturer. I mean, let's face it you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work on an assembly line building cars, but you do have to follow the work practices that the company decides are acceptable and that's the key difference. What's "acceptable" to a Japanese company seems to be a *hell* of a lot different to an Australian company when it comes to putting cars together. -- Regards, Noddy. > ...... What's "acceptable" to a Japanese company seems to be a *hell* > of a lot different to an Australian company when it comes to putting cars > together. Heh heh; I remember something from when Toyota were first marketing the Lexan and the executive was asked how the quality compared to Toyota's own products. He replied very guardedly "It's not bad quality... it's just different quality....." SignatureKnob > Heh heh; I remember something from when Toyota were first marketing the > Lexan and the executive was asked how the quality compared to Toyota's own > products. > He replied very guardedly "It's not bad quality... it's just different > quality....." Lol :) Years ago when I worked for a Honda dealership the big news was the arrival of the NSX. The car was going to be "exclusive" to a handful of dealerships, and being one of Melbourne's more "upmarket" dealers that sold a shitload of cars we knew we were getting the nod to sell them. That was cool by me as it meant that as Service manager I'd be getting a free trip to Japan to get a crash course on the in's and out's of the things, and see how they were made. Sure enough I did, along with a dozen or so other service managers from dealerships around the country, and it was a fascinating experience. Going to Japan for a week wasn't anything special in itself as there was nothing in particular about Japan that I wanted to see, and I wasn't much interested in doing the "touristy" thing. I ended up spending most of the spare time I had in that week rooting, eating and drinking at Honda's expense as they were footing the bill, and I can be a *real* pig when someone else is paying :) The fascination was in the structure of the company and the attitude of the workers. We got to demo a few cars on Honda's test track, learn all about their features and sh.t like that, but the most interesting aspect of the trip was watching the cars being made and talking to some of the workers. The NSX was made in it's own special plant, and most of the staff were regular Honda employees who were hand picked from regular car building because they were incredibly good at what they did. The car was virtually made by hand, and the attention to detail was incredible. The attitude of the workers was such that if anything wasn't quite right they saw it as a personal failure and a huge embarrassment, and there would be nothing but shame unless they rectified it promptly. I mean, these guys would be as embarrassed about a door seal not fitting correctly as most people would be in getting caught having a tug. The level of pride in their work ran *deep*, regardless of how insignificant a job it may have been, and there were no heroes in the plant. The guy who hand finished the aluminium body with a file was no more or less important than the guy who fitted the wheels or wiper blades. They were all incredibly proud of their work, and all worked together to build as close to a fault free car as was humanly possible. *That's* the difference between them and us. "f.ck it, that'll do" is an expression not found in their language. -- Regards, Noddy. > "f.ck it, that'll do" is > an expression not found in their language. I'd be surprised if it was found in their language, considering "f.ck it, that'll do" is English and the Japanese speak Japanese....... SignatureKwyj. > I'd be surprised if it was found in their language, considering "f.ck it, > that'll do" is English and the Japanese speak Japanese....... If Sylvia ever decides she's had enough of being the most boringly anal poster around here you should give some consideration to putting your hand up for the job. -- Regards, Noddy. > > I'd be surprised if it was found in their language, considering "f.ck it, > > that'll do" is English and the Japanese speak Japanese....... > > If Sylvia ever decides she's had enough of being the most boringly anal > poster around here you should give some consideration to putting your hand > up for the job. Good idea... might keep his idle hand from feeling unwanted. >> I'd be surprised if it was found in their language, considering >> "f.ck it, that'll do" is English and the Japanese speak [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anal poster around here you should give some consideration to putting > your hand up for the job. hehe. Anal. Hand up. Puppets anyone? :-) SignatureKwyj. >> hand up for the job. > > hehe. Anal. Hand up. > Puppets anyone? :-) David Z your number has been called. :-p. SignatureRegards Dan >> I'd >> take a new car (or relatively new) over an old one