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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / April 2004Dont buy a NISSAN
A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. Last weekend it was hit in the arse whilst parked. $8,000 worth of damage. The insurance company says it will take 3 to 4 months to fix the body panels because parts need to be imported. And they dont know what drive train damage was done, because it waz in gear at the time. The insurance company wont give me mate a replacement car and Nissan don't give a sh.t. So be warned. > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Welcome to the real world, and it just aint Nissan. It aint the vehicles fault, it aint the manufacturers fault, it aint the repairers fault. It's just the world we live in. :-( T.C. Feral > > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the vehicles fault, it aint the manufacturers fault, it aint > the repairers fault. It's just the world we live in. :-( Nissan has a legal responsibility to supply replacement parts in a reasonable time for any car they sold here less than 10yrs old. That said it doesn't take 3mths to get parts from Japan, even sea freight is a lot faster than that. There is something very wrong if they can't fix it a lot faster than that. Daryl >>>A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > There is something very wrong if they can't fix it a lot faster than > that. You put it so much more eloquently Daz. :-) T.C. Feral Even if it was long winded. :-P > Nissan has a legal responsibility to supply replacement parts in a > reasonable time for any car they sold here less than 10yrs old. Around 13 years ago I needed a foam rubber strip that goes between the top of the radiator and bodywork for a 2wd Hilux. Toyota had *none* in Australia. I had the part within a week IIRC. My current Hilux does not have one - I removed it after working out it was a *silly* part anyway that would retain moisture and fall into gooey bits quickly anyway :-) I was probably the only person silly enough in Aus to want one at that time... >> A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >the vehicles fault, it aint the manufacturers fault, it aint >the repairers fault. It's just the world we live in. :-( Bullshit feral, the world is perfect. It's the right distance from the sun. It travels through space at high speed. It's supports frogs so.. don't pick on the world... OK!! Al :-) 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > Bullshit feral, the world is perfect. It's the right distance from the > sun. It travels through space at high speed. It's supports frogs so.. > don't pick on the world... OK!! Sorry Al, probably the medication. Yours. OK. :-P T.C. Feral Sounds like an election year. > Bullshit feral, the world is perfect. It's the right distance from the > sun. It travels through space at high speed. It's supports frogs so.. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 2004 insult page awaits your contribution > http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. Fraser | > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. | > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | | Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. I have one too. OK but lacks grunt | Fraser > | > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > | > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I have one too. OK but lacks grunt You need to upgrade to a GTR. I just happen to know someone who is selling one. ; ) Fraser >You need to upgrade to a GTR. I just happen to know someone who is selling >one. ; ) What's the matter, Fraser? Sick of winning traffic light drags? :P Alex. Ernie and bert don't live in my email address. > >You need to upgrade to a GTR. I just happen to know someone who is selling > >one. ; ) > > What's the matter, Fraser? Sick of winning traffic light drags? :P No one will race me. : ( It also also a prick to get a baby seat and/or a bunch of computers into. WRX wagon has my name on it as my next car. Fraser > > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. Prob. the best car we have owned thus far too,typical Jap really,and much much better off-road than should be. Most manufacturers dont like keeping millions in spares on the shelf,esp. Nissan as they run a lean operation,so a wait is unfortunate Look on the bright side, $8000 is obvs. a big hit, be thankful how robust and safe the vehicle is My only advise is trade it in or sell it,it will NEVER be anything like before CDIHL > Fraser > Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. > > Fraser You must have owned some shitty cars ;) > > Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. > > > > Fraser > > You must have owned some shitty cars ;) sh.t yeah. I owned a Jag. Fraser "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: >> > Too late I already bought one. Best car I ever owned. >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Fraser You forgot to ad that it was a piece of sh.t to start with, made by Leyland, and f.cked by Lucas, and not serviced correctly by you :-) > "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- > 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: > You forgot to ad that it was a piece of sh.t to start with, made by > Leyland, and f.cked by Lucas, and not serviced correctly by you :-) I said it was a piece of sh.t when I said jag. Lucas definitely had a major hand in f.cking it and it was religously serviced. The problem was the religion to servicing anything with lucas electrics involves sacrificing a lot of chickens and they were hard to find at the time. Fraser >> "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in >> news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Fraser Well, you had a horrid model V12, the SI was worse, SIII okay, XJ40 6litre V12 quite goog with the 4 speed auto, and the very last X300 1995-96 style is a collectors item and quite expensive. > >> "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in > >> news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > V12 quite goog with the 4 speed auto, and the very last X300 1995-96 style > is a collectors item and quite expensive. I'd much prefer the supercharged V8. One of my clients supercharged a XJ40 6 for one of their customers. $14000+ for the conversion and it still didn't have V12 mumbo. They should of just dropped a Supra motor in it. ; ) Fraser >> >> "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in >> >> news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Fraser Super charging a XJ40?? They are worthless and ugly. What a waste of money. I could'nt give f.... what they shoved in it :-) > >> >> "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in > >> >> news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > They are worthless and ugly. What a waste of money. > I could'nt give f.... what they shoved in it :-) Saw a XK120 with a "Randal Handle" XJ40 Auto transmission in it. A really neat job. Looked factory except 30 years too new. Same car had aftermarket CD player and aircon as well. All done really well. Lovely car. Fraser >> >> >> "Fraser Johnston" <fraser@jcis.com.au> wrote in >> >> >> news:c65pdh$8dbss$1@ID- 201168.news.uni-berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Fraser I wonder how they fitted the auto? Are you sure it was'nt a replica, there are a few of those around, old style modern mechanics. > > Saw a XK120 with a "Randal Handle" XJ40 Auto transmission in it. A > > really neat job. Looked factory except 30 years too new. Same car [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Are you sure it was'nt a replica, there are a few of those around, old > style modern mechanics. Nope. Ridgey Didge. It was owned by a guy called Glenn Bettridge who had a stable of classic jags. Including the best 420G in Australia. He also had a multiple Australian Concorse winning XK150. I believe the work was done by John Smith (a likely name) who owns Memory Lane in WA and used to be president of the Jag club in WA. Did I ever mention I used to be a member of a jag club? ; ) Fraser >> > Saw a XK120 with a "Randal Handle" XJ40 Auto transmission in it. >> > A really neat job. Looked factory except 30 years too new. Same [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Nope. Ridgey Didge. It was owned by a guy called Glenn Bettridge who > had a stable of classic jags. Including the best 420G in Australia. I'll bet it is white, and was completely rebuilt at a cost of $100,000. The guy who did the work is Michael Gill-Bailey, now living in Redcliff. He has lots of photos of the process and tunes the triple carbies on my 420G > He also had a multiple Australian Concorse winning XK150. I believe > the work was done by John Smith (a likely name) who owns Memory Lane > in WA and used to be president of the Jag club in WA. Did I ever > mention I used to be a member of a jag club? ; ) > > Fraser you guys mind dropping the aus.cars.offroad from you posts not really interested in overpriced pommy crap Kev > >> > Saw a XK120 with a "Randal Handle" XJ40 Auto transmission in it. > >> > A really neat job. Looked factory except 30 years too new. Same [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > Fraser > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > > Last weekend it was hit in the arse whilst parked. That happens. > $8,000 worth of damage. Holy sh.t. Should be written off :-) > The insurance company says it will take 3 to 4 months to fix the body > panels because parts need to be imported. And they dont know what > drive train damage was done, because it waz in gear at the time. Well thay are only "toys". > The insurance company wont give me mate a replacement car and Nissan > don't give a sh.t. I'd find a new insurance coy. And why should Nissan, nothing to do with them. | > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. | > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] | I'd find a new insurance coy. And why should Nissan, nothing to do with | them. NRMA They should have the parts on hand. aint there a law about it? > | > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > | > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > They should have the parts on hand. aint there a law about it? And at a realistic price... > And at a realistic price... Have you ever had a rough go at pricing a vehicle at spare/replacement part prices? I started once and gave up after building the body shell only. :-) Crikey those little plastic bits must be expensive to make. T.C. Feral p.s. oops, it was a Nissan. buy an aussie vehicle if you want overnight panel & parts delivery - it still may take 3 weeks to finally receive one that isn't buckled or manufactured incorrectly - oh what a country we live in. > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. > buy an aussie vehicle if you want overnight panel & parts delivery - it > still may take 3 weeks to finally receive one that isn't buckled or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >>So be warned. Crashed my previous Astra. Panel shop rejected 2 bonnets before they got one they were happy to put on the car.  