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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / November 2009Nine news: Toyota stuck accelerators
Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. Played some footage from a 911 call from someone whose accelerator was stuck who ultimately crashed, and the car burst into flames killing all 4 on board. OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why would you call 911, instead of simply turning the engine off and/or slipping it into neutral? Quite a few years ago I had an old Mazda that suddenly locked to full throttle. Before I'd really cottoned on as to what had happened I had the clutch in, then I simply killed the ignition and came safely to a stop. Once I got to a stop I investigated and found the fault. It used an odd system of rods for the throttle linkage and one had let go. The return spring was on the linkage, so there was now nothing to hold the carbies at idle. Consequently the vacuum of the engine opened the throttle 100% and off she went. To get myself back on the road again I rigged up the return spring actually on the carby, and a bit of fencing wire held the linkage together. My longterm fix was a change to cable throttle. Old cars - so much fun.  SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? : Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on : Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] : linkage together. My longterm fix was a change to cable : throttle. Old cars - so much fun. A bit like that boofhead in the UK whos BMW throttle got stuck at wide open, he applied the brakes to slwo himself down and called the BMW Helpline on the mobile still while at 60Mph. After 20 or so miles he run our of brakes, he accelerated up to 100Mph and finally chrashed out at a round about. What a dickhead!! Why not hit the brakes hard and stcik it into neutral? Id rather the engine go bang! unless the ECU held it into gear so as NOT to blow the engine, he said he didnt want to turn off the engine so he had steering. > : Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on > : Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > bang! unless the ECU held it into gear so as NOT to blow the engine, he said he didnt want to turn > off the engine so he had steering. Wouldn't he still have steering unless he took the key out? Just no power assist. And I'm going back over at Christmas? Oh dear :) >> : Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on >> : Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > assist. > And I'm going back over at Christmas? Oh dear :) When you kill the engine the brakes get harder and the steering heavy BUT it all still works unless a by wire situation I had a hot valiant years ago which I drove for ages with the p/s disconnected as at least it has some feedback > Wouldn't he still have steering unless he took the key out? Just no power > assist. Yep. > And I'm going back over at Christmas? Oh dear :) Lucky you :) -- Regards, Noddy. > OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how > stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why > would you call 911, instead of simply turning the engine off and/or > slipping it into neutral? I watched that story myself and thought exactly the same thing. It would appear that the guy driving had all the time in the world to turn off the engine and bring the car to a controlled stop, but rather than have enough basic brains to do that he decides to call 911 and wait until he ploughed into an intersection killing himself and everyone else on board. I guess it was an American thing. -- Regards, Noddy. >> OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how >> stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > basic brains to do that he decides to call 911 and wait until he ploughed > into an intersection killing himself and everyone else on board. Seems to imply that none of the other occupants were any brighter. Sylvia. >>> OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how >>> stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Seems to imply that none of the other occupants were any brighter. Well, we have to presume they were also Merkins. >> OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how >> stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I guess it was an American thing. **Maybe. On the whole, I'd judge the majority of American drivers as more courteous and more competent that Australian (well, Sydney) drivers. OTOH, the minority of bad drivers are spectacularly bad. Much worse than any I've ever seen in Australia (well, Sydney). That's my experience of a month or so driving around California and Nevada. Dunno about the other places. I recall my dad complaining about his Valiant, when the throttle got stuck open back in the 1960s. He turned the engine off and pulled over to the side of the road. Seemed like a reasonable idea to me. SignatureTrevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au On Nov 5, 2:28 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote: > I recall my dad complaining about his Valiant, when > the throttle got stuck open back in the 1960s. He > turned the engine off and pulled over to