as a daily driver any >> day, but only if it was Japanese as they tend to do it better than most. > > Japanese, as in made in Japan?... Or would you class an Australian > built Toyota as being Japanese? Maybe a better description would be built to "Japanese standards", Australian built Toyota's are of significantly better quality than other locals. > In fact a significant proportion of the 'Japanese' cars sold in > Australia are manufactured in Thailand, compared to relatively few > made in Japan. So what really determines the build quality... is it > the country of manufacture or the nationality of the manufacturer? AFAIK my new Hilux was built in Thailand and so far I've had no issues with it, our previous 2 Toyota's were made in Japan so time will tell if the new one is as good. Daryl (snip good stuff) > On the whole I tend to agree with you, but it's certainly not a given. I'd > take a new car (or relatively new) over an old one as a daily driver any > day, but only if it was Japanese as they tend to do it better than most. Yeah some good points. Maybe I should've said "provided they're properly treated and maintained...." The idea that the only thing keeping your valves from punching holes in your pistons (or doing other horrendous things to your engine) is a rubber belt is just yuck, horrid engineering! Yep it works and it's quiet and cost-effective (and it's the patch to high-horsepower and better fuel-efficiency) but it's just bad. And that's the bad side that you originally mentioned. In these days of road-side assistance there's no "half OK" (or limping home). It either runs or it's dead. I'd prefer the EA81-equipped Subie myself... but sadly mine's dead. SignatureKnob >> Our last 3 vehicles have been far from fragile, 2001 Corolla did >> 85,000klms with nothing more than regular servicing, the 2003 Hilux [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > servicing over more extended periods but require shitloads of equipment and > technical assistance to repair if and when they stop. Its true that if a modern car does have a major problem in a lot of cases they are more difficult to repair but at the same time they are much less likely to need repairing. Daryl > Its true that if a modern car does have a major problem in a lot of cases > they are more difficult to repair but at the same time they are much less > likely to need repairing. You'll be bitterly disappointed if you ever buy a new Ford :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> Its true that if a modern car does have a major problem in a lot of cases >> they are more difficult to repair but at the same time they are much less >> likely to need repairing. > > You'll be bitterly disappointed if you ever buy a new Ford :) Could be, as you know my experience with cars in recent times have been all Japanese so maybe I'm spoilt. My son isn't all that happy with the build quality of his VE SS but to an extent that's ignored because of the excellent overall performance. Daryl > Could be, as you know my experience with cars in recent times have been > all Japanese so maybe I'm spoilt. I don't think so. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain level of quality when it comes to new cars. The problem is in defining the benchmarks. I certainly don't expect a 13 thousand dollar Getz to have the same level of material quality as a 100 thousand dollar Lexus, but by the same token just because the Getz may use cheaper materials in it's construction I don't expect it's fit and finish to be any different. Where my noise gets out of joint is when manufacturers get sloppy, and seemingly for no reason other than it saving them a few bucks here and there. To give you an example, my SY Terry has just gone three years old, and it cost some poor bastard $65k to put on the road originally, yet it has the build quality of an early '90's Hyundai. It's *really* disappointing, because it could be a brilliant vehicle if it wasn't so badly let down by the complete lack of attention to detail. As it is my 2005 base model Rodeo has a quieter suspension on rough roads, and I think that's f.cking ridiculous. > My son isn't all that happy with the build quality of his VE SS but to an > extent that's ignored because of the excellent overall performance. And therein lies the problem. As long as people are willing to overlook problems in certain areas for the sake of satisfaction in others, manufacturers will keep getting away with it. I've decided to vote with my feet. This will be my last ever Australian built car as they're all too quickly heading down the American path and turning out junk. -- Regards, Noddy. > I've decided to vote with my feet. This will be my last ever Australian > built car as they're all too quickly heading down the American path and > turning out junk. Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue the rot set in quite a few years ago. > Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue > the rot set in quite a few years ago. It did, but to be fair there has been the odd good model. Now it seems they're all absolute crap. -- Regards, Noddy. > > Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue > > the rot set in quite a few years ago. > > It did, but to be fair there has been the odd good model. Now it seems > they're all absolute crap. I always said the 1988 Prelude I used to own had better fit and finish compared to any Holdens or Fords, especially the late models. Pretty sad that a (now) 20 y/o mass produced vehicle is still better built than anything we're capable of putting onto the market (apparently). >>> Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue >>> the rot set in quite a few years ago. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that a (now) 20 y/o mass produced vehicle is still better built than > anything we're capable of putting onto the market (apparently). My son had 4 Preludes of that vintage and his girlfriend also had one. No doubt they were well built and significantly better than any Falcodore but don't forget they weren't a cheap car in their day. Daryl > >>> Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue > >>> the rot set in quite a few years ago. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > No doubt they were well built and significantly better than any > Falcodore but don't forget they weren't a cheap car in their day. That is true. I'm not sure exactly how much more expensive they were compared to a Falcadore, I've assumed not by a whole lot... anyone feel free to correct me, if you really *do* know by how much :) >>>>> Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue >>>>> the rot set in quite a few years ago. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > compared to a Falcadore, I've assumed not by a whole lot... anyone feel > free to correct me, if you really *do* know by how much :) To get even close you need to compare a Prelude to a Calais or Fairmont Ghia. 1988 Prelude auto $34700.00 1988 VN Calais auto $31265.00 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia $32047.00 Prices from drive.com.au Daryl > >>>>> Yep, and don't blame you for making such a decision. Although I'd argue > >>>>> the rot set in quite a few years ago. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia $32047.00 > Prices from drive.com.au Thanks for the info Daryl. I suppose the Prelude was one of the top of the line Hondas in it's day, as were the Ghias and Calais for Holden & Ford, so the price differential isn't all that great. Mind you, $34K for a car was a lot of coin back in 1988! If only they were rear wheel drive... the car would've had huge potential with an engine swap. The handling was brilliant, especially for a FWD vehicle, IMO. > That is true. I'm not sure exactly how much more expensive they were > compared to a Falcadore, I've assumed not by a whole lot... anyone feel > free to correct me, if you really *do* know by how much :) From memory a 4ws Prelly was about $32k on the road, which was around the same money as an EA Fairmont Ghia at the time. The base model Falcon was around ten grand cheaper, but then in buying a base model all you got was a taxi in the colour of your choice. The Fairmont Ghia (Or Holden Calais) were the most logical comparison given the level of equipment standard in a Prelude. At $32k the Prelude was somewhat expensive for a 2 door 4 cylinder that seated two adults and two kids, but then it performed pretty well and was built ten times better than either of the local heroes. It also didn't have any reliability issues unlike the early VN's and most of the EA's :) -- Regards, Noddy. > > That is true. I'm not sure exactly how much more expensive they were > > compared to a Falcadore, I've assumed not by a whole lot... anyone feel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the most logical comparison given the level of equipment standard in a > Prelude. Thanks for the info Noddy. > At $32k the Prelude was somewhat expensive for a 2 door 4 cylinder that > seated two adults and two kids, but then it performed pretty well and was > built ten times better than either of the local heroes. It also didn't have > any reliability issues unlike the early VN's and most of the EA's :) God... memories of the VN... if anything, mentioning the VN only magnifies my opinion re build quality between Honda and Holden :) As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the EA and VN, I absolutely preferred driving the EA - no contest IMO. > As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how > to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the > EA and VN, I absolutely preferred driving the EA - no contest IMO. I'd prefer neither of them. :-) SignatureRegards Dan > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:57:32 +1000, Jeßus PCM code reading says: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'd prefer neither of them. :-) Well... if