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Car Forum / Audi Cars / June 2008oil consumption in new 2007 A4 2.0T Quatro
I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. Dealer says no. I have 92 Lincoln Mark with 130,000 miles that uses 1/2 quart between service.3-4K miles A 2202 Ford Sport Trac with 110,000 miles that uses even less. And a 1 Ton van worked like a dog that only uses a quart between changes at 5,000 miles. My brand new Audi with superior German engineering drinks the stuff comparably. Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? Regards, MrShade aka Roscoe Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have. > I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it > the more people assume you have. I put 12,000 miles on my 2007 2.0TQ and never had any issue. Granted, I never really checked my oil myself but I for sure never had any issues with being low on oil. Presumably if something is out of whack with your turbo, you'd burn more oil. >I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. Dealer is right. It's possible your consumption could improve after 10000 miles but probably not much. There has always been considerable variability in Audi oil consumption but I doubt you'd ever see the low consumption you see in your other cars. Of course, if and when your "external lubrication system" kicks in, you'll consume even more! > I have 92 Lincoln Mark with 130,000 miles that uses 1/2 quart between > service.3-4K miles [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it > the more people assume you have. >I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it > the more people assume you have. normal for a new Audi.............while things bed in. mine did when new and now does not. dj 70k A4 2.4 SE Audi A6 3.2 FSI 37K miles 2005 on variable service. Mine had a service last week at Audi Poole in the UK and did pose this question. I was told that due to the extended length between services for the new engines the oil type goes through the engine quicker. So more spend on oil but lower servicing costs - I guess. Mickx On 9/5/07 00:40, in article ng2243dbjvajb6qo61lc9kkineo7vd8qo6@4ax.com, > I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it > the more people assume you have. > I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > MrShade aka Roscoe My 2007 A3 3.2 didn't use any noticeable amount of oil before its free 5K change. I don't have a turbo, though. 1 quart per 1500 miles sounds like an engine defect to me. Not only could accidentally run out of oil, but there's going to be a lot of ash running through your exhaust system. Hopefully you live in one of those areas where the warranty is very long on emissions equipment. >> I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. >> Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >system. Hopefully you live in one of those areas where the warranty is >very long on emissions equipment. I didn't have to check it, an OIL CAN lookng graphic appeared on my display. I called the dealer just today as they made no mention of my concern on my service invoice even though we talked at length about it. Service advisor told me Audi says that is OK and his hands are tied. I have a NEW car that I am hauling a quart of oil around in the trunk in case the darn thing pops up again. Very sad. Other than that I like the car very much. Black sooty tailpipes I do not like, nor do like the power that is passing by the compression rings along with the oil. I have to wonder whether 00-40W oil has anything to do with it. Dealer said anything else voids warranty. Sigh............. Roscoe aka MrShade Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have. > I have to wonder whether 00-40W oil has anything to do with it. Dealer > said anything else voids warranty. Dealer is BS'ing you. I'm sure there are specific oil requirements listed in your owner's manual, such as that the oil has to meet the VW 502.00 or 503.01 spec, but there are other oils, not just 0w-40 that meet these specs. That said, I don't think that using 0w-40 per se is responsible for your oil consumption. Pete Hi Roscoe >I have a NEW car that I am hauling a quart of oil around in the trunk >in case the darn thing pops up again. When I bought my new A4 2.0 TDI with PD-engine, the dealer said I'll have to add +/- 3/4 l off oil when the odo meter reach about 10 000 km and again about 20 000 km. And indeed. On 9 800 km and 18 000 km I saw the green oilcan pictogram popping up on my display. After a refresh of oil (About 28 000 km) the dealer said oliconsumption will now lower and *maybe* I have to add 3/4 l oil after 15 000 km drive. Indeed, again dealer has right! After +/- 16 000 km I had to add +/- 1/2 l of oil. (Did not waited until oilcan popped up. Just checking oil level and have added a bit.) Now, the engine has had his second oilchange and dealer said oilconsumption should be normal now i.g. maybe you have to add 3/4 l oil after 20 000 km. >I have to wonder whether 00-40W oil has anything to do with it. Dealer >said anything else voids warranty. I'm using 0W30 longlive oil. >Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? Take a look at the manual. I don't know what the one for a new car like yours says, but mine ('02 3.0 litre A4) includes a specific warning to the effect that these cars can use a lot. Mine's not too bad at about 0.5 litre/3000 miles, but my brother-in-law has a similar car (an '02 2.8 litre Passat, which is mechanically the same as an A4), and his uses a good deal more. These cars are known to get through a lot of oil. Peter. >>Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Peter. I've owned an 86 Quantum (Audi running gear), 1990 Audi 200T, 1994 S4, 2000 A6 4.2, and now a 2003 RS6. None of these automobiles burned oil. Any engine is going to use oil to some degree. However, of all the Audis I have owned, I seldom had to add oil between changes. And, yes, some are still "alive". The 1990 is fine and living in NH, the S4 was totalled by my grandson with 130K on it, the A6 4.2 is being driven by my son-in-law and now has 100+k on it and still doesn't use much oil. My other grandson has a 2000 S4 (chipped) and he says he doesn't use much oil either. So..... Dave >>>Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? Well, First, thanks for all the replies and info from everyone. I again talked with my dealer and raised the bar a little by saying I was in the process of contacting the regional Audi office to voice my complaints and I'll keep banging on their ears until I got some form of satisfaction. There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. That's a fact. This time I was told I could use other oil as long as it did meet the VW 502 spec someone else had mentioned but most likely would not improve the consumtion issue. That, I believe. I also was told it would improve as the rings seated and "broke in". What crap. I stopped building and racing Super/Comp and Super/Gas cars about 10 years ago with some having 13..5:1 compression 900 HP and no long break-in periods on those type of motors to seat oil and compression rings. After some seasons with 100+ full out passes, they still didn't use any discernable oil unless a catastrophic failure occurred. Enough said, Roscoe aka MrShade Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have. I don't know how many miles on the clock; if you have less than 5K, then I suspect it will improve in the next 3K miles. If it doesn't, I would try 5-30 or 5-40 Mobil. I really think most of the loss happens when the engine is still cold and the oil is near the 0 side of viscosity. Hang in there, this may end up O.K. >>>>Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it > the more people assume you have. > There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. FWIW, I have a 2002 A4 with the 3.0 V6. Now at 95,000 miles; oil changed every 5,000 miles. I have never had to add oil between changes, not even when it was new. Prior to that, I had a 1995 Passat with the VR6 engine. I had 135,000 miles on that when I sold it, and never once had to add oil to that either. Steve >> There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. > >FWIW, I have a 2002 A4 with the 3.0 V6. Now at 95,000 miles; oil changed >every 5,000 miles. I have never had to add oil between changes, not even >when it was new. I also have a 2002 A4 with the 3.0 V6. My experience is a long way from yours: I carry a bottle of oil around with me, and expect to see the warning light two or three times between services. (The dipstick is so difficult to read as to be useless.) And, as I've already mentioned, my brother-in-law's experience is worse. Clearly, there's no consistency here. For no obvious reason, some of these cars use a lot of oil, whilst others don't. Peter. Hi Peter >I also have a 2002 A4 with the 3.0 V6. My experience is a long way >from yours: I carry a bottle of oil around with me, and expect to see [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >no consistency here. For no obvious reason, some of these cars use a >lot of oil, whilst others don't. I've talked about that whith the dealer when I've bought my new A4. I also read many issues about oilconsumption. He said it's *most of the time* due to a bad brake in periode or due to some people who has changes DIY *much to early* the oil or drive their car to "soft" when braking it in. I.g. they have never used the real power. ;-) > Hi Peter > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > car to "soft" when braking it in. I.g. they have never used the real > power. ;-) Your dealer is 100% correct. After warming the engine reasonably gently these engines need to be driven under load to bed in. They do not appreciate some engine do-gooder changing the oil at 1000 miles either. A glazed engine will never perform or last as long as an engine that has a proper start in life. If it uses oil at 15,000 miles then it will likely continue to be a lazy drinkaholic until it is scrapped. Huw >There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. >That's a fact. It's not unreasonable to have to add some oil to a new engine as things loosen up and bed in though. >I also was told it would improve as the rings seated and "broke in". > >What crap. Quite. There will be no honing pattern left on the cylinder walls. Indeed, they'll probably be glazed now so I don't see how the rings can dramatically improve (if that's where the oil is coming from). >I stopped building and racing Super/Comp and Super/Gas cars >about 10 years ago with some having 13..5:1 compression 900 HP and no >long break-in periods on those type of motors to seat oil and >compression rings. After some seasons with 100+ full out passes, they >still didn't use any discernable oil unless a catastrophic failure >occurred. There's a school of thought that says that the best way to run in