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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / November 2009Sonata key/auto-shifter interlock.
Small things, but nifty, all the same. I parked the car, and had not put the T-bar into 'park' from reverse. I switched the key to 'off'' and attempted to move the key around, to remove it. The key wouldn't budge. After a few seconds I tried moving the shifter to 'park' and the key came around and I was able to withdraw it Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to put the shifter from 'reverse' to 'drive',..this time the shifter wont move from 'reverse' to 'drive' unless you have the foot-brake depressed. I have complained about the build quality of this '98 Sonata. It has a great many weaknesses, mainly to do with cheap plastic handles, and other fittings, plus the thirsty Mitsy V6, but while these additional safety features do not balance these weaknesses out, all the same they are innovative. Jason > Small things, but nifty, all the same. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >features do not balance these weaknesses out, all the same they are >innovative. Unfortunately such interlocks can also get out of whack and cause significant aggravation, just like the standard neutral switch vs starter interlock on autos. >> Small things, but nifty, all the same. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > significant aggravation, just like the standard neutral switch vs > starter interlock on autos. Not good when the car tries to leap backwards.... Jason > Small things, but nifty, all the same. > >I parked the car, and had not put the T-bar into 'park' from reverse. I >switched the key to 'off'' and attempted to move the key around, to remove >it. The key wouldn't budge. After a few seconds I tried moving the shifter >to 'park' and the key came around and I was able to withdraw it Think you'll find that's a standard feature on all modern cars. It came in around the same time as the interlock between the brake light switch and park (ie you've gotta have a foot on the brake pedal to get out of P). >Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to put >the shifter from 'reverse' to 'drive',..this time the shifter wont move from >'reverse' to 'drive' unless you have the foot-brake depressed. Daresay you'll find it a right royal PITA next time you're bogged. ;-) Being able to shuttle shift between R and D to get 'em unstuck has long been one of the features where autos win out over manuals. The old push button Chrysler Torque Flite was much loved among bush folk for precisely that reason. :-)  SignatureJohn H >> Small things, but nifty, all the same. >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > old push button Chrysler Torque Flite was much loved among bush folk > for precisely that reason. :-) I guess there is always a price whenn we give up responsibility for our actions :-) Jason >>>Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to put >>>the shifter from 'reverse' to 'drive',..this time the shifter wont move [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I guess there is always a price whenn we give up responsibility for our >actions :-) Actually I'd seriously wonder if the P lock isn't out of sync as there wouldn't seem to be any useful pupose whatsoever in needing to use the brake to get from R to D. Not that common sense ever stopped the committees who design today's motor cars from showing off their complete lack of it. :) My Mazda 4WD ute has a stupid interlock that requires applying the brake in either P or N to get in or out of low range. The purpose is obviously to prevent shifting ranges while moving at speed. What it also prevents is the handy trick of being able to grab low range just before you stall in high 1st after finding yourself in the middle of deep sh.t. Typically, once you've stopped moving forward for longer than 10mS you don't move again (been there, done that). :) SignatureJohn H >>>> Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to put >>>> the shifter from 'reverse' to 'drive',..this time the shifter wont move [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > deep sh.t. Typically, once you've stopped moving forward for longer > than 10mS you don't move again (been there, done that). :) Told you many times that the Mazda was no good:-) You can shift the Hilux transfer case on the move, from memory the book says no problem under 60kph although I wouldn't want to try it 60kph. Daryl : >>>> Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to put : >>>> the shifter from 'reverse' to 'drive',..this time the shifter wont move [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] : : Daryl In my 4runner it says that I can go from 2WD to 4WD at up to 100Kph. Ive done it at 70 but not game to try at over that. From 4WD H to 4WD L at max 10 Kph and 4WD l to 4WD H at any speed. (You would be lucky to get over 60Kph at redline) >> My Mazda 4WD ute has a stupid interlock that requires applying the >> brake in either P or N to get in or out of low range. The purpose is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >You can shift the Hilux transfer case on the move, from memory the book >says no problem under 60kph although I wouldn't want to try it 60kph. You can shift from high to low range at 60 kph??? If it's anything like both Toyotas I've got I wouldn't be trying it at anything over about 2 kph in 1st while under load (which is the type of situation I was referring to).! I'd also doubt that either of them would make