theres another option... :) > God... memories of the VN... if anything, mentioning the VN only > magnifies my opinion re build quality between Honda and Holden :) Lol :) > As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how > to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the > EA and VN, I absolutely preferred driving the EA - no contest IMO. The EA was no doubt the nicer drive of the two, but it also was somewhat under-powered and hideously unreliable compared to the VN. Even with the faults it had, the EA made the VN look like the world's most reliable car :) -- Regards, Noddy. > > God... memories of the VN... if anything, mentioning the VN only > > magnifies my opinion re build quality between Honda and Holden :) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > under-powered and hideously unreliable compared to the VN. Even with the > faults it had, the EA made the VN look like the world's most reliable car :) I drove a taxi in Airlie Beach for a while (*only* place I'd do that, btw). Vehicles were all VNs and EAs, I was 'given' a new VN (or next model?) to replace the EA I used. After a couple of weeks, I went back to the old EA :). The VN was a pig to drive in comparison, and certainly couldnt handle much stray RF. It would always stall when near the mobile phone towers. I particularly didn=3Ft like the VN engine, the Falcon being much smoother and I preferred the power delivery of the straight six. The Falcon interior/ergonomics was MUCH better than the Commode IMO (I've never liked Holden interiors). Basically, when you spend 12 odd hours per day in two cars, you soon learn which one is better for you. Not sure which one was the more powerful... but I probably still hold the record for the shortest time from Airlie to Schute (sp) Harbour :) > As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how > to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the > EA and VN, I absolutely preferred driving the EA - no contest IMO. My son had an EA until not that long ago and whilst I agree it was a POS rust was never a problem and I don't recall seeing any significant rust on any of the many other EA's I've seen. Daryl > > As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how > > to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rust was never a problem and I don't recall seeing any significant rust > on any of the many other EA's I've seen. I based my opinion on my experience driving cabs up at Airlie Beach many moons ago. The fleet was washed twice a day, which probably exacerbated any potential rust, especially being right on the coast. Anyway, all of the Falcons had rust to some extent (even the newer ones) coming through the paint work - whereas I dont think *any* of the Commodes showed any signs of rust - all of the oldest vehicles in the fleet were Commodores as well. The interiors were all coming apart (literally), and they ran rough as guts compared to the Falcon... but at least they didn=3Ft rust so quickly :) >>> As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how >>> to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > moons ago. The fleet was washed twice a day, which probably exacerbated > any potential rust, especially being right on the coast. Being in Melbourne the climate is less harsh on cars so maybe that's why I never saw the problem, they were also unlikely to rust underneath as that area was protected by a thick layer of oil:-) Daryl > >>> As for the EA's... Ford could teach the Italians a thing or two on how > >>> to make a car rust as quickly as possible. Having said that, between the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Being in Melbourne the climate is less harsh on cars so maybe that's why > I never saw the problem, Still, both makes were exposed to the same conditions, so I'd say the EA Fords tended to rust quicker. > they were also unlikely to rust underneath as > that area was protected by a thick layer of oil:-) Good point :) > My son had 4 Preludes of that vintage and his girlfriend also had one. > No doubt they were well built and significantly better than any Falcodore > but don't forget they weren't a cheap car in their day. No, they weren't, but then superior build quality wasn't just limited to the Prelly. I worked for Honda in the days when the 4ws Prelude was new, and I can tell you that their quality control was across the board. The Civic was a well built little car in those days, sharing a lot of the Prelude's refinement, and it was priced competitively in it's market segment (at the time I think it was a few bucks cheaper than a Pulsar). -- Regards, Noddy. > I always said the 1988 Prelude I used to own had better fit and finish > compared to any Holdens or Fords, especially the late models. Pretty sad > that a (now) 20 y/o mass produced vehicle is still better built than > anything we're capable of putting onto the market (apparently). Indeed. -- Regards, Noddy. > To give you an