 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / November 2009SMH - Is speed really the killer?
SMH, 30/10/09 http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html No, it's not speed that's the killer, it's the brick walls and power poles. > No, it's not speed that's the killer, it's the brick walls and power poles. Never seen one of them run over a pedestrian. Saw a pedestrian dead under a truck once... laying in a big round pool of blood. Guess he should have used the crossing with lights. Al  SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > No, it's not speed that's the killer, it's the brick walls and power poles. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > SMH, 30/10/09 > > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html Hope the article increases debate on the issue. Our current system of speed limits and enforcement has taken any pleasure out of driving and turned driving into a chore that most dread. Daryl >> SMH, 30/10/09 >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Our current system of speed limits and enforcement has taken any > pleasure out of driving and turned driving into a chore that most dread. Not me Dazza, I still love driving, Freeway/Motorway speeds too. :-P SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ :> SMH, 30/10/09 :> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :Our current system of speed limits and enforcement has taken any :pleasure out of driving and turned driving into a chore that most dread. Noticed on the way through Vic last week, the signs worded to the effect that driving slower is safer than driving faster - given how good the Hume Fwy/Hwy is - nice and wide, smooth and straight for so many KM - I'd rather drive faster so I have something to keep my attention on, if anything. I also noticed that NSW is still using those lame 'nobody thinks big of you' billboards. They obviously must think the average mental age of their drivers is about 15. > :> SMH, 30/10/09 > :> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you' billboards. They obviously must think the average mental age of > their drivers is about 15. Hmmmm. How old are you again? SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >SMH, 30/10/09 > >http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html Whether you happen to agree or disagree with the article, the author is a fuckwit of long standing. ;-) SignatureJohn H > SMH, 30/10/09 > > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html Interesting article, personally I found the most significant quote to be the following: "But can Germany be compared with Australia? Unlike the undemanding licence tests that apply in Australian states, German motorists must pass a challenging regimen that includes high-speed highway driving competence in varying weather conditions." In short until we stop having an LCD approach to licencing and actually have people earn their MDLs the speed limits are probably safer to remain where they are. SignatureDeevo Geraldton Western Australia : > SMH, 30/10/09 : > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : people earn their MDLs the speed limits are probably safer to remain where : they are. Unfortunately, you could only get your licence around 25 days a year in SEQld then to get the varying weather conditions. As soon as they teach people to drive rather than pass the test the road toll make slow somewhat. It comes down to the laziness of instructors. "Ive got a XX% pass rate so therefore Im a better teacher" more then likely that instructor should be assessed more often. > : > SMH, 30/10/09 > : > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It comes down to the laziness of instructors. "Ive got a XX% pass rate so therefore Im a better > teacher" more then likely that instructor should be assessed more often. I have taught several people to drive and each of them state I am an arsehole to learn with , guess I have something right then because they all can drive and still passed the test with so far no smashes or injury's apart from one motorcycle rider who is male young and bullit proof atm . > : > SMH, 30/10/09 > : > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > therefore Im a better > teacher" more then likely that instructor should be assessed more often. I'm led to believe that the penalties if you have a prang at the higher speeds on autobahns their penalties are severe as well. Rheilly P >> : > SMH, 30/10/09 >> : > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Rheilly P they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. Tailgating and not getting out of the overtaking lanes in a timely fashion are severely punished and very well policed. One thing I learned on the German Autobahns is that your never the fastest car on the road :-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> I'm led to believe that the penalties if you have a prang at the higher >> speeds on autobahns their penalties are severe as well. >they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do >something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. Nope. Not in Germany. Penalties are fixed. Defined by the nature of the offence and re-offences. There's a points system but you can have your licence suspended on the spot without accummulating the 12 points in Flensburg. You're thinking of Sweden. >Tailgating and not getting out of the overtaking lanes in a timely fashion >are severely punished and very well policed. >One thing I learned on the German Autobahns is that your never the fastest >car on the road :-) Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Those who can make you believe absurdities X against HTML mail | can make you commit atrocities. / \ and postings | -- Voltaire > >they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do > >something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. > You're thinking of Sweden. Finland too? SignatureJohn McKenzie tosspam@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@aol.com vice.president@whitehouse.gov president@whitehouse.gov sweep.day@accc.gov.au uce@ftc.gov admin@loopback abuse@iprimus.com.au $LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty root@mailloop.com $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost abuse@msn.com abuse@federalpolice.gov.au fraudinfo@psinet.com abuse@asio.gov.au $USER@localhost abuse@sprint.com abuse@fbi.gov abuse@cia.gov >> >they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do >> >something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. >> You're thinking of Sweden. >Finland too? I don't know. You should be able to check just as quickly as I. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Those who can make you believe absurdities X against HTML mail | can make you commit atrocities. / \ and postings | -- Voltaire > You're thinking of Sweden. It's all the poor could fjord... but the rich can fjord more. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html <snip> :they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do :something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. This is something I've long wanted to see happen here - not just for driving offences - but for any fine. The usual argument is that it'd be too hard to implement in practice - but if the Germans can do it, why can't we? > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > too hard to implement in practice - but if the Germans can do it, why > can't we? Because "Ve vun der ....." hang on, did we? SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Je=DFus?