SignatureBen Thomas Apparently less than 10% of accidents are caused by drivers exceeding the speed limit. > Crashed my previous Astra. Panel shop rejected 2 bonnets before they > got one they were happy to put on the car. You were lucky, and in all probability that panel shop will never get work from that insurer again for not playing the game. There is a semi-secret little game being played by Insurance companies and panel shops. You get quoted for brand new genuine parts. The actual parts (particularly panels) fitted are obtained from non-genuine suppliers (mainly from Indonesia) that cost anything up to 1/4 of the cost of genuine. You drive off happy, the panel shop pockets most of the difference between the cost of genuine parts and non-genuine parts, except for the "back-hander" that goes to the Insurance company assessor. This guy needs to be kept on-side both to ensure future work and to provide a line of protection should the customer (the poor bugger with the car repaired with below original quality parts) have problems down the track and have a whinge about it. A variation of this scheme is where large Dealerships import the non-genuine parts themselves and "backdoor" them to repairers on shonky "genuine part" invoices. The cash difference is then later spread around the various parties. If you pick a mid sized town of say 150,000 people which will be big enough to only have one of a particular brand dealer, this little game earns all concerned a very substantial amount of money. If you want an indication of the quality of some of the non-genuine parts. Some years ago I had a KE-30 Corolla, due to my own silliness in not setting the hand brake it rolled down a short slope and smacked a wall. No significant structural damage but it needed new left and right guards, new bonnet, new grille, new bumper and all front lights and lenses. I knowingly purchased (through a friend in the repair trade) non-genuine import parts as they cost in total less than 1/3 of what the genuine parts from the Toyota importer would have cost. However, the unhappy outcome was:- The bumper showed visible rust less than 2 months after being fitted, eventually it rusted so badly I replaced it with one from a wreck. The metal of the guards was so thin that they flexed, and as a result of the flexing, they cracked at the high point of the wheel arch. The bonnet metal was likewise so thin that simply from being dropped the last couple of inches to close it, the bonnet catch mechanism "regressed" and caused a "bump" in the middle of the bonnet, shortly after the bonnet developed rust holes. The orange indicator lenses faded almost clear within 6 months. On the other hand the grille was perfect, it was in fact both more heavily constructed and (apparently) better plastic than the original. Likewise the Indonesian manufactured radiator. All panels were correctly prepared for painting and sound-deadening material was applied to the inside of the guards and bonnet.The final paint job was properly done, including rust inhibitor in all "doubled" areas. The simple truth was that they were of vastly inferior quality and were not up to any period of actual normal use. If I'd paid for "genuine" parts I'd have been more than a little pissed off I think. As it turned out, I decided to re-engine the car with a 2T-G anyway and along the way I replaced the guards and bonnet with those from a rear-ended wreck that I bought for its mags and "sports" dash. Moral of the story? If you prang a popular model car, you are probably screwed unless you are able to force the issue and have it repaired by a quality panel shop that does not compromise (if any still exist). You may even be better off accepting 2nd hand parts from a wrecker because at least you can be reasonably sure that they are original quality parts. Tony Smith AAMI have a lifetime guarentee on any repair including parts ...maybe I'm naieve but I've been happy with 2 repair jobs that they've done for me. But then I'm only the mug customer :)) > BenOne? wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Tony Smith On 18/4/04 1:04 PM, in article 4081efdb$0$16964$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "Andy" <andy3030@spammail.co> wrote: > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Another 4x4 off the road. Amen. >Another 4x4 off the road. Amen. If this was purely an aus.cars post, I'd be inclined to agree with you - I despise the ones driven as toorak tractors in the inner city. However this is crossposted to .offroad which is probably read by people primarily using 4WDs in their right environment - which is heaps of fun going by what a few mates say, so there's a great bad pun to be found in what you wrote. It _does_ illustrate the mind boggling high cost of repairs that are associated with some 4WD ownership. [By 4WD I mean e.g. the colloquial "truck" sized cars, not performance sedans with AWD systems.] Cheers, Jørgen SignatureJørgen Sundvor Smith mail: jorgen%smith.net >A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > So be warned. If you are going to reject Nissan for the above situation.. you should probably include Mazda, Subaru, Honda.. as well as many other fully imported car manufacturers.. And why should Nissan give a stuff if someone rear-ended your friends car? Greg. | >A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. | > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] | | And why should Nissan give a stuff if someone rear-ended your friends car? Because they should have the parts on hand? > | >A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > | > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Because they should have the parts on hand? They are only required to have the parts available, not on hand. The parts are available, they just have to be ordered from japan in a process that will take a few months. My experience with Fair Trading/Consumer Affairs etc is that they consider a few months to still be within a reasonable time - after all, have you ever noticed how slow things move in legal circles? > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Sounds like an advertisement for a better insurance policy. Its exactly what you get when save $50 on insurance. > > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Sounds like an advertisement for a better insurance policy. Its exactly what > you get when save $50 on insurance. Even if he has the FIRST X Trail ever purchased it would still have a wholesale value of around $24k NO ins. co is going to take a lose like that and write it off,its another $16k on top of what is required to repair it His best advice is to trade it as soon as he gets it back,it will be nothing like before CDIHL > > > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > CDIHL That my point precisely ...... I had a similar accident in a car that was 2 was two weeks old and it was written off under similar circumstances. Only it was at a roundabout not parked, so the gearbox was fine. I didnt own the car and it wasnt my fault. So I had no dramas with it ..... but with the policy broker on my car the payment would have been made all the same. All this rooting around ...... sounds like some chicken sh.t underwriter. You dont much of this crap with Dealer provided Alliance insurance. My dealer brokered insurance is cheaper than NRMA and the service is amazing. Its not the parts suppliers fault ...... its that the insurance is NOT willing to pay for the parts to be flown in like they would be for my car. > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Sorry no such problems with my GQ Patrol. > A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So be warned. Well thats the price you have to pay when buy all this new fully imported crap no one but yourself to blame Buy a aussie car and keep our jobs in Australia > Buy a aussie car and keep our jobs in Australia Pity if you needed a new genuine exhaust system or a windscreen about this time 3 years ago when the companies that supplied those parts were having a bit of industrial action.... Also, much componentry on the so-called Australian made cars is sourced from overseas and you can be subject to exactly the same sort of delays. Even when the part is Australian made you can still be stuffed by circumstance. For example, when the EA Falcon first out there was a bit of a design issue with the rear bumper and skirt in that if you went over a gob of spit on the road the damm thing got torn off. In between the available supply of flawed parts running out and the settling of a modified design with stronger attachments, no one got an EA rear bumper for nearly 4 months. Mob I worked for had a fleet of EA falcons with no rear bumpers. Lastly, buying a Holden or Falcon these days doesn't do diddly to retain a job in Australia. If the two of them disappeared tomorrow, other manufacturers would step into the breach by way of increased output and those same people would be employed in those manufacturing operations. Courtesy of our current Govenrment manufacturers WANT to make cars here because of our slave labour pay rates and low economic impact of our Pacific Peso. In the USA there was a huge hue and cry over the massive cut-backs in staffing levels as the "traditional" US car makers almost went under, also in the component induistry like Delphi etc. In the longer term though there are now as many, if not more people employed in the auto industry in the US than there were when the US based manufacturers dominated, just that the jobs aren't in Detroit anymore. Last comment, and it's meant to be taken lightheartedly. In the mid 70s my Mate and I went touring around Australia by motorcycle. As we passed through the town (forget the name) where they used to make all the Holdens we had a bit of a conversation about cars and my mate said that he would never buy an Australian Car becuase he wanted one made by European craftsmen (his car was an Australian assembled VW so go figure) . As luck would have it, one of us, I actually forget which, was a bit short of money and when we saw the "labour wanted" sign at the factory gate (yes Georgina they used to do that, it was the 70s after all, a time when there were actually more jobs than people to do them) we applied. I lucked out and scored a few days work cleaning junk up out of a holding yard,nice easy outside work. Pete on the other hand actually got to work on the line (due to previous production line experience in an electrical switch manufacturer for Christ sake), he had the task of doing up 2 almost inacessible bolts right up at the top of the guards in the (HJ or HX?) Holdens coming down the line. It was apparently a bastard of a job that no one else wanted to do. Evening 1 we were having a beer and Pete complained that he could not understand a word his immediate co-workers were saying. The foreman was a Pole, the leading hand was French and the remainder were Italian, Hungarian or Turkish. I reminded him of his wish and pointed out that he need go no further than a Holden to have a car screwed together by fine European craftsmen. Tony Smith > > Buy a