it to 60 kph in low range, in any gear. :) Or did you mean engaging 4WD? The Mazda will change in and out of 4WD high on the fly, it's low range that's locked out (or in). AFAIK all Mazda manuals are lever shift for the transfer case and probably don't lock out low range, autos have a switch. Mine's an auto. SignatureJohn H >>> My Mazda 4WD ute has a stupid interlock that requires applying the >>> brake in either P or N to get in or out of low range. The purpose is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Or did you mean engaging 4WD? Whoops, that's what I remember now that you mention it:-) > The Mazda will change in and out of 4WD high on the fly, it's low > range that's locked out (or in). > > AFAIK all Mazda manuals are lever shift for the transfer case and > probably don't lock out low range, autos have a switch. Mine's an > auto. Yuk. Daryl >> AFAIK all Mazda manuals are lever shift for the transfer case and >> probably don't lock out low range, autos have a switch. Mine's an >> auto. >> >Yuk. Mazda SDX (equivalent to Ford's XLT) offered the auto as a no cost option which made it a no brainer, especially when I'm not the main driver (wife is). You'll also be disappointed to hear it's one of the nicest 5 speed autos I've yet driven. :-) As a straight auto it sh.ts all over the Subaru... since the change downs are far more decisive and it holds off on its up changes for longer on a light throttle. Subie will often shunt between gears on an incline at steady throttle in D (as well as in cruise control) whereas the Mazda doesn't. Pity the Mazda lacks the "tiptronic" feature... which the Subie would be plain awful without. No auto would be my first choice for serious off-roading though. SignatureJohn H >>> AFAIK all Mazda manuals are lever shift for the transfer case and >>> probably don't lock out low range, autos have a switch. Mine's an [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > No auto would be my first choice for serious off-roading though. The auto in my son's fiancée's Liberty is different to other auto's in that it engages gears softly or maybe a better description would be is that there is a delay. When you reverse then shift into drive lots of autos are a bit harsh but the Subby isn't, someone suggested its to do with the electronic throttle. Apart from that I've not noticed any problems with the auto but it is a 2.5lt 4cyl and not the 6 like yours so they may be different. I find manual shifting on any auto including the Liberty and the mates current Outback to be next to useless even more so for those silly paddles on the steering wheel. Daryl >The auto in my son's fiancée's Liberty is different to other auto's in >that it engages gears softly or maybe a better description would be is >that there is a delay. >When you reverse then shift into drive lots of autos are a bit harsh but >the Subby isn't, someone suggested its to do with the electronic throttle. The five speed auto in the Outback probably engages quicker from neutral (or reverse) than most and it's also relatively soft. I doubt if it's got anything to do with the throttle >Apart from that I've not noticed any problems with the auto but it is a >2.5lt 4cyl and not the 6 like yours so they may be different. Considerably different. The 2.5 has a four speed auto, or at least the same year model as mine did. :) >I find manual shifting on any auto including the Liberty and the mates >current Outback to be next to useless even more so for those silly >paddles on the steering wheel. How anyone can avoid shifting manually under at least some commonly encountered conditions defies logic! What do _you_ do on a steep descent (apart from riding the brakes)? :) If it's a twisty ascent, where you need to back off on the turns any modern auto will make a vast number of unnecessary changes if you don't select an appropriate gear. Similarly, I invariably manually select the gear I want before overtaking on an undivided single lane road. Same as I'd change down a manual box before starting to overtake, particularly if it happens to a triple road train. Nor do I like to use kickdown part way through an overtaking manoeuvre, especially where I'm likely to find myself with two wheels out in the gravel. Paddle shifts are mostly a w.nk IMHO, though the downshift paddle can be useful if you want the auto to change down when rolling to a stop. Another feature of the Subie auto is it's tendency to coast in a high gear on a closed throttle (most others will change down of their own accord as the speed drops back). SignatureJohn H > >>> AFAIK all Mazda manuals are lever shift for the transfer case and > >>> probably don't lock out low range, autos have a switch. Mine's an [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Daryl The Subie auto on the '99 2.5 was described on its release as having the most complex control software yet seen in an auto box (can't cite, sorry). Ours made some very interesting decisions at times once two drivers with relatively different driving styles had both put significant kms on it throughout the same period. There were *definitely* appropriate times to use manual shifting to advantage. Cheers >> I find manual shifting on any auto including the Liberty and the mates >> current Outback to be next to useless even more so for those silly [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >throughout the same period. There were *definitely* appropriate times to >use manual shifting to advantage. Cheers Subaru went to the Sportshift in 2003... it's their version of