= <none@all.org> wrote: >abused@cia.gov said... ><snip> >>they also have an infringement system based on income, if your go fast or do >>something stupid and your rich, you pay way more than some poor wage slave. >This is something I've long wanted to see happen here - not just for >driving offences - but for any fine. The usual argument is that it'd be >too hard to implement in practice - but if the Germans can do it, why >can't we? The Germans don't. They have constitutionalprotection against it. Try Sweden. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx > =?iso-8859-1?Q?Je=DFus?= <none@all.org> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Try Sweden. same argument then, if the Swedes can do it...................... Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Je=DFus?= <none@all.org> wrote: >>>abused@cia.gov said... >>>>they also have an infringement system based on income, if your >>>>go fast or do something stupid and your rich, you pay way more >>>>than some poor wage slave. >>>This is something I've long wanted to see happen here - not just >>>for driving offences - but for any fine. The usual argument is >>>that it'd be too hard to implement in practice - but if the >>>Germans can do it, why can't we? >> The Germans don't. They have constitutionalprotection against it. >> Try Sweden. >same argument then, if the Swedes can do it...................... Because they socialist states are control-freak countries inhabited largely by sheep. e.g. Many of the very rich Swedish people don't live in Sweden because they cannot afford to do so for tax reasons. Those that do stay in Sweden, avoid such taxation by purchasing a list of unmarked police cars, and use various technical avoidance measures that are expensive; out of the range of most people. The most egalitarian penalty system against drivers is to put their licence at risk. A penalty points system. Still; that may unfairly burden those who have to drive often, especially in unfamiliar places. The threat to personal mobility in losing a licence isn't very powerful if you're rich. Losing a licence however, if you can't afford to hire a driver, is a massive punishment; almost a form of imprisonment that for some people results financial disaster. And all of that because somebody failed to obey stupid, arbitrary speed limits. No harm was done to anything or anybody; nor is it likely in the vast majority of cases. Yet "we" decide that "perpetrators" must be punished, just in case. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx :=?iso-8859-1?Q?Je=DFus?= <none@all.org> wrote: : [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : :Try Sweden. I like Swedes, but certainly not in my Sauerbraten. >>> "Mot Adv" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message >>> > SMH, 30/10/09 >>> > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html >>> Interesting article, personally I found the most significant >>> quote to be the following: >>> "But can Germany be compared with Australia? Unlike the >>> undemanding licence tests that apply in Australian states, >>> German motorists must pass a challenging regimen that includes >>> high-speed highway driving competence in varying weather >>> conditions." >>> In short until we stop having an LCD approach to licencing and >>> actually have people earn their MDLs the speed limits are >>> probably safer to remain where they are. The fundamental traffic regulations are also different. Here's the first paragraph, roughly translated: 1. Basic rules (1) Participation in road traffic demands constant caution and mutual regard. (2) Every traffic participant is to conduct themselves in a manner so that no others are damaged, endangered or, more than demanded by circumstances, obstructed or encumbered. >> Unfortunately, you could only get your licence around 25 days a >> year in SEQld then to get the varying weather conditions. >> As soon as they teach people to drive rather than pass the test >> the road toll make slow somewhat. There's the matter of attitude ... one that is required in Germany to be roughly in line with the traffic regulations. There's a basic "idiot test" that everybody has to pass (a psychological test), and then there are more intense investigations of the person't psyche, especially if they offend often/severely enough to have their licence suspended. Psychological fitness has to be formally assessed before a licence is restored. Those driving without a licence are immediately arrested. Not just given a ticket. Tailgating is policed. Less than the equivalent of a one second gap can result in being fined. (Actually less than about 2 seconds,but the fine is too small to worry about and the relative risk tiny.) If you tailgate with less than a quarter of a second's gap, you're arrested and lose your licence for 3 months. After which the shrink has to be convinced that you should be allowed to hold one. Close tailgating may be charged as assault; by placing the drivers in front under unlawful duress. Overtaking on the wrong side will get you stopped and fined. There are many unmarked Police cars on traffic patrol throughout Germany, especially on highways and Autobahn. It is safe to assume that the other car that you can see on the road is a "plain wrapper". They drive all sorts, including apparently clapped out Golfs and Astras, through to BMW M series, Mercedes E-class. Clean or dirty. They don't seem to be fussy. The Autobahn patrols seem to have video cameras. There are lots of fixed speed cameras. Especially in and around larger communities. Thefines up to a certain amount are split 50/50 between the State and the community; but below the threshold, 100% goes to the locals. The majority of fines obviously goes to the locals, typically fine-only offences for 20 km/h or less above the speed limit. >> It comes down to the laziness of instructors. "Ive got a XX% >> pass rate so therefore Im a better teacher" more then likely that >> instructor should be assessed more often. Driver training needs abig shake-up. Hence my proposal for Certified Driving Instructors taking responsibility for the graduates' actions. <http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE//SENSE/Certified_Instructors.html> Graduates wouldn't need to be probationary drivers for any period of time. They will have demonstrated an appropriate attitude and adequate skills to be passed by their instructor. They need that pass before applying for final testing by a government authority. >I'm led to believe that the penalties if you have a prang at the >higher speeds on autobahns their penalties are severe as well. They can be. The onus is on the driver to show that their speed, if in excess of the recommended limit (130 km/h), did not contribute to the crash. It is quite possible to face (attempted) manslaughter charges if you'e seen to have contributed to any crash, if there is an injured or killed participant. That's regardless of you being a motorist, cyclist or pedestrian. Traffic regulations apply to all road users. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Those who can make you believe absurdities X against HTML mail | can make you commit atrocities. / \ and postings | -- Voltaire > The fundamental traffic regulations are also different. > Here's the first paragraph, roughly translated: > 1. Basic rules > (1) Participation in road traffic demands constant caution > and mutual regard. > (2) Every traffic participant is to conduct themselves in a > manner so that no others are damaged, endangered or, more > than demanded by circumstances, obstructed or encumbered. Hey Jeremy, can we get these added to the beginning of the ARRs, or at least NSW regulation? SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> The fundamental traffic regulations are also different. > >> Here's the first paragraph, roughly translated: > >> 1. Basic rules >> (1) Participation in road traffic demands constant caution >> and mutual regard. >> (2) Every traffic participant is to conduct themselves in a >> manner so that no others are damaged, endangered or, more >> than demanded by circumstances, obstructed or encumbered. > Hey Jeremy, can we get these added to the beginning of the ARRs, or > at least NSW regulation? I don't see why not - we could add it to the NSW Road Users Handbook as well, to start with. I'll speak with RTA chap. Bernd/Athol etc:- NSW proposal to mandate the rear fog lamp function continues, I'll update as it goes. Athol's input re connectors - appreciated. The warning triangle ARR is to be updated (110km/h+ zones to be 200m min, up from 150m AND palcement has changed in regards divided roads/freeway class), so we'll see ARR change in 2010 for this. A second stage could see us with a mandatory requirement 2011-2012 nationally, and therefore a second update to take into account car, van & 4WD categories.. RTA sent feedback re the safety vests, they quoted NSW Workcover stuff (duh), and "have no problems with requirement to carry and use'. Opposition are in favour of the triangle and vest (Athol, I left an update on this at AS's Facebook). Failing national agreement, I will signal (and have to RTA) that NSW will go it alone using state law, and have signalled LIB/Nat interest in the items. NSW ALP after advocacy, initiated the ADR update review re the r.fogs. RTA chap, re the rear fog, *is very determined*, but is up against some 'dumb' interstate staffer/s who might lack vision and commonsense. Interstate Ministerial feedback to date, though, has been positive. Another avenue; - failing national improvement, will be to REMOVE ADR management, and source UNECE 'live' as domestic legislation, but keep domestic ADR/NVS management for 'emergency services', and one or two existing ADR's unique to AUS. Regards all. J. >>> The fundamental traffic regulations are also different. >>> Here's the first paragraph, roughly translated: [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > domestic ADR/NVS management for 'emergency services', and one or two > existing ADR's unique to AUS. It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the driving public will be IMO a lot more difficult. I have mentioned both the wearing of safety vests and using triangles to a number of people and from the comments and looks I've gotten I suspect that they all think I've lost the plot, they just don't get it. Talking about rear fogs lamps is another issue likely to get me confined to the funny farm, turning a simple switch off and on as required by the conditions is too much effort for most. Daryl > It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding > such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to the funny farm, turning a simple switch off and on as required by the > conditions is too much effort for most. I was in the lift yesterday with two 50+ women. One was saying how P platers should be banned from anything except 4 cylinder vehicles, have an instant 5 year ban if caught speeding, and ban P platers from motorbikes. The other commented on how the 10% leeway for speeding should be made 0%. I managed to keep my mouth shut, but only just. Matt. >> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Matt. Well done , personally I think retesting every 5 to 10 years in the physical skills and permit renews is a great idea , and lets see retraining like the traffic school idea but the big question is who will pay and who will run it . >> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I managed to keep my mouth shut, but only just. They were certainly showing their ignorance, power to weight limits is the only way to limit performance. It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. Daryl > It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, > even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. Wrong ... again. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, >> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. > > Wrong ... again. More lies and bullshit, you haven't got a clue. Daryl >>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, >>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. >> >> Wrong ... again. >> > More lies and bullshit, you haven't got a clue. You haven't got a crystal ball. Who hasn't got a clue? Fkn grow up Dazza, I have not had *any* speeding tickets in my life. How does that slot into your above sentence? Lies and bullshit ... you'd know huh. LOL SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, >>>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Fkn grow up Dazza, I have not had *any* speeding tickets in my life. How > does that slot into your above sentence? Simple you don't have or never have had a drivers license, no one who has could be so ignorant of the facts or maybe you have been in prison or on a small island for most of your life. > Lies and bullshit ... you'd know huh. LOL Unlike you I live in the real world. BTW how is life on Fantasy Island? Daryl > Unlike you I live in the real world. > BTW how is life on Fantasy Island? Ain't I lucky eh. :-) No fantasy, truth. Is it luck, or is my social behavior a little above the pack? BTW I've had one ticket in NSW and one in QLD, neither for speeding though. For the record: 1. overtaking slow truck down incline and passing a property entrance whilst in process of overtaking (go figure) near Berry in NSW. 23 years old. 2. going through an orange light at Aitkenvale (Townsville) QLD. 38 years old. Last week I was pulled over for RBT for the second time ever (one in QLD and one in NSW). Wouldn't you just love to live in my world Daz. ;-) BTW the Morris 8 is purring like a kitten and I've just aquired two more stationary engines. :-) Fark, lifes good. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > > Unlike you I live in the real world. > > BTW how is life on Fantasy Island? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Fark, lifes good. Nice RBT total, you obviously weren't a long term rotating shift worker in Sydney. I've probably been tested over 100 times in the car down here over the last 8 years years and I gave up counting on the bike a loooong time ago after *220* stops in an 18 month period riding 600+Km a week around Sydney; yep, at least once a day. I questioned them once and the response was "It's a random test sir, we randomly stop all motortyclces". You can't argue with that, but I drove the car exclusively for the next two months - just as an experiment - and didn't get stopped once. Back on the bike, back to nearly every day. Oh well, at lest they have conclusive evidence that I don't drink & drive/ride! Cheers > Nice RBT total, you obviously weren't a long term rotating shift worker in > Sydney. I've probably been tested over 100 times in the car down here over [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > well, at lest they have conclusive evidence that I don't drink & > drive/ride! Cheers I left Sydney in 1975 and I have no desire to return. I rode bikes in Sydney (1964-1975)and Townsville (between 1980-2000) and was never pulled up once. :-) Now I live in "Fantasy Paradise" in the Northern Rivers and when I get the Vellocette up and running I'll take it out and see if I get pulled over. I doubt it though, I had to drive to Uralla to be RBT'd last week. :-) SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-) -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > > Nice RBT total, you obviously weren't a long term rotating shift worker in > > Sydney. I've probably been tested over 100 times in the car down here over [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I doubt it though, I had to drive to Uralla to be RBT'd last > week. :-) Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! > Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a > Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! Sorry to disappoint you, it's a Mk1 LE 150cc water cooled. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > > Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a > > Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! > > Sorry to disappoint you, it's a Mk1 LE 150cc water cooled. Lovely bike, but don't think I've seen one since I came out here. >>> Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a >>> Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! >> Sorry to disappoint you, it's a Mk1 LE 150cc water cooled. > > Lovely bike, but don't think I've seen one since I came out here. Probably right. I don't think our coppers ever rode them. :-) SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>> Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a >>> Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! >> Sorry to disappoint you, it's a Mk1 LE 150cc water cooled. > > Lovely bike, but don't think I've seen one since I came out here. I know a bloke in Petone Unzud who has a couple or Le's, inherited from his dad > >>> Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a > >>> Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I know a bloke in Petone Unzud who has a couple or Le's, inherited from > his dad My first bike would have been either the Triumph Tiger Cub or the LE that my Dad had, but then I left the UK for here instead! >>>>> Unless it's an LE250, in which case you could be a prime candidate for a >>>>> Random "WTF is that?" Test. A KTT would (just) fit nicely in my garage! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > My first bike would have been either the Triumph Tiger Cub or the LE that > my Dad had, but then I left the UK for here instead! The cub was a very tidy little learners machine , then the Honda's came out about 1966 or 67 as a 250 ans 305 ? with a pressed frame ( and reved ) at 15 I rode a Tigress for a couple of months ( to school)until I got my Villiers going and considering hot modified the Tigress was the reliability was not a problem ( actually pulled a genuine ton)and in the city I see scooters are back so economy now means something along with convenience . >> Unlike you I live in the real world. >> BTW how is life on Fantasy Island? [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Fark, lifes good. what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old stationary engines? > what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp Southern > cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old stationary engines? If your email works you may find out. ;-) SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old stationary >> engines? > > If your email works you may find out. ;-) You ask a question. You get two replies. You f.ck off. Hmmmmmmmmmm. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-\ -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >>> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hmmmmmmmmmm. I replied. Your turn. >>>> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >>>> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > I replied. Your turn. I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. <flick> SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>>>> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >>>>> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > <flick> I do not know what you are all het up about.My email works,I asked a simple question. I did not say I was selling anything.You sent email asking where I lived I said sydney >>>>>> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >>>>>> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > simple question. I did not say I was selling anything.You sent email > asking where I lived I said sydney I am not het up. I am following a process to attempt a conclusion. I have received emails to that gmail addy today from others, but not from you. You also didn't respond on the NG, so what am I suppose to presume? What would you presume, in my place? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > You also didn't respond on the NG, so what am I suppose to presume? What > would you presume, in my place? > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. That you're a f.cking idiot? He made no mention of wanting to sell anything. You *assumed* that was the case and came away all shitty when you were wrong. Sucks to be you I guess. -- Regards, Noddy. >> You also didn't respond on the NG, so what am I suppose to presume? What >> would you presume, in my place? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. And still as thick as a brick. f.ck me, logic left you at an early age eh. He didn't reply to me on the NG or my gmail address. Geddit yet fuckhead. It's got nothing to do with buying or selling, geddit yet fuckhead. It has to do with the absense of a reply in both cases. Geddit yet? Now that should be able to be worked out, by a normal person. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > And still as thick as a brick. f.ck me, logic left you at an early age eh. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Now that should be able to be worked out, by a normal person. Jeez, your knickers are really giving you a wedgy, aren't they? :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> And still as thick as a brick. f.ck me, logic left you at an early age eh. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jeez, your knickers are really giving you a wedgy, aren't they? :) Nah, I'm as cool as a cucumber (and I'm in my jamas). Figured out where you made the big stuffup yet or are you still trying to extract your feet from your gob? SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > Nah, I'm as cool as a cucumber (and I'm in my jamas). Figured out where > you made the big stuffup yet or are you still trying to extract your feet > from your gob? Get over yourself you silly old c.nt. No one gives a crap about your bullshit. -- Regards, Noddy. >>>>>>> what sort? I have a few rusting away in the rain, two 1 1/2 hp >>>>>>> Southern cross plus a few others. Is there a market for old [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is probably going to junk > I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is > probably going to junk No it isn't, have not received it, at all (I accept ALL incoming). I think the SMTP you're using (or maybe your ISP) isn't allowing gmail addresses server access. email incoming. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >> I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is >> probably going to junk [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > email incoming. I just sent it again. I only wrote one word ,Sydney, but I did not snip your email >>> I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is >>> probably going to junk [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I just sent it again. > I only wrote one word ,Sydney, but I did not snip your email There's something weird happening with the emails you're sending then, because it's 8:37pm and nothing has lodged in my bigbog box ....... yet. So, they aren't getting through there or gmail. Two boxes I receive mail in every day. Weird eh. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>>> I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is >>>> probably going to junk [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Weird eh. It's 9:27pm, still nothing, 'night. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>>>> I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is >>>>> probably going to junk [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > It's 9:27pm, still nothing, 'night. I give up, I sent myself an email from the same hotmail address to a different address and received it. Must be hotmail or IP wont talk to gmail. >>>>>> I just sent the same reply message again to see if it worked.It is >>>>>> probably going to junk [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > different address and received it. > Must be hotmail or IP wont talk to gmail. Did you try the Bigpond one I gave you? If that doesn't work the only suggestion I've got left is, pay ya bill FFS. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. > > <flick> Jeez, your kill-file must be getting as thick as a Chinese phone book :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. You're still as thick as a brick eh bighead. One day you'll get it, maybe. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >> I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. >> <flick> > Jeez, your kill-file must be getting as thick as a Chinese phone book > :) It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file entries. A sad bloke, ain't he! SignatureDyna All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged. Dyna Soar wrote: >>> I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > A sad bloke, ain't he! You're as thick as your mentor you stupid c.nt. Both way out in left field. You might as well stick your other foot in your gob too, just like uncle bighead. Life, I'm lovin' it, especially when all knowing, hollier than though twits like you pair get it all fkn twisted. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > Dyna Soar wrote: >>>> I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. >>>> <flick> >>> Jeez, your kill-file must be getting as thick as a Chinese phone >>> book :) >> It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file entries. >> A sad bloke, ain't he! > You're as thick as your mentor you stupid c.nt. ROFLMAO... QED. You wrote a while ago I was "kill-filed" by you. You lying POS. > Both way out in left field. You might as well stick your other > foot in your gob too, just like uncle bighead. **YAWN** > Life, I'm lovin' it, especially when all knowing, hollier than > though twits like you pair get it all fkn twisted. Yes, I've noticed how you're enjoying life, it makes you *so* gentlemanly!!! SignatureDyna All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged. Dyna Soar wrote: >> Dyna Soar wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You lying POS. I'm not even gunna tell you where and why you're wrong, very wrong. You're just too stupid to understand. Oh, and, <flick> >> Both way out in left field. You might as well stick your other >> foot in your gob too, just like uncle bighead. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, I've noticed how you're enjoying life, it makes you *so* gentlemanly!!! SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > Dyna Soar wrote: >>> Dyna Soar wrote: >>>>>> I honestly don't think you're worth it Fred. >>>>>> <flick> >>>>> Jeez, your kill-file must be getting as thick as a Chinese phone >>>>> book :) >>>> It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file >>>> entries. >>>> A sad bloke, ain't he! >>> You're as thick as your mentor you stupid c.nt. >> ROFLMAO... QED. You wrote a while ago I was "kill-filed" by you. >> You lying POS. > I'm not even gunna tell you where and why you're wrong, very > wrong. You're just too stupid to understand. Did I misunderstand your posts where you said you were plonking, but later shown you hadn't? ************ (14th Sept) Dyna Soar wrote: > Feral wrote: >> Noddy wrote: > >> <plonk> > > Is that now 187 or 188 times you've plonked Noddy? I thought it was the first, but it could be the second. It's certainly the last. *********** *********** (15th Sept) Dyna Soar wrote: > Feral wrote: >> Jeßus wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Now I really don't care if you plonked him or not except your post today > shows that your word is as reliable as OzLiar's. So, what are you, a netcop. f.ck off. <plonk> *********** Yet you're still responding to Noddy and me. Your word is worth zilch. You're a proven liar and a sick joke, Feral. > Oh, and, > <flick> Yeah, right! :-D SignatureDyna All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged. > Dyna Soar wrote: >>> Dyna Soar wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> Yes, I've noticed how you're enjoying life, it makes you *so* >> gentlemanly!!! your not related to that perpetual retard Phil Alison are you ?? Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi :"Feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message <snip> :your not related to that perpetual retard Phil Alison are you ?? Similar level of stupidity - but without the jammed caps lock key and endless expletives. > It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file entries. > > A sad bloke, ain't he! Yeah, but you get that once you buy an Avalon :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file entries. >> >> A sad bloke, ain't he! > > Yeah, but you get that once you buy an Avalon :) Coming up to nine years old and still no breakages. Fark eh. Life really is good eh, when you make a good decision about an economical, comfortable, but sporty daily drive. And it's goodnight from him. ps Hope you reread those posts *properly* between Murtz and me and use a bit of logic and common sense before tomorrow, because you may just keep embarassing yourself if you don't. Nah, just stick to your guns so we can all see how illogical you really are. BTW you're a bad influence on Dyna. Wean it off your cock huh. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > Coming up to nine years old and still no breakages. Fark eh. Yeah, fark. > Life really is good eh, when you make a good decision about an economical, > comfortable, but sporty daily drive. Sporty? An Avalon? :) > And it's goodnight from him. Is that another Plonk? > ps Hope you reread those posts *properly* between Murtz and me and use a > bit of logic and common sense before tomorrow, because you may just keep > embarassing yourself if you don't. Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not interested in it enough to go over it. > Nah, just stick to your guns so we can all see how illogical you really > are. > > BTW you're a bad influence on Dyna. Wean it off your cock huh. Keep eating your dogfood and using your plasticine to repair your old scrap metal Feral. The world needs sources of amusement like you. -- Regards, Noddy. > Sporty? An Avalon? For sport mode, I guess he shoots roos out the drivers window. Either that or the boot is big enough for a bag of golf clubs. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>> It's been shown many times that he lies about his kill-file entries. >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Coming up to nine years old and still no breakages. Fark eh. Only because its a hairdressers car, you dont generaly break something that is a boring as watching watching the snot on your foreskin drying after a quick tug in the garadge. > Life really is good eh, when you make a good decision about an economical, > comfortable, but sporty daily drive. anyone who thinks an Avalon is sporty would probably get wood over a Morris Marina. > And it's goodnight from him. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > BTW you're a bad influence on Dyna. Wean it off your cock huh. Jealous much ?? -- [This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi > >>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, > >>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You haven't got a crystal ball. No but, yeah but, just because you've got an Avalon, granite crack and paper tits.. and we're all jealous. Wonder how many people have got home after following you from the shops, looked in the mirror and found they had a 3 day growth (1000's I suspect and that's just counting the women). Avalon drivers should be charged with obstruction.. and global warming.. being the only one to limp away at the lights just before the arrow turns red again... leaving those behind cursing, idling away, waiting for the next green. A tip for young people, buy a grey wig and an Avalon. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>>>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, >>>>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > A tip for young people, buy a grey wig and an Avalon. I agree with Athol. You have become VERY lame. Wazup Al? SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > >>>>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, > >>>>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I agree with Athol. You have become VERY lame. Wazup Al? Is it possible to write something exciting about an Avalon.. or insult the Athole from Newcarthole? Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Daryl not in 20 years......... got a few when I was younger though. Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > not in 20 years......... > got a few when I was younger though. I would be astounded if you could drive 10 k in the real world of traffic and not go over the limit at least once. If yo don't drive close to the limit when the rest of the traffic is you are danger to everyone. You may have been lucky to have not been caught but that's another story. John G. >>> They were certainly showing their ignorance, power to weight limits is >>> the only way to limit performance. >>> It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, >>> even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. >> not in 20 years......... >> got a few when I was younger though. > I would be astounded if you could drive 10 k in the real world of > traffic and not go over the limit at least once. > If yo don't drive close to the limit when the rest of the traffic is you > are danger to everyone. What a lota hot cock. > You may have been lucky to have not been caught but that's another story. > > John G. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >>>> They were certainly showing their ignorance, power to weight limits is >>>> the only way to limit performance. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > What a lota hot cock. There speaks the authority on receiving it appears ? >> You may have been lucky to have not been caught but that's another story. >> >> John G. >>>>> They were certainly showing their ignorance, power to weight limits is >>>>> the only way to limit performance. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> What a lota hot cock. > There speaks the authority on receiving it appears ? Sharp, Bazza, sharp. :-) SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-) -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > >>>> They were certainly showing their ignorance, power to weight limits is > >>>> the only way to limit performance. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > What a lota hot cock. > There speaks the authority on receiving it appears ? Maybe he w.nks with Dencorub(sp)?? Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > John G. I drive em like I stole em, I'm no mobile chicane :-) I also seem to possess a 6th sense for knowing when cops are about as there are times when I could have overtaken someone on the highway and just thought, Nah, there's another overtaking lane a little way ahead" only to have a cop car with radar unit hung out just up the road. Last time I got a ticket for speeding was coming back from Molong in my brand new Sigma GSR (so that dates me) I got off with a lower penalty because I was able to convince the cop that I wasn't used to the new car yet and would he rather I looked at the road, or looked at the speedo :-) Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > not in 20 years......... > got a few when I was younger though. I haven't had one for a long time but I know plenty of people who most would consider to be very law abiding that get the occasion speeding fine. For the first 35yrs out of 39yrs of driving my wife didn't get a single fine yet she's has had a few in the last couple of years, they are almost unavoidable or at least that's true in Vic. I think of the majority of speeding fines (less than 10kph over) as "not paying enough attention fines because fixed camera locations are well known and most mobile cameras are easy to spot. Daryl >>>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Daryl Last couple of weeks there has lcally been a spate of "Weve had enough" retaliations a number of cams are either being tyred and burt or simply disappear Eventually anna is going to work out how little cash they generate at the cost she is paying There was a cam the on the southern motorway around the P.a but it's gone missing twice this month I hear... The Story can was shot so people are sick of the theft >>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It would be amazing if neither of them had ever had a speeding fine, > even the most speed conscious drivers get the occasional