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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / November 2009Cost of Servicing - where does it all go?
Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. Included in the cost was oil and a filter. Around $60 for materials, I s'pose. So, about $200 for labor? How long would a typical service like this take and what is the typical hourly rate of a dealer based service centre these days?  SignaturePlease don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church > Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > hourly > rate of a dealer based service centre these days? Apparently, you can get servicing done by any qualified mechanic, as long as they follow the servicing routine. Some tune-up and lube joints were advertising this in NSW at least, a while back. Jason >> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >they follow the servicing routine. Some tune-up and lube joints were >advertising this in NSW at least, a while back. If you mean without affecting the warranty... so long as the servicing has been carried according to the manufacturer's schedule and the problem isn't a result of faulty workmanship, who does the servicing isn't likely to be an issue. The exception is extended warranties (for anyone who happens to think they're worth having). I've always done the majority of my own servicing and I've never had a problem with warranty claims. That even includes work the dealer isn't likely to advise if they do the servicing... normally they'll only tell the owner about faults which are safety issues or likely to lead to something more serious. I don't own a repair business and aren't a member of any trade association. Of course the dealer has to handle the actual warranty work, for which he's paid by the vehicle manufacturer. Extended warranties work as an insurance policy taken out by the dealer (the insurance company pays for the repair). SignatureJohn H >>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > isn't likely to be an issue. The exception is extended warranties > (for anyone who happens to think they're worth having). And genuine parts must be used or forget any warranty claims. >>>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > And genuine parts must be used or forget any warranty claims. That's why I buy oil and filter from my local Toyota dealer where I get a good discount(approx 33.5% off). Daryl > Apparently, you can get servicing done by any qualified mechanic, as long > as they follow the servicing routine. Some tune-up and lube joints were > advertising this in NSW at least, a while back. It's always been law that a new car warranty is not conditional on the car being dealership serviced, and you can have a new car serviced by anyone. Provided it's done in accordance to the manufacturer's recommendations you don't even need to be a qualified mechanic. In fact, a lot of new car owner's manuals give instructions on how to change oils and filters. -- Regards, Noddy. Jason James wrote... > Apparently, you can get servicing done by any qualified mechanic, as long as > they follow the servicing routine. Some tune-up and lube joints were > advertising this in NSW at least, a while back. I've considered taking the car to a garage which isn't a dealer based joint. But when I had my SS it had EFI problems which the local "non-dealer" mechanics couldn't fix as they didn't have the specialised gear that GM/H supposedly only sells or allows the dealers to have. I would assume that Mazda is the same in this regard. So, if I need a tuneup or what passes for one on a modern car these days will Joe's Auto Repairs be able to handle the job? > I've considered taking the car to a garage which isn't a dealer based > joint. But [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > able > to handle the job? There's very little on today's cars that is actually "tuneable", so your average corner garage should be able to take care of most of your needs. Most of the equipment required to find faults on modern cars isn't exclusive to dealerships. Vehicle manufacturers generally use commercially available equipment that might be slightly tailored to their own needs (often by no more than putting the vehicle manufacturer's name on the machine with a pretty label), and this equipment is usually available to anyone who wants to buy it. The problem is that it's usually insanely expensive, and if you find you have to buy three or four different types to cater for a range of different makes and models then the costs really start to get out of control and will ultimately be passed on to people like you. As someone who ran a small independent service & repair business for around 15 years I can tell you quite honestly that the equipment and tooling costs are a major expense, and if I was in the business today I'd have to think *very* long and hard about laying out 8 thousand bucks on a diagnostic scanner that I *might* use two or three times a month if I was lucky if and when the vehicles it would work with came through to door. For this reason there would be some independent service businesses who couldn't help you on the odd occasion simply because it's not financially viable to own the necessary equipment. Still, in having said that, most would be more than capable of taking car of your regular servicing needs, and usually far cheaper than any dealer. -- Regards, Noddy. Noddy wrote... > when the vehicles it would work with came through to door. For this reason > there would be some independent service businesses who couldn't help you on > the odd