the side > of the road. Seemed like a reasonable idea to me. I can top that. When my wonderfully completely rebuilt diesel engine decided it should snap a conrod just out of warranty, in my utter disbelief I stupidly thought that it had somehow run out of oil and the dipstick was lying to me. So I pulled over and whacked another 3 litres of oil in it - "What could it hurt? The engine is obviously already f.cked." So now with nearly 8 litres of engine oil in it, there was enough oil to splash past the piston rings and supply the combustion chambers with delicious combustible oil. End result was an engine at full throttle that wouldn't turn off even by turning the key. So all I did was brake a bit, pull over and stall the bitch by dumping the clutch in 5th gear. Even if I was at highway speed, I could've used an extremely "wrong" gear and used the clutch to create too much load for the engine to cope with. It's not rocket surgery. On Nov 5, 2:28 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> > It's not rocket surgery. Apparently it is for some people :) -- Regards, Noddy. > On Nov 5, 2:28 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > It's not rocket surgery. G'Day Damo, what did you do with the Hilux? If its back on the road I have some wheels with RW tyres that would fit that you can have, email me if you are interested. Daryl > G'Day Damo, what did you do with the Hilux? > If its back on the road I have some wheels with > RW tyres that would fit that you can have, > email me if you are interested. > > Daryl The Hilux is back on the road with a second-hand donk in it. Your offer is appreciated, but I'm not looking for rims anymore. I got a full set (6) of steelies now and thankfully don't have to run innertubes anymore :) >> G'Day Damo, what did you do with the Hilux? >> If its back on the road I have some wheels with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > full set (6) of steelies now and thankfully don't have to run > innertubes anymore :) No problem, if you are ever down this way and you change your mind they are here for the taking. Daryl > I watched that story myself and thought exactly the same thing. It would > appear that the guy driving had all the time in the world to turn off the > engine and bring the car to a controlled stop, but rather than have enough > basic brains to do that he decides to call 911 and wait until he ploughed > into an intersection killing himself and everyone else on board. And yet there are still people out there who question the validity of Darwin's theory... :-) SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> I watched that story myself and thought exactly the same thing. It would >> appear that the guy driving had all the time in the world to turn off the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >And yet there are still people out there who question the validity of >Darwin's theory... :-) Daresay there's even a few among a population of 400m who manage to survive childhood only to end up drowning themselves trying to flush the crapper after they've taken a dump. For Darwin's theory to work the percentage needs to be much higher (stuck throtles and faulty cisterns)! ;-) SignatureJohn H > For Darwin's theory to work the percentage needs to be much higher > (stuck throtles and faulty cisterns)! ;-) The nanny state has ruined the process of natural selection. There used to be far more ways for them to take themselves out of the gene pool but now we have safety proceedures designed to remove the need for common sense (which is remarkably uncommon). SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> For Darwin's theory to work the percentage needs to be much higher >> (stuck throtles and faulty cisterns)! ;-) >The nanny state has ruined the process of natural selection. >There used to be far more ways for them to take themselves out of >the gene pool but now we have safety proceedures designed to remove >the need for common sense (which is remarkably uncommon). Yep. There's now a sizeable human population that's equivalent to panda bears. And many of those humans aren't even cute, Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx > >> For Darwin's theory to work the percentage needs to be much higher > >> (stuck throtles and faulty cisterns)! ;-) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yep. There's now a sizeable human population that's equivalent to > panda bears. And many of those humans aren't even cute, Maybe if said population followed the example of the Pandas and spent most of their day chewing grass instead of smoking it, do you think? > Yep. There's now a sizeable human population that's equivalent to > panda bears. And many of those humans aren't even cute, ROTFL :) -- Regards, Noddy. > And yet there are still people out there who question the validity of > Darwin's theory... :-) Lol :) -- Regards, Noddy. > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & > Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would you call 911, instead of simply turning the engine off and/or > slipping it into neutral? Not as easy to do, it seems. I didn't see the story on Nine, but have read details about it a week or two ago. It was a Highway