speeding fine. I'm still trying to figure out the motorbike one.. So somebody gets their bike learners, passes the test, and is then banned from riding for 2 years? Matt. >>> I was in the lift yesterday with two 50+ women. One was saying how P >>> platers should be banned from anything except 4 cylinder vehicles, >>> have an instant 5 year ban if caught speeding, and ban P platers from >>> motorbikes. <snip> >I'm still trying to figure out the motorbike one.. So somebody gets >their bike learners, passes the test, and is then banned from riding for >2 years? Presumably they're supposed to obtain their full licence in a car before they can ride a bike!... Logically, it ought be the other way around. ;-) As I understand it, current requirements for obtaining a motorcyle licence call for a considerably higher standard of proficiency than a car licence... at least that's the case in Q. (Q-Ride is probably a reasonable model for what *should* be required for a car licence.) SignatureJohn H >>>> I was in the lift yesterday with two 50+ women. One was saying how P >>>> platers should be banned from anything except 4 cylinder vehicles, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > car licence... at least that's the case in Q. (Q-Ride is probably a > reasonable model for what *should* be required for a car licence.) Yes but. It is to do with maturity. When I was working years ago every one who got their bike license first had serious time off work accidents but every one who got a bike license a few years after the car license had no accidents (Except for one oldie who got a postie and was wiped out by a failed to give way.) >> As I understand it, current requirements for obtaining a motorcyle >> licence call for a considerably higher standard of proficiency than a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >had no accidents (Except for one oldie who got a postie and was wiped >out by a failed to give way.) The statistics say otherwise! Next highest risk group after learners is 35+ year olds who haven't ridden a bike since their youth, if ever. High petrol prices of recent years, and possibly city congestion, has seen a dramatic increase in numbers for that group, and a corresponding increase in the associated crash rates. Q-Ride specifically targets both groups. Statistics have long shown, and still do, that risk of death or injury drops off dramatically with experience, irrespective of age, reaching a plateau after around 3 years riding. The purpose of advanced training is to shorten that period by improving proficiency. What I don't doubt is if you were to put a completely inexperienced beginner on a bike the risk of injury to themselves would be much higher than in a car... which has everything to do with the inherent stability and extra protection provided by the car, and very litle to do with maturity. SignatureJohn H >>> As I understand it, current requirements for obtaining a motorcyle >>> licence call for a considerably higher standard of proficiency than a [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > a plateau after around 3 years riding. The purpose of advanced > training is to shorten that period by improving proficiency. Does not alter the fact that the kids in our company who had their car license for a couple of years before they got their bike licenses had next to no bike accidents and every one who got bike license first had time off work accidents. Three years driving must have a similar effect (Gets back to maturity and experience)( I don't mean old age maturity) > What I don't doubt is if you were to put a completely inexperienced > beginner on a bike the risk of injury to themselves would be much > higher than in a car... which has everything to do with the inherent > stability and extra protection provided by the car, and very litle to > do with maturity. >>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding >>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > their bike learners, passes the test, and is then banned from riding for > 2 years? The comment would seem to be saying that before you can get a bike license you first need to have a car license for 3 years. Daryl > >>>> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding > >>>> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > The comment would seem to be saying that before you can get a bike > license you first need to have a car license for 3 years. Is that so you can get pissed and wipe out youself and all you mates in a fiery crash so they don't have the trauma of attending your funeral? Others have mentioned being less likely to be stopped at a RBT in a car.. why? One for mythbuthters: Do intoxicated people burn faster? How many motorcycles have backed over children in the driveway? Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html :> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding :> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : :I managed to keep my mouth shut, but only just. LOL, I'm not so sure I could have done the same :) > :> It may be hard work to convince RTA/Vic Roads etc personnel regarding > :> such ideas and you will eventually succeed but convincing members of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > LOL, I'm not so sure I could have done the same :) me either Signature[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International] "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Gandhi >> The fundamental traffic regulations are also different. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Hey Jeremy, can we get these added to the beginning of the ARRs, or > at least NSW regulation? Good idea. When I was learning to drive a long time ago the golden rule I was taught was that you always had to travel at a speed which would enable you to avoid an accident. I was taught that that rule meant more or less what the German rules state but I do like the way the German rules are written, they are more to the point and not open to interpretation. Daryl needs this I think http://members.iinet.net.au/~felsche/Bernd/SENSE/Certified_Instructors.htm how ever I doubt it is possible , driving instructor usege would be so expensive more than perhaps the final 10 hours , the current system IS flawed but your a little off the mark imho ( and yes I have worked in the field) > needs this I think >http://ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.htm Better: <http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE/Certified_Instructors.html> Which should persist through ISP changes. >how ever I doubt it is possible , driving instructor usege would be so >expensive more than perhaps the final 10 hours , the current system IS >flawed but your a little off the mark imho >( and yes I have worked in the field) Would you trust your future income on only 10 hours of seeing how the student behaved at the wheel? I identified 4 distinct driving conditions in the proposal; and all of them need to be encountered in wet and dry conditions; in both day and night. Then there's skid control, etc. . 