aussie car and keep our jobs in Australia > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > he need go no further than a Holden to have a car screwed together by > fine European craftsmen. I swear to god that 90% of my car troubles would be over if the Japanese race had bigger hands. Some of the spots to get to in Japanese cars are a nightmare for an average size Aussie guy. Then again the worst prick of a job I ever did on a car was changing a started motor on an XJ12 Jaguar. It took 2 days. The one in my Nissan Exa took 5 minutes. Fraser <| Fraser Johnston |> did write on 20Apr2004 at 12:32:06 AM > I swear to god that 90% of my car troubles would be over if the Japanese > race had bigger hands. Some of the spots to get to in Japanese cars are a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Fraser LOL - If I didn't know better, I'd say that bloody Jag damm near ruined your life! SignatureToby quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt. By Order K.K. > <| Fraser Johnston |> did write on 20Apr2004 at 12:32:06 AM > > I swear to god that 90% of my car troubles would be over if the Japanese [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > LOL - If I didn't know better, I'd say that bloody Jag damm near ruined > your life! You don't know the half of it mate. Picture being under a car in summer holding a 15 kilo starter motor over your head with one hand which has just enough room to drop and break your nose but not enough room to drop free. You have to remove the exhaust and most of the inlet manifold on one side to reach the bastard. All done on ramps. Getting the new one in is the same hassles in reverse. All with oil dripping on you. I was glad to see that car go. Fraser > You don't know the half of it mate. Picture being under a car in summer > holding a 15 kilo starter motor over your head with one hand which has just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hassles in reverse. All with oil dripping on you. I was glad to see that > car go. I amazed it took anyone that amount of suffering to figure that out, I knew I never wanted to touch one the first time I saw one with its bonnet open:-) Daryl > > You don't know the half of it mate. Picture being under a car in summer > > holding a 15 kilo starter motor over your head with one hand which has just [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > knew I never wanted to touch one the first time I saw one with its > bonnet open:-) I was young and stupid. I had the car version of being cuntstruck. Fraser > I swear to god that 90% of my car troubles would be over if the > Japanese race had bigger hands. Some of the spots to get to in > Japanese cars are a nightmare for an average size Aussie guy. Then > again the worst prick of a job I ever did on a car was changing a > started motor on an XJ12 Jaguar. It took 2 days. The one in my > Nissan Exa took 5 minutes. The hotels and othe rplaces frequented by westerners have been changed now, but you should try pissing or crapping into a bowl or urinal that is "Japanese High". A few years back I stayed at Nara Seaworld at the Gold Coast, they had urinals at varying heights and likewise the cibicles. Also, agree with Jag starter motor. I can think of one worse though. A onetime workmate who desperately wanted to own and drive an "Inspector Morse" type jag but was pissed off with its performances and reliability bunged a 307 Chev into it, plus puprose bent extractors. Now try getting the starter out...... Two days! Luxury mate, luxury! Tony Smith (snip) >Lastly, buying a Holden or Falcon these days doesn't do diddly to >retain a job in Australia. If the two of them disappeared tomorrow, >other manufacturers would step into the breach by way of increased >output and those same people would be employed in those manufacturing >operations. Not unless they travelled overseas. Nissan pulled out when their market share dropped permanently into single figures, and Mitsubishi play slippery slopes on a banana skin year in year out. If no more Falcadores, we'd simply get more imported jap/korean/malaysian stuff. I don't think any of those manufacturers would be that keen to establish here. And at best, any such presence would be CKD assembly. (Caveat: if Proton were interested in the Mits plant, it tells more of a stroy about them than any support for your argument). > (snip) > > Lastly, buying a Holden or Falcon these days doesn't do diddly to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (Caveat: if Proton were interested in the Mits plant, it tells more > of a stroy about them than any support for your argument). Not thinking very laterally today are we? No more Falcodore means no more local product protection and silly quotas, import duties etc.... Imagine an Australia where things like BMW, Fiat, Peugot, Citreon, Vovlo, SAAB etc were priced much, much lower than they currently are. Wanna make a bet that at least 2 of those manufacturers would want to set up manufacturing operations? Itsumbitchi would forget all about the "maybe we will, maybe we won't" if their highly protecrted and subsidised competition disappeared.....Their constant whinging and whining is part of an attempt to argue that they should be included as a "local" product... You might also like to recall that Nissan in Melbourne to this very day occupy what was the VW/Audi production facility, they pulled out when good old ozzie "local" product protection meant that they could no longer compete against the subsidised local product. Other exciting things would happen too. Manufacturers like Toyota would no longer get away with grafting the panel work of a model that the USA buyers lost interest in to the floor pan of their cooking model (Camry) and attempt to market the resultant bastard child as something "upmarket" (Avalon). The tradiitonal view of the Austraian market by the japanese has been to package their vehicles at just above the mid point end of their equipment and fitout catalogue and then combine that with below mid-point engine and drive train options, and not to provide too many options their into the bargain. Imagine a Camry (for example and becuase I rather like it as a package) with similar trim and fitout levels to Lexus, with sports oriented suspension, AWD and a V6 turbo diesel that gives much the same (or better) performance than the elderly v6 petrol we currently get, yet can return up to 60mpg..... Etc etc. Cars like that don't make it into Australia for two reasons. 1/. Current tariff/import arrangements push them into the "luxury" car bracket with all the associated costs. 2/. They don't need to bring something so far in excess of the "benchmark" Falcadore offerings to be competitive. In fact they can pretty much get away with any kind of crap (see Avalon and to an extent the very, very dated Magna chassis compared to other Mitsi offerings elsewhere). Tony Smith > > (snip) > > > Lastly, buying a Holden or Falcon these days doesn't do diddly to [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > good old ozzie "local" product protection meant that they could no > longer compete against the subsidised local product. Only thing that makes them "local" is they meet the local content regulations which is all any manufacturer has to do to be regarded as local. Daryl "Tony Smith" <tony@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Imagine an Australia where things like BMW, Fiat, Peugot, Citreon, > Vovlo, SAAB etc were priced much, much lower than they currently are. Imagine a Government that would actually abolish tarrifs and other "industry protection" taxes if local manufacturuing ended? I can't... (Incidentlly, I'd also happy support policies that kept cars made by Fiat, Citreon and Saab out of the country permanently :) > Wanna make a bet that at least 2 of those manufacturers would want to > set up manufacturing operations? Given the massive costs associated with a new manufacuring plant these days, both in terms of contruction and wages, and the unreliablity of the Australian labour force, I wouldn't be willing to put big money on any one of them wanting to start operations here. Especially in light of the cheaper Asian alternatives... > Itsumbitchi would forget all about the "maybe we will, maybe we won't" > if their highly protecrted and subsidised competition > disappeared.....Their constant whinging and whining is part of an > attempt to argue that they should be included as a "local" product... The Magna is as local as the Commodore, Falcon, Camry and Avalon. > You might also like to recall that Nissan in Melbourne to this very day > occupy what was the VW/Audi production facility, they pulled out when > good old ozzie "local" product protection meant that they could no > longer compete against the subsidised local product. I could be wrong here, but to my knowledge Nissan hasn't had anything to do with the Clayton plant for quite some time, and the place has become an industrial estate housing a number of individual businesses. Linfox and HSV being the most notable.... > Other exciting things would happen too. Manufacturers like Toyota would > no longer get away with grafting the panel work of a model that the USA > buyers lost interest in to the floor pan of their cooking model (Camry) > and attempt to market the resultant bastard child as something > "upmarket" (Avalon). Toyota have *never* got away with it. Ever looked at the sales figures? :) > The tradiitonal view of the Austraian market by the japanese has been > to package their vehicles at just above the mid point end of their > equipment and fitout catalogue and then combine that with below > mid-point engine and drive train options, and not to provide too many > options their into the bargain. Really? There's differences between models, sure, but those differences exist *all over the world*, not just between Japan and Australia, and a lot of it can be attributed to what they make that meets with Australian government regulations. Believe me, I've been to Japan and *know* what they think of Australians, but they also think the same way about everyone else too.... > Imagine a Camry (for example and becuase I rather like it as a package) > with similar trim and fitout levels to Lexus, with sports oriented > suspension, AWD and a V6 turbo diesel that gives much the same (or > better) performance than the elderly v6 petrol we currently get, yet > can return up to 60mpg..... Nice. > Cars like that don't make it into Australia for two reasons. > > 1/. Current tariff/import arrangements push them into the "luxury" car > bracket with all the associated costs. Yeah, but that's cause the car is *expensive*. Are you suggesting that with local production gone they'll (a) be *able* to make something like that available in the Falcadore's price range, and (b) that they'd want to if they could? > 2/. They don't need to bring something so far in excess of the > "benchmark" Falcadore offerings to be competitive. In fact they can > pretty much get away with any kind of crap (see Avalon and to an extent > the very, very dated Magna chassis compared to other Mitsi offerings > elsewhere). I think you're giving them *way* too much credit here... Avalon and Magna are very definitely *not* competitive compared to Falcon and Commodore, and honestly couldn't be considered so by anyone. If Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan or anyone else wishes to dominate the large family car segment of the Australian market, they have to first release something the people will *want* to buy, and at a price they'll want to pay. Mitsubishi and Toyota have largely been unsuccessful to that end thus far, and they'll need to rely on their product to sell on it's merrits, rather than a lack of cometition if the local industry fails... Regards, Noddy. Noddy wrote: nothing I care to mention. Mongrel, the drive did you *no* good. :-P T.C. Feral "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c62jub$718c3$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > Mongrel, the drive did you *no* good. :-P No, I'm still an arsehole :) Regards, Noddy. > No, I'm still an arsehole :) Well give us a rundown on the Getz *A*. ;-) T.C. Feral >> No, I'm still an arsehole :) >> >Well give us a rundown on the Getz *A*. ;-) > >T.C. Feral Wierd looker! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. >>Well give us a rundown on the Getz *A*. ;-) > > Wierd looker! But I did say the *Getz* Oz. ;-) A lot of the *tiny* cars are looking funny. T.C. Feral And I dont scribble. I type like I live, fast and with a lot of mistakes. "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c63n16$7kjc9$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > Well give us a rundown on the Getz *A*. ;-) I didn't think anyone around here would be interested to be honest. However, for those that are, it went perfectly. The round trip was almost dead on 2000km, and the Getz was as comfortable over that distance as anything I've driven. It sat on 125km/h comfortably for most of the way, had the air on 24/7 and used 85 bucks worth of fuel for the journey with a tad under a quarter of a tank left when I pulled up at home in the driveway. It gave an honest account of itself, and performed better than some... Regards, Noddy. > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c63n16$7kjc9$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > It gave an honest account of itself, and performed better than some... And what sort of an appraisal would a taller person have given IYHO. :-) T.C. Feral "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c65ee3$86fem$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > And what sort of an appraisal would a taller person have given > IYHO. :-) Actually, I think a taller person would probably find it surprising. My one criticism of the car would be that the steering wheel is too close to the dash, and needs to be adjustable for short arses like me. Not that I found it uncomfortable, but if it was telescopic as well as tilt it would have been a bit nicer. I imagine anyone taller that me wouldn't find it a problem at all. For a small car, they are surprisingly roomy inside. Regards, Noddy. > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c65ee3$86fem$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > found it uncomfortable, but if it was telescopic as well as tilt it would > have been a bit nicer. My '87 Subaru had tele/tilt. Some are a long way behind eh. I imagine anyone taller that me wouldn't find it a > problem at all. I know, I was having a go. ;-) > For a small car, they are surprisingly roomy inside. My sons Holden/Suzuki/Cruze *seems* gigantic inside. Not *that* comfortable though. T.C. Feral "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c6717q$8tmbt$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > My '87 Subaru had tele/tilt. Some are a long way behind eh. Yeah, they are, but some are just cheap, too :) > I know, I was having a go. ;-) I know :) > My sons Holden/Suzuki/Cruze *seems* gigantic inside. > Not *that* comfortable though. I wouldn't say this thing's gigantic, and I'd certainly hate to be a rear seat passenger (it's actually more like a 2 + 2 than a dedicated 4 seater) Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing didn't annoy me once. Regards, Noddy. > Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing > didn't annoy me once. Gee, we belong to the same club I think. Bulging disc/nerve compression? :-( T.C. Feral feral <plonked@home.ru> wrote in news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- berlin.de: >> Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing >> didn't annoy me once. >> > Gee, we belong to the same club I think. Bulging disc/nerve > compression? :-( Yep, L5 S1 gone completely, one above it compressed :-) Is this the BDNC Club? :-) > feral <plonked@home.ru> wrote in news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Is this the BDNC Club? :-) U sure U got the right "anac" there. You aren't talking BouNCe BNC, so what U on about? T.C. Feral > feral <plonked@home.ru> wrote in news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > berlin.de: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Is this the BDNC Club? :-) Don't know, I haven't let the quacks play with mine, I just stay flat on my back for a few days till it comes good. > > Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing > > didn't annoy me once. > > > Gee, we belong to the same club I think. Bulging disc/nerve > compression? :-( Something to do with our age:-) When my back is giving me grief sometimes the best thing to do is going for a drive, I've spent so much of my life driving that my body thinks sitting in a car/truck seat is natural so it cures my back pain:-) Daryl > Something to do with our age :-) > When my back is giving me grief sometimes the best thing to do is going > for a drive, I've spent so much of my life driving that my body thinks > sitting in a car/truck seat is natural so it cures my back pain:-) Seating comfort has been near the top of my priority list for a number of years now, don't laugh, hence the Avalon. Best I ever had was the Vortex, virtual armchair. sigh. I've driven all my working life to, and still enjoy it. T.C. Feral > > Something to do with our age :-) > > When my back is giving me grief sometimes the best thing to do is going [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > had was the Vortex, virtual armchair. sigh. > I've driven all my working life to, and still enjoy it. Best thing I ever did to my Landcruiser was to fit Honda Prelude seats, the comfort level improved significantly. I call my Fairlane the "mobile lounge room", its a very comfortable car which I'm actually enjoying driving:-) Daryl > I call my Fairlane the "mobile lounge room", its a very comfortable car > which I'm actually enjoying driving:-) Arrr, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. I had many sleepless nights after the Vortex and I parted company. It did get up and went. :-) T.C. Feral > Something to do with our age:-) Well, I'm 34 and have sciatic problems of varying severity... > When my back is giving me grief sometimes the best thing to do is going > for a drive, I've spent so much of my life driving that my body thinks > sitting in a car/truck seat is natural so it cures my back pain:-) Believe it or not, the most effective treatment I've found is belly dancing... Strengthens the abdominal muscles in a balanced manner that basically eliminates the problem while the exercise is kept up. A few months after stopping (we stopped just before my wife gave birth), it started to play up again and has gradually become worse. :-( I've seriously considered fitting the '91 Camry seats (that I had in the HG ute) to the VP, as the commode seats seriously suck! SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > Believe it or not, the most effective treatment I've found is belly > dancing... Watching? :-) T.C. Feral >> Believe it or not, the most effective treatment I've found is belly >> dancing... > Watching? :-) No. :-) SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. athol <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:c67qid$938jc$1@ID-215292.news.uni- berlin.de: >> Something to do with our age:-) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dancing... Strengthens the abdominal muscles in a balanced manner > that basically eliminates the problem while the exercise is kept up. Send film clips :-) >> Believe it or not, the most effective treatment I've found is belly >> dancing... Strengthens the abdominal muscles in a balanced manner >> that basically eliminates the problem while the exercise is kept up. > Send film clips :-) No. You can, however, buy the video... SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > I've seriously considered fitting the '91 Camry seats (that I had in > the HG ute) to the VP, as the commode seats seriously suck! Comfortable/supportive seats can do a lot to improve ones opinion of any car. I was amazed that the person I sold the Landcruiser to had no trouble getting a roadworthy with the Honda seats fitted, the fitment had never been passed by an engineer yet the tester didn't even mention them, so much for RWC's. Daryl > I was amazed that the person I sold the Landcruiser to had no trouble > getting a roadworthy with the Honda seats fitted, the fitment had never > been passed by an engineer yet the tester didn't even mention them, so > much for RWC's. A friend, NSW, South Australia, and rego plates come to mind ... > > I was amazed that the person I sold the Landcruiser to had no trouble > > getting a roadworthy with the Honda seats fitted, the fitment had never > > been passed by an engineer yet the tester didn't even mention them, so > > much for RWC's. > > A friend, NSW, South Australia, and rego plates come to mind ... It was in Vic and I wondered if something dodgy went on. The Landcruiser was in very good condition but as well as the seats the front seat belts were a bit dodgy yet it was passed without a fault being found which I find amazing for a 1979 vehicle. Daryl > Comfortable/supportive seats can do a lot to improve ones opinion of any > car. Indeed they can. > I was amazed that the person I sold the Landcruiser to had no trouble > getting a roadworthy with the Honda seats fitted, the fitment had never > been passed by an engineer yet the tester didn't even mention them, so > much for RWC's. I recently took photos of seats mounted into an L300 using timber, self tappers and 1mm wall aluminium RHS... The blue slip guy had passed the seats but sent it for an engineering certificate on the 2.6 Sigma engine, and was *very* embarrassed when I told him... SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > > Comfortable/supportive seats can do a lot to improve ones opinion of any > > car. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > passed the seats but sent it for an engineering certificate on the > 2.6 Sigma engine, and was *very* embarrassed when I told him... Mine may not have been inspected and passed but the job was done properly. Lengths of 25X25X5mm angle iron were bolted to the original seat mounting holes and the new seats bolted to the angle iron. Daryl >> > Comfortable/supportive seats can do a lot to improve ones opinion >> > of any car. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Lengths of 25X25X5mm angle iron were bolted to the original seat > mounting holes and the new seats bolted to the angle iron. Daryl, What are those air cushion truck seats like? I remember Army Mack trucks having them as the truck was such a bone jarring bastard :-) (I may have been in Transport but did not drive trucks) Ron > >> > Comfortable/supportive seats can do a lot to improve ones opinion > >> > of any car. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > What are those air cushion truck seats like? Very comfortable. Only problem I have with the seat in the Daf is when it moves up and down a long way on a big bump my left elbow hits the gearlever:-( Its got 6 adjustments which can be a PITA when there are 2 drivers of very different sizes, somedays it takes me a long time to get the seat in exactly the right position. Daryl "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > Gee, we belong to the same club I think. Bulging disc/nerve > compression? :-( Kinda. I got knocked off a bike years ago, leaving me with a broken back and pelvis, and while the pelvis thing got significantly better with help, the back was largely left to heal itself. More recently when I was knocked off *again* I broke my left hip and fractured the L5 vertebrae. This time I ended up with a titanium hip, and the arthritis that had started take hold in the lower back has come on with a vengeance. Oh, and there's 2 or 3 disks down there that ain't real flash either, and I *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as "fusing" seems to be pretty unsuccessful... Regards, Noddy. >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message >news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >*might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as "fusing" seems to >be pretty unsuccessful... One of my problems is C5 ..as in cervical (sp..ine) a bt of a c**t. I don't want any doctor to f.ck with it Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html > Oh, and there's 2 or 3 disks down there that ain't real flash either, and I > *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as "fusing" seems to > be pretty unsuccessful... I never got knocked off, or fell off a bike, touch wood. My major prob is nerve compression in the channels, effecting the legs. Nerves get really crushed/severed and legs wont work, fingers crossed again. As Daz said, something to do with our age, dont know about you, with you it could be height. Anyway keep your chin up, it gives us a good shot. :-P Hey, fusing is probably better than the alternatives, list them. T.C. Feral >> Oh, and there's 2 or 3 disks down there that ain't real flash either, >> and I *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > T.C. Feral I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it gets worse :-) I've buggered discs in my neck (good "OLD" Army training) and now have arthritis as well. The arthritis grows around the nerve openings in the vertabrae and "Strangles" the feeling nerves to arms and hands. Nice :-) Ron (Sorry about the poor spelling, I'm on the piss :-) >>>Oh, and there's 2 or 3 disks down there that ain't real flash either, >>>and I *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Ron > (Sorry about the poor spelling, I'm on the piss :-) Kriste are we all suffering the same fate. I too am suffering because of army training. I too have compression on the nerves to my arms (my ulna nerve is rooted). I also have compression in the upper neck (which has my GP worried as well as myself), if it cuts in, total paralysis is the outcome (crushed/severed spinal cord). A head without a working body.....eek. :-) I'll keep smiling though. :-) T.C. Feral We're all a mob of crocks. >> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it gets worse :-) >> I've buggered discs in my neck (good "OLD" Army training) and now [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > because of army training. I too have compression on the nerves > to my arms (my ulna nerve is rooted). I also have compression Yep, had one fixed, the other to be done. > in the upper neck (which has my GP worried as well as myself), > if it cuts in, total paralysis is the outcome (crushed/severed > spinal cord). A head without a working body.....eek. :-) > I'll keep smiling though. :-) I'll bet you have the same sensation of a "grinding noise" when you turn your head :-) > T.C. Feral > We're all a mob of crocks. Too true, these days running on sealed roads in GP's is not on. Jumping off trucks in full battle order, is not on. Travelling in vehicles without seat belts (trucks), is not on. Sleves must be worn down to prevent sun cancer, along with the slouchy brim down. And the list goes on... At least the ADF has recognised why the oldies are a bunch of crocks :-) Ron > Yep, had one fixed, the other to be done. I had the left one, not-fixed, total failure. :-( > I'll bet you have the same sensation of a "grinding noise" when you turn > your head :-) > And loud reports up and down. > Too true, these days running on sealed roads in GP's is not on. > Jumping off trucks in full battle order, is not on. Wasn't even that sh.t-hot in the back of the trucks. > Travelling in vehicles without seat belts (trucks), is not on. > Sleves must be worn down to prevent sun cancer, along with the slouchy > brim down. And the list goes on... They are sh.t scared of being sued these days. Pity it's too late> > At least the ADF has recognised why the oldies are a bunch of crocks :-) Did you have the luxury of ear plugs/muffs on the range. I've had tinnitus since I was 17. T.C. Feral >> Yep, had one fixed, the other to be done. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Did you have the luxury of ear plugs/muffs on the range. I've > had tinnitus since I was 17. At 1RTB, yes, Canungra JTC, no, SVN, NO :-) Peace time trg, yes. I have it to, since I was 18. I run an airconditioner in our bedroom every night. The aicon noise is better than that of the ears :-) Ron > I have it to, since I was 18. I run an airconditioner in our bedroom > every night. The aicon noise is better than that of the ears :-) Yep, about all you can do. Oh well, life goes on. T.C. Feral. > At least the ADF has recognised why the oldies are a bunch of crocks :-) My brother (17yrs younger than me) who has spent at least 4 yrs of his Army service as a trainer (2yrs at Kapooka and 2 at Duntroon) complains that he is not even allowed to swear at recruits/cadets anymore:-) Daryl >> At least the ADF has recognised why the oldies are a bunch of crocks :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Daryl That is VERY true, Daryl. Has been that way for a long time. Not like Jan 1968 when this upstart got on our bus and said " Alright you c**t's, you hav 5 seconds to get out of this vehicle and line up in three ranks". I said, "I beg your pardon!" (never been spoken too like that before).... Never said that again, he eat garlic and spat when he talked :-) Ron "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c67r8a$8pe4c$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > I never got knocked off, or fell off a bike, touch wood. My > major prob is nerve compression in the channels, effecting the > legs. Nerves get really crushed/severed and legs wont work, > fingers crossed again. As Daz said, something to do with our > age, dont know about you, with you it could be height. Anyway > keep your chin up, it gives us a good shot. :-P Bastard! Nyer... :) > Hey, fusing is probably better than the alternatives, list them. So far the alternatives are regular quarterzone injections, or permanent nerve killing ones once they find the exact spot that's causing the most trouble. The non surgical alternatives are lots of pain, and an addiction to pain killing drugs. Regards, Noddy. > The non surgical alternatives are lots of pain, and an addiction to pain > killing drugs. Right, so my advice (4whatitsworth), keep weighing everything up, and watch for a shift in balance. Oh, and get *more* than one opinion. I go to two GP's. T.C. Feral "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > Right, so my advice (4whatitsworth), keep weighing everything > up, and watch for a shift in balance. Oh, and get *more* than > one opinion. I go to two GP's. Good advice. Already seeing (or have seen) 2 different and highly recommended orthopaedic surgeons, and their advice has mostly been the same over a period of time. As mentioned, the arthritis is coming on stronger than ever, and the change in my general condition brings about a change in their opinions to a degree, but the back fusing still seems to be the considered opinion. I'm going to wait for a while yet.... Regards, Noddy. >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message >news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Regards, >Noddy. Broke my hip and leg nearly 30 years ago when my death trap Carrera decided to swap ends and stuff itself into a pole Was told then that I could expect arthritis and a future hip replacement but I've been lucky so far with only very mild arthritis. Been taking high dose Glucosamine tablets and powder for 20 years and it seems to work. Mates with shoulder injuries put me on to it. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. > Broke my hip and leg nearly 30 years ago when my death trap Carrera > decided to swap ends and stuff itself into a pole [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it seems to work. > Mates with shoulder injuries put me on to it. Yeah, I'm using that too, and it's quite good. Avoid the hip replacement if you can at all, as it's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy... Regards, Noddy. >> Broke my hip and leg nearly 30 years ago when my death trap Carrera >> decided to swap ends and stuff itself into a pole [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Regards, > Noddy. I don't get ozone posts, as I firmly believw he is a Tool :-) Now I know why he has a Magna. > Broke my hip and leg nearly 30 years ago when my death trap Carrera> He is old and plays bowls, hence the Fagna LOL... Ron >I don't get ozone posts, as I firmly believw he is a Tool :-) Bwaaaahahahahahahahhahaaaaaa! >Now I know why he has a Magna. You have no clue Ron! >> Broke my hip and leg nearly 30 years ago when my death trap Carrera> > >He is old and plays bowls, hence the Fagna LOL... Bwaaaahahahahahhahahaaaa! Nah actually it's because walking long distances makes my hip hurt. If I owned a Jag I'd be in constant pain. >Ron Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. > >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > >news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > it seems to work. > Mates with shoulder injuries put me on to it. That stuff is gold. I tell all the guys at Ju-Jitsu about it and now they are all on it. I tore my rotator cuff in my shoulder one night and doubled my dose. 2 days later I was training again. If not for the gluosamine I would of had at least a month off. The key is to take a lot of it regularly. You don't