patrol officer driving the Lexus, with his family on board. He was driving - it was his wife who called for help. It seems that the particular car he was driving - which was a loaned vehicle (his car was in for service) - didn't have a simple ignition key. Instead, the key was on a fob arrangement, and to kill the engine, the driver had to hold a button down on the dashboard for three or four seconds before it would operate. More reading, with reader comments, here: Toyota acceleration problem is still unresolved: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/toyota-acceleration-problem-is-still- unresolved/ and Floor mat problem known about two years ago: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/toyota-floor-mat-problem-was-known-tw o-years-ago/ >> Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's >> & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It was a Highway patrol officer driving the Lexus, with his family on > board. He was driving - it was his wife who called for help. The one Nine played, it was a male who called 911, so probably not the same incident. > It seems that the particular car he was driving - which was a loaned > vehicle (his car was in for service) - didn't have a simple ignition > key. Instead, the key was on a fob arrangement, and to kill the engine, > the driver had to hold a button down on the dashboard for three or four > seconds before it would operate. Hmmm, read your link. If it is that difficult to kill the engine, then it is a straight out dangerous design, not just for instances of accelerator sticking. There are several other reasons I can think of why it would be important to be able to quickly kill the engine - after an accident, an engine or transmission fault, onboard fire. A quick and easy way of killing the engine is something that I think needs to be addressed urgently. Even still though, it's transmission doesn't have Neutral either? > More reading, with reader comments, here: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Floor mat problem known about two years ago: > http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/toyota-floor-mat-problem-was-known-tw o-years-ago/ SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? >>> Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & >>> Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Even still though, it's transmission doesn't have Neutral either? I agree Doug, just as most boats have a safety kill key that if you fall overboard and the lanyard is attached to you, it kills the motor instead of killing you. Roger/Davo >> Even still though, it's transmission doesn't have Neutral either? > > I agree Doug, just as most boats have a safety kill key that if you fall > overboard and the lanyard is attached to you, it kills the motor instead > of killing you. don't race cars have a kill all switch onboard?, something like that would be better than holding a button for 3 seconds. anyway I would shove the car into neutral, don't give a stuff about the engine. > don't race cars have a kill all switch onboard?, something like that would > be better than holding a button for 3 seconds. Just shifting the car into neutral would have solved the problem, or at least standing on the brake pedal as hard as possible as there aren't too many cars around these days that can over-power their brakes. > anyway I would shove the car into neutral, don't give a stuff about the > engine. It would seem that the American response to a problem is to panic and wait for the authorities to arrive, and in this case they arrived *way* too late. Whatever way I look at this particular case, I can't reach any conclusion other than the guy driving was as dumb as sh.t on a stick. -- Regards, Noddy. >> don't race cars have a kill all switch onboard?, something like that >> would be better than holding a button for 3 seconds. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. I agree, I don't know of any car that would overpower the brakes hard on. Roger/Davo >>> don't race cars have a kill all switch onboard?, something like that >>> would be better than holding a button for 3 seconds. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > I agree, I don't know of any car that would overpower the brakes hard on. With full throttle there is no vacuum assist (which again shouldn't normally be a problem), but apparently the vehicle in question loses 90% of it's braking ability without vacuum assist - which sounds excessively high. Apparently they determined it would need 150lb on the brake pedal to overpower the engine, which is a lot of pressure! Also they determined that if the brakes were held on, they would have faded before they pulled the vehicle up. So we have an engine that cannot easily be switched off, is under-braked for the engine power, and has too much reliance on the vacuum assist for effective braking. IMO, any of those factors should be sufficient to have them taken off the road as unroadworthy. All that aside though - slipping the thing into neutral would have been sufficient to avoid a 120MPH accident. SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? >> I agree, I don't know of any car that would overpower the brakes hard