10 hours doesn't seem like enough time to cover those combinations of conditions convincingly. (Outside of Melbourne :-)) The cost factor is very significant. The high "cost of entry" for drivers in Germany is why so many don't have a licence until they're well into their working life. It does cost thousands. But it is a full licence. For life. If a driver is licenced, then they should be fully capable and trusted to operate a vehicle according to that licence. None of this "probationary" rubbish. [The system of road user and driver training in Germany is very different to that suggested; and certainly much more intense than that in Australia.] My proposed scheme allows for driver some training by non-certified persons, recognizing the need for much more practice to "automate" vehicle control skills and on-road traffic exposure to recognize significant threats and to manage the risks. That however underscores the value of the licence. It's the cost of education. When I took the safety council driver training while still at school (1976), it involved a minimum of 6 hours behind the wheel and 24 hours of theory. That course concentrated on car control. The quality of attitude wasn't assessed. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Those who can make you believe absurdities X against HTML mail | can make you commit atrocities. / \ and postings | -- Voltaire >> needs this I think > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Would you trust your future income on only 10 hours of seeing how > the student behaved at the wheel? My income isn't relevant as I can assure you it would be a certainty to be good now where I wonder about it all is why is the testing station let off he hook , they are afer all the ones saying let the kid go with 2 tonnes of iron and try not to kill anyone , a 3 or 4 part test makes more sense to me ( again the sixpence) I identified 4 distinct driving > conditions in the proposal; and all of them need to be encountered > in wet and dry conditions; in both day and night. Then there's skid > control, etc. . 10 hours doesn't seem like enough time to cover > those combinations of conditions convincingly. (Outside of Melbourne :-)) ( not my fault you live way down there ) simply farm a couple of hours skid pan out and then have on road final 10 hours done by a suitable person after say an hours consultancy to get the parent started I did some pan training at Mt Cotton recently and had a ball along with a lot of youngsters , best couple of hundred I ever spent apart from one night in Copenhagen > The cost factor is very significant. The high "cost of entry" for > drivers in Germany is why so many don't have a licence until they're > well into their working life. It does cost thousands. But it is a > full licence. For life. Considering the manner in which we are used as a cash cow by the pollies either major change to the regulation system has to happen or your suggestion simply wont > If a driver is licenced, then they should be fully capable and > trusted to operate a vehicle according to that licence. None of this > "probationary" rubbish. of course but who is gonna pay for it all ? not some 17 year old kid > [The system of road user and driver training in Germany is very > different to that suggested; and certainly much more intense than > that in Australia.] not really relevant either due to geographical differences > My proposed scheme allows for driver some training by non-certified > persons, recognizing the need for much more practice to "automate" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That however underscores the value of the licence. It's the cost of > education. remember how ever the average Aussie already goes " Nah do expensive " "fskit wont bother" after all we aint German > When I took the safety council driver training while still at > school (1976), it involved a minimum of 6 hours behind the wheel and > 24 hours of theory. That course concentrated on car control. voluntary and an ok course , I also have done a lot of training for work I was doing , on a voluntary basis > The quality of attitude wasn't assessed. >Driver training needs abig shake-up. Hence my proposal for Certified >Driving Instructors taking responsibility for the graduates' >actions. ><http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE//SENSE/Certified_Instructors.html> OOPS! <http://bernd.felsche.org/SENSE/Certified_Instructors.html> Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Those who can make you believe absurdities X against HTML mail | can make you commit atrocities. / \ and postings | -- Voltaire >> SMH, 30/10/09 >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > people earn their MDLs the speed limits are probably safer to remain where > they are. True. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > SMH, 30/10/09 > > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html I'd agree that higher limits are needed and the current speed limit lowering on "better" road needs to be reviewed. I think that some study should be made into what parts of the brain are inactive when bored. My slow brain kicks in and one just steers. Many have noticed that they don't remember passing a spot in their regular slow drive home!! I do believe something kicks in and makes one more alert when the pace ups and there is far less oppressed feeling, less agitation and irritation.. or maybe that's just me. On long drives, 1000 or more Ks on the bike, I would beat boredom and fatigue. I would vary up to 160 km/h but always the risk of being knocked off by radar. FFS When I had Gorbie the white Russian wonder truck (otherwise known as a shitbox Lada Niva) on the freeway having to overtake slow law abiding HSVs BMWs... I certainly don't condone driving fast on local streets but 50 km/h on long stretches out of the built up areas can be equally boring and lead to fatigue. Al SignatureI don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone. http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> SMH, 30/10/09 >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I certainly don't condone driving fast on local streets but 50 km/h on long > stretches out of the built up areas can be equally boring and lead to fatigue. ~~~~~~~~ the "drive to the conditions,no upper limit" ( indicated by a sign with a diagonal black line NSW) that was chucked in the mid? `70`s should be reinstated....... > Al Signaturejonz "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind - boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene Spafford,1992 > SMH, 30/10/09 > > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html You mean "Is speed really *A* killer", don't you Mr Smartarse! And yes, it still is; combined with other things as well as straight out. See ya Mr Smartarse. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ >> SMH, 30/10/09 >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > See ya Mr Smartarse. Speed is a killer is an inane statement.A 5 kmph accident resulting in death involves speed. >>> SMH, 30/10/09 >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Speed is a killer is an inane statement.A 5 kmph accident resulting in > death involves speed. WTF has happened to lateral thinking, and the fact that J Smartarse missquoted the SMH. Sheesh. SignatureTake Care. ~~ Feral Al ( @..@) (\- :-P -/) ((.>__oo__<.)) ^^^ % ^^^ > SMH, 30/10/09 > > http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/is-speed-really-a-killer-20091030-ho9e.html It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop! |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.