occasion simply because it's not financially viable to own the > necessary equipment. Still, in having said that, most would be more than > capable of taking car of your regular servicing needs, and usually far > cheaper than any dealer. That's what I did for a while with the SS. A mate's brother had a business. His cards were posted on the bulletin boards at work and offered a discount, as well as pick up and delivery to work (we're 12 km out of town). He was doing alright, catering for the usual services and so on. But it was when I had EFI problems that he couldn't fix is when I decided to take it to the local Holden dealer. $1,200 later (fuel pump, some EFI gizmo, fuel regulator or whatever) the problem was fixed. Then it was back the mate's brother for regular servicing. > He was doing alright, catering for the usual services and so on. But it > was when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > regulator or > whatever) the problem was fixed. They made sure they covered the problem then? :) -- Regards, Noddy. Noddy wrote... > They made sure they covered the problem then? :) More than likely. Thing is, not being an expert with EFI they could have sold me a new car to replace the old one because the "EFI was unfixable".... Whatever, I could not prove that either component was not faulty. I suppose that I could have withheld payment but it went through (via the lease management mob). Once they have your dough it's hard to get it back. > Whatever, I could not prove that either component was not faulty. I > suppose that > I could have withheld payment but it went through (via the lease > management > mob). Once they have your dough it's hard to get it back. It certainly is. -- Regards, Noddy. >I've considered taking the car to a garage which isn't a dealer based joint. But >when I had my SS it had EFI problems which the local "non-dealer" mechanics [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >what passes for one on a modern car these days will Joe's Auto Repairs be able >to handle the job? There are no special diagnostics involved in routine servicing (the stuff listed in the service schedule). Nor has the routine servicing required by a modern car ever been easier to do IMHO... which is why the dealer (and possibly Joe as well) uses monkeys to do most of it. In the event your car develops a fault the biggest disadvantage Joe faces over the dealer is lack of information. Car manufacturers' current policy is to confine that information to their dealers as far as possible. It's long been a US legal requirement that all manufacturers use a common diagnostic system, which should've flowed through to everywhere else by now.... http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/obdprog/obdprog.htm Joe should have an OBDII scan tool of some description if he wants to stay in the game. Extracting essential fault codes didn't ought be a problem but the information needed to rectify a particular fault might be. In all other instances Joe should be able to do at least the same job as the dealer, probably at a significantly lower cost to you. If you happen to subscribe to "Choice", they did a survey on car servicing a while back (mighta been last year) using cars inspected by a skilled mechanic before and after servicing. The majority of dealers didn't rate highly. SignatureJohn H John_H wrote... > If you happen to subscribe to "Choice", they did a survey on car Missus does, online. > servicing a while back (mighta been last year) using cars inspected by > a skilled mechanic before and after servicing. The majority of > dealers didn't rate highly. Thanks. Shall get her to search for it. > Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > hourly > rate of a dealer based service centre these days? 1. Read the service information booklet assuming you have them which should list what is due to be done at the service interval and 2. Refer to your itemised bill. Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, oils and genuine filter probably a bit more than $60. Then there are the miscellaneous (read BS) charges and possibly environmental charges to prop up the GP. >> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > miscellaneous (read BS) charges and possibly environmental charges to prop > up the GP. $60 for oil/filter is a bit steep. The more expensive oils are around $25 5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres rated up to CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Jason >>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jason Fuchs and filter for a falcadore 38$ >>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > $25 5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres > rated up to CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Oil is about $5 to $10 a litre and genuine filters like dealers would use on some models are not that cheap. >>>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Oil is about $5 to $10 a litre and genuine filters like dealers would use > on some models are not that cheap. Yikes! I must live i rumplestilskin land. Jason > Yikes! I must live i rumplestilskin land. No, just the real world. Dealership service departments are in Utopia. For them that is, not you and me :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, oils and >> genuine filter probably a bit more than $60. Then there are the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres rated up to >CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Assuming it's either a Tribute (Mazda) or Tribeca (Subaru), but at a mere $259 for the service it's far more