on. > With full throttle there is no vacuum assist (which again shouldn't normally > be a problem), but apparently the vehicle in question loses 90% of it's > braking ability without vacuum assist - which sounds excessively high. > Apparently they determined it would need 150lb on the brake pedal to > overpower the engine, which is a lot of pressure! It's about 75 kilos. I leg press 400 kilos and your average woman can do 100. Fraser >>> I agree, I don't know of any car that would overpower the brakes hard on. >> With full throttle there is no vacuum assist (which again shouldn't normally >> be a problem), but apparently the vehicle in question loses 90% of it's >> braking ability without vacuum assist - which sounds excessively high. >> Apparently they determined it would need 150lb on the brake pedal to >> overpower the engine, which is a lot of pressure! >It's about 75 kilos. I leg press 400 kilos and your average woman can do 100. Not if they're sitting with the seat too far back. Which is a common trait for a lot of drivers. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx >>> I agree, I don't know of any car that would overpower the brakes hard on. >> With full throttle there is no vacuum assist (which again shouldn't normally [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It's about 75 kilos. I leg press 400 kilos and your average woman can do 100. Those sorts of pressures are easy to do when you are in a leg press exercise machine and can use both legs. In a typical seated position in a car, a typical sized bloke would have to brace themselves to be able to exert those types of pressures. I'm fairly large at 105kg and 6'1, and last time I used a leg press machine I could easily push 500kg which was the most we could load on it. But I just did a little experiment with the bathroom scales set up between my foot and the brake pedal. Not 100% accurate, but would give a good indication. From my normal seated position the most I could push was 45kg. I could exert more, but it moved me instead of putting higher pressure on the pedal. I did _just_ manage to push 75kg, by pulling the back of my seat forward, and bracing myself against the steering wheel, but it was hard work - not so much the effort required to push, but getting into a position where I could exert that level of pressure. > Fraser SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? > Those sorts of pressures are easy to do when you are in a leg press > exercise machine and can use both legs. In a typical seated position in a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > required to push, but getting into a position where I could exert that > level of pressure. A fair comment, but I'd suggest that in an emergency of the type our American legend was faced with you'd be stomping on the brake pedal with both feet and have no trouble exerting enough pressure to slow the car enough to get it out of harm's way where you'd have *ample* time to get the thing shifted into neutral and/or the engine shut down and then stop it completely. I mean, this wasn't some stupid American movie where the brake pedal suddenly dropped to the floor and the car started accelerating uncontrollably. All that was wrong with the thing was that the throttle was stuck under the mat. The brakes were still working, and presumably so was the transmission. I feel sorry for the bloke and his passengers, but for f.ck's sake if you've got enough time to call 911 and have a conversation with the operator about your problem but *can't* think to take the car out of gear or get on the brakes hard then the rest of the community is better off without you. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Those sorts of pressures are easy to do when you are in a leg press >> exercise machine and can use both legs. In a typical seated position in a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > your problem but *can't* think to take the car out of gear or get on the > brakes hard then the rest of the community is better off without you. Yeah I totally agree that he'd have to be a bit thick to not put the thing into neutral. My original thought on finding out about it was "typical stupid american", and for the most part I still agree with that. You would think that at least one of the 3 adults in the car would have thought to try putting it into Neutral. But in most other vehicles, a similar scenario would have multiple ways of getting out of it. The "kill the engine" option has been taken away / made stupidly hard, by not having a quick and easy means of doing it. The "out brake the engine" option has been taken away because it appears the vehicle is under-braked for it's power, and relies too heavily on vacuum assist. Which only leaves putting the car into Neutral. I would hope that that option was still available, and that the vehicle doesn't have another stupid design decision that prevents you putting it into neutral while moving. While there is no question that the driver wasn't real bright, it is also true that the design of the car has made it harder for him, by taking away 2 of the 3 options normally available in this scenario. Personally, I think that the poor design for turning off the