example, my SY Terry has just gone three years old, and > it cost some poor bastard $65k to put on the road originally, yet it has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 2005 base model Rodeo has a quieter suspension on rough roads, and I > think that's f.cking ridiculous. Ours started to clunk and knock around too in the suspension part plus the rust bloody hell new cars shouldn't have that problem at all. Front brakes has already started to shudder and the power steering is already groaning has less than 34,000k's on the clock and other bits and pieces than has needed attending too. I wouldn't be surprised next year or two it would be gone and replaced with a Touareg or X5. >> My son isn't all that happy with the build quality of his VE SS but to >> an extent that's ignored because of the excellent overall performance. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > built car as they're all too quickly heading down the American path and > turning out junk. No issues with the new HSV yet but im keeping it for quiet some time since the Rodeo gets driven more regularly the HSV will have a lot lower k's on the clock the HSV is more of a weekend car now. Then by the time I sell it god knows what's next. SignatureRegards Dan > I wouldn't be surprised next year or two it would be gone and replaced > with a Touareg or X5. Yeah, we're already looking at Touaregs and Lexus. -- Regards, Noddy. >> I wouldn't be surprised next year or two it would be gone and replaced >> with a Touareg or X5. > > Yeah, we're already looking at Touaregs and Lexus. After looking after a relatives Touareg for a few weeks when they went overseas. It is certainly an impressive car and the build quality was excellent. I would love the R50 but SFA chance of ever getting one or let alone seeing one. SignatureRegards Dan > After looking after a relatives Touareg for a few weeks when they went > overseas. It is certainly an impressive car and the build quality was > excellent. I would love the R50 but SFA chance of ever getting one or let > alone seeing one. I like them but think they're a tad on the heavy side and somewhat over-priced. I like the baby Lexus wagon (the ugly RX330). It ain't much to look at but it's a *damn* nice drive, and the attention to detail is outstanding. -- Regards, Noddy. > I like them but think they're a tad on the heavy side and somewhat > over-priced. Yeah although they do hold their value well I wouldn't mind one with a stonking v10 pushing 850 nm of torque but the price figures don't match up too well. A second hand 3.2 FSI V6 model the same as my cousins would probably the pick of the bunch. Unless I go for a turbo diesel which the Germans knows how to build some very refined ones too. > I like the baby Lexus wagon (the ugly RX330). It ain't much to look at > but it's a *damn* nice drive, and the attention to detail is > outstanding. They are very nice but each time I see the word Lexus I think of just JT and it kills it for me. :-) Driving one and then suddenly hear some preacher going on about god like a back seat preacher isn't my idea of a good drive. ;-). If our Territory can handle another year or two without falling apart see what happens. :-). SignatureRegards Dan > They are very nice but each time I see the word Lexus I think of just JT > and it kills it for me. :-) He's a w.nker for sure, and the way he prattles on about his baby Lexus is f.cking ridiculous, but at the end of the day they make a nice vehicle. Over-priced, and in the case of the IS-250 they're *very* over-priced, but nice just the same. > Driving one and then suddenly hear some preacher going on about god like > a back seat preacher isn't my idea of a good drive. ;-). Lol :) I know what you mean. When I worked for Honda in the late '80's they had such a wanky image that I would often leave the company Accord in the car-park and grab a Dunny or Falcon that had been traded home. Especially if it was on a week-end and I was meeting a few mates :) > If our Territory can handle another year or two without falling apart see > what happens. :-). Ours hasn't caused any major problems as yet, but I'm just pissed off with the quality of the thing (or lack of it). It drives very well, is dirt cheap to run on lpg, and is a very comfortable vehicle to punt around, but I'm just so disappointed with the thing that I've totally lost interest in it. I'm not actively looking for a replacement at the moment and expect to have it for some time yet if all goes well, but if I manage to strike a decent deal I'll be off-loading it straight away. -- Regards, Noddy. >> They are very nice but each time I see the word Lexus I think of just >> JT and it kills it for me. :-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > vehicle. Over-priced, and in the case of the IS-250 they're *very* > over-priced, but nice just the same. You would have to be insane to say they don't make very good cars which they literally do. Just a shame that it brings out the pompous git in some people, especially if you call their car a Toyota they really get shitty. :-) >> Driving one and then suddenly hear some preacher going on about god >> like a back seat preacher isn't my idea of a good drive. ;-). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > car-park and grab a Dunny or Falcon that had been traded home. > Especially if it was on a week-end and I was meeting a few mates :) Reminds me of seeing this bloke that has a Lexus LS430 when I saw him come out of the car he looked like me wearing a flanny shirt bald head and a goatee. Thief would be the first instants if someone sees me dressed up like a typical Aussie bloke stepping out of a Lexus. :-) >> If our Territory can handle another year or two without falling apart >> see what happens. :-). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > moment and expect to have it for some time yet if all goes well, but if > I manage to strike a decent deal I'll be off-loading it straight away. Yup strike whilst the iron is hot if something better comes across. Oh well its really the mrs's car so I got the Rodeo and Clubby wagon to keep me happy. :-) SignatureRegards Dan >>> They are very nice but each time I see the word Lexus I think of >>> just JT and it kills it for me. :-) [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > well its really the mrs's car so I got the Rodeo and Clubby wagon to > keep me happy. :-) How did you guys go getting the brake lines replaced under the recall? I booked mine in but it took them 4 weeks to get the parts in stock. While they were doing it I got them to do a 50k service and they reckon that they updated the ROM on the engine management at the same time under warantee. Anyone know what changes were introduced? SignatureKwyj. > How did you guys go getting the brake lines replaced under the recall? I > booked mine in but it took them 4 weeks to get the parts in stock. While > they were doing it I got them to do a 50k service and they reckon that > they updated the ROM on the engine management at the same time under > warantee. Anyone know what changes were introduced? I had to wait a week or so after calling the local dealer when the recall notice appeared in the paper, and they were fitted while I waited for it (they claimed 30 minutes but there wasn't much change out of 2 hours). According to their invoice they claimed they also checked the ball joints and found no problems (which is pretty interesting really considering the left front one is knocking it's head off), and that they updated the ROM to the current version. I didn't care about the ball joint as I knew they weren't going to replace it unless the thing collapsed while it was on their hoist, but I was curious about the ROM update. I asked the service drone what that was about as I hadn't asked for it and wasn't all that keen on the thing being f.cked with as I hadn't long had it converted to lpg, and he told me it was for "emissions". I pressed him for a bit more detail but gave up when it became clear that sentences with more than 4 words were beyond him, and walked out shaking my f.cking head at why anyone would take a car to a dealership. I have no idea what the ROM update was supposed to do, but all I've noticed is that the car now averages about 1 litre extra per 100km's than it did before they changed it. I've got a good mind to ring them up and complain, but I've completely lost interest in the car and couldn't be arsed. Have you noticed anything similar? -- Regards, Noddy. >> How did you guys go getting the brake lines replaced under the recall? >> I booked mine in but it took them 4 weeks to get the parts in stock. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > considering the left front one is knocking it's head off), and that they > updated the ROM to the current version. Took 2 weeks to get ours done, apparently the new "facelift" territories has new type of ball joints I wonder if they would fit them to the older versions when it comes to getting them fixed. > I didn't care about the ball joint as I knew they weren't going to > replace it unless the thing collapsed while it was on their hoist, but I > was curious about the ROM update. The ball joint still worries us but hopefully nothing goes wrong or else they will have blood on their hands. > I asked the service drone what that was about as I hadn't asked for it > and wasn't all that keen on the thing being f.cked with as I hadn't long > had it converted to lpg, and he told me it was for "emissions". I > pressed him for a bit more detail but gave up when it became clear that > sentences with more than 4 words were beyond him, and walked out shaking > my f.cking head at why anyone would take a car to a dealership. I got the same spiel about the emission's too I couldn't be f.cked asking anything else at the time. > I have no idea what the ROM update was supposed to do, but all I've > noticed is that the car now averages about 1 litre extra per 100km's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have you noticed anything similar? Only thing I noticed is ours has a rougher idle when its cold but the fuel consumption is still the same woeful. :-) SignatureRegards Dan >> Could be, as you know my experience with cars in recent times have been >> all Japanese so maybe I'm spoilt. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > seemingly for no reason other than it saving them a few bucks here and > there. Ironic that Ford Australia finally come up with a vehicle that is top class but because of a lack of cash from poor sales from other models they cut corners and ruin one of the best things they have ever done. > To give you an example, my SY Terry has just gone three years old, and it > cost some poor bastard $65k to put on the road originally, yet it has the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > has a quieter suspension on rough roads, and I think that's f.cking > ridiculous. As you say its bloody annoying that a vehicle that's well designed and excellent in many ways is let down badly by poor build quality. Its a bit like what I've thought about Land Rover Discoveries over the years, a well designed vehicle that would be unbeatable if it was built by the Japs. >> My son isn't all that happy with the build quality of his VE SS but to an >> extent that's ignored because of the excellent overall performance. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > built car as they're all too quickly heading down the American path and > turning out junk. I made that decision some time ago. My wife has decided that her Impreza is suddenly too small for carrying what she needs for our cleaning business, most of the time I've got the ute so she's thinking of a new Liberty wagon. The accountant will probably have a hissy fit if we buy 2 new cars within a few months of each other:-) Daryl > Ironic that Ford Australia finally come up with a vehicle that is top > class but because of a lack of cash from poor sales from other models they > cut corners and ruin one of the best things they have ever done. The really bizarre thing is that Ford *knows* this. Only last week Ford's CEO was interviewed by the media where he made comments along the lines of "Ford dropping the ball" and that they "weren't listening to their customer base". f.cking duh! The first law of business is that it's a *shitload* easier to keep an existing customer happy (and ultimately loyal) than it is to win back a disgruntled one from a competitor. The basic gist is that Ford thought it could get away with treating it's buyers like dirt, and is now finding out just how much that costs. > As you say its bloody annoying that a vehicle that's well designed and > excellent in many ways is let down badly by poor build quality. > Its a bit like what I've thought about Land Rover Discoveries over the > years, a well designed vehicle that would be unbeatable if it was built by > the Japs. Exactly. The Territory would be one of the best vehicles on the road if it was made by Honda, Toyota or Volkswagon. Sadly it's made by Ford, which means it's an excellent design that's poorly executed. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Its true that if a modern car does have a major problem in a lot of >> cases they are more difficult to repair but at the same time they are >> much less likely to need repairing. > > You'll be bitterly disappointed if you ever buy a new Ford :) Unless its a European one like a Mondeo. :-) SignatureRegards Dan > what's its ANCAP safety rating ;-) About as safe as giving babies knives I guess. :-) --- Regards Dan >> what's its ANCAP safety rating ;-) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Regards > Dan so your saying I shouldn't have thrown that set of free steak knives over the fence at the local ABC child care centre last night............ Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > so your saying I shouldn't have thrown that set of free steak knives over > the fence at the local ABC child care centre last night............ It depends if it helped. :-) -- Regards Dan. >> so your saying I shouldn't have thrown that set of free steak knives over >> the fence at the local ABC child care centre last night............ [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Regards > Dan. well the crying and noise eventually stopped, so I guess I can finally get a decent sleep in for a change ;-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> what's its ANCAP safety rating ;-) > > About as safe as giving babies knives I guess. :-) You're not supposed to do that. One set of cheap chinese knives I bought even had an Engrish warning label telling me so. It said something like: "WARNING - Not to be inserted into small children" I assume inserting them in larger kids must be fine......... SignatureKwyj. |
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