likely the former. :) Genuine Mazda oil filter is around $25 RRP. Recommended oil is 5W-30 or 10W-30. Cheapest I've ever seen it in a supermarket outlet is around $32 for 5 litre (Castrol Magnatec), typically it's closer to $40 -- full synthetics, which the dealer isn't likely to use, are dearer again. Capacity for the Tribute V6 is 5.2 litre. I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the dealer... but that's another story entirely. ;-) SignatureJohn H >>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, oils and >>> genuine filter probably a bit more than $60. Then there are the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the > dealer... but that's another story entirely. ;-) I referred to the driver's handbook, and 20-50 covers the temp range. No bull:-) The oil is marked OK for multi-valve. Jason >> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the >> dealer... but that's another story entirely. ;-) > >I referred to the driver's handbook, and 20-50 covers the temp range. No >bull:-) Err, be very careful of *that* diagram in the driver's handbook, which is only intended to show the relationship between temperature and viscosity requirements (every modern handbook I've ever seen has exactly the same diagram). It is not a recommendation. Somewhere in the handbook, or the service manual, there will be one and I'm guessing it won't be 20W-50 for any car built in the last 15 years, if not 20. >The oil is marked OK for multi-valve. Prolly suit a 1915 Stutz Bearcat! :) SignatureJohn H >>> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >>> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Prolly suit a 1915 Stutz Bearcat! :) probably not, the makers are cutting down on the amount of zinc and phosphorus in oils because of the catalytic converters, specialist oils like Penrite and Brad Penn race oils contain more of the zinc and Phos., older engines need this because of the friction on the lifters and camshafts. >>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, oils and >>> genuine filter probably a bit more than $60. Then there are the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the > dealer... but that's another story entirely. ;-) Genuine filter for my 09 TD Hilux cost $12.17 plus GST. Oil supplied by the dealer in Toyota labelled containers is "20W-50SH/SJ" cost $19.10ea plus GST. I questioned the 20-50 and was told that's what Toyota recommends, I check my service book and it agrees. Daryl >> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I questioned the 20-50 and was told that's what Toyota recommends, I >check my service book and it agrees. I was specifically thinking petrol when I wrote it. Diesels are an entirely different ball game though, oddly, the oil spec you're quoting is a petrol engine rating. I'd expect a modern diesel without a particulate filter to be recommending 15W-40 CI-4... SH/SJ are API petrol engine ratings and obsolete ones at that. Presumably you're also getting discount on the filter and Toyota branded oil as parts?... The wood ducks who go through the service department almost certainly don't! :) It's also a fair bet they don't get the Toyota branded oil either! :) SignatureJohn H >>> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >>> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a particulate filter to be recommending 15W-40 CI-4... SH/SJ are API > petrol engine ratings and obsolete ones at that. Didn't look right to me either but the label on the container says for petrol and diesel engines, "specially formulated by Toyota for Toyota vehicles". > Presumably you're also getting discount on the filter and Toyota > branded oil as parts?... About 33.5% discount. The wood ducks who go through the service > department almost certainly don't! :) > > It's also a fair bet they don't get the Toyota branded oil either! :) I know the spare parts bloke quite well, (he owns a Westfield Clubman) and when I queried the oil he says its exactly the same as what their workshop uses. Daryl >>>> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >>>> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >and when I queried the oil he says its exactly the same as what their >workshop uses. I's suspect most dealerships would use an oilco "repair shop special"... which isn't to suggest anything devious, other than the markup. The Toyota oil will almost certainly be a repackaged standard oilco product line. So does the workshop use Toyota branded oil, or the same thing bought in bulk from an oilco?... If it's the former they're probably the only dealership in the country that does. ;-) It also occurs to me that the Toyota branded oil probably isn't what the label says. There's absolutely no way I'd be running a petrol spec oil in a modern diesel. FWIW I buy 15W-40 CI-4 in 200 litre drums for diesel fleet use, but not the "repair shop special", which is probably the same thing but the oilco now restrict who they'll sell it to. I pay around $3.50 per litre, the "special" is probably around $2.50 to an approved user. I doubt if any workshop that qualifies would pass it up. SignatureJohn H >>>>> I'd also seriously think twice about using something labelled 20W-50 >>>>> in anything built in the last 20 years, as no doubt would the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > in bulk from an oilco?... If it's the former they're probably the only > dealership in the country that does. ;-) I doubt they buy it in 5Lt containers for the workshop but if they get it for a good enough price maybe they do buy it from Toyota. > It also occurs to me that the Toyota branded