piston rings is to drive the engine hard for the first 20 miles of its life. This loads up the rings, pushes them properly out into contact with the honing pattern on the cylinder walls and wears both into a nice tightly matched pair before the honing pattern is worn off and the cylinder walls become glazed. The theory is supposedly proven on the racetrack where chronic bad oil consumption is rare and gentle running in is rarer! Other than a specific fault, engines that burn large amounts of oil tend to have been built with poor tolerances - this is not unheard of with European engines. The usual ways for an end user to damage an engine are the simple traditional ones of overheating them, running low on oil or not changing the oil or using completely the wrong fuel. However, it's not uncommon to find that a new engine that uses huge amounts of oil is also run low (to the point of slight damage) by an unsuspecting user. From that point on, oil consumption is often high.  SignatureZ >>There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. >>That's a fact. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > amounts of oil is also run low (to the point of slight damage) by an > unsuspecting user. From that point on, oil consumption is often high. Apart from very high performance engines built slack, like the BMW 'M' series, European engines are built to very fine tolerances out of very high quality metal. This is the reason they need to be run-in under load and the fine consistent finish to all parts is partly why most VW petrol engines can have to 20,000 mile oil change intervals while some of the diesels are good for up to 30,000 mile oil changes. Huw >>>>Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > There is no way I am adding oil to a new car between oil changes. > That's a fact. Then don't and face the consequences ;-) > This time I was told I could use other oil as long as it did meet the > VW 502 spec someone else had mentioned but most likely would not [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Enough said, They were driven hard. Is your Audi driven hard? Huw >>>>Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? > >Well, > >First, thanks for all the replies and info from everyone. Again, thanks for the replies and advice from all. An update but first I have to say I would guess only when my Wife got her hands on the A4 did it get "overly gentle" treatment and that was seldom as she like her SUV as she's a short lil' squirt and likes to sit up high to see the road. Anyway, the A4 used a quart at 1800 miles. I added another 3/4 quart at about 3400 to bring it to full not waitng for the light this time. During the break-in I varied the speed I drove it and didn't redline it but consistantly brought it up to 5k on the tach before shifting and also let lower gears slow it down as the dealer and tech had advised. I did not do a home oil change and waited for the first dealer recommended one at 5000. It has 7300 now and I did drive it more agressively after the oil change by the dealer and they told me when it hit 8K it would also perform better. We will see about that claim. The good part is that the oil consumption has vastly improved and has used about 1/2 quart since dealer service 2400 miles ago. I am going to look tomorrow after sitting overnight and I will post that here as I have not checked for a week and drove it pretty hard last weekend. Here is hoping it is in same place on the stick (or very close) as a week ago. Thanks again, RP Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have. >I say 1 quart in 1500 miles in new machine is a bit much. > Dealer says no. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Anyone else with Audi oil consumption issues? Drive it reasonably hard otherwise the bores will glaze. This is an issue with every brand of quality engine which have very hard bore finish and very hard piston rings. These engines should be run-in under load and the first oil should not be changed sooner than 5000 miles. Huw >Drive it reasonably hard otherwise the bores will glaze. This is an issue >with every brand of quality engine which have very hard bore finish and very >hard piston rings. These engines should be run-in under load and the first >oil should not be changed sooner than 5000 miles. > >Huw It has vastly improved and yes I did drive fairly hard but no redline shifts. 5K on the tach or a little more as that is what tech at dealer told me was a safe point. I asked the salesman to point me at a tech that was really bright and had some good knowledge he'd part with beforehand. I do understand the hard bore and ring issue but little can on dash at such low miles is something to make you nervous. And of course I would add oil when needed albeit not happily if it kept up at it's original thirsty rate. 7400 miles now and is getting much better than before. Regards, RP Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have. >7400 miles now and is getting much better than before. Thanks for the feedback. So many times I've read complaints about a car, particularly when it's a new one, only to be followed by deafening silence after someone has pitched in with reasoned advice. It's nice to hear the outcome, especially when it's good news. :) SignatureDave N N.B. Mail to nospam is rejected. Reply-To does work. >>7400 miles now and is getting much better than before. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's nice to hear the outcome, especially when it's good news. :) I'll second that. Thanks for the feedback. It is difficult to run an engine under load if used mainly on flat freeflowing roads. I don't have that problem as I live in a very undulating area with mainly small twisty roads with a reasonable amount of traffic. I am not afraid to drive a new quality car [or truck or tractor or any other quality engine] reasonably hard. It is likely that your engine will continue to improve in performance [albeit subtly] and reduce its consumption of oil if you continue or increasingly give it some hard work. Once it stabilises it will probably last for a few hundred thousand miles before noticeable wear. I have a friend who exceeded 200,000 miles in his Allroad with oil changes every 20,000 hard miles in just over three years. Engine was a peach and didn't use a drop of oil when he sold it because he was tired driving the same car and was in need of a change. I wouldn't run a 20000 mile schedule personally and can see why people brainwashed to accept 3000 miles as normal throw up their hands in horror. I hit a psychological barrier at 15,000 miles for no good reason. I know why VW/Audi have that first 5000 mile service in the USA and it is not because it is needed for the engine. Mine has done 10,000 already and it consumes none of its original oil fill and has never been topped up. Treated with the same driving style I have never had an engine that consumed any oil except an old Land Rover which was a model noted for using oil anyhow. Up until the very last year that one used about a quart between 5000 mile oil changes. It finally wore out after 24 years this January. I hope that my new Audi [and yours] gives such sterling service. Maybe the oil will have almost run out by then and we will be driving Flintstone style. Huw >It is likely that your engine will continue to improve in performance >[albeit subtly] and reduce its consumption of oil if you continue or [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >already and it consumes none of its original oil fill and has never been >topped up. I agree entirely with your view and the advice that you gave, but I fear that you will find yourself at the receiving end of a lot of flaming. It just so happens that my own experience reflects that of Roscoe; an initial high use of oil which dropped off dramatically as the miles increased, and since about 12000 miles it has been negligible. Reading this group and other forums has made me realise that oil changing intervals have become almost a matter of religious creed for many people, especially for many in the USA for some non-obvious reason. I am not an automobile engineer or a materials scientist so my starting point has to be to what the manufacturer recommends. If I am to deviate significantly from their published recommendations (servicing handbook), then it should be for reasons based upon evidence of bad advice from the manufacturer, not hearsay. >Maybe the oil will have almost run out by then and we will be driving >Flintstone style. You really do like flirting with danger, don't you? :) SignatureDave N N.B. Mail to nospam is rejected. Reply-To does work. As an ASC, I feel compelled to let you in on a little secret. Here's the issue: (Just don't tell anyone I told you ;) The late generation 2006 to current models of the 2.0T A3's and A4' have lately been coming back with -excessive oil consumption issues-. know what you're talking about. The common cause for this problem is the Intake Flap Runner being stuc open, which causes oil to leak in and burn off. This is not bad for th enigne, however your -oil level- will decrease dramatically. Audi ha sent out Technical Bulletins regarding this problem. The solution is t replace this part under Warranty if the problem occurs. HOWEVER, this i not a _\"Recall\"_ or _\"Campaign_Action\"_ as we call it. It's merely solution to a minor ongoing problem with certain cars. The proble hasn't come up enough for Audi to consider this a Recall. (Like th spoiler addition for downforce on the 1st generation TT's. -That- was recall.) That being said, Audi is working on a solution to thi problem. If the problem persists, the next step is to perform an -"Oi consumption Test"-. If your oil light comes on, DO NOT add oil. Go t your dealer and tell them abouthe problem. If your Flap Runner wa already replaced, they'll do one of these tests. It's a -two part- test The second part occurs in approx 1,000km after you went in the firs time with the complaint. Basiaclly, results are compaired from bot tests (before & after) and if any acton is needed further from the test your Dealer will take the appropriate action.[Result may vary wit driving habits and vehilce condition, including tuned vehicles.] Anyway I hope this sheds some light on your problem, and rest assure Audi is working on it for you! P.S. Audi's "Oil Min" warning and Dip Sticks are constructed and se for an EARLY NOTIFICATION. Meaning, you've got lots of time before i causes damage to your engine. (UNLESS your oil pan is pissing and you'r bone dry, but you'd be able to tell if that was the case now wouldn' you?) Anyway, If your oil light comes on, you still got about 4 - 4. litres of oil in your car. If your dip stick is at the MIN you got abou 3.5 - 4.0 litres of oil in your car. Don't be afraid. But see you Dealer right way -- A6S6RS |
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