engine and poor braking ability should make these vehicles unroadworthy, and Toyota should be made recall them and fix these issues. Not just because of the stuck throttle problem, but also due to other potential dangers. For example after an accident, it is important to be able to kill the ignition quickly to reduce the risk of fire. In the case of engine failure, while all cars are harder to brake because of no vacuum assist, it sounds like these are worse than the norm. I would certainly not consider purchasing any car that has these types of issues. Also, there is a bit of noise getting around on some forums that there is more to the fault than the pedal getting caught. These things use "drive by wire" to electronically link the accelerator to the throttle, instead of mechanically linking them by a cable or linkages. There is some conjecture that the real fault actually lies in this system, rather than the mat as blamed. > -- > Regards, > Noddy. SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? > Yeah I totally agree that he'd have to be a bit thick to not put the thing > into neutral. My original thought on finding out about it was "typical > stupid american", and for the most part I still agree with that. You would > think that at least one of the 3 adults in the car would have thought to > try putting it into Neutral. You'd think so. > But in most other vehicles, a similar scenario would have multiple ways of > getting out of it. The "kill the engine" option has been taken away / made > stupidly hard, by not having a quick and easy means of doing it. The "out > brake the engine" option has been taken away because it appears the > vehicle is under-braked for it's power, and relies too heavily on vacuum > assist. Actually I'd argue this point. I can't remember what the figure was, but it's unlikely that it was anything but an absolute worst case and even in the event that figure was what was required to make the car actually stop it'd take much less to significantly slow the car down to the point where it possibly could have been steered towards other areas. > Which only leaves putting the car into Neutral. I would hope that that > option was still available, and that the vehicle doesn't have another > stupid design decision that prevents you putting it into neutral while > moving. If it does I'd be heading a class action if I was a relative of the deceased :) > While there is no question that the driver wasn't real bright, it is also > true that the design of the car has made it harder for him, by taking away > 2 of the 3 options normally available in this scenario. It would depend on your definition of "taken away" I suppose. I don't know what car the guy was driving other than it being a "Toyota". It's been mentioned here by someone that it was a Lexus, but in the footage I saw on the news they were demonstrating the throttle pedal being caught on a rubber floor mat in a car that looked like a Camry, and I don't think too many Lexus come standard with a rubber floor mat. It's also been mentioned that the car had a press button start switch which required it to be held for three seconds to turn the engine off, and if that really is the case I don't see the difficulty. The part of the phone conversation they played back on the news lasted for more than three seconds, and you gotta figure that in the time it took for the guy to realise he was in trouble, dial 911 and tell the operator all about his problem he could have *easily* held the button down to kill the engine and avoid killing everyone in the car. Not as easy as simply turning off an ignition key, sure, but hardly flying the space shuttle just the same. I'd probably think that if the car had been fitted with a regular ignition key that could be switched off in under a second he'd be too dumb to do that as well and end up just as dead. > Personally, I think that the poor design for turning off the engine and > poor braking ability should make these vehicles unroadworthy, and Toyota [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > these are worse than the norm. I would certainly not consider purchasing > any car that has these types of issues. Personally I think dash mounted stater switches are a complete w.nk and wouldn't be interested in ever having one for that reason, but I don't see any problem with them as far as it being a safety factor goes. It could be argued that compared to the fumbling for a key in some regular steering column mounted switches there's no real difference. As far as the brake problem is concerned I don't really buy that one. Even if the engine was at full noise with wide open throttle there would be *some* vacuum in the brake booster and there'd be enough vacuum in the bosster to apply maximum brake force with one press of the pedal. If he pumped the pedal and there was no manifold vacuum he'd be out of asistance but the brakes would still *work*. He may not have been physically able to apply enough pressure to over-power the engine and stop the car but it would have been relatively easy to considerably slow it down so it was easier to control. Of course, he'd only have a limited amount of time before the brakes started to fade, and if he couldn't figure out what to do before that happened then he was up sh.t creek. > Also, there is a bit of noise getting around on some forums that there is > more to the fault than the pedal getting caught. These things use "drive > by wire" to electronically link the accelerator to the throttle, instead > of mechanically linking them by a cable or linkages. There is some > conjecture that the real fault actually lies in this system, rather than > the mat as blamed. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if that was the case. Drive by wire throttles are a *woeful* addition to motor cars in just about every example I've ever seen. -- Regards, Noddy. SNIP > Even if the engine was at full noise with wide open throttle there would > be *some* vacuum in the brake booster and there'd be enough vacuum in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would have been relatively easy to considerably slow it down so it was > easier to control. Absolutely. Even with the engine switched off, there is usually enough vacumm in the tank for 3 - 4 pumps before it starts to fade away. Both my F6's have dash mounted starter switches and yes, you are right, they are a complete novelty and I'm f.cked if I can understand the original purpose. I still regualrly turn the ignition key before realising there is a starter button on the dash to press. Roger/Davo > SNIP > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Roger/Davo It's what many vehicles still had up to at least the 1950s. Standard 8 & original Mini both had variations to name just two. Maybe it was a case of the retro movement going one step too far? Cheers >> Yeah I totally agree that he'd have to be a bit thick to not put the thing >> into neutral. My original thought on finding out about it was "typical [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > required it to be held for three seconds to turn the engine off, and if that > really is the case I don't see the difficulty. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ the vehicle was a loaner.....he had just picked it up.....are you (from the safety of yer lounge chair) suggesting that it would be somehow "intuitive" to hold down the *start* button for 3 seconds to shut down the engine on a runaway vehicle??? if you are (from the safety of yer lounge chair) saying that, *you* would have known "instinctively" what to do?? yer a bigger dickhead than i had you pegged as................... The part of the phone > conversation they played back on the news lasted for more than three > seconds, and you gotta figure that in the time it took for the guy to [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Signaturejonz "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind - boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene Spafford,1992 > the vehicle was a loaner.....he had just picked it up..... Lucky him. > are you (from the safety of yer lounge chair) suggesting that it would be > somehow "intuitive" to hold down the *start* button for 3 seconds to shut > down the engine on a runaway vehicle??? No, and only a true fuckwit would reach that conclusion after reading my comments. My point, which clearly went over your piss-sodden rednecked head, was that I don't think "start buttons" are inherrently dangerous in and of themselves, and in this particular case I don't think would've made any difference if he had a button, a key or a bloody boxing glove on an expanding frame that shot out of the centre of the steering wheel and punched him fair in the head. > if you are (from the safety of yer lounge chair) saying that, *you* would > have known "instinctively" what to do?? I can *gaurantee* you, as sure as I'm sitting here, that if I was in his situation you *wouldn't* have been reading about dead people in the paper because I was stupid enough to waste my time talking to some emergency services operator on the phone..... > yer a bigger dickhead than i had you pegged as................... I'll give you the mail right now buddy. When it comes to dickheads, it's been a *very* long time indeed since we've had someone around here who fits that bill as well as you do. You contribute absolutely *nothing* to this group other than to show how much of a simpleton you really are, and despite just about everyone here telling you they think you're about as intelligent as sticky tape you continue to do sweet f.ck all other than continually confirming that belief. I think "dickhead" is one of those terms that's been around for years awaiting for it's Messiah to arrive, and here you are. -- Regards, Noddy. >> the vehicle was a loaner.....he had just picked it up..... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > No, and only a true fuckwit would reach that conclusion after reading my > comments. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ yeah? try this... "It's also been mentioned that the car had a press button start switch which required it to be held for three seconds to turn the engine off, and if that really is the case I don't see the difficulty"... only for you......geez gimme next weeks lottery results... > My point, which clearly went over your piss-sodden rednecked head, was that > I don't think "start buttons" are inherrently dangerous in and of > themselves, and in this particular case I don't think would've made any > difference if he had a button, a key or a bloody boxing glove on an > expanding frame that shot out of the centre of the steering wheel and > punched him fair in the head. ~~~~~~~~~~ nup... yer f.cked and flailing...what a fool... >> if you are (from the safety of yer lounge chair) saying that, *you* would >> have known "instinctively" what to do?? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because I was stupid enough to waste my time talking to some emergency > services operator on the phone..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ really?.. so u are a "superior intellect????.....BWaaaaaaaaHAhhhhaaaa...keep tuggin'... geez yer a source of amusement.ya fuckin twonk... >> yer a bigger dickhead than i had you pegged as................... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as sticky tape you continue to do sweet f.ck all other than continually > confirming that belief. ~~~~~~~~~~~ HUH? > I think "dickhead" is one of those terms that's been around for years > awaiting for it's Messiah to arrive, and here you are ~~~~~~~~~~~~ typical rant....when you are exposed as the gormless twat that you are...."buddy" eh, thought you were anti yank???....f.cking hardly, you busted up piece of flotsam.....FOAD. . > -- > Regards, > Noddy. Signaturejonz "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind - boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene Spafford,1992 > yeah? try this... > "It's also been mentioned that the car had a press > button start switch which required it to be held for three seconds to turn > the engine off, and if that really is the case I don't see the > difficulty"... only for you......geez gimme next weeks lottery results... He spent ten seconds on the phone pissing and moaning to the 911 operator, and it (alegedly) takes three seconds to stop the engine pressing the button *if* he was smart enough to think about doing that. Do the math dickhead. > nup... yer f.cked and flailing...what a fool... Uh-huh. So, you're obviously of the opinion that because he was driving a car he was unfamiliar with, and didn't have enough brains to deal with a relatively minor problem that I'm sure *anyone* here (apart from you) would be able to take care of in around one second he's somehow completely innocent and you have to make excuses for him? > really?.. so u are a "superior > intellect????.....BWaaaaaaaaHAhhhhaaaa...keep tuggin'... geez yer a source > of amusement.ya fuckin twonk... Are you telling me that dealing with a stuck throttle is an inssurmountable problem? You're supposed to be a truck driver, aren't you? Whoa, wait a minute. Maybe that explains why you're as dumb as a chocolate clothes peg.... > HUH? It ain't rocket science pal. You're an idiot. Just about everyone around here thinks so, and you do very little to convince anyone of otherwise. > typical rant....when you are exposed as the gormless twat that you > are...."buddy" eh, thought you were anti yank???....f.cking hardly, you > busted up piece of flotsam.....FOAD. Lol :) Fair dinkum I've met some brainless c.nts in my day, but you've gotta be right up there with the very best of them :) -- Regards, Noddy. <snip> > I feel sorry for the bloke and his passengers, but for f.ck's sake if > you've got enough time to call 911 and have a conversation with the > operator about your problem but *can't* think to take the car out of > gear or get on the brakes hard then the rest of the community is better > off without you. I don't remember where I saw it, but one of the original reports said it was an off-duty Highway Patrolman driving. It was his wife who made the call to 911, because he was flat-out trying to stop the car. There was a suggestion somewhere that he'd already tried standing on the brakes, and that they'd already faded to uselessness. And another point .. the car was apparently a "loaner" and was unfamiliar to the driver, so he really was pushing the proverbial ... (I'll try to find the original story I saw ... was on one of the American newsgroups) > -- > Regards, > Noddy. H. > I don't remember where I saw it, but one of the original reports said it > was an off-duty Highway Patrolman driving. It was his wife who made the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (I'll try to find the original story I saw ... was on one of the American > newsgroups) They played a portion of the 911 recording on the news and it was a bloke's voice on the phone and he sounded like he was driving. He also sounded quite distressed, which I would think would be odd for a highway patrolman who you'd think would be somewhat accustomed to unusual driving circumstances. Whatever the situation really was, why the car couldn't be shifted into neutral remains a mystery. -- Regards, Noddy. > > I don't remember where I saw it, but one of the original reports said it > > was an off-duty Highway Patrolman driving. It was his wife who made the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. Regardless, if it happened as described in the United States of Litigation, i.e: loaner car with special method of turning it off