oil probably isn't what > the label says. There's absolutely no way I'd be running a petrol > spec oil in a modern diesel. Compared to the labelling on most oil containers the label on the Toyota oil container is very sparse. Owners manual says "Diesel engine, For Australia, Singapore and New Zealand- G-DLD-1,API CF-4 OR API CF OR ACEA B1". Interesting that the chart lists 5W-30 as the "preferred" grade but 20w-50, 15w-40 and 10w-30 are OK. > FWIW I buy 15W-40 CI-4 in 200 litre drums for diesel fleet use, but > not the "repair shop special", which is probably the same thing but > the oilco now restrict who they'll sell it to. I pay around $3.50 per > litre, the "special" is probably around $2.50 to an approved user. I > doubt if any workshop that qualifies would pass it up. With a discount I still paid about $4.00 per litre, must be a good earner to be able to buy at $2.50 and then sell it for at least 4 times that. Daryl >Owners manual says "Diesel engine, For Australia, Singapore and New >Zealand- G-DLD-1,API CF-4 OR API CF OR ACEA B1". >Interesting that the chart lists 5W-30 as the "preferred" grade but >20w-50, 15w-40 and 10w-30 are OK. Which suggests they sell Hilux diesels in all sorts of third world countries and the same recommendation does for all! CF-4 is an obsolete spec... Ch-4 replaced it in 1998 and CI-4 replaced CH-4 in 2002. The essential difference is the sulphur content of the fuel, with the latest oils being unsuitable for high sulphur fuels. Not an issue here in Oz. I'm not aware of anyone who currently markets a 5W-30 or 10W-30 diesel oil but if they did it'd certainly be a full synthetic, which isn't usually an economic option (at least for those of us who do the sums). If it were mine it'd be getting 15W-40 CI-4... which is by far the best spec heavy duty diesel engine oil available in Oz today at an affordable price. :) SignatureJohn H > If it were mine it'd be getting 15W-40 CI-4... which is by far the > best spec heavy duty diesel engine oil available in Oz today at an > affordable price. :) I'll keep that in mind when it due for its next service which will probably only be a couple of months away. The only concern is warranty, by using Toyota branded oil and filter there is no issue as I can prove that I used genuine parts, I can't imagine that it would be a huge issue but you never know. Daryl >> If it were mine it'd be getting 15W-40 CI-4... which is by far the >> best spec heavy duty diesel engine oil available in Oz today at an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >there is no issue as I can prove that I used genuine parts, I can't >imagine that it would be a huge issue but you never know. Filter has to be a genuine part, the oil only needs to meet the recommended spec... the brand of oil isn't a warranty issue. Nor would any car manufacturer risk upsetting the oilcos by claiming their own brand of oil was somehow superior. SignatureJohn H >>> If it were mine it'd be getting 15W-40 CI-4... which is by far the >>> best spec heavy duty diesel engine oil available in Oz today at an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > would any car manufacturer risk upsetting the oilcos by claiming their > own brand of oil was somehow superior. you mean like Mazda do with their oil for the Rotary engine ;-) I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, expensive Mazda branded oil or you void the warranty. Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> Filter has to be a genuine part, the oil only needs to meet the >> recommended spec... the brand of oil isn't a warranty issue. Nor [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, >expensive Mazda branded oil or you void the warranty. Can you cite any sort of reference that isn't hearsay? I could a name some who've tried it on but didn't succeed. I could also come up with examples where the recommended oil was only available from one supplier, and consequently frequently wasn't used, even by the dealers. What I can't provide is a single instance where the warranty was legally void as a result. Which isn't to say that Mazda, or any other manufacturer, doesn't ever recommend and or market a particular product that isn't the best for the job. SignatureJohn H >>> Filter has to be a genuine part, the oil only needs to meet the >>> recommended spec... the brand of oil isn't a warranty issue. Nor [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > recommend and or market a particular product that isn't the best for > the job. All our departmental cars and some plant, were oil-changed with the same oil "Vanellus"IIRC. Either Shell or BP. Jason >All our departmental cars and some plant, were oil-changed with the same oil >"Vanellus"IIRC. Either Shell or BP. Most of my own vehicles, plant and machinery get the same oil, depending on whether they're diesel or petrol. To which I'd add, the oils are selected to meet the manufacturers' specs for the 20 or so different engines involved... it isn't simply a matter of using whatever happens to be cheapest on the supermarket shelf. I could probably cut it down to one size fits all if all the diesels were light duty (ie car engines). Most repair shops, including dealers, do exactly the same thing and some oil companies offer special "trade" deals on suitable oils. BP Vanellus is actually a range of engine oils but it's likely that one of the oils in the Vanellus range would've come under that category. SignatureJohn H >>> Filter has to be a genuine part, the oil only needs to meet the >>> recommended spec... the brand of oil isn't a warranty issue. Nor [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Can you cite any sort of reference that isn't hearsay? Unfortunately no, I did read it somewhere in one of the motoring mags so take it at face value :-) thats why I prefaced it with "I am led to believe" :-) > I could a name some who've tried it on but didn't succeed. I could > also come up with examples where the recommended oil was only [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > recommend and or market a particular product that isn't the best for > the job. Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > you mean like Mazda do with their oil for the Rotary engine ;-) > I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, > expensive Mazda branded oil or you void the warranty. If that really is the case then it's a perfect reason to never own one :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> you mean like Mazda do with their oil for the Rotary engine ;-) >> I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, >> expensive Mazda branded oil or you void the warranty. > >If that really is the case then it's a perfect reason to never own one :) Not that I'd need another one! :) There's probably some basis to the story though as a quick check through the lube guides I've got all but one say "refer to Mazda". It's therefore a fair bet as to who supplies Mazda with the "special" oil. It's also part of that particular oilco's standard range. It's not unusual, I've seen it before, and it certainly won't be a warranty issue if the owner uses the correct spec oil from the right oilco. It might not even be a warranty issue if they don't. SignatureJohn H >>> you mean like Mazda do with their oil for the Rotary engine ;-) >>> I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > warranty issue if the owner uses the correct spec oil from the right > oilco. It might not even be a warranty issue if they don't. I have been looking at some American Mazda forums and they all say 5W20 for the RX8, though that would be a complete waste in a hot climate, or anywhere above the NSW/QLD border :-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >I have been looking at some American Mazda forums and they all say 5W20 for >the RX8, though that would be a complete waste in a hot climate, or anywhere >above the NSW/QLD border :-) Can I ask why you think it's inappropriate for a hot climate? It's not nearly as simple as viscosity ratings when it comes to manufacturers' specs. Manufacturers issue a specification, which an oil company may or may not decide to comply with. An existing product may meet that spec, or it may require a change in formulation. To see what complies with whose specification you need to go to the oilco product data sheet and crosscheck their listed specs with the manufacturer's service manual. The label on the container tells SFA. It's a fair bet, but not a dead cert, that what's listed in the oilco lube guide will comply... but you can't rely on it, and I know plenty of instances where it didn't. Presumably if an oilco makes a recommendation without the compliance they'd back their product in the event of a problem (and I do know of instances where that's happened, but I wouldn't rely on it). In the case of the RX-8 there are certainly a number of oilcos that don't make any recommendation. The only one I know of that does recommends the same oil as I use in my own cars (which ought indicate it's not unduly expensive). ;-) FWIW it's a 10W-30 viscosity rating (and I live a long way north of the NSW/Qld border) :) (They may not be the only oilco that has a recommendation for the RX-8 as my collection of lube guides is by means complete.) SignatureJohn H >> you mean like Mazda do with their oil for the Rotary engine ;-) >> I am led to believe that the RX8 requires the use of their special, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. 12l per 100k from a 1.3L is another reason to never own one :-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > 12l per 100k from a 1.3L is another reason to never own one :-) That and the fact that if you put 2 people and luggage in one you'd get to your destination quicker on a Moped. -- Regards, Noddy. >>> If it were mine it'd be getting 15W-40 CI-4... which is by far the >>> best spec heavy duty diesel engine oil available in Oz today at an [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > would any car manufacturer risk upsetting the oilcos by claiming their > own brand of oil was somehow superior. I could imagine that an oil co might put up a fight if an oil that meet the spec was blamed for an engine failure so you are probably right, I'll check out what's available before the next service. Daryl > I doubt they buy it in 5Lt containers for the workshop but if they get it > for a good enough price maybe they do buy it from Toyota. It'd be more likely that they buy it from the oil company that packages it for Toyota, *if* they're using that in their service customer's cars. -- Regards, Noddy. >>> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > $60 for oil/filter is a bit steep. Synthetic oil and a decent filter will easily hit that (RRP that is, not dealer prices). > The more expensive oils are around $25 Maybe at trade prices. > 5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres rated up to > CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Gulf oil? Not an oil you see much of anywhere. I do know of it but you're unlikely to find it in the average shop/garage. <snip> > $60 for oil/filter is a bit steep. The more expensive oils are around $25 > 5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres rated up to > CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Depends on the vehicle. I wouldn't use 20W50 in a modern multivalve engine, it could potentially overheat and sludge up. We use 10W30 on most of our servicing and 5W30 Synthetic on high end V6 motors and CR Diesels. Similarly these CRDI motors tend to have slightly more expensive filters. SignatureDeevo Geraldton Western Australia > $60 for oil/filter is a bit steep. The more expensive oils are around $25 > 5ltres and $10 for a filter. I use Gulf 20-50 for $10 4 litres rated up to > CJ or similar, plus a 4 pk of filters for $15 Yeah, but you're not running a new car service department that's paying for the dealer principal's 9 million square metre house in Brighton :) -- Regards, Noddy. > Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, What's the apprentice paid p/h these days. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, >> > What's the apprentice paid p/h these days. About as much as the slack bastards deserve, probably. > >> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, > >> > > What's the apprentice paid p/h these days. > > About as much as the slack bastards deserve, probably. I take it they still service cars unsupervised these days, doing the bulk of the rip-off servicing work. Fill me and others in on the goings on in a 21st century dealer workshop, if you would be so kind. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I take it they still service cars unsupervised these days, doing the > bulk of the rip-off servicing work. Ofcourse, but then servicing a car isn't brain surgery is it and as other here can testify to, you don't need to be qualified to know how to drop the oil and spin on a filter. > Fill me and others in on the goings on in a 21st century dealer > workshop, if you would be so kind. Where do I start... all I can say is that dealerships deserve their reputation and that is without most people really knowing how dodgey the people involved in it really are. I should write a book... >>>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I should write a book... If you did I would buy a copy :-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > Where do I start... all I can say is that dealerships deserve their > reputation and that is without most people really knowing how dodgey the > people involved in it really are. > > I should write a book... It'd make for interesting reading. The local Ford dealership had a first year apprentice doing recall brake hose replacements on Territorys when I took the car down to have them done a few months ago, and he was three months into his first year. I'm not kidding :) -- Regards, Noddy. > >>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I should write a book... You could do a page for our website.. to update my ancient crap :-) Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> >>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Al Hell I could set him up with his own domain and hosting for free if needed. Domains cost me about $4US and I have unlimited bandwidth and over 2 gig of spare space, I currently host a couple of sports clubs I am in plus a couple of personal pages (that are in dire need of updating) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > >> >>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, > >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > spare space, I currently host a couple of sports clubs I am in plus a couple > of personal pages (that are in dire need of updating) You said Hell but you don't believe in such a place and his page on our site would be FREE.. simply emailed to us. Long as he doesn't nick any of me gardayum insults.. mine mine :-) The main problem with any site is the advertising to interested parties that it actually exists. What are you thinking, a nationwide ad in newspapers? What would be more useful would be a site as you suggest for all our unwanted car/vehicle parts, wrecking etc, maintained by someone such as yourself perhaps? Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> > In article <00758ed3$0$26864$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >> > nicetry@migo.com [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> > You said Hell I also say "Jesus Christ!!! and "Goddamn" a lot, being raised as a Catholic you find all the old curses and invective still have a way of rolling off the tongue :-P but you don't believe in such a place and his page on our site > would be FREE.. simply emailed to us. Long as he doesn't nick any of me > gardayum insults.. mine mine :-) as they should be, no argument from me there :-) though we should give Noddy a page just for his insults, throw a few banner ads on it and retire from the income stream LOL > The main problem with any site is the advertising to interested parties > that it > actually exists. What are you thinking, a nationwide ad in newspapers? put it in our usenet sigs and it would eventualy generate a good google rank, the more people used it the faster we would get to the top 10. > What would be more useful would be a site as you suggest for all our > unwanted car/vehicle parts, wrecking etc, maintained by someone such as > yourself > perhaps? would not be hard to set up but maintaining it would be the bitch, how many "trading" sites have you seen where stuff is still there 2 or 3 years after it was sold, all because the initial seller is now rid of it and couldnt care less if he notified everyone else that it is sold. Last site I maintained was a V8 supercar tipping site, went well for the first year but after that everyone forgot