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Car Forum / Australian Car Forums / General Car Topics (Australian group) / April 2004Fuel Pump in a VL
How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL ? Would a faulty lowpressure pump prevent the car from running or cause it to run poorly ? > How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL ? check current draw with a multimeter , or pull the interconnecting fuel line . that's check the fuse if its a separate fuse > Would a faulty lowpressure pump prevent the car from running or cause it to > run poorly ? yes. does the car have a surge tank ?. if so then that tank will not be filling and the h/p side will cavitate. not good for injection . I have a ford unit from an xf new if you need it , not right but its a lot cheaper. ford 97$ > holden double . ouch so you couldn't get to work yet ? "atec" > > How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL ? > check current draw with a multimeter , or pull the interconnecting fuel line . > that's check the fuse if its a separate fuse current draw is acceptable methinks. > > Would a faulty lowpressure pump prevent the car from running or cause it to > > run poorly ? >yes. so which ? Prevent from running or run poorly ? > does the car have a surge tank ?. if so then that tank will not be > filling and the h/p side will cavitate. not good for injection . I believe there is a surge tank setup (fuel system is factory NA) > I have a ford unit from an xf new if you need it , not right but its a > lot cheaper. ford 97$ holden double . ouch bosch part to suit VL is $70 from autopro > so you couldn't get to work yet ? The car runs. Poor idle and very poor running at < 2000rpm, but fires up and pulls nicely > 2000rpm. I have pretty much ruled out sensors and connectors, usual VL gremlins - so looking at fuel feed now. Used to be a "bad whiney sound" coming from the fuel tank - no sound there now (though the external pump is working) > "atec" > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >yes. > so which ? Prevent from running or run poorly ? either , sounds like you need to check low pressure side for actual activity , its a pain but you might need to remove the pump and check operation . remember it must be liquid cooled. > > does the car have a surge tank ?. if so then that tank will not be > > filling and the h/p side will cavitate. not good for injection . [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > bosch part to suit VL is $70 from autopro Really ?. last time I looked it was about 270 6 months ago.. > > so you couldn't get to work yet ? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Used to be a "bad whiney sound" coming from the fuel tank - no sound there > now (though the external pump is working) have you checked its not a vacuum problem ?. leave the fuel cap off and see how it runs ? > > "atec" > > > > How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL > > > check current draw with a multimeter , > > current draw is acceptable methinks. > > so which ? Prevent from running or run poorly ? > either , sounds like you need to check low pressure side for actual > activity , its a pain but you might need to remove the pump and check > operation . remember it must be liquid cooled. Thanks for the heads up on the liquid cooled - If I remove pump and bench test for 10seconds without immersing it ? > have you checked its not a vacuum problem ?. leave the fuel cap off and > see how it runs ? I haven't - but will be sure to do so. If it behaves differently with the cap off, what then ? > > > "atec" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks for the heads up on the liquid cooled - > If I remove pump and bench test for 10seconds without immersing it ? not sure . I know in the ford 10 seconds the pump would be warm , On the bmw k bike the fuel pump was sounding like it had a gut full of metal and the bike didn't run well. changed it to the ford unit and was quite and better , sort of like nails down a blackboard but immersed. > > have you checked its not a vacuum problem ?. leave the fuel cap off and > > see how it runs ? > > I haven't - but will be sure to do so. If it behaves differently with the > cap off, what then ? then you find the reason , or maybe make a tiny hole in the cap to let the tank breath as a last ditch try ? "atec" > > > I have a ford unit from an xf new if you need it , not right but its a > > > lot cheaper. ford 97$ holden double . ouch > > > > bosch part to suit VL is $70 from autopro > Really ?. last time I looked it was about 270 6 months ago.. The external pump is like $300+ , the internal much cheaper. > The car runs. Poor idle and very poor running at < 2000rpm, but fires up > and pulls nicely > 2000rpm. Had an identical problem with my Rover 3500.... problem was that the magnetic pickup in the distributor had drifted out to the point where at low revs there wasn't sufficient induction to induce a regular spark. Above 2000rpm though, the rotor gear was spinning fast enough to induce enough of a current and the car would work 100% as normal. May be way out of left field but if you are still struggling after you check the fuel pump it may be something to consider. TW <| TC |> did write on 24Apr2004 at 9:30:25 PM >> The car runs. Poor idle and very poor running at < 2000rpm, but fires up >> and pulls nicely > 2000rpm. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > TW Even more left field... Does VL get a separate cold start injector? If so it may be leaking and making the mix too rich for the engine to fire properly at low RPM. (Old Toyota puzzle solution)  SignatureToby quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt. By Order K.K. Thanks to the two left fielders - but no joy there. > <| TC |> did write on 24Apr2004 at 9:30:25 PM > >> The car runs. Poor idle and very poor running at < 2000rpm, but fires up [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > properly at low RPM. > (Old Toyota puzzle solution) | How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL ? | | Would a faulty lowpressure pump prevent the car from running or cause it to | run poorly ? Yes, it should deliver at least one litre in 30 seconds. See page 6C-46 in the 'VL Series - Service Manual Supplement Volume No. 2' for details on how to do the GMH low pressure pump volume test. You don't have to remove the pump, but you do have to depressurise the fuel system and bridge the fuel pump relay contacts while collecting the fuel, so it probably needs two people (and a fire extinguisher) to do it safely. Fancy that - I have the 'VL Series - Service Manual Supplement Volume No. 2' But I kept overlooking page 6C-46, and going straight to the section on removing the pump, without seeing the section on testing. Cheers > | How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL ? > | [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > system and bridge the fuel pump relay contacts while collecting the fuel, so it > probably needs two people (and a fire extinguisher) to do it safely. | Fancy that - I have the 'VL Series - Service Manual Supplement Volume No. 2' | But I kept overlooking page 6C-46, and going straight to the section on | removing the pump, without seeing the section on testing. | | Cheers Well now you know better.... Get your self together...your life will improve.... | > | How do I tell if the in-tank (low pressure) fuel pump is working on a VL | ? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] | so it | > probably needs two people (and a fire extinguisher) to do it safely. Id start by just double checking the vaccuum lines that goto the charcoal canister, and any other associated air leaks behind the maf sensor. test the crank angle sensor and maf (be sure your tps is ok!) make sure the computer isnt in diagnostic mode (as this will affect idle speed) when did you have a timing belt done? i presume its an RB30 in your VL, sometimes people advance the cam by one tooth to give more 'pull' or whatever. check the fuel pressure regulator and return line, and damper mounted near the external pump. dave "Dave.au" > Id start by just double checking the vaccuum lines that goto the charcoal > canister, and any other associated air leaks behind the maf sensor. check > test the crank angle sensor and maf (be sure your tps is ok!) swapped maf and cas - also tested tps > make sure the computer isnt in diagnostic mode (as this will affect idle > speed) check > when did you have a timing belt done? i presume its an RB30 in your VL, > sometimes people advance the cam by one tooth to give more 'pull' or > whatever. timing belt done 12months ago by me when the water pump went. Yeh, it's RB30 - and mostly stock, I just don't feel that any of the sik mods are worth the trade off, so the timing is stock, and there is no cold air intake or LED windrscreen washers. > check the fuel pressure regulator and return line, and damper mounted near > the external pump. pretty sure it's a fuel feed issue as all sensors check ok and eccs shows no error codes. Will be checking the pump today, fingers crossed - would rather fit a new pump than a regulator (far fewer bolts) The thing that I don't understand is why poor fuel feed leads to very rocky running on take off up to 2000rpm, but over 2000rpm it runs smoothly, if it's lacking fuel pressure, wouldn't behaviour deteriate as fuel need increases ? > dave Thanks for the solid reply dave. cheers Fletch > The thing that I don't understand is why poor fuel feed leads to very rocky > running on take off up to 2000rpm, but over 2000rpm it runs smoothly, if > it's lacking fuel pressure, wouldn't behaviour deteriate as fuel need > increases ? not if the pump is on the way out it will flow more freely with less restriction if that makes sense, tested this on a flow bench. the engine will then lean out a bit running better at speed probably with more power which is not good for it if it leans out too much the cylinder temp will get very hot and will cause an interesting situation. let me know how you go, i had the same problem with a vl i have here, and ended up changing the engine, worn bores and buggered head. "Dave.au" > > The thing that I don't understand is why poor fuel feed leads to very > rocky [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > more power which is not good for it if it leans out too much the cylinder > temp will get very hot and will cause an interesting situation. lol - interesting indeed. > let me know how you go, i had the same problem with a vl i have here, and > ended up changing the engine, worn bores and buggered head. the fuel pumps have been further tested, and are pumping to spec. Now I'm all outta ideas, and sick of the car playing up - but the best I can do if I want a half decent mechanic is an 8day wait ! Shoulda booked it in sooner, before I started playing around, but there ya go, When it's playing up, it appears to be more rich than lean (sooty moist exhaust) but the temp sensor is fine.... got me stuffed :( you still got my number ?. give ma a call on the mobile in the morning between 10 and 12 , lets see what can be done . > "Dave.au" > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > got me stuffed :( no, I can't find your number ... But aren't you a ford man ? I think the holden mght be a bit tricky for you especially as it's got a nissan init... I'm thinking air flow meter - and my spare is also stuffed I think... > you still got my number ?. give ma a call on the mobile in the morning > between 10 and 12 , lets see what can be done . [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > got me stuffed :( > no, I can't find your number ... > > But aren't you a ford man ? > I think the holden mght be a bit tricky for you > especially as it's got a nissan init... sorry , does it use petrol ?. does it have wheels . don't matter , have you tried disconnecting the flow meter ?. the manual should offer some help . > I'm thinking air flow meter - and my spare is also stuffed I think... > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > > > > got me stuffed :( "atec" > > no, I can't find your number ... > > > > But aren't you a ford man ? > > I think the holden mght be a bit tricky for you > > especially as it's got a nissan init... > sorry , does it use petrol ?. does it have wheels . don't matter , have > you tried disconnecting the flow meter ?. the manual should offer some > help . lol - smart al/tec ;-) I have been through the manual, and thrice through the engine - it's beyond my meager talent :( It doesn't give any error codes - made me look toward the fuel feed, but fuel pressure is apparently good. I have exchanged all sensors except the afm with working ones - why I'm going back to it, trying to source one I can experiment with... If I disconnect the afm, it makes no difference at idle, and the car dies at anything above idle (as is normal for this engine) you have my mobile in a mail . might try to take a look this weekend . if it suits. > "atec" > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > If I disconnect the afm, it makes no difference at idle, and the car dies at > anything above idle (as is normal for this engine) |
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