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Car Forum / Audi Cars / February 2006help with 2003 A4 engine replacement
I own a 2003 A4 with 52,280 miles. The engine recently lost oil pressure on a trip and suffered engine damage. Audi is refusing to pay for the damage and I am apealing this decision with Audi corporate. In the event they do not do the right thing, I am seeking a used replacement engine for the car and would like to determine which engine types can be used. My local supplier - who seems very good - pulled up the engine type from the vehicle VIN#. He said the engine type is an AMD. Unfortunately, he doesn't have an AMD but has an AWM type engine. Is there any information available to crossreference the replacement types? Any help would he greatly appreciated. Thanks. gcoz, Try the site www.car-part.com - they use the Hollander Interchange manual. You might also contact places like Shokan to ask them about engine interchange. What happened to cause the oil pressure to drop? Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply) >I own a 2003 A4 with 52,280 miles. The engine recently lost oil > pressure on a trip and suffered engine damage. Audi is refusing to pay [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Is there any information available to crossreference the replacement > types? Any help would he greatly appreciated. Thanks. Thanks Steve, the car-part site is pretty helpful as I found a more recent vintage engine for that body style. The particular engine in my car is prone to clogging due to oil sludge a well-known problem with this vintage engine. The service manager where the car was towed to described the problem as a result of a oil transfer tube that is too small for the engine. There is an extended drivetrain waranty on the vehicle but they are denying coverage claiming I missed a service interval. It's a longish story but I purchased the car from an Audi dealership at 14k miles and it was supposed to have been serviced at that point - but they claim not to have records of this. Anyhow, planning to cover it myself at this point. Thanks again. >I own a 2003 A4 with 52,280 miles. The engine recently lost oil > pressure on a trip and suffered engine damage. Audi is refusing to pay > for the damage and I am apealing this decision with Audi corporate. Just curious, what was the reason for oil pressure loss? Clogged up oil pump as a result of sludge, by any chance? Also, how much longer did you drive it from the moment the engine light started flashing on the dashboard? > In the event they do not do the right thing, I am seeking a used > replacement engine for the car and would like to determine which engine [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Is there any information available to crossreference the replacement > types? Any help would he greatly appreciated. Thanks. The AWM engine was used in 2001 A4 (B5 - the previous body style), so there is a slight possiblity that engine/tranny mounts may be different. The engine was also controlled by a different ECU, so again, you may run into some incompatibility issues there. If you haven't checked there yet, the crowd on www.AudiWorld.com might be able to tell you which engine types could be a goot fit for your model year. Good luck, Pete Thanks Pete. I was told by the Audi service manager that that engine type has a problem with clogging of a screen located in a L-shaped oil transfer tube. I am not sure he knew the exact problem in my vehicle but this information was from a vehicle he just repaired. He showed me the transfer tube/screen. Apparently, particulate generated in the turbo collects in the screen. I am not sure of the location of the transfer tube and am also puzzled why the oil filter does not remove the particulate. In any event, I was traveling through Pennsylvania at the time and my wife drove the car for about 20-30 miles before we determined there was a problem. I have been advised to replace the engine - not to repair the original. Thanks again for the info. Greg > Thanks Pete. I was told by the Audi service manager that that engine > type has a problem with clogging of a screen located in a L-shaped oil > transfer tube. I would have inside of the engine inspected for sludge to determine if that is what clogged up the screen. There is an extended (80K mile I believe) Audi sludge warranty on these engines, if you can provide the records that all maintenance (oil changes) was performed in a timely manner. Are you the original owner? Was the car serviced at an Audi dealer? > I was traveling through Pennsylvania at > the time and my wife drove the car for about 20-30 miles before we > determined there was a problem. Are you saying the light started flashing, and you kept driving for 20-30 miles? If so, this could fall under owner negligence as you are supposed to pull off immediately in such cases, as per owner's manual. If Audi finds out, they may deny coverage based on this. Of course, I'm just speculating here as I wasn't there. :) Pete Thanks Pete. My wife was driving at the time and I was sleeping - we were in the midst of an arguement as well. Just chalking it up to live and learn. :-) Anyhow, on the oil sludge thing - they are denying coverage based on a missed service interval. I purchased the car as a demo - certified pre-owned and it was supposed to have had been serviced at that point but the Audi dealer claims not to have records of it - that is the appeal I am making to Audi Corporate. Audi is not easy to deal with - I love the car but am not happy with Audi response. I am planning to fix the car and tweak the performance anyway but not sure if I will purchase another Audi. Greg > My wife was driving at the time and I was sleeping - we > were in the midst of an arguement as well. So... you fell asleep in the midst of a fight with your wife? LOL! :) Anyway, good luck with the repairs. AoA can be a pain to deal with sometimes. The key is to keep pestering them or even threaten with a lawyer. The issue with the sludge had to do with the fact that Audi dealers were using mineral oil instead of higher quality synthetic back then (2003) during the scheduled maintenance visits. So even if the oil was changed on time (once a year or every 10K miles per Audi), you could have ended up with the same problem. Pete Pete, Yeah - on a long road trip and argueing also - pretty stressful - like I said: live and learn. Fortunately, the holidays went pretty well after that. The point about the mineral oil is very interesting. I recall asking the service manager when I first brought the car in for maintenance about the synthetic oil and he said that Audi now specifies synthetic oil - didn't think to ask if the car originally had synthetic. Greg " I love the car but am not happy with Audi response. " wow.....seems to be a common expression being voiced here and other places. Maybe that will be remedied with the free service interval..... .....what? They cancelled that ????? Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ - quite happy driving older Audis and supporting internet parts suppliers 1980 Audi 5k - like I said... 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply) > Thanks Pete. My wife was driving at the time and I was sleeping - we > were in the midst of an arguement as well. Just chalking it up to live [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Greg > Maybe that will be remedied with the free service interval..... > .....what? They cancelled that ????? Are you serious? When did that happen? I must have dozed off... Pete Yep. Serious.: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060212/SUB/60212018/1120/20 06NADA&refsect=2006NADA (you might need to do some cutting & pasting) Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply) >> Maybe that will be remedied with the free service interval..... >> .....what? They cancelled that ????? > > Are you serious? When did that happen? I must have dozed off... > > Pete Sorry to welcome you to the club. See the TSB as to whether engine replacement is necessary. http://www.pookrat.com/uploads/pics/TSB.pdf Because the engine has valve tappets the oil light comes on at a higher pressure than on other engines. Mine came on when the pressure dropped below 20 psi on the highway (other cars might light up as low as 6 psi). However, if it is sludged but not yet damaged it will still require significant cost to desludge and then it still may not be perfect. How bad did it get. Did you just notice the oil light or did the pressure get so low that the tappets started making noise? Regardless, put the pressure on them. I've tired of writing about sludge (some rants below). My vehicle (still within the 4 yr 50k mi warranty period) is now considered neglected due to an oil change after driving 12400 miles (previous owner), so now THEY WON'T COVER ANYTHING even if it's as unrelated as the radio going bad. If you have questions about it let me know. --Art http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2005-August/104952.html http://www.audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2005-August/subject.html http://audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2005-October/106376.html http://audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2005-October/106386.html http://audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2006-January/108082.html http://audifans.com/pipermail/quattro/2006-January/108104.html > Thanks Pete. My wife was driving at the time and I was sleeping - we > were in the midst of an arguement as well. Just chalking it up to live [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Greg Art, Steve, Pete, Thanks a lot for the information you've provided. I'm wrung-out over haggling with Audi and want to get the car fixed to get past the headache. I found a performance shop specializing in Audi/VW and feel comfortable doing business with them. Initially they recommended replacment with a used low mileage engine but at the moment a reasonably priced, low-mileage engine is not available. He thinks the engine rebuild would be more cost effective. So I am arranging to transport the vehicle to their facility and may wait a while to see if an engine becomes available. In either case, I am thinking to add a performance exhaust and coil-over shocks while I am at it. Add the ECU upgrade and 18" wheels later. I'm rationalizing the upgrades to sooth the emotional trauma caused by Audi's poor service, Just have to be careful to have a straight face when I tell the wife that they were worn out and need replacing......:-) The exhaust and ECU upgrade seem to be the base set of upgrades - do you guys agree or should I upgrade any engine components while the engine is getting rebuilt? Greg Greg, A4 "upgrades" - hmm...you might check with the postings at Audiworld or even Motorgeek to see what people are doing there. I may be wrong, but if it's the same engine as is installed in a similar vintage TT, one of the differences between the 180 hp and 225 hp engines is a cast vs forged crank. If you can get your hands on a 225 TT crank, or bottom end, you'll be better off for chipping/bigger turbo/..../JATO unit strapped to roofracks.... As for selling tactics to the better half....I'm not one to ask. Mine has already decreed that the next car I get I have to live in. (Maybe I could get a DKW camper...) Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply) > Art, Steve, Pete, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Greg "gcoz" > The exhaust and ECU upgrade seem to be the base set of upgrades - do > you guys agree or should I upgrade any engine components while the > engine is getting rebuilt? Not engine-related per se, but you might also want to get a beefier aftermarket bypass valve (BPV). The stock one is not up to task to handle higher boost levels. I had a Forge DVR on my A4, but there are plenty others that work well also. Even the stock one from a TT might do the job apparently. Cheers, Pete The TT diverter valve is a good choice at about $50. the part number is 710N > "gcoz" > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Pete > Art, Steve, Pete, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Greg If you are rebuilding make sure you at least have the ventilation tubes around the engine that are marked in the TSB inspected and replaced if necessary. The problem with that is that as far as I know these parts are available only through the dealer and are expensive. For instance, in picture 17-A056 (I'm assuming you misheard your mechanic... your engine should be AMB?) the plastic pressure valve labeled #20 goes for more than $100 at my dealer. Definitely replace the bleeder valve (#6; 035103245G?; $17). Even though the TSB says to scrape the sludge off the head in place, I'm guessing it would be a whole lot better to have it removed and soaked in some solvent, carb cleaner? Can't help with upgrades. Mine's stock. --Art http://www.pookrat.com/uploads/pics/TSB.pdf |
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