about it (including me) and I eventualy just deleted the domain and site. > Al Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >>> > In article <00758ed3$0$26864$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, > >>> nicetry@migo.com [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > first year but after that everyone forgot about it (including me) and I > eventualy just deleted the domain and site. Vkham is a prime example , 30 days and deleted which looks simple enough >> Al > would not be hard to set up but maintaining it would be the bitch, how many > "trading" sites have you seen where stuff is still there 2 or 3 years after > it was sold, all because the initial seller is now rid of it and couldnt > care less if he notified everyone else that it is sold. Ashley you would just need to advertise the parts with details in text, with an email address (at instead of @) of the seller and/or a web link to the sellers page. Shirley the seller would soon grow tired of emails if it was sold. If your site was ad free and in text, would be quick and easy to find stuff unlike some of the bloated useless flashing sh.t f.ck*ng sites that one gives up on... that would be a complete pain in the arse to maintain. If it were a zipped text document, one could download all ads for later reading, kinda like a FREE monthly newspaper. Maybe update it once a month, placing the old ads in a dated file and anything new or repeated if people want to extend their ad to the current month. Typical ad: One unused genuine USSR Lada Niva tyre and wheel, pick up or roll home. $5 or swap for XP Ford... but unlike Noddy, I'd rather the $5. Location: email: Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>> >>>> Labour is probably somewhere between then $100 and $140 p/h, >>> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > of spare space, I currently host a couple of sports clubs I am in plus a > couple of personal pages (that are in dire need of updating) WHo is the hosting company ? the Aussies I have been usuing ,last year went from $60 to $104 a year and now want to raise it to $200 a year nfwitw is my response >>> In article <00758ed3$0$26864$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >>> nicetry@migo.com [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > and now want to raise it to $200 a year > nfwitw is my response 1and1 internet, (http://1and1.com) US and EU based, $15 a quarter, all the bandwidth you can eat and cheap TLD name registration Windows or Linux based servers (your choice) couple of thousand email address with forwarding if needed, all the bells and whistles actually :-) I think the only caveat is that you have to be a US or Canadian resident to register, fortunately I had a US address many years ago, that I initially used :-) I would have to check to see if they now offer outside the US/Can but you can check that yourself, never had an outage, never had a problem with a bill, only had to call tech support once but that was my own fault for not reading instructions properly (don't talk to me about Boats, I know Boats!!!) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >>>> In article <00758ed3$0$26864$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >>>> nicetry@migo.com [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > fault for not reading instructions properly (don't talk to me about > Boats, I know Boats!!!) Just checked and they appear to host for pretty much anywhere now Will await the reply to email although I have until next june to establish things , funny thing is I queried my current suppliers and they got real bent under preassure and refused to match others , looks like they will lose a LO of current customers judging from comments in the forums about the rise .I find more then $2.00 a week excessive these days . >> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > miscellaneous (read BS) charges and possibly environmental charges to prop > up the GP. Geez, and people complain when we charge $87.50 per hour labour. The only extras beyond filters and oils are degreasing (which makes for easier spotting of any oil leaks and the like) and disposal of oils which is a cost for us. There are some other workshops that will only do an oil and filter change and call it a service but on the whole we stick to the manufacturers schedule which means things like transmission checks, repacking of wheel bearings and cabin filters if needed. When some of these are ignored it can lead to significant costs down the track if you're not careful. SignatureDeevo Geraldton Western Australia > Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. > > Included in the cost was oil and a filter. Around $60 for materials, I > s'pose. Try 30 bucks. That'd be closer to the mark, > So, about $200 for labor? And then some by the sounds of it. > How long would a typical service like this take and what is the typical > hourly > rate of a dealer based service centre these days? The average dealer's service department hourly rate is about 110 bucks these days, and by the sounds of things you got a minor service done which is just an oil and filter change. It should take no more than half an hour on your average car unless the "technician" is Stevie Wonder and he has to do it by "feel". Back in the late 80's I was a service manager for a Honda car dealership, and the hourly rate in those days was 55 bucks an hour. We had 6 techie's in the workshop and would service on average around 35 cars per day. We bought our oil in bulk from Valvoline for $1.20 per litre and sold it to the service customer for $12.50 