stop when the pain goes away or it comes back with a vengance. Fraser > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I'm going to wait for a while yet.... "Life wasn't meant to be easy". I think a *Mex* said that. Bastard when the balls in your court, and you've got a crook back. :-) Keep Smiling. Feral > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > period of time. As mentioned, the arthritis is coming on stronger than > ever, I'm currently using Vioxx which is better than Voltaren Rapid 50. Ron > I'm currently using Vioxx which is better than Voltaren Rapid 50. My GP has me alternating anti-inflammatories monthly, to confuse the arthritis. :-) T.C. Feral > > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > > news:c69m2c$9f3pp$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ron I find Voltaren to be worse than useless. Fraser > > Oh, and there's 2 or 3 disks down there that ain't real flash either, and I > > *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as "fusing" seems to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > legs. Nerves get really crushed/severed and legs wont work, > fingers crossed again. A mate had a problem like that recently corrected by surgery, the surgery was very successful and he no longer has a problem with his lower body going numb all of a sudden causing him to fall over. For 8 weeks he was not allowed to sit down, he had to either stand or lie flat on his back which wasn't fun but the results are worth it in his case. Daryl > A mate had a problem like that recently corrected by surgery, the > surgery was very successful and he no longer has a problem with his > lower body going numb all of a sudden causing him to fall over. > For 8 weeks he was not allowed to sit down, he had to either stand or > lie flat on his back which wasn't fun but the results are worth it in > his case. Good on ya Daz, I was getting pissed off with all the negatives. :-) T.C. Feral > > A mate had a problem like that recently corrected by surgery, the > > surgery was very successful and he no longer has a problem with his [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Good on ya Daz, I was getting pissed off with all the > negatives. :-) After reading all the posts about your bad backs I think I'll never complain about mine again, by comparison it sounds in perfect condition. Daryl > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c674m1$876s7$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > *might* be having that area fused soon. Don't know yet, as "fusing" seems to > be pretty unsuccessful... For f.cks sake don't do that (yet) as it's a one wya trip (as you most likely know). I generally brush over the fact that I used to be very passionate about weight training, but I'd give some very serious thought to looking at some of the physio therapy related stuff that's actually come out of powerlifting circles in the last decade or so. I got to hear about a bloke by the name of Louie Simmons who now runs a facility known as www.westside-barbell.com/ I actually originally got involved in it (lifting) after years of avid cycling had left me with degerative problems in both knee cartilages and severe patella mistracking (from under recruitment of the vastusmedialis) and had suffered 6 left and 2 right knee dislocations. My specialists at the time said cycling would in fact help (in fact it exacerbated if not solely caused) the problems, and no amount of physio did a pincxh of sh.t whilst I still tried to cycle. Since giving it away, and taking up weight lifting, I haven't (even after a few years of neglecting the weights) had any knee issues whatsoever. In a similar sense some of the stuff I picked up through powerlifting training (and I didn't compete, the training became and end unto itself, I literally trained for the results the training gave me, not any indirect ability to demonstrate that ability in competition) have application for back injuries. As an off the cuff example, I'd suggest you discuss with your physiotherapist an exercise called REVERSEhyperextensions. They are about the only exercise which moves that part of the torso whilst at the same time completely unloading the discs, putting no pressure on them. I've seen it used in physio with an automated machine that helps the patient complete the movement, whereas in powerlifting the trainee gets to the point of loading literally hundreds of pounds to their lower legs as additional resistance. Of course they build up to that over years, but Louie Simmons himself was told he'd never walk again after crippling back injuries (from improper lifting, he's a true case of 'learn from my mistakes' and doesn't mind shooting straight) and ended up, through development of rehabilitative exercises like this not only to prove the specialists wrong, he went on setting personal bests in all powerlifts (at around 50 years of age too, imagine those methods hads he applied them in his prime!) and he is an elite ranked powerlifter to this day. I can't guarantee it would help, but I'd fucken try witchcraft and voodoo before I ever let anyone fuse my lower vertebrae. SignatureJohn McKenzie tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com fraudinfo@psinet.com sweep.day@accc.gov.au uce@ftc.gov admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost $USER@localhost $USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost root@mailloop.com president@whitehouse.gov vice.president@whitehouse.gov abuse@iprimus.com.au abuse@cia.gov abuse@fbi.gov abuse@asio.gov.au abuse@federalpolice.gov.au > I can't guarantee it would help, You pretty-well can, it's muscle and sinue (sp) that hold us together, I do physio for my back every day and it's all to do with muscle build/tone. All the exercises are designed to strengthen the muscles that support the spine but not hurt the spine. but I'd fucken try witchcraft and > voodoo I wouldn't go that far. Maybe watch belly-dancing, like Athol. :-) before I ever let anyone fuse my lower vertebrae. Also a point will, in most cases, be reached where damage to nerves could result unless verts were fused. If they can't move, they can't severe or crush. Depends on the severity of individual cases. T.C. Feral <| feral |> did write on 22Apr2004 at 6:25:37 PM > Also a point will, in most cases, be reached where damage to > nerves could result unless verts were fused. If they can't > move, they can't severe or crush. Depends on the severity of > individual cases. > > T.C. Feral Yeah - I always wondered why the can fuse them but claim they don't know how to fix them? SignatureToby quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt. By Order K.K. > <| feral |> did write on 22Apr2004 at 6:25:37 PM > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Yeah - I always wondered why the can fuse them but claim they don't know > how to fix them? Go to any medical site Toby and see what the consequences can be to the nerves where they exit the spinal column, should there be wear/mal-alignment/arthritis etc. Not pretty. T.C. Feral > I wouldn't go that far. > Maybe watch belly-dancing, like Athol. :-) I'm sure I didn't say anything about watching... I would *seriously* recommend it to _anybody_ who has a back problem. Most of my back was quite stiff when I started, and over a period of 18 months or so, much of the tightness freed up. After about 12 months off, I seriously expect that it'll be a hard start back in, but within months, the sciatica should be completely back under control and I'll probably be able to get the little stiff patch between the shoulder blades freed up. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >>I wouldn't go that far. >>Maybe watch belly-dancing, like Athol. :-) > > I'm sure I didn't say anything about watching... Any virile man would assume it IMHO. :-) > I would *seriously* recommend it to _anybody_ who has a back problem. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but within months, the sciatica should be completely back under > control I lay on my belly to do most of my physio, that's close enough. > and I'll probably be able to get the little stiff patch > between the shoulder blades freed up. ? T.C. Feral Has the snail delivered? >I lay on my belly to do most of my physio, that's close enough. Doing - the frog - no doubt. If the doctor can't fixya and you don't like his elixir do the frog, do the frog, do the frog If you find yer bones are wearin and you'd like to give up swearin do the frog, do the frog, do the frog doooo thaaaahhhh frrrogggg I find the most important thing is not to dwell on your problems and well.... let's compare length of surgical scars, mines 8 inches long and I'm not boasting or exaggerating, just ask my missus. Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>I lay on my belly to do most of my physio, that's close enough. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > do the frog, do the frog, do the frog > doooo thaaaahhhh frrrogggg I'll tell her you said that Al. > I find the most important thing is not to dwell on your problems and > well.... let's compare length of surgical scars, mines 8 inches long > and I'm not boasting or exaggerating, just ask my missus. 14cm, and that's around the neck. :-) T.C. Feral > >I lay on my belly to do most of my physio, that's close enough. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 2004 insult page awaits your contribution > http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html Mines twelve inches. Gee circumcision is a bastard. ; ) Fraser >> >I lay on my belly to do most of my physio, that's close enough. >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Mines twelve inches. Gee circumcision is a bastard. ; ) So the doc slipped and made you into a girl with a 6" crack? Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >> and I'll probably be able to get the little stiff patch >> between the shoulder blades freed up. > ? When I started belly dancing, most of my back was _very_ tight and stiff. Over 18 months or so, it loosened up beyond my best expectations. In order to keep the sciatica under control, I've had to exercise the lower back, and that's stayed quite flexible, but the neck is a bit stiffer than I'd like and there is a quite distinct patch in the middle of the back that is tight and creaks when flexed... > Has the snail delivered? Indeed it has. Very much appreciated. Can't respond in kind since there was no return address... SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > When I started belly dancing, most of my back was _very_ tight and > stiff. Over 18 months or so, it loosened up beyond my best [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > distinct patch in the middle of the back that is tight and creaks > when flexed... Just looked through my exercise list, there really wasn't anything there for the mid to upper spinal area. Massage or walk-on therapy might be the go. Just remembered, they did put me on the rack a few times, it helped, but you would have to repeat it quite regularly. Weird feeling being pulled apart. > Indeed it has. Very much appreciated. Can't respond in kind > since there was no return address... I have never given with the expectation of *having* to receive in return. (Unless it's some lip). :-) T.C. Feral I would *seriously* recommend it to _anybody_ who has a back problem. > Most of my back was quite stiff when I started, and over a period of > 18 months or so, much of the tightness freed up. After about 12 > months off, I seriously expect that it'll be a hard start back in, > but within months, the sciatica should be completely back under > control and I'll probably be able to get the little stiff patch > between the shoulder blades freed up. This thread is *depressing* - says really, "when/if I get to an age to retire I won't actually be able to do anything interesting with the spare time, like crawl under cars or ride the dirt bike :-(" There is something weird with the backs of 30 to 40 year olds (I'm 2 years and probably around 10.5 months older than Athol). Around 3 years ago I had a problem randomly over a short period where I could not stand up straight - very sharp painfull back pain. I have no idea what it was, but it went away has not happened since. A friend within 3 weeks of my age needed an operation 2 years ago to remove a disc that "randomly" broke apart - that would cause sciatica BTW. All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* more brave than I. Patrick Young <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in news:c6bcod$a3jrt$1 @ID-231644.news.uni-berlin.de: > I would *seriously* recommend it to _anybody_ who has a back problem. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to retire I won't actually be able to do anything interesting > with the spare time, like crawl under cars or ride the dirt bike :-(" I can, most days but I would not be able to ride the dirt bike :-) Ron > This thread is *depressing* - says really, "when/if I get to an age > to retire I won't actually be able to do anything interesting > with the spare time, like crawl under cars or ride the dirt bike :-(" Nope. As long as I get back into spending about an hour or two per week doing belly dancing classes, I don't expect to have that problem. > There is something weird with the backs of 30 to 40 year olds (I'm > 2 years and probably around 10.5 months older than Athol). Libran end of October 1969, if that helps. :-) > All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital > and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* > more brave than I. Most of the belly dancing classes in Sydney seem to be centred around the Newtown/Enmore area, which obviously wouldn't be very convenient for you. I could ask if there is anybody running classes North of the bridge if you'd like... SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >>athol wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Libran end of October 1969, if that helps. :-) Oops, typo :-) - 2 years and 11.5 months then :-) and by your calculation would also make me a Libran, only just by the last day. However I really behave like a Scorpio ;-) Don't ask me about what happened during that time - I can't remember anything before 1970. 1960's were supposed to be a cool time, however there was a legacy of *ugly* buildings and household furniture some folk need to answer (or be punished) for designing :-) 1980s probably the *coolest* decade for me (another friend who is 8 months older than me would agree even more *strongly* about the 1980s than I). > Most of the belly dancing classes in Sydney seem to be centred around > the Newtown/Enmore area, which obviously wouldn't be very convenient > for you. I could ask if there is anybody running classes North of > the bridge if you'd like... Ummmm, thanks anyway - I'll take a raincheck. No current back problems, (getting back on topic) I guess the *leaf* springs in the Hilux must work :-) >> Libran end of October 1969, if that helps. :-) > Oops, typo :-) - 2 years and 11.5 months then :-) and by your > calculation would also make me a Libran, only just by the last day. > However I really behave like a Scorpio ;-) You want to talk about typos... Near the end of the Libran part of October 1969... That changes it by about 3 weeks. :-) SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > You want to talk about typos... Me too, or more-so confusion amongst the clutter of discs. I have not got time (tape only). ;-) T.C. Feral >> You want to talk about typos... > Me too, or more-so confusion amongst the clutter of discs. > I have not got time (tape only). ;-) What about Secret Messages, Balance of Power and Zoom? :-p IIRC, a few years back, Discovery, Out of the Blue and Time were sold as a boxed set - I'm pretty sure that was the three. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. > What about Secret Messages, Balance of Power and Zoom? :-p You must remember, I was in an era when tapes were the go. It was also a pretty lean time, marriage, home, family. You know, where you are now. :-) It's only recently that I started delving into replacing them with CD's and I don't intend doing them all, just a few "special" ones. Time is special. > IIRC, a few years back, Discovery, Out of the Blue and Time > were sold as a boxed set - I'm pretty sure that was the three. I found Discovery. I'm pretty sure I have most of the others, no labels (lost?). ;-) Tell me, what one did they cover Chuck Berry's "Roll Over Beethoven" on. Might help me identify one of the two without labels. T.C. Feral Looks like being a music weekend. :-) > Tell me, what one did they cover Chuck Berry's "Roll Over > Beethoven" on. Might help me identify one of the two without > labels. That was on one of the really early ones. I have an ELO Gold CD that was a compilation of early stuff. It's on that. :-) Not exactly certain whether it even came out on an album originally. Too late for Queen of the Hours, but possibly too early for Showdown. I could ask my brother if it was on Showdown - he has that on vinyl. I've never seen Showdown on CD. SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. >>Tell me, what one did they cover Chuck Berry's "Roll Over >>Beethoven" on. Might help me identify one of the two without [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Showdown - he has that on vinyl. I've never seen Showdown on > CD. The latest one it was on was a pommy press in 1993 and it's been on 2 or 3 others, so says Google. Yup, I'm confused. Think I'll just listen to it over the weekend and see how many names I can come up with. Must get onto Flighty and set my sig up properly and update my filters, then I'll listen to music. Astalavista. Feral > All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital > and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* > more brave than I. Brave has nought to do with it, necessity is a fitting word. T.C. Feral >> All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital >> and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* >> more brave than I. >> >Brave has nought to do with it, necessity is a fitting word. No, no, epileptic is a fitting word. Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >>>All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital >>>and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No, no, epileptic is a fitting word. Maybe in your case, yes. :-P SignatureTake Care. Feral >>>>All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital >>>>and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >Maybe in your case, yes. :-P What would it take to convulse you that I'm not? Al I like my old clothes. I don't like manure ones. >>>>>All *WAY TOO MUCH* info. I've never been admitted to a hospital >>>>>and would probably *FREAK OUT* if I had to be. You folk are *far* [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What would it take to convulse you that I'm not? I will not enter into a spewrious contest whiff you. SignatureTake Care. Feral [snip] > Also a point will, in most cases, be reached where damage to >nerves could result unless verts were fused. If they can't >move, they can't severe or crush. Depends on the severity of >individual cases. Indeed. My GF broke her back and had 3 vertebra fused - this was before we met. Then she walked on a floor at work that was soaped, but no-one had bothered to put up a sign. After dancing a little jig with legs flying everywhere, she basically dropped straight from standing to directly on her arse. Put her in hospital for a good 3-4 months. They wanted to fuse a couple more vertabra, but that meant she would not have been able to bend at all below the ribs, and she declined. Just physio, and while she still cops some pain ocasionally, and some numbness, she's pretty much back to normal these days - that would have been probably 8-10 years ago. So I'd definately investigate the alternatives. Neil --- Neil Fisher / Bob Young Thundercords personal opinion unless otherwise noted. Looking for spark plug leads? Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au "Neil Fisher" <NeilFisher@magnecor.com.au.invalid> wrote in message > So I'd definately investigate the alternatives. Indeed. I actually had an appointment with the back specialist yesterday afternoon, and after examining the latest batch of scans it seems that fusing is now off the menu. According to him, the arthritis has come on very fast indeed, and is now not only around L5 but between L5 & L4, L4 & L3, and L3 & L2. He simply stated that fusing would be a waste of time as it looks like it won't be all that long before it fuses itself together naturally. I have one more facet injection planned for May 25, and after that it's pain management, drug addiction and ever decreasing mobility. Oh boy..... Regards, Noddy. > "Neil Fisher" <NeilFisher@magnecor.com.au.invalid> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Oh boy..... Remember what I said, keep that chin up. There's more than us headed that way. We may form a society. The "Put Us Back Into Shape" Society. :-) SignatureTake Care. Feral "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message news:c6l7td$d0e93$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > Remember what I said, keep that chin up. There's more than us > headed that way. We may form a society. The "Put Us Back Into > Shape" Society. :-) As I keep telling the wife: "I *am* in shape. Round is a shape" :) Regards, Noddy. > "feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message > news:c6l7td$d0e93$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > As I keep telling the wife: "I *am* in shape. Round is a shape" :) I'll give you one more day to think about it *mex*. ;-) Even then...................