and this *wasn't* clearly conveyed to the customer, then expect at least one arseless employee when the legal catfight subsides! > Regardless, if it happened as described in the United States of > Litigation, i.e: loaner car with special method of turning it off and this > *wasn't* clearly conveyed to the customer, then expect at least one > arseless employee when the legal catfight subsides! Indeed :) -- Regards, Noddy. >> Regardless, if it happened as described in the United States of >> Litigation, i.e: loaner car with special method of turning it off and this >> *wasn't* clearly conveyed to the customer, then expect at least one >> arseless employee when the legal catfight subsides! > > Indeed :) ~~~~~~~~~~ answer, required you motor mouth c.nt.......... > -- > Regards, > Noddy. Signaturejonz "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind - boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene Spafford,1992 > answer, required you motor mouth c.nt.......... Have another Bundy, you mong. -- Regards, Noddy. >> Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's >> & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It was a Highway patrol officer driving the Lexus, with his family on > board. He was driving - it was his wife who called for help. Seems he wasn't too bright unless you can't pull the car into neutral for some crazy reason. Daryl > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & > Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. Played [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > call 911, instead of simply turning the engine off and/or slipping it into > neutral? The short answer is most people are idiots. Fraser > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on > Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > linkage together. My longterm fix was a change to cable > throttle. Old cars - so much fun. Dammit... I *tried* to resist.... "Oh, What A F*ckw*t!" > > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on > > Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Dammit... I *tried* to resist.... > "Oh, What A F*ckw*t!" Then while I was out, I thought 'I'd better reassure the OP that I meant the subject driver in the article and not himself'. >>> Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on >>> Toyota's & Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Then while I was out, I thought 'I'd better reassure the OP that I meant > the subject driver in the article and not himself'. lol. Thanks for that! SignatureWhat is the difference between a duck? > Dammit... I *tried* to resist.... > "Oh, What A F*ckw*t!" Atta boy :) -- Regards, Noddy. > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & > Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. > Played some footage from a 911 call from someone whose accelerator was > stuck who ultimately crashed, and the car burst into flames killing all > 4 on board. Seems like a good result in a "Darwin award" sort of way although not too good if any of the 4 were kids, if they were all adults then no loss as they were already brain dead. > OK, bad design fault, but seriously if you have time to call 911, how > stupid would you have to be to let the stuck accelerator kill you? Why [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > wire held the linkage together. My longterm fix was a change to cable > throttle. Old cars - so much fun. I had a similar problem with a fully loaded 12 tonne truck coming down the Westgate bridge, spring broke and it went to full throttle, shifted into neutral and pulled over into the emergency lane, repaired the problem and drove off. Daryl > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & > Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > wire held the linkage together. My longterm fix was a change to cable > throttle. Old cars - so much fun. found on another ng http://www.freep.com/article/20091104/BUSINESS01/911040368/1207/BUSINESS0104/Som e-dont-buy-mats-at-fault-for-Toyota-accidents > > Just saw a segment on Nine news about a recall in the USA on Toyota's & > > Lexus's because of the accelerator getting stuck under the footmat. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > http://fat.ly/9coc5 The Prius' brakes caught fire and the couple comes from Boiling Springs. I find that rather amusing! He didn't even have to put it in reverse. All he had to do was pull the carpet back with his heel (the carpet was pushing the throttle down). There have been over 20 accidents of this type ! > He didn't even have to put it in reverse. > > All he had to do was pull the carpet back with his heel (the carpet > was pushing the throttle down). > > There have been over 20 accidents of this type ! Which just goes to show that there's certainly a large number of dumb Americans out there :) -- Regards, Noddy. > He didn't even have to put it in reverse. > > All he had to do was pull the carpet back with his heel (the carpet > was pushing the throttle down). > > There have been over 20 accidents of this type ! There is a school of thought that carpets are a diversion and it is something else causing it which they do not want known. |
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