per litre. Being a dealership we used "genuine parts", but there was a huge mark up in it all. Nippon denso plugs in pretty "Honda" boxes that cost a little over a buck retailed for $4.50 each, the average oil filter cost 7 dollars but was out the door to the service customer for about 22 bucks, and so on. Brake pads were a *massive* money maker as they would often "retail" for around three times the buy price and as they were as soft as butter and needed to be changed almost every 20k km's. It's been 20 years since I had anything to do with dealership servicing, but I don't expect anything has changed for the better. The purpose of owning a dealership isn't to make money selling cars, as there's very little money to be made selling cars. Selling the cars is just a means to an end, and that end is to have a service department as that's where the *real* money is. Every time a dealer sells a new car he puts another service customer on the books and gaurantees himself a steady source of income. The dealership I worked for made around 40 grand a month on average *just* on the oil used for servicing. Needless to say, anyone who takes a car to a dealership to be serviced might as well walk in with a sign around their neck saying "Please bore me a new one as I'm incredibly gullable" because that's how every service department sees them. -- Regards, Noddy. > > Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. > > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Whereas at Mitsubish in the '80s, the service was slightly more complicated, involved changing the rings. The EPA should have charged Mitsubishi with an oil disposal fee.. into the atmosphere :-) Warning. Don't read this: Mitsubishi made the Zero so a one way trip into a battleship was what they should have done with their smoky engined cars. It would have made good entertainment and attracted tourist and customers to the front end of a battleship on the lot. Strap in the first year disposable apprentice (after his first root with a $2 slut you all chipped in for.. dusted with flour and dressed as a Geisha of course), tell him he's going to die anyway from STD's, a headband so he looks cool, no need to drug him because he's already high as a kite, push start in gear with no brakes or return spring on the throttle, hands tied to the steering wheel... and a safety feature, a bacteria inflated rotting roo air bag.. or other aged roadkill substite, sheep etc. You did read it..tsk tsk. Al SignatureDisclaimer: Some of the above could be just plain farkin wrong. Use of the above information is at the readers own risk. Reading this worthless disclaimer proves beyond doubt that you read worthless disclaimers. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > neck saying "Please bore me a new one as I'm incredibly gullable" because > that's how every service department sees them. I understand that mark ups are necessary to ensure the survival of a business but gouging is another matter. In defence of dealer mechanics, some tasks are best left to dealers. This would generally be those mystery faults that can only be revealed by using specialist diagnostic equipment. I had struggled with an electrical gremlin for some time and finally sent it to the dealer. They located the fault and fixed it straight away. Yes, it cost but it was quick/painless compared to the weeks of fruitless testing and fiddling. Sometimes experience and diagnostic equipment is the only way to find faults.... > I understand that mark ups are necessary to ensure the survival of a > business but gouging is another matter. And a very profitable one too :) > In defence of dealer mechanics, some tasks are best left to dealers. If my experience with dealerships and their mechanics is anything to go by, there would be very few examples that I could think of where this would be the case. > This would generally be those mystery faults that can only be revealed by > using specialist diagnostic equipment. I had struggled with an electrical > gremlin for some time and finally sent it to the dealer. They located the > fault and fixed it straight away. Yes, it cost but it was quick/painless > compared to the weeks of fruitless testing and fiddling. Sometimes > experience and diagnostic equipment is the only way to find faults.... I had a similar incident myself a few days ago, but it was slightly different in that a dealer was the *only* one who could program in the necessary security code to solve the problem. It wasn't a case of them being the best people to do the job, but one of them being the *only* people who could do it. -- Regards, Noddy. > > I understand that mark ups are necessary to ensure the survival of a > > business but gouging is another matter. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. "Jeep at half the price", you could say... > "Jeep at half the price", you could say... You could, but I wouldn't :P -- Regards, Noddy. > Just had our Tribby serviced (60,000km). Cost - $259. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How long would a typical service like this take and what is the typical hourly > rate of a dealer based service centre these days? 20,000klm service on my 09 Hilux costs $176.00 at the dealer, did it myself for $58.00 and have 3.5lts of oil left over (had to buy 10lts, it takes 6.5lts). Book says 0.9hrs for the service so their labour rate is in excess of $100 per hour. Have a look in your service book and see what is done at a 60,000klms service, most likely its a $260.00 oil and filter change and not much more. Daryl |
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