Tiptronic (the original belongs to Porsche). I've no experience with the 4 speed but the 5 speed Sportshift is a fairly ordinary performer as a straight auto transmission (in several respects). The "tiptronic" feature (sequential manual shift) is its saving grace IMO. Anyone who doesn't drive outside of suburbia probably won't ever use it. Anyone who does ought be wondering how they ever lived without it. The floppy paddles, which also come with the 5 speed, I'd happily live without. :) SignatureJohn H >>> I find manual shifting on any auto including the Liberty and the mates >>> current Outback to be next to useless even more so for those silly [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > it. The floppy paddles, which also come with the 5 speed, I'd happily > live without. :) Most of the reasons you don't like the Outback's auto are the same reasons why I don't like any auto, can't say I can recall driving any auto car that I thought was any good. Even worse is the "automated manual trans" in the new Isuzu truck I've been driving this week, bloody hopeless is being too kind. Daryl >>>>Another interlock exists when you have finished reversing, and try to >>>>put [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > committees who design today's motor cars from showing off their > complete lack of it. :) I'll check if there're other shifter i/locks. > My Mazda 4WD ute has a stupid interlock that requires applying the > brake in either P or N to get in or out of low range. The purpose is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > deep sh.t. Typically, once you've stopped moving forward for longer > than 10mS you don't move again (been there, done that). :) Perhaps they're catering to the dumbest driver :-) On another note, I was in a EF Falcon which had the cruise-control on. Somehow the driver knocked the shifter into neutral,...well the engine revved to the cutout (assuming they have one). An interlock here would be good ! Jason >On another note, I was in >a EF Falcon which had the cruise-control on. Somehow the driver knocked the >shifter into neutral,...well the engine revved to the cutout (assuming they >have one). An interlock here would be good ! Think you'll find all the modern stuff is separately rev limited in neutral... neither of mine will pull beyond about 3000 or so in neutral. Ute (Mazda) is redlined at 5500, car (Subaru) is redlined at 7000, both are autos, both change up on the redline at WOT. The maximum rev limiter on EFI engines is set to cut in just below the revs at which the injectors can reach 100% duty cycle under load. Otherwise the leaning of the mixture with increased revs could rapidly destroy the engine. Contrary to popular belief, the likelihood of their flying to bits isn't the problem. :) Presumably you can reach the rev limiter in a modern auto by manually holding a gear, provided you don't hit the speed limiter first, though I can't recall ever trying it. :) SignatureJohn H > Think you'll find all the modern stuff is separately rev limited in > neutral... neither of mine will pull beyond about 3000 or so in > neutral. That's going to make it interesting doing a stationary exhaust noise test at 3/4 of the revs corresponding to maximum horsepower, which is required for certification of modified exhaust systems... Even a typical old carby V8 has to do 3300RPM for the noise test. Modern engines often have to be doing 4000RPM or more. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >> Think you'll find all the modern stuff is separately rev limited in >> neutral... neither of mine will pull beyond about 3000 or so in >> neutral. >That's going to make it interesting doing a stationary exhaust noise >test at 3/4 of the revs corresponding to maximum horsepower, which is >required for certification of modified exhaust systems... >Even a typical old carby V8 has to do 3300RPM for the noise test. >Modern engines often have to be doing 4000RPM or more. I noticed that the DBW "throttle" in the AUdi A3 that I was driving in Europe 3 years ago wouldn't go off-idle while the clutch was depressed, unless one really floored it. Bloody annoying in tight traffic because the TDI is barely audible at idle and you can'tbe sure that the engine hasn't stopped without looking at the rev counter/instruments. Signature/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx >> Think you'll find all the modern stuff is separately rev limited in >> neutral... neither of mine will pull beyond about 3000 or so in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Even a typical old carby V8 has to do 3300RPM for the noise test. >Modern engines often have to be doing 4000RPM or more. Can't say I've checked the exact revs as I've only given either car a quick blip to verify it's there. Peak power for the Subaru is at 6,600 rpm, so it'd need to make close to 5,000 rpm to certify a *modified* exhaust. I'm absolutely confident it won't pull anything like that in neutral. Does this mean they won't let me fit the 3" system I had planned? ;-) SignatureJohn H > I have complained about the build quality of this '98 Sonata. It has a > great many weaknesses, mainly to do with cheap plastic handles, and other > fittings, plus the thirsty Mitsy V6, but while these additional safety > features do not balance these weaknesses out, all the same they are > innovative. My '98 Cherokee had exactly the same systems, along with a beeper that "beeped" for *every* f.cking thing imaginable :) -- Regards, Noddy. |
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