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz SignatureTake Care. Feral > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So I'd definately investigate the alternatives. Exactly Neil, horses for courses. You gotta love the spirited ones. ;-) SignatureTake Care. Feral [snip] >Exactly Neil, horses for courses. You gotta love the spirited >ones. ;-) Sure do - although I have to say the "old nag" wasn't terribly "spirited" there for a few weeks. ;-) I spent quite a few days convincing her that things would get better soon, blah blah - all the usual feel good stuff you do for people in that sort of condition - then almost collapsed in a blubbering mess when I walked out of the hospital. I know it was extremely difficult for her, but I don't think she really appreciates how difficult it was for someone who loves her to watch her go through that and not be able to do anything at all to help. Still, it's all worked out in the end, so I guess I was right after all. Whodathunkit, eh? ;-) Neil --- Neil Fisher / Bob Young Thundercords personal opinion unless otherwise noted. Looking for spark plug leads? Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au Whodathunkit, eh? ;-) Been there, done that. Woodenunoit. ;-) SignatureTake Care. Feral > Whodathunkit, eh? ;-) > >Been there, done that. Woodenunoit. ;-) I had one of those once, I think. ;-) Neil --- Neil Fisher / Bob Young Thundercords personal opinion unless otherwise noted. Looking for spark plug leads? Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au "John McKenzie" <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message <snipped a very informative post> > I can't guarantee it would help, but I'd fucken try witchcraft and > voodoo before I ever let anyone fuse my lower vertebrae. Thanks for that John, I'm going to look into that. I know a few people who've had fusing done, and it's been a 100% failure rate thus far. Most have enjoyed the relief it gave when it worked (after they endured the 12 weeks of standing up or being flat on their backs after the procedure), but all have since had it "let go" and are back to square one. To be honest, fusing wasn't my idea, and was only suggested to me by the surgeon last week when the facet injections weren't doing much. Personally, I'm loathe to have any more surgery. In the last 4 years I've had 5 operations on my hip and back, and each time I do it's weeks of being immobile. I have an excellent physio who's been working with me for some time now, and she's done more for me that anyone so far. I really can't recommend her highly enough, and she knows more about this stuff than any of these 500 an hour specialists Regards, Noddy. > I have an excellent physio who's been working with me for some time now, and > she's done more for me that anyone so far. I really can't recommend her > highly enough, and she knows more about this stuff than any of these 500 an > hour specialists Ask her if she can recommend a belly dancing teacher... :-) SignatureAthol <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000 I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss. "athol" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:c6aha7$9nhai$7@ID-215292.news.uni- > Ask her if she can recommend a belly dancing teacher... :-) I will :) Regards, Noddy. > > Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing > > didn't annoy me once. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T.C. Feral My "I" beam leaf sprung Landy wasn't good for the back. >>>Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing >>>didn't annoy me once. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > My "I" beam leaf sprung Landy wasn't good for the back. Together with poor seating and sh.t tyres? Was that also the short wheelbase? The shorter the track the more my back hurts. T.C. Feral > >>>Pretty comfortable though. I've got a f.cked lower back, and this thing > >>>didn't annoy me once. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > T.C. Feral It was like heaven when I installed a pair of Sigma bucket seats :-) > It was like heaven when I installed a pair of Sigma bucket seats :-) So there is a use for some parts of a Bitsumishy? :-) T.C. Feral > > It was like heaven when I installed a pair of Sigma bucket seats :-) > > > So there is a use for some parts of a Bitsumishy? :-) > > T.C. Feral You'd be surprised on how many Sigma wreck parts will fit Landrover & Range Rover when they share the same yard. fuse box, seats, seatbelts, I came close to a 2.6 Astron powered Landrover at one point, would've done it if I had known I could have used a separate transfer case from a MQ Patrol. -- Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/ Who needs lockers when you got secondaries. CL3500/4300-> GH2600/2700-> S2A2300/3000-> GJ1600/2000->RR3500/3900 ->GQ4200/4200 > You'd be surprised on how many Sigma wreck parts will fit Landrover & > Range Rover when they share the same yard. fuse box, seats, seatbelts, I > came close to a 2.6 Astron powered Landrover at one point, would've done it > if I had known I could have used a separate transfer case from a MQ Patrol. You keep playing around with these things and you'll ruin your back. :-) T.C. Feral > > You'd be surprised on how many Sigma wreck parts will fit Landrover & > > Range Rover when they share the same yard. fuse box, seats, seatbelts, I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > T.C. Feral That's why I got rid of them all for a Nissan (I'm not really sure what it looks like underneath, hardly ever needed to go under there) :-) >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message >news:c65ee3$86fem$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >My one criticism of the car would be that the steering wheel is too close to >the dash, and needs to be adjustable for short arses like me. Farkn, i always pictured you as 20 stone and 10 foot tall..and you're just a midget?? Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html "Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD@connexus.net.au> wrote in message > Farkn, i always pictured you as 20 stone and 10 foot tall..and you're > just a midget?? Yep. (sob)... Regards, Noddy. >"Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD@connexus.net.au> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >(sob)... Sorry Nod, I laughed at your (sob) :-0 Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message >news:c63n16$7kjc9$1@ID-156149.news.uni- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >It gave an honest account of itself, and performed better than some... Remarkable.. and I ran that through our fuel consumption program (at 90c litre) and worked out at approximately 60 mpg in the old scale. Al 2004 insult page awaits your contribution http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html >"feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message >news:c62jub$718c3$1@ID-156149.news.uni- > >> Mongrel, the drive did you *no* good. :-P > >No, I'm still an arsehole :) Why change now, when it's worked so well? ;-) Neil --- Neil Fisher / Bob Young Thundercords personal opinion unless otherwise noted. Looking for spark plug leads? Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au "Neil Fisher" <NeilFisher@magnecor.com.au.invalid> wrote in message > Why change now, when it's worked so well? ;-) Zactly :) Regards, Noddy. > "Tony Smith" <tony@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (Incidentlly, I'd also happy support policies that kept cars made by > Fiat, Citreon and Saab out of the country permanently :) Go wash your mouth out with soap. They would at least stand out against the ugly asian "all look the same" vehicles. >> Wanna make a bet that at least 2 of those manufacturers would want to >> set up manufacturing operations? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Especially in light of the cheaper Asian alternatives... You mean cheap Asian junk from Korea :-) >> Itsumbitchi would forget all about the "maybe we will, maybe we >> won't" if their highly protecrted and subsidised competition >> disappeared.....Their constant whinging and whining is part of an >> attempt to argue that they should be included as a "local" product... > > The Magna is as local as the Commodore, Falcon, Camry and Avalon. Yep, Australia's version of the "Edsel" :-) >> You might also like to recall that Nissan in Melbourne to this very >> day occupy what was the VW/Audi production facility, they pulled out [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Australians, but they also think the same way about everyone else > too.... Too true, but then they do resemble the boring and butt ugly products they make.. >> Imagine a Camry (for example and becuase I rather like it as a >> package) with similar trim and fitout levels to Lexus, with sports [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Nice. I can't see the difference. A Lexus IS a tarted up toyota. My neighbour has a Lexus thingy, ugly f.cker that looks identical to a Camry (I think, as I don't look to closely at these things), with leather and wood inside. >> Cars like that don't make it into Australia for two reasons. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > have to first release something the people will *want* to buy, and at > a price they'll want to pay. And make a comparable rear wheel drive "SOLID" car :-) > Mitsubishi and Toyota have largely been unsuccessful to that end thus > far, and they'll need to rely on their product to sell on it's > merrits, rather than a lack of cometition if the local industry > fails... I would have said, "Flood the market with their crap cars" :-) > Regards, > Noddy. Ron "Jagwire" <Newsguy> wrote in message > Go wash your mouth out with soap. They would at least stand out against > the ugly asian "all look the same" vehicles. C'mon Ron, old boy... You're not seriously suggesting that you'd *want* to own a SAAB, Fiat or Citreon are you? :) > You mean cheap Asian junk from Korea :-) Yeah that, and the fact that the cost of setting up and running a manufacturing plant somewhere in South East Asia is probably a tenth of the price of doing so here. > Yep, Australia's version of the "Edsel" :-) Well, it's been around a bit longer than the Edsel, but yeah, hardly a successful car. Still, it *is* made here, and it shares that with the other 3... > Too true, but then they do resemble the boring and butt ugly products > they make.. I certainly wouldn't say that's true of *everything* they do :) > I can't see the difference. A Lexus IS a tarted up toyota. My neighbour > has a Lexus thingy, ugly f.cker that looks identical to a Camry (I think, > as I don't look to closely at these things), with leather and wood > inside. Agreed. I think a Lexus is a tarted up Toyota, just like an LTD is a tarted up Falcon and a Statesman is a tarted up Commy. The point being that while the majority of buyers prefer the cheaper garden variety stuff, the manufacturers make a squillion bucks on the tarted up stuff because some customers wanna pay shitloads extra for some options. If you get rid of the garden variety models you'll loose the cheaper priced customer base, as they'll only go looking elsewhere, and the loss of those poverty pack sales will push the price of the tarties so high you'll more than likely loose those sales to Mercedes Benz & BMW as well. Regards, Noddy. >>A mate of mine has a Nissan Xtrail. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Buy a aussie car and keep our jobs in Australia Anybody name one *aussie* 4WD that keeps jobs